appropriate responses

by KevinK on Sep 16, 2007 2:58 PM EDT

I was on my way home from doing a couple of my favorite climbs when someone shouted an insult at me from a car across the intersection. The only part I heard, was "use the sidewalk, dick!"

I was on my way to ignore it when the light changed at exactly the right time, and I turned the burners on and chased the car down.

I've been insulted countless times while out on my bike, usually I just ignore it, or can't even make out what the dweeb says. And really, drivers around here are much better about cyclists now than they were ten years ago.

This time, I read the young punk the riot act. He seemed embarassed that I actually caught up to him and called him out. I was hoping he would step out of the car and take a swing, but it didn't happen, and we went our separate ways with a appropriate venom hurled both directions.

I dislike getting worked up about anything to this degree--though I'm impressed with my turn of speed to chase him down! I probably vented my year's supply of anger in this incident.

If it were you, what would you do?

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America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed. -Eleanor Roosevelt

by ELVISGOAT on Sep 16, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah, the same

But it's really not a bright idea. Esp. with young guys (by which I mean 18-23). I've no fear of a swing from anyone, but there's too much testosterone sloshing around (and too many things beyond a swing).

All that said, few things piss me off quicker than someone in 4000 pounds of steel complaining about my bike. I'll post the full story here sometime, but last week I got into a yelling match with a cop (never a good idea) who had the gall to call me out for touching a SUV that was in the process of running me into a lane of parked cars. GTFO.

by Sui Juris on Sep 16, 2007 4:32 PM EDT reply actions

I'll admit

it was no display of intelligence by me, and it was one of those classic cases where a split second decision could have turned into something really bad. I was running on pure dumb rage at getting bullied by some idiot in a metal box.

I probably should have ignored it, but as Lloyd Braun once said, "serenity now, insanity later."

A cop! They have multiple ways to make your life miserable. I can't wait to hear that one!

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 16, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions

bicycle pumps

can make pretty designs in paint jobs

by Scott. on Sep 16, 2007 5:23 PM EDT reply actions

the car had an open sun roof

and I had a full water bottle, that was going to be my opening move, but I decided to deliver an angry lecture instead.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 16, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry but

You handled it about as bad is it could be handled. You clearly were looking for trouble and that is NEVER good. Not under ANY circumstances is looking for trouble good. You need to get over the fact that someone called you a name. Actually WANTING the guy to take a swing? Ridiculous. A couple of possible things happen: 1. He wrecks your dental work. 2. You wreck his dental work. He takes you to court. Witnesses say YOU hunted him down. YOU end up goin' down. You thought about dumping something in his sunroof? Again, ridiculous. In court, you will go down. He will never go down for calling you a "dick". And given how you handled the situation, sounds like you WERE a dick. Alternatively, pepper spray him, beat the crap out of him and dent and scratch his car before you leave the scene feeling great.

by Toyota on Sep 16, 2007 7:05 PM EDT reply actions

but

Oh, What a Feeling!

by Sui Juris on Sep 16, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with what you're saying

I'm glad it didn't escalate beyond words, no matter how pissed off I was at the time.

It was pretty lame of me to chase someone down for insulting me.

It is also pretty feeble for someone to menace and bully because he feels empowered to do so by the implied threat of automotive violence.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 16, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions

the thing to do

is probably vent the rage in a massive interval, that way, I'll get in some training and leave the problem behind. That's what I'll do when this sort of thing happens again, as it is sure to.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 16, 2007 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I dunno

Honestly? Stuff like what he did has to be countered. Effectively. Preferably immediately. And as much as I enjoy a good pissing match, I know it's probably a bad idea. What really works? Pulling up, saying "Hey, I'm just trying to ride my bike, I hope I wasn't in your way, we both have to share the road, etc." in the nicest possible way. You know how you feel like a complete asshole when you give someone the finger, and they just wave nicely at you? That's how we want to make these folks feel. And that's much harder than intimidating the shit out of them.

*oh, and I'm not making any claim about being able to keep to my own advice. I'd say that I have a losing average on it, but I'm trying . . .

by Sui Juris on Sep 16, 2007 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions

have to share:

back in the quiet corner (NE Connecticut for the rest of ya'll) several years ago, the local hammer was a guy named Jim Henry, who was the silver medallist at the Seoul Paralympics in 88. (He lost an arm in a machine-shop accident, discovered cycling, swimming, and running in rehab. Yes, I said swimming--he qualified for Seoul in that too, and always won the red cross swimathons in Willimantic). You haven't lived til you've seen a one-armed guy drop you climbing out of the saddle. Try it sometime (i.e. climbing one-armed out of the saddle--takes some serious lower back strength).

Anyway, one day a woman came close to taking him out going across the old American Thread company bridge on hwy 32. [My ex-wife witnessed this . . .] Jim gathered himself, took off, chased the woman down (there's a pretty good little hill involved here), caught up to her, and banged her fender to get her to stop. Later he told me that by that time, he'd cooled down, and he just told her that his baby had just been born and he would really appreciate being around to be her dad. He said the woman a) couldn't stop staring at his non-arm and b) was REALLY apologetic.

by R Mc on Sep 16, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree it has to be reacted to

I was joking about the "serenity now, insanity later" comment. But I think there's some truth to that.

