Bernhard Kohl Positive: Tour de France
by Jen See on Oct 13, 2008 12:49 PM EDT
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Bernhard Kohl has become the fourth rider to test positive for CERA during this year's Tour de France. Kohl, who rides for Team Gerolsteiner, finished third in the general classification and won the mountains classification. The finding comes as a result of blood testing carried out at the Châtenay-Malabry and Lausanne anti-doping laboratories.
Assuming the finding holds up under legal scrutiny, Kohl would lose both his Tour podium and his mountains jersey. Denis Menchov would become the third place finisher in the general classification, while Carlos Sastre would take over the polka-dot jersey of best climber.
Source: Damien Ressiot, l'equipe.fr.
Reached for comment by German news agency SID, Hans-Michael Holczer, DS of Gerolsteiner, said that he would seek damages from both Schumacher and Kohl. The soon-to-be ex-DS of Gerolsteiner also announced an end to his career in cycling. "I am deeply sad... For me, it is time to retire. I surrender before this criminal energy," Holczer concluded.
Source: radsport-news.com.
Update thingy.
• Team Gerolsteiner has announced its withdrawal from cycling effective immediately. The team will not take the start at Lombardia this coming Saturday. Said DS Hans-Michael Holczer, "After ten years in cycling, I do not deserve this. It shows our helplessness." — Source: l'equipe.fr.
• Holczer also confirmed that he had spoken with Kohl by phone. "I think that his career is over," said Holczer. He said that the Austrian claimed not to know how he had tested positive. Holczer encouraged him to tell the whole story. In this way, Kohl could "make a big contribution for cycling and for himself." — Source: l'equipe.fr.
• If the positive test is confirmed by the B sample and passes the arbitration process, Kohl's contract for next year with Silence-Lotto will be terminated. Commented Geert Coeman to the Austrian Press Agency, the manager of the team, "we have not yet spoken with Bernhard Kohl. If the tests are confirmed, we will take the necessary measures. His contract with us would be nullified." Added Silence DS Marc Sargeant, we have received a "big shock." "We have devoted extensive energy and time" to signing the Austrian. "I feel betrayed," Sargeant concluded. — Source: l'equipe.fr.
One more Update Thingy.
• Kohl tested positive on both 3 July, before the Tour start, and 15 July, the rest day. Unlike Riccò, Kohl will reportedly not waive right to the testing of the B sample. — Source: radsport-news.com.
• Kohl's personal manager, Stefan Matschiner, is reportedly close friends with Walter Meyer. Meyer was banned in 2006 after a scandal at the winter Olympics involving doping in the Austrian bi-athlon and cross country ski teams. — Source: wvcycling.com.
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Léquipe of course
They even say Carlos will get the polkadots if the b test is positive.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Small puffs of smoke emerge from Gavs computer
as she scurries furiously to the far corners of the interwebs to find the latest………….
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
mmmmm hmmmmmmm
Just admit it — it’s as much of a “frist post!!!!!111” as anywhere else. ;)
Seriously though, thanks for keeping PC up-to-date! I used to wait for mondays & thursdays for eurotrash on pez, but now I trust all ya’ll to keep the most important stuff floating on the top of the PC main page.
-Greg
on hot days?
it’s pretty much the truth. i have a powerbook – the ones with the aluminum casing – man, this thingy gets hot sometimes. i heart my mac, but not the heating bit.
you need a heat sink
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
I only ever get round to cleaning mine when I am able to draw a smiley face in the dust.
Doubtless I should take health and safety more seriously…….
yep
I live in California, and spend a lot of time writing in un-air conditioned spaces. Conditions can be a bit more extreme at times in the summer than they probably imagined at Apple World Headquarters. LOL, I have a bunch of random tricks for cooling it off. I haven’t tried an ice pack, but I’ve definitely considered it :-)
I'm not sure ice would last very long in a Californian summer.
