Trainers? Please educate the newbie...

by Jimbo... on Nov 18, 2007 7:51 PM EST

I'm thinking about buying myself a trainer so I can combine my new favorite pastime... riding my bike... with my old favorite pastime... watching TV by myself after a long day of work once my entire family has gone to bed. Now in a perfect world, I would just get out and ride all winter since where I live in Northern California, weather is rarely an issue, but with work, the commute, not to mention the parenting thing, every available daylight hour (and then some) is booked. Two hours on a weekend is about all I can weasel out. So a trainer in front of the Tivo would seem to be my best option if I want to ride more than just two hours a week. Looking around quickly at the options on the market, I see models with fans, with magnets, with fluid, and even a few with gels or powder inside? Some have remote control cable thingies, or wireless remotes with computers, or even virtual racing programs which let you ride the Giro in your basement. Such enhancements may be wonderful and totally worth it if you have a large pot of money handy... I do not have such a pot... And prices are all over the map from $100 to over a $1000. So my question to you all is "HELP!" What do you guys use? Which features are crucial and which are crap? Which brands are the good ones and which are to be avoided? And what about those roller things? Are they actually good for anything, or are they just for showing off and/or injuring myself? Any and all advice/opinion would be much appreciated.

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in a perfect world

American classic would still make their 6 x 1.25" diameter rollers: more resistance than even Cancellara could really stand AND all the balance benefits of riding rollers. In fact, there's so much resistance it's like riding into a constant 15 mph headwind--in the small chainring. And the resistance increases the bigger the gear you choose.

Alas, Am Classic no longer even makes the version with only the front wheel in the inch-and-a-quarter rollers of doom anymore.

Still, I'd suggest that a set of Kreitler dyno-mites with the smallest drums you could find would be your best indoor riding purchase.

by R Mc on Nov 18, 2007 8:23 PM EST 0 recs

Some criteria

It needs to be quiet and have low vibrations (e.g., fluid a must) plus a nice solid stand (assuming it's not for travel). Otherwise you won't be able to watch TV and everyone within 50 meters will hate the thing. I'm all for max functionality and have a Computrainer as a result... but you should consider whether you just want to sweat (3 settings will do) or plan complex workouts.

Look on the Performance website, they have the basics pretty cheap.

by Chris... on Nov 19, 2007 12:08 AM EST 0 recs

Best bang for the buck

Is the Tacx Flow Trainer - quiet, smooth, measures your output in wattage for best feedback and most efficient use of your training time. It also measures cadence, HR, speed, etc, but those are all secondary to the watt function. It's $400 which sounds steep, but it's really a one time outlay. I've been riding mine pretty much year round for 3 years and have yet to have a problem with it.

Take a look - Flow

You can purchase it online from a number of different places (Excel Sports, etc).

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 19, 2007 9:43 AM EST 0 recs

Seconded

The power readout is worth the money. It alleviates the boredom factor. You can do more interesting workouts.

Also, it turns your trainer into a power testing setup--which is a good off-season thing to have.

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 19, 2007 10:10 AM EST up 0 recs

Exactly

And best of all it tells you when you're tired, saving you from riding yourself into the ground for no benefit. If your wattage drops more than 10% from one interval to the next, hang it up for the day and recover. I've used this to my benefit on more than one occasion.

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 19, 2007 10:49 AM EST 0 recs

Thanks

I will look into the Tacx. $400 is a little past what I was looking to spend, but if the computer features are worth it, then so be it. I will just quit my gym membership, that I barely use, and that will cover the difference pretty quickly. And thanks R Mc for the info on rollers. I think a set of those are going on my x-mas list.

by Jimbo... on Nov 19, 2007 4:12 PM EST 0 recs

Here it is

on sale at WCP:

http://www.worldcycling.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TAXFLOW&Affiliate=EMAIL

by Chris... on Nov 21, 2007 10:56 AM EST up 0 recs

I wouldn't call

$544 on sale.

I found it for less than $425 in two spots (see below).

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 21, 2007 11:04 AM EST up 0 recs

Hey

don't shoot the messenger

by Chris... on Nov 21, 2007 4:25 PM EST up 0 recs

Ok, ok

Can I just shoot you instead?

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 22, 2007 5:16 AM EST up 0 recs

I will be getting a Tacx (eventually),

but currently I use a bare-bones Performance Travel Trac, which is a magnetic trainer with an adustable flywheel (at the base, not on the handlebars). 5 years and it still works fine. Not super quiet, so the TV may be a bit loud in the basement, but it does the job. It also folds up easily which I find handy at races to warm up with. With my HRM and cadence sensor, I can simulate a pretty good workout (based on the plan Drew laid out for me. Not to embarass him, but Drew really know's his shit about training).
Tip, pick up a cheapie rear internal cam skewer like an Ultegra or Centaur. No need trashing your $80 set of Record or Salsa skewers. Some of the nicer models don't eat your skewers, but I can't say that about the $109 Performance model I have.

Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Nov 19, 2007 10:58 PM EST 0 recs

Fluid = low noise

Since you have never ridden on a trainer before during the winter, my advice is to keep the spending on the low end and get something quiet. You should be able to get a quality fluid model for around $300. Maybe after 1 winter you will know what you want/need, but the #1 problem with trainers or rollers is the boredom factor and depending on your experience, you might not get your money's worth out of the high-end (buy a cyclocross bike instead).

