Musette du Jour/Open Musette

by Chris... on Jul 24, 2007 5:25 PM EDT in News

Wicked brief today; I just saw a few pieces worth passing on. If anyone else sees stuff worth reading, please pass on links. Thanks!

ASO reaction to Vino: we're winning! I wish I could be so certain. Also, it's the UCI's fault, and if they knew about the Chicken's missed tests before the Tour, he would have been excluded. Actually, VN has a longer piece up now with the ASO leaders. CN too. The Tour won't be stopping over this.

As for the Chicken, by the Danish Cycling Union's count he's had four warnings, which means he should have been suspended by now. Can the Tour let him off on a technicality like this? Not sure, but don't miss the associated photo altered to make it look like Rasmussen is at an outdoor acid test.

Want to learn all about homologous blood transfusions and how to detect them? I don't, but you can, straight from a real doctor.

What's a Gendarme to do in a doping crisis? Two words: dumpster diving!

David Millar is outspoken and unsparing. Bonnie DeSimone has a good writeup of Millar and the day's events.

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Normally I would never

click an ESPN link on Cycling but that is an excellent article and really drives home the passion that Millar has for cycling and doing it clean.

Coup De Pot Rouleurs

by Clydesdale on Jul 24, 2007 5:42 PM EDT 0 recs

Hearing out of his own mouth is even better

Play Video

by Scott. on Jul 24, 2007 5:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Millar really did look stunned

I hadn't realised that the press conference was half an hour long but I saw a couple of clips where he looked absolutely shattered. A bit like Zabriskie did in those last few interviews he did for VN where he was saying that yeah, he felt really great, but his body language told another story altogether.

The french teams are spitting too. The 6 of them plus Gerolsteiner (though not T-Mobile, interestingly) have finally split from the AIGCP and are starting a "Movement for Credible Cycling", disavowing even TUEs. If the doctor needs to administer corticoids then the rider will be withdrawn from racing for a fortnight.
http://tour-de-france.france2.fr/le-tour-une.php?id_article=578

by Monty. on Jul 24, 2007 5:50 PM EDT 0 recs

This made me laugh, from CN:

Eric Boyer, Team Manager, (Cofidis):

"I feel sick. I hope that Vinokourov won't be a coward and deny everything. He said that he worked with Ferrari just for training plans. He always told us what a brave guy he is, that he is stronger than the pain, that the French ride behind everyone else because they are lazier. Now we see that he is a big bastard."

Vino, the "big bastard." Probably a translation thing, but made me chuckle nonetheless.

by Scott. on Jul 24, 2007 6:52 PM EDT 0 recs

How about this one?

Theo de Rooij, Team Manager, (Rabobank):

"It is amazing, how the results of doping controls are unpacked for the press. That was the case at the Giro and now it goes on that way. It is especially the French press, which has a very aggressive attitude."

Uhh... Yeah, the press is the problem. What a dweeb.

-K-

by KevinK on Jul 24, 2007 11:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

yup, saw that one too. blame the messenger, eh?

by Scott. on Jul 25, 2007 12:02 AM EDT up 0 recs

maybe it cuts a bit closer

to the bone for Rabo.

-K-

by KevinK on Jul 25, 2007 12:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

"salopard"

Original: "on se rend compte que c'est un gros salopard"

English: "We realize that he's a big (fat) 'salopard'"

'salopard' -- "Personne sans scrupule, dont la conduite est particulièrement vile."

Which is roughly something like....

"Person without scruples, whose conduct is particularly low"

"Vino's a big fat bastard" seems to work well enough... :-o

-Greg

by gregm on Jul 24, 2007 7:04 PM EDT 0 recs

this photo suddenly has new meaning

Didi made me do it!

by Scott. on Jul 24, 2007 7:23 PM EDT 0 recs

Priceless!!

Got a problem? Va fa Napoli!

by Chris... on Jul 24, 2007 7:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Didi is a juicer

clearly he is on the Rogaine

Team Bobke's Spleen - Who wants to be stranded with a flat tire?

by Jimbo... on Jul 24, 2007 7:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Just so as not to leave out ANY of the leaders...

Just in case ~]:-> and Vino's scandals aren't enough, folks are also publishing more direct links to Alberto Contador in the Puerto documents today.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/weitere/artikel/939/124756/
http://www.as.com/articulo/deporte/Ha/llamado/Gordo/dasmasA00/20060714dasdaimas_7/Tes/

Basically Document 31 of the Puerto files lists the systematic program for Manolo Saiz's team in 2005. Alberto Contador is listed on the document which apparently was not released to the UCI with the others.