You don’t want the poor lappytop to drown!
to add...
I usually put the headline up, then finish the article in these cases. so, if you see the headline, wait a few minutes, then hit refresh and voilà the rest will appear :-)
Um
surely Gav likes a bit more of a challenge than that.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 13, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed
But there’s faint light in the dark, at least the one’s caught for use of CERA were room-mates.
Gav, can you and your cronies at the Gossip World HQ provide us with records of the sleeping arrangements for all Tour teams?
That would make speculation so much easier ;-)
sleeping arrangements not as interesting...
considering Tommeke took this Tour off
+1
You took the words out of my mouth. But, I don’t think anyone could have been THAT surprised. I mean, he comes out of NOWHERE and get the dots and 3rd in the Tour without ANY history prior? I’m disappointed, but not surprised in the least.
If I just had one more gear, I...
Yup and with a little more support in the mountains
he could have won this year’s Tour, too bad about the crash on the descent.
yes
and clearly the reason they didn’t strip placings from admitted dopers of older races — as they would be replaced by others dopers.
Riis for example
by cyclingchallenge on Oct 13, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Odd comment
They’ve to my knowledge always stripped the caught riders of their ranking.
Cutting a rider who admitted to doping would be sending the wrong signal, scaring other riders from admitting.
I hope we all know the difference between being caught and admitting years later.
sure but
Riis has admitted been doped when he won …. how conclusive can you get.
If the Tour operators weren’t sure (or at least fearful) that the guys below him were doping, why wouldn’t they make some sort of statement altering the record books?
by cyclingchallenge on Oct 13, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Because it would be like openly tell all riders to shut up about the past
Something the sport has been accused for in the past.
The solution in Riis’ case to add a comment about his doping and asking him to never show up again was a much more reasonable.
unless he tests positive that is...
what’re the odds on that?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
same here
it still sucks even without the suprise. and it’s made worse by his comments about Schumacher last week – don’t these guys have any pride at all?
so much for helping Cadel next year…
His comments
did give the game away a bit. It’s sad because I thought he was genuine too.
I have to admit to being a bit surprised
Until they said he was Schumachers roommate I didn’t think he was a likely doper.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
i am less surprised this week than i would have been last month...
i’ve been hoping for the best because i thought he was unlikely, too, for whatever reason – it’s not like one can tell from anything anymore anyway…
Fine
let’s just get this over with. Kohl, you’re auf’d. See you on a continental Italian team in two years.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 13, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
and Velonews still say he's going to be of great help to Cadel next years
Can they carry bags and stuff when they’re suspended?
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Just goes to show
you shouldn’t hire a rider who shows a big leap in ability when he needs a contract or new team sponsor. Also means an exhausted rider isn’t necessarily not doping. He could just need more Mircera.
That sounds like a great new name for *Lotto...
BlowLotto. Unfortunately, Tommeke isn’t riding for them.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
Are they changing name again next season?
Anyone know what weird product they will be naming themselves after?
Is it lunchtime?
as in, between 1 and 5pm?
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 13, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
On a brighter note?
I am sort of loving the fact that these blood samples were tested in both Paris and Lausanne and both labs needed a positive result.
It somehow feels so much more conclusive and hopefully eliminates the never ending lawsuit sagas à la Landis, etc
by cyclingchallenge on Oct 13, 2008 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
Truly sad.
I really didn’t see this one coming. His performance was good, but didn’t look otherworldy, like Schumi’s. Kohl was absolutely shattered on le Alpe, and he really looked like a guy we could believe in. Oh well, sucker punched again. I can’t believe I allowed myself to cheer for another scumbag. I am really starting to lose patience with all of this.