The driver-on-cyclist bullying is something like second hand smoke; when a driver insults or threatens you, even if you choose to take the high road, your blood pressure is going to spike, and the adrenaline is going to flow.

Doing a huge sprint would diffuse the physiological response. Obviously, it does nothing to counter the driver's behavior. I guess the "have a nice day" smile and wave could work. I'll try that the next time someone disses me on the road.

I recently saw a buddy's well intentioned rider/driver diplomatic effort devolve into a shouting match in about five seconds! I would have expected it to degenerate had the driver been a young-ish male, but in this case the driver was a soccer mom! You just never know what you're getting into.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 17, 2007 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions

I just smile and wave

The two times I can remember giving the one finger salute to an ornery (I supposed) driver, they turned out to be friends giving me a friendly honk.

Toyota's right, you could have been in deep trouble.

Another story I heard is some guys that let out all the air out of all the tires of a guy that nearly hit them (they happened upon it parked a few miles away). Don't recommend this either. Almost ended in a violent confrontation. Cyclists always lose.

What I do recommend is waving and trying to get license numbers if dangerous driving was involved. Report them. The sheriff or police have to log it and could be used against them in the future.

I have lots of stories but I'll stop there.

by ghisallo on Sep 16, 2007 11:59 PM EDT reply actions

What about the time somebody threw an

apricot pit at me? If I could have caught them, I think the appropriate response would have been more steep than yelling. Only problem... cleats on concrete. Never the best footwear for a fight.

by Tiki on Sep 17, 2007 5:55 AM EDT reply actions

Dude, you played hockey in college

how much harder could it be to fight in cleats than on skates? Give yourself some credit ;-)

When we were in Texas a few years back someone threw a tennis ball at Chris and Pete. Luckily there aim was as bad as their attitude.

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Sep 17, 2007 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Throwing stuff is over the line

Does anyone know of a cycling run-in web site? I'd be curious to see the stats by region, time of year, etc...

I can't even recall a time I was bothered by someone while I was on foot. But, I can more or less count on at least one incident of harassment per season when I'm out riding.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 17, 2007 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions

I gotta know

Tikigiant, where did you play hockey? I love college hockey. I spent four years at BU. There was never anything better than beating BC in the Beanpot.

by johnw on Sep 17, 2007 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions

cyclist run-in website

i've often thought about a cyclist-run-in website. i'm sure there would be issues of liability, slander, etc., blah, legal stuff, blah, blah.

but wouldn't it be great to have a website dedicated to ranting & posting pictures of *sshat drivers, bad parking jobs, etc.

the site: welcometotheinternetasshole.com
then you could take cell-phone camera shots of the raging/bad/oblivious drivers. you're only response to them would be:
"Welcome to the internet Asshole!"

--legal disclaimer: i take NO responsibility/liability/use at your own risk....

by actor1 on Sep 17, 2007 10:29 AM EDT reply actions

This reminds of a very cool

website that my wife showed me. It is called Found Magazine and it is all about things people have found and sent in. Here is one of my favorites. A letter left to someone about their parking job.

Full web page and story Here

My second favorite has to be this one though About Rock Paper Scissors

Los Cabra Montesa's

by Clydesdale on Sep 17, 2007 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Really. One of the coolest things out there.

by Sui Juris on Sep 17, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

oh, and Clydesdale's second favorite

may well contain the solution to our driver-cyclist confrontation problems . . .

by Sui Juris on Sep 17, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Totally understand the anger, but...

I totally avoid confrontation with the car people as much as possible. I am a woman and I very often train alone. I have no desire whatsoever to get mixed up in some guy's bad day. In the car, out of the car, he's going to win. Since I frequently use the same roads for training, it's entirely possible that I'm going to see the same cars again. I really don't want enemies out there, it's hard enough to stay out of trouble as it is.

I like the wave and smile tactic someone mentioned upthread. They yell or flip out, I wave and smile.

I do yell to get their attention, if they're going to plow me in an intersection or whatever, and once in a while a wtf slips through the tranquila facade. But I really try to avoid doing anything to provoke the car people. They're bigger than me.

(I'm also usually wearing sponsor clothes, which is yet another reason to behave as politely as possible.)

by Jen See on Sep 17, 2007 11:54 AM EDT reply actions

Women get the business too?

So, it's just a bike-hater thing--not a male pissing match.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 17, 2007 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Totally

I get my share, fo' sure.

It's a "I'm in a hurry, I'm the center of the planet, get the f-ck out of my way" thing, not a guy thing.

I got a lengthy lecture recently from some dumbass because I was on the road not on the bike path. He could have passed easily and safely and been on his way. But no, he had to pull along side and go off on me for being on the road and supposedly in his way. Uh, thanks for the advice sir, yes, of course that would be a good idea sir. Uh, you're holding up traffic more than I am, sir.

Geesh. People are lame sometimes.

by Jen See on Sep 17, 2007 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions

The problem is you don't know who's in the car.