Conspiracy theorists are salavating over the apparent cover-up and speculating that AC and Valv.-Piti were protected by the Spanish. I don't know what to make of it, other than to verify that Contador's name does indeed appear in document 31:
http://www.cycling4all.com/operacionpuerto06-2.pdf

There is a decent translation at the DailyPeloton forums: http://www.dailypelotonforums.com/main/index.php?s=2299d7b5881fa742377db8d5a2153c0d&showtopic=53 82

Not good news, but before we start to think that we'll get a clean leader, lets be sure to put AC in the same camp and give him treatment as fair as that we give to ~]:->.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 24, 2007 7:34 PM EDT 0 recs

DP

Reading that DP thread is an exercise in crazy-making. I mean the so-called hard core fans of this sport are just plain crazy...

by ursula on Jul 24, 2007 8:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

no smoking gun in here...

Alberto Contador - D.O.B. 12/6/1982.

It is mentioned in the pdf document that it was found in a notebook of the team, of which he was a member, the teams race schedule and the riders for each race, starters and alternatates.

It is noted that his initials appear among others in a list on the back a certain 'Document 31' with the list title being 'individualization'.

The referenced article basically is a transcript of the .pdf.

The notes were for the riding season of 2005, he would have been 22 going on 23. Hard to imagine this young man as a hard core doper at that age - but anything is possible.

by humble on Jul 24, 2007 8:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

oh come on, he rode for Saiz

he doped.

It doesn't mean he's on the hot sauce now, but he was. Period.

-K-

by KevinK on Jul 24, 2007 11:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

And VS wimps out by

broadcasting a pre-recorded TdF Week 2 review, with a crawl on the bottom giving the Vino/Astana news. Absolutely unreal.

See versus.com for Phil's very short comment about the situation that ends with "Paul, Bob and I are, for once, speechless. We are all very upset with such a stupid action at a time the sport looked to be putting its own house in order. It is incomprehensible that Vinokourov could do such a thing when he must have known he was under suspicion because of his dealing with disgraced doctor Michele Ferrari in Italy. He must have known he would be tested at every opportunity and the time trial was the perfect occasion. Tomorrow we will know more."

VS just blew a major opportunity to provide the US with some great journalistic coverage. Surely their "ace team" of commentators could have given us something better than this. Bad.

It's not over until the fat lady sings! -Jens Voigt, Philosopher. (ToCA '07)

by Ruthann on Jul 24, 2007 8:10 PM EDT 0 recs

Couldn't agree more

What a disappointment, and as you say, what a missed opportunity for Versus. I'd been away from tube and computer for a week and tuned in to see what they had to say about the single biggest story in their sport. Unbelievable. Rerunning the ITT stage, ending with Vino on the podium, arms upraised, and the only mention of anything amiss was the little crawl at the bottom, chirping "Tune in tomorrow at 6:30 AM EDT for a full report."

VS is reminiscent of the print cycling magazines -- 3 weeks or so behind the news curve.

As I posted in another thread, I then turned to ABC nightly news, whose lead story was "Scandal in Sports." It was the NBA ref, Michael Vick and the dogs and no mention at all of the TdF.

Oh well, Barry Bonds didn't make it on ABC either.

by NE Observer on Jul 24, 2007 9:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's reactions like that

that have soured me on Liggett, Sherwen, & Roll.

Shocked? Yeah, right. How long have they been around cycling? They have a freakin' confessed doper on their program staff, for Pete's sake, and they claim to be shocked? Why not stop treating their audience like idiots and bring the knowledge that they have to have picked up over the years (unless of course they have purged Gewiss and Festina, and [long list redacted] from their memory banks) to actually build some credibility for themselves.

It's gotten to the point where I smirk every time that Sherwen mentions the "suitcase of courage" because I'm thinking about the briefcase full of syringes that Chris Carmichael carried around with the Junior team. Of course it was only full of vitamins, courage, and "extract of cortisone". (See Walsh, From Lance to Landis for the details on that one).

And ironically enough, the only two guys who seem even prepared to deal with the properly critical stance on the doping issue are Trautwig and Andreu

A lot of people have been claiming in the past few days that you "can't prove a negative"--i.e. you can't prove that you didn't dope.

And in absolute terms, that's probably correct. However, we have the physiological data available to know what hematocrits SHOULD look like in week two of a stage race, same for most hormone levels. (Check out the COmpetitors Radio podcast with Dr. Michael Ashenden--it's illuminating). And what's more, with a comprehensive longitudinal system of profiles, we could see--just like we can see power data--what rider values are. Values that behave abnormally are probably indicative of doping; of course there will be variation (like Vaughters' and Cunego's and Cioni's +50 hematocrits), but such things can be verified. This may seem invasive, but if riders are willing to let data like watts/threshold and vo2/max be publicized, they shouldn't be too upset--especially if it provides a means to save their livelihood.

With a system like that, riders, race organizers, and sponsors could have some level of certainty.

Beyond that, the out-of-competition testing system HAS to be fixed.

by R Mc on Jul 24, 2007 9:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

Look a little more closely

at what Phil (speaking for the group) actually wrote on Versus.com today. It was not that they were shocked, shocked to find that gambling was going on in the casino but that they were stunned at the stupidity. Seems a reasonable reaction to me, as far as it went. (Phil: "We'll know more tomorrow." Stand by, they'll be sending it by pigeon.)