I hate it. I can't last more than 1.5 hours on a trainer. Some of my teammates can do 3-4 hours and I don't know how (Chicago winters). Step off and stretch every hour I guess. Your brain may be enjoying the movie or the race video, but your body is not enjoying what you are asking it to do and you force yourself to exist in this state of conflict all night long. Then again maybe you will love it.

Trainers vs. rollers: the standard wisdom is that rollers force you to learn balance, smoothness and stillness. Trainers, having some real resistance, allow workouts of varying intensity, jumps, sprints and some power feedback - depending on the sophistication of the technology you buy.

That being said, I myself have the KurtKinetic Road Machine fluid trainer and it works acceptably well. Definitely sturdy, solid and heavy, which is great for all those hours at home in the winter. But if you need to haul it from your car any distance to warm up before a crit, you will wish it wasn't so sturdy, solid and heavy. Comes with a cheap skewer which fits the trainer axle nicely.

I have also heard cautions about putting a nice bike through too many hours on the trainer. The stress of your body moving on a stationary bike causes way more flex than when it is rolling and you can also wear a groove in your headset.

Good luck.

Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me. -- Tim Krabbé, "The Rider"

by driss on Nov 19, 2007 11:55 PM EST 0 recs

trainer hate

I hate riding the trainer. I try to minimize the time I spend on the thing. When we have enough snow, I go x-country skiing. I ride the trainer a couple of times a week for less than an hour each time at max effort. I don't know how people ride the trainer for more than an hour.

Last season, the snow was good and I was out 5-8 hours a week through the worst weather of the year (in northeast ohio's snow belt). I think my aerobic conditioning was better in spring than it ever had been.

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 20, 2007 8:53 AM EST up 0 recs

about rollers . . .

The standard wisdom about rollers applies to standard rollers with 3 4-6" drums. At that size, the rollers provide minimal resistance, and once you get the hang of balancing on 'em, you can spin out your 53*11 to your heart's content. Pretty cool.

But shrink the diameter of the drums and the resistance level increases--and it increases with speed, too. Increasing the number of drums also increases the resistance.

Personally, I can't stand trainers. I've tried just about all of 'em, and the pedal feel and the lack of balancing annoy me.

That's why I swear by (and sometimes at) my 20+ year-old American Classic rollers: there's enough of a kinetic challenge riding them that I don't really need something to stare at and an interval set on them is a killer workout, and in all that time I've had to replace the belt--twice. And the last benefit? Knowing what they're like means that it has to be really nasty out before I'll use them.

by R Mc on Nov 20, 2007 8:54 AM EST up 0 recs

Ah, boredom

Considering the boredom factor, I've done long runs on a treadmill that lasted over 2 hours. That was mind numbingly boring, but I don't expect my sessions will last more than an hour. I can put up with anything for an hour. I'm doing this for fitness, not for race training but the idea of having the computer to focus my workouts is appealing. Noise will be an issue for me so a quiet fluid model is a must... otherwise I will get banished to my unheated garage... and I don't really need the trainer to be portable. I don't race. Looking at the Performance and REI web sites, the cheapest fluid trainers are still all in the $250 to $350 range, and those all seem to be the non-adjustable types without computers. The Tacx seems to be the best one I can find but the price is more like $450. From a "getting my money's worth" perspective, if I use the thing a few times per week and it lasts me a few years, that will more than pay for itself. I'm currently paying $60 per month in gym membership and I can reallocate that towards a trainer, and still have enough left over to buy a nice set of rollers. And if I don't use the Tacx, I can always sell it to Van P...

by Jimbo... on Nov 20, 2007 5:14 PM EST 0 recs

$460 and that's my final offer..

no wait, I'll go $475...
No wonder I get such favorable feedback as a buyer on ebay.

Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Nov 20, 2007 10:23 PM EST up 0 recs

Check out

Excelsports.com for Tacx Flow Trainer. I think I saw it for $424, and sometimes they'll discount by 5% if they're backed up in stock.

Given a well laid out training program it's easy to do 90 minutes on the trainer, especially if you've got a tv and cycling videos playing in front of you.

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 20, 2007 6:20 PM EST 0 recs

just got spammed

by WCP, and they happen to be having a trainer sale.

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 20, 2007 8:19 PM EST up 0 recs

Thanks but...

their sale price is $544.95. Is that where Van P works?

by Jimbo... on Nov 20, 2007 11:36 PM EST up 0 recs

Eureka!

$429

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 21, 2007 6:44 AM EST 0 recs

One better

$419

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 21, 2007 6:45 AM EST 0 recs

Sweet!

Thanks for the research. I just bought one. And thanks again to everyone else for your help and advice...

by Jimbo... on Nov 25, 2007 4:31 PM EST up 0 recs

Tacx Sirius

http://www.tacx.com/producten.php?language=EN&lvlMain=16&lvlSub=57&lvlSubSub=83&ttop =Sirius

I got this at the beginning of last winter and have been really happy with it. I've seen it listed for ~$350 CND (what...aboot $500USD hahahahahahah...sorry). It's been fairly quite, even on hardwood floors (ie none of my neighbors have complained). It doesn't have any of the fancy readouts, but it does have 10 resistance settings adjustable from the handlebars. Combined with the heart rate and cadence on my existing cyclocomputer I've been able to do some fairly decent workouts.

But by far my favorite accessory has to be the 25' extension for my headphones. This allows me to listen to what ever I have on at decent volumes without having to compete with the sound of the trainer and bike.

by Hons on Nov 21, 2007 9:20 PM EST 0 recs