Is one of the interesting aspects of the passport though. That, like the blood test, maybe all it really achieves is a reduction in the amount of doping an individual does, rather than stops them taking drugs.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
this has to some degree been one of dams's points
That he can’t always guarantee that no one on his teams is taking doping, but that he can make sure through monitoring that they are getting very little benefit. Given the endless variants – designer steroids, different EPOs – it’s going to be very difficult to have tests for all of them. The monitoring, though not perfect, is the next best thing.
which will, if nothing else, reduce the risk of deaths.
And also make it possible, if not easy, for the non-dopers to compete. That’s already a huge improvement over the 60% days.
His performance in the final time trial
was pretty exceptional.
I mean he was beating Evans for quite some time.
That, in hindsight, was enough to be suspicious about.
thx for link very interesting
so 2009 may be the year of the “no-start” rule
by cyclingchallenge on Oct 13, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
ES also carried an interview with her, in French. It wasn’t very comforting reading.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Let's play hangman
If I can give you an example without naming the rider, there was a rider we targeted out of competition because all the pieces of information came together. We observed his test results in competition and out-of-competition and although he had not tested positive we felt there was a case to be followed up. Then he pulled out of a race he was expected to do well in with a case of tendonitis. This was a few days after it became public that CERA was detectable. So, we thought, this sounds strange. He’s got a very dodgy profile, let’s go and see him at home. Bingo, that was what he was doing.
- *
I’ll start with an E
E*****e**e *e***
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
That was a cryptic one, wasn't it
but I wonder whether they targetted his teammates too, or just hoped to scare them off the juice.
At first I guessed Engelbert Humperdink
but then I re-counted the e’s
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Who is it?
Who? Who? I can’t think of a rider with such a long name.
EMM***E**E *E***
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
yeah, definitely too many stars up there
For those still playing along at home, knock the first name down to eight letters—drop the second M and one of the stars between the second two Es.
What kills me about that example though is that the day it was announced he’d got tendonitis and was going to miss his next race, everyone and really, it was just about everyone, just knew he was a junkie. You didn’t need blood values to see it. If that’s the best example of the passport working so far, then it would have been better not using it.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
But don't forget
that CSF only went on to the bio passport scheme a couple of weeks before the Giro. I doubt they had any long term profile, just one or two very dodgy samples.
I thought that
they had to sign up to ride the Giro, but because they were not PT the deadline was mid-April. I thought too that they dropped out pretty soon afterwards. I may be totally wrong here. And not for the first time I wish that I had saved that Reverbere interview from the after Giro show.
And yet
they will still be around next year. I wonder who will let them race?
The Italian National Clown Federation?
I can only imagine that since the INCF holds the design rights to their kit, that they’ll somehow get them entered into the Giro to parade that eyesore in front of the cameras for three weeks again.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
This is hangman. You guess the letters.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
EMM***ELLE ELL
I was actually look forward to hanging the guy.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
sorry, that’s converted asterixe to formatting. Let’s see what magic formatting question marks unlock
EMM???ELLE ?ELL?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
NNNOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 13, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think that will ever get old...
We gotta find someone suitable for that graphic for next year…
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
Our president Pat McQuaid is a thorn in the side of the Spanish minister for sport with his persistent questions about how things are going.
There’s something about that makes me think of Soviet Russia or Mao’s China. He really needs a “glorius leader” put in front of his name, I think. Anyway, A point. McQuaid doesn’t seem to ask many questions of Spain. Rather he makes statements. Which are oddly like the statements Dick Pound used to make about the UCI. Which our glorious leader denounced for the treacherous and in inflamatory infidel propaganda that they were.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Very disheartening...
Probably the three most stand-out performances from this years tour were from Ricco, Schumacher and Kohl. And the Giro’s outstanding performance was undoubtedly from Sella, and now look what we’re left with. It’s disgraceful. So much for the sport cleaning itself up! EPO’s been replaced with CERA and doping is as rife as ever. Now that they’re catching all the CERA takers, it’s only a matter of time before the next-next-generation EPO comes along.
How can you say "so much for the sport cleaning itself up"?