<Paul, Bob and I are, for once, speechless. We are all very upset with such a stupid action at a time the sport looked to be putting its own house in order. It is incomprehensible that Vinokourov could do such a thing when he must have known he was under suspicion because of his dealing with disgraced doctor Michele Ferrari in Italy. He must have known he would be tested at every opportunity and the time trial was the perfect occasion.>

by NE Observer on Jul 24, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

d'accord

Vino's alleged action--I'll go ahead and put the alleged there--seems to best fit the arrogance explanation.

by R Mc on Jul 24, 2007 10:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Unlike the cyclists, I'm willing to give VS

and P,P,& B the benefit of the doubt on this one. Phil blogged, and VS inserted that little scrolling blurb, so they know the viewers are going to want to know more. But considering that this news broke this afternoon in France, and that the rolling VS production team was probably in transit, or getting ready to transfer to set up for tomorrow's stage (having just wrapped up this evening's broadcast), my guess is logistics had a lot to do with the lack of coverage.

And besides, I'm not really sure what kind of insightful coverage you expected anyway. Hard-hitting journalists they ain't, nor do they pretend to be. To me, these guys are just amiable, excitable, semi-entertaining cheerleaders, and they're probably as gutted as the rest of us.

by Scott. on Jul 24, 2007 10:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agreed

if VS wants to reduce their losses on cycling by skipping out on rehashing the news we already know, fine by me. I need VS for one thing: live stage broadcasts. And anyway, I suspect they're going to start tomorrow's broadcast with some more focus on this, at 3:30am my time.

I actually thought last year they did a really solid job -- Trautwig too -- of scrapping the preview show and covering OP.

Got a problem? Va fa Napoli!

by Chris... on Jul 24, 2007 10:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Why no positive blood tests in three years?

Once again I am left dumbfounded!

Vinokourov had been booted from the TdF and Astana has been disinvited and Astana accepted.

So he has tested positive for blood doping. From a test on Stage 13. I wonder if the test from Stage 15 will also come back positive?

I am really torn by this crap. But I am torn because I can't seem to trust the riders and I don't completely trust the authorities. Especially the science. I wish I could say that the science is good and solid.

But if you read through the lines, only three riders have tested positive for blood doping. Hamilton, Perez and Vino. The first two in 2004 and Vino now in 2007. The Operacion Puerto broke open in May 2006.

Basso won every stage, no just kidding, he won most of the mountain stages and wore the Pink Jersey forever in the Giro in April 2006. Jan Ulrich took the time trial in commanding fashion. Jorg Jachske won races. So did Scarponi. They were all tested and no one came up positive for over three years.

Now this. Hard to believe that he blood doped, when there is a likely chance that you might get popped.

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Jul 24, 2007 10:10 PM EDT 0 recs

Different kind of blood doping

The norm lately has been to use your own blood. Vino used someone else's. There's no sanctionable test for using someone else's, though a good anti-doping program like CSC or Vaughters has going will be able to tell that something is up. Vino got nailed because he was stupid or desperate or some combination of both.

by gavia on Jul 24, 2007 10:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

that's one thing that bother me too

That brings me to Tyler Hamilton.

If he was a client of Fuentes and he was blood doping ,in theory, using his own blood (and seemingly Fuentes' preferred method), why did he test positive for someone else's blood.

I believe I read a statement that said he had old and new blood in his system (supposedly before the time trial), it didn't state whether it was his or someone else's.

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Jul 24, 2007 11:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

clarification

The last part was referring to Vino's + test! Not TH's Olympic TT.

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Jul 24, 2007 11:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

L'Equipe said it was someone else's blood

As relayed by cyclingnews.com:

L'Equipe reported on Tuesday afternoon that the Kazakh's blood had shown evidence of a transfusion from another person with a compatible blood type in an analysis done in the Châtenay-Malabry laboratory.

by socal on Jul 25, 2007 12:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

As it turns out

it was the blood of an Austrian gay TV fashion reporter.

Got a problem? Va fa Napoli!

by Chris... on Jul 25, 2007 12:38 AM EDT up 0 recs

Vino responded to the rumor

that it was his father's blood by saying if that were the case it would have tested positive for vodka (Eurosport).

by NE Observer on Jul 25, 2007 8:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

A late edit...

Sorry, I was just reading through this and realized I totally flailed it.

Should read: "there is no sanctionable test for using one's own blood"

Big, big difference. Idiot, Gav, idiot ;-)

Vino and Hamilton both got nailed for transfusing someone else's. Fuentes occasionally used this trick also, ie a wife, girlfriend, brother, etc., because it's easier on the riders' body, because there is no need to recover from taking blood out to store. But, of course, it's testable, as Vino's case makes clear.

by gavia on Jul 25, 2007 12:12 PM EDT up 0 recs