I'm 6' and usually under 160 lbs. and haven't won a fight since - well probably, ever. So I don't really want to get in a physical confrontation.

You don't know who's in the car. In your case he was embarassed, but he could have had a gun or a baseball bat. He could have been off his meds.

Where I live a guy tried to shoot a clerk in a supermarket because they did have the flavor of ice cream he wanted. (The gun jammed.)

As my wife once put so well, "I long for days when you could blow your horn and give someone the finger and live to tell about it."

Whether in the car or on the bike, you just got to let it go.

by Punctured on Sep 17, 2007 1:26 PM EDT reply actions

That's the key

I myself, while not the pugilist type at all, am VERY touchy about stuff when riding.

If it's clearly some silly kid (in my case, UW posers), then it's probably not the worst thing to let them know Cyclists aren't to be fucked with. If you're swerving to survive the cell-phone spacers, a good banging on the window usually shatters their nerves... something to make them remember. But that's about it.

I used to live in a city with a lotta gangs and guns; now I live in one with fewer violent people, but enough of them to make me think ahead of time, I'm not going to respond. Not something I can always live by, but it usually kicks in if, say, I catch sight of the NRA sticker in time.

Got a problem? Va fa Napoli!

by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 17, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

But

always carry your cell phone. You can summon help quickly and even use the camera / recording function to document trouble if you get the chance.

"Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel. "

by Drew on Sep 17, 2007 1:51 PM EDT reply actions

A cyclists dream...

The story goes, A local hammerhead was yelled at by a fat guy in a truck. He yelled back, and the fat guy decides to pull up on the curb, jump out and take a swing at him. The cyclist he swung at was an ex-boxer. Well what ensued was an easily ducked overhead right, followed by a hard cross to the chin. Down the big fellow goes, hitting the pavement while unconscious. He struck a blow for everyone that has to deal with assholes yelling at us. That being said, I worry less about the verbal assaults, but are far more angered when I'm pinned to the curb by someone in a Chevy Suburban on a cell phone that has absolutely no clue that I'm there even though they just passed me a hundred yards ago.

Vlaenderen die Leu

by Peter Fontecchio on Sep 17, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions

When I was in Boston...

I enjoyed catching people and berating them with strange non-sequiturs...

"Hey! I used to have a car like this!"
"There's no honking in Boston. You should go to New York."
"Jesus loves you!"
"I think your turn signal is burned out. You should get that checked."
"I'm a big fan of raisins."

Assholes are assholes. There's no changing that. Might as well say something to make yourself laugh instead.

Born from Jets...

by ssmith on Sep 18, 2007 3:08 PM EDT reply actions

Friendly advice?

I'm thirty, and just got my first car- moved to Iowa after years of walking and using public transportation in Philly. I've still got the pedestrian "no, after you" mentality, and I'm getting that this can be dangerous and annoying to others. There are tons of cyclists here, which is awsome- everytime I see one on the road I want to pull over and apologize for my evil death-box! So I know I'm an idiot, but could someone give me some advice on how to be as polite and safe as possible to cyclists, say, at an intersection or passing on a road? My instinct is to slow down and just act like they are a kinda slow car in front of me, which is fine by me, but I don't want them to think I'm stalking them- having a car behind me for a long time would make me nervous...

by hippo on Sep 19, 2007 1:57 PM EDT reply actions

passing

My basic rule of thumb is to give a cyclist as much of the road as possible as I'm passing in my car.

The only times that's an issue is when there's a hill or oncoming traffic.

In those cases, I just wait until it's safe, then go around. If I have to wait, I stay several feet behind the cyclist, so he/she doesn't feel like I'm breathing down their neck.

I'm pleased when drivers do that for me.

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 19, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks!

by hippo on Sep 20, 2007 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions

what I did, and why it wasn't too smart.

Saturday morning, 8 AM, last summer...two middle aged guys in a beat up pickup passed us, yelled something about [female genetalia]...and the passenger SPAT at us!

Then the truck had to stop at a light at the bottom of the hill. I caught up and spat back in their window. My husband was trying to pull me away. They charged out of the car and tried to take him out, while I yelled that they should pick a fight with me if they wanted to fight, because he didn't have [female genetalia]. Luckily the light had changed, and we swerved away in a direction that the car couldn't follow.

My husband then reminded me that this is America, where people can carry guns, and suggested that if I wanted to keep him in one piece for a few more years, I should learn to keep my temper--and my spit--to myself.

Also, I'd say nearly half of the standard "get on the sidewalk" shouts come from women, some of whom seem genuinely concerned that I don't know where I should be.

Sigh.

--JFS

by JFS_PGH on Sep 22, 2007 8:19 PM EDT reply actions

getting dissed like that

really sparks the rage. It's hard not to react, or to guess at the chances that the driver will have a gun, or whatever. But really--if the driver wants to injure you, he's piloting a weapon already.

I have been lucky to not get spit on, or have anything thrown at me.

I'm guessing the NRA won't be advertising on the podium cafe any time soon!

-K-

by KevinK on Sep 23, 2007 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions