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Mountain Bike

I think I'll give myself a mountain bike this christmas.

For years it was pointless to own one in my area--trail access was really limited. I haven't owned one for a looong time, and know nothing about the latest and greatest components.

I thought I'd tap the vast knowledge of PdC contributors to get oriented.

Am I better off building or buying?
What brands currently rule? My LBS stocks Felt.
What are must-have features--disc brakes? full suspension?

0 recs  |  Comment 30 comments

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First off
Are you looking for hardtail or dual suspension?
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 30, 2007 11:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Probably hardtail
What are the merits/problems with a dual setup? It seems more complicated and expensive.

If the dual isn't overwhelmingly better, I'd probably go with the hard-tail.

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 30, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

depends
Basically,  it depends on where you live.  If you live somewhere with nice dirty trails, you will be totally happy hardtailin' it up.  If you live somewhere with bike eating monster boulders and the like, you might want to have a little boing-boing.  Full sus is more forgiving when it comes to descending - you can roll over things that would send you flying on a hard tail - and it will tend to track a little better climbing.

You can get more bike for less money if you stick with the hardtail world.  A light full sus is going to be spendy, and if you are mostly a roady, a heavy full sus is probably going to bug you.

Just say yes to disc brakes.  Mo' stopping power.  Also, they modulate more easylike, which is nicer on the hands.

by gavia on Nov 30, 2007 12:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oops, meant to say
You can probably do fine just buying something off the rack.  

Santa Cruz, Kona, Specialized.  Heh, most of the biggies make decent rides.

Does Felt make a mountain bike?  I haven't seen any around.  Maybe I need to get out more :-)

by gavia on Nov 30, 2007 12:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

wow
I did not know that mountain biking was the secret passion of the PdC community. Does anyone follow the pro mountain bike scene? Do they still have one? Pro mountain biking was a big deal back in the day.

I live in northeast Ohio. A billion years ago, it was a sea bed, then was glaciated, so we have rolling hills (really a plateau with numerous river valleys). The trails are typically rolling, sometimes wall steep, with gnarly roots, random boulders, and some giant sandstone formations.

I guess with the full suspension, I could do crazy stuff like jumping my bike--like I used to do on my Schwinn when I was 10.

Sounds like the discs are a must-have.

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 30, 2007 8:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True confessions?
I raced XC before I ever owned a road bike.  Shhh, don't tell.  I never smoked pot, though ;-)

Full sus would be nice for the rooty bits, especially if you aren't planning to make this your life work, and if you have some cash to play with.  It's not super easy to learn to climb a hardtail over roots and rocks.  Definitely doable, but not easy.  It depends a little on how much of a challenge you're looking for.  It's worth thinking about what the peeps you might be riding with are riding too.  If everyone's on boing-boing and you're not, it might be a little less fun.

Yes, there is a pro mountain bike scene.  I follow it some.  It's a fun party if you can be there, but it's not as compelling as road racing otherwise.  There aren't the tactical hijinx and wacky stories you get from the big road races.  You don't get surprise winners too often, either.

You can survive without discs, but I'd put 'em on given the choice :-)

by gavia on Nov 30, 2007 8:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Full Disclosure
I raced mountain bikes too before I got a road bike. And I smoked pot too, but never before a race ;-)
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 30, 2007 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you're going hardtail
I've always gotten good rides out of Indy Fab, Kona, Jamis, and GT. If you poke around eBay you can find good bikes at good prices. You can also check out jensonusa.com for frame sales and build one up yourself. It's not a bad way to go if you've got the knowledge to put all the pieces together.

What's the weather like where you live? If it's a lot of rain and muck, I'd back up Gavia and go with disc. If it's not, V-brakes have more than enough stopping power at less coin than discs. Plus there's less to wrong with them.

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 30, 2007 1:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

ooooh....
Indy Fab.  So beautiful.  LOL, ok, as I typed that I realized that I think we've had this conversation before.  But I'll say it again anyway.  I love love those bikes.

Even in dry I like the disc thingies, cuz they're easier on the hands and a tad more precise.  But I do agree that there's more to go wrong with 'em.  I've raced XC on V's plenty and it's no problemo at all.

by gavia on Nov 30, 2007 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The first thing to decide is what kind of budget
you are going to shop with. I have been doing a lot of looking in the 1750 - 2500 range and my best buy right now would be the Gary Fisher Hifi 29er. They changed the geometry of the bikes this year and after having tried out several back to back the GF has the most natural feel to me. The larger wheels are they way to go as well. Don't take my word for it though, get to a shop and ride as many different brands and models as you can before you decide. In my experience MTB's tend to have way more riding personality than road bikes and what might feel natural to me may feel cramped and twitchy to you. Kona, GF, & Specialized  all make some good bikes for hardtail/lower priced units as well. You can get a decent and reliable ride for under a grand for sure.
The Crystal Method

by Clydesdale on Nov 30, 2007 2:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

PS
Look to see if any of the major manufacturer's are having demo day sin your area as well. I used the local Specialized Demo day to ride their new 29er offerings and then immediately went to my local Trek/GF store to ride the GF's.
The Crystal Method

by Clydesdale on Nov 30, 2007 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

29 versus 26
Thanks for the link.

Is the 29er performance really better? It seems like that's the popular option these days.

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 30, 2007 8:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, You roll over stuff
without even noticing it compared to 26" wheels. Especially things like smaller rocks and roots.
The Crystal Method

by Clydesdale on Dec 4, 2007 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you do end up going FS
You'd be remiss not testing out Santa Cruz and Rocky Mountain rigs.
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 30, 2007 2:37 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Full Suspension
I don't have a ton of mountain bike buying experience, but I own a full suspension Santa Cruz Superlight and I absolutely love that bike. With the full suspension you can ride down virtually anything with confidence. FS has more stuff that can break and they're heavier, but I've had it for 6 years with no problems and I've ridden it pretty hard. It just eats up the trail when you descend and makes climbing trails simple.... Like a guy on bike snob said the other day "It climbs like a monkey wearing crampons and descends like a monkey wearing crampons dropped out of a helicopter"... A hardtail will certainly be lighter, but with mine, you can lock out the rear shock and turn it into a pseudo-hardtail if you want, which is nice if you have to climb on pavement and are a roadie (climbing on a bouncy FS bike will drive you nuts). So if weight is your thing, go hardtail. If you want the most versatile bike which you will be able to ride down trails you wouldn't hike down, get the lightest full suspension you can afford. No opinion about disk brakes. I don't have any and my bike stops just fine...

by Jimbo... on Nov 30, 2007 2:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

A good friend of mine has
both the Blur and the Superlight and won't ride anything else now.
"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Nov 30, 2007 3:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Where do you live?
That's the most important question, I think.  If you're in, say, Kansas, I think we can rule out squishies with 6" of travel on both ends.  But if you're in an area with welcoming DH possibilities, you may find yourself unhappy with a hardtail.

After that comes:

  1. does throwing yourself down a mountain sound fun?
  2. any objections to used bikes?
  3. whatcha feel like spending?
  4. do you have any friends who have joined the rigid SS/fixie cult?  
I've got a couple of hardtails and a FS right now (in addition to the road bikes). If I had to have just one of them, I'd go with the FS.

~

Jimbo, jump on a bike with discs for a good run, and then reconsider :)  I had no idea what I was missing until I bought my Gary Fisher Sugar+ with BB7's.  Holy crap did it make a world's worth of difference (esp. the one-finger braking).

by Sui Juris on Nov 30, 2007 7:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Fun factor
I want a fun ride for the winter months,  to get a good workout, but also play with some technical skills. Some of the mountain bikers impressed me with their bike handling tricks during the cross season.

DH is probably not much of an option here.

New or used is OK. I'll probably go for a new bike. I don't want to break the bank, but want good components and a reasonably light machine.

I am fascinated by the SS bikes, but strangely, not by the fixies.

Any SS recommendations?

-K-

by KevinK on Nov 30, 2007 8:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will do
Disc brakes seemed expensive for something that was heavier and unproven to me at the time so I opted out. I was going for as light as I could afford. In fact, the damn thing is lighter than my current road bike! Which is more a reflection on how sad my old road bike is. My piggy bank is dedicated to a new road bike so maybe I need to start a new diary on road bike advice...

by Jimbo... on Nov 30, 2007 10:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

really helpful info here
This is a huge time saver. It's like borrowing people's obsession, and the time they spent hunting through catalogs, reviews, etc... Very cool stuff here. I'm sure the road bike question will provoke an outpouring.
-K-

by KevinK on Dec 1, 2007 8:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wanna
I really wanna build up a Santa Cruz Chameleon as a SS.  That would so rock.

The Kona explosif also has horiz drop-outs, and would make a pretty fun SS.  

LOL, so many bikes, so little time :-)

by gavia on Nov 30, 2007 8:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

SS seems wonderfully simple
A full suspension, single speed sounds like a pretty interesting combination. Minimal drive train maintenance, just hose it off and put it away.
-K-

by KevinK on Nov 30, 2007 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure...
I don't think I've ever seen a full sus SS.  It might make the cosmos explode - the collision of simplicity and complexity, you know.  You have to be careful about such things ;-)

If your terrain is rolling, you could totally go SS.  You would just run the walls, which really, can be faster than pedaling them anyway.

You just need a frameset with a horizontal drop-out, then start buildin'  Can I live vicariously?

by gavia on Nov 30, 2007 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How 'bout SS rigid?
My only bike for the past 5 years (until I picked up a geared cx bike off c-list this spring) has been a rigid SS steel MTB. Simple and pretty light. I think you get more out of your ride physically and mentally w/ SS rigid. For example, you have to pick a good line rather than just ride over everything. Also, you get out of the saddle often to climb and to use your legs as suspension. I have 32x16 gearing and when a climb is too steep, it's usually faster on your feet than others pedaling their granny gear. My one tech luxury is discs -they just feel better, especially for the front brake. Oh yeah, I run a 2.4 front tire to cushion the rigidity a bit.

by huy on Dec 1, 2007 12:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just got back into MTB riding
last winter as a way to get through the cold weather and to get out of my very rigid road mentality for a couple months a year.  My advice would be to pick up a used bike and ride it for a year. and then take the plunge next year into getting something new.  Personally, I wouldn't ride a hard tail around here.  A) it's too rocky, B) my achy back loves the suspension.  C) I don't plan on racing so who cares about a couple pounds if the trade off is more comfort and faster descents.  My bike is a late 90's Univega Dual Action Team which is an XC model with a fox rear shock and White Brothers SC70 (70mm of travel, but next time I'm looking at 100mm).  I tried a friends Specialized Epic with the "brain" which automatically looks out the rear when it's smooth.  very nice.  Next year I plan to go all-in and I'll be looking at Intense Spider, Specialized Epic, Santa Cruz or Rocky Mountain.  I'll stay with FS XC but look for a locking rear shock.  Currently I have V brakes which seem to be a major improvement of the Canti's from my first MTB 15 years ago, however I could see the allure of disc.  Plus, every wheelset still comes with a rim-brake option.  I am using SRAM grip shifters and XT derailleurs.  I like the grip shifters and will either go full SRAM X9 next year, or go with an XT/SRAM combo like I currently have.  
Unlike my road bikes which I built up, I may look for a complete bike and tweak some of the items afterwards.  MTB frames and components seem to be very expensive, but there are some complete bike deals which are very nice.  I love this one:
http://www.coloradocyclist.com/product/display/10530/
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Nov 30, 2007 11:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I meant to say
"not" every wheelset comes with a rim-brake option..
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Nov 30, 2007 11:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

the guys down here
prefer full-sus for the rocks and gnarly trails they have to deal with.

Choices range from Mavericks, with Santa Cruz probably the most popular.  Our local national champ rides a trek fuel, and there's a healthy contingent of specializeds out there.  Don't overlook Haros, which provide a good ride for not so much spend.

by R Mc on Dec 1, 2007 11:40 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Mountain biking in Washington (the state)
Where I do most of my Mountain biking we have lots of hills, roots, and drops.  Hard tails work for all but a few of the rides, but you will be able to ride longer and harder with a full suspension.  I ride an Ellsworth Truth.  It is amazing.  The people I ride with sport Santa Cruz Blur, Yeti ASO, Rocky Mountain Element, Kona, Gary Fisher, and of course Treks Fuels.  So we are a Cross Country Crowd.

With Mountain bikes, unless you have a killer donor bike, you are always better buying complete in my opinion.

The key difference between rim brakes and disk brakes is the braking power when wet.  Being around Seattle I am often riding in the rain.  I currently have rim brakes and I have gotten myself in situations where I can't stop which is scary.  (Some my Christmas present to me is disk brakes and wheels)

My 2 cents - Hope it helps

by Peen on Dec 2, 2007 11:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for all the comments
I'll be test riding a few options. The local shops stock Kona and Santa Cruz among others.

I'll probably go the FS route. I'll wait for a week or two to make my buy, when the bike shop owners are getting by eating their stock of power gels. The first winter storm is starting to growl here.

-K-

by KevinK on Dec 3, 2007 9:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

sorry for the delay
So, with your answers in mind, I'd look (as you are) to a nice XC full suspension setup.  Say, 4" in front and back.  Konas are nice, but (I think) can be pigs on the lower end.  My affinity for Santa Cruz exists only because I used to ride their decks (Rob Roskopp!).  You may roll your eyes at Specialized, but they make some great _()##@# bikes.  Take a look at one of their dealers, too.

Frame geometry is hard to quantify/describe, but makes a big difference, I think.  So demo as much as you can.  Also, if it comes down to it, be willing to trade component levels (but don't drop below LX) for decent suspension (I'm a big fan of Fox, these days).  Components are much cheaper to upgrade than shocks.

Finally, beware the cult of the SS and the church of the 29er.* Those come later :)

*unless you're over 6'2".  When I ride a 29er, it's somewhat different, but not significantly so.  That said, everyone I know who's taller than me (I'm 6'1") has found the 29er worth their time.

Anyway, good luck, and jump on with IMBA or your local club (if for no other reason than the likely discounts at your LBS).

by Sui Juris on Dec 4, 2007 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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