For the very first time the blood hounds were ahead of the dopers and the ones caught rode for teams which were reluctant to internal testing.
Combined with the announcement about future tests for blood doping the sport has come a long way.
Quite the contrary
Ten years ago half the peloton went clean, a bunch of unrepentant dopers stomped on them in the hills and the UCI stood by cheering. This time they are standing up for the clean riders.
I disagree
The fact that exceptional performances are coming from dopers, who are standing head and shoulders above others, shows that in all likelihood more riders are clean.
In the past, there was little to choose between the performances of people who were presumed to be clean, and the people who were being caught. Ergo more likely that most people were on the juice.
This year, it was easy to pick Sella, RIcco, Piepoli, Schumacher and Kohl on the basis of their performance relative to everyone else.
I think that’s good news.
I agree
The fact that the dopers are scared to ride is a huge step forward. This CERA testing story must be scaring the piss out of them. Passports keep the cheaters from benefiting much while quick testing keeps the window of benefit small. There will always be cheaters, at least until Dan invents that Star Trek medical scanning thingy or Bruce lends the UCI his time machine. Even then, someone will use the holodeck to fuck things up
yes but
i take penfold’s point about it being disheartening. some progress seems to have been made, but i’m not ready to cheer just yet. the fact that riders still do this, even relatively young riders, suggests to me that the culture of doping, the mindset behind rationalizing it, has some changing to do…
whackamole
the sport was doing a decent job cleaning up a lot of old problems, but as they stamp out several old ones a new one or two pop up. clearly we’re not at the point where the peloton has been cleansed of temptation, so the battle to stay ahead of the cheats will continue. but that shouldn’t be an excuse to dismiss the important changes that have taken place: bio-passports, new agreements on testing, lots of crackdowns, etc…
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 13, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I should consider a career in the anti-doping business?
Whackamole was always my favourite part of going to amusementparks.
You’re right though about the popping up part, which is why I tend to get more enthusiastic about the longitudal testing than the “Hurrah! We found a test for the new wonderdrug” because apparently there will always be new wonderdrugs.
The good thing about the CERA-test is it probably scares the bejesus out of guys thinking they are sure to get away with it. Bordry’s statement about an upcoming bloodtransfusion-test is probably aimed at keeping people nervous and disencouraging hesitant potential dopers to take the leap.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Clearly...
Santuccione’s connections aren’t so good any more. As I understand it, he was Riccò’s source.
How Ricco met Santuccione
Ricco was first brought into contact with Santuccione by former team director Daniele Tortoli
Tortoli
I wasn’t familiar with the name, but digging around find that he was the DS of Grassi Marco Pantani, which was the amateur Under 23 team Ricco was on in 2004-2005. Apparently, Ricco kept in contact with Tortoli after he turned pro, because supposedly he first made contact with Santuccione in 2007.
what does it say about me
that I just don’t care? I mean, sure he tested positive, but I was never a fan so …
Today, I raced à la Chavanel, and I succeeded.
on the sunny side
at least we won’t be subjected to watching that goofy climbing style for at least 2 years
or those teeth.
Maybe he will have some free time for the dentist now.
Yep, rude = sorry.
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
by CannonDowell on Oct 13, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
did you notice the looks
on the podium girls faces? i felt for them…
in this day and age there doesn’t seem to be much justification for dentition like that when you’re pulling in a pro road cyclist’s salary…
Hey, I liked it.
In retrospect, though, it didn’t exactly look energy efficient. Which shoulda / coulda /oughta have been a tip off, I guess. But, shoot, he bounced kinda cutely.
last week's update
Last I saw, they were saying one or two more, down from the seven previously predicted.
Me, I dunno.
sorry, unclear
If last week’s prediction is right, Kohl may be the last, or there could be one more.
But… it’s hard to know for sure.
I think Bordry was suggesting one more, no?
And then we’ll have the IOC retests, which Jacque Rogge is saying may only be three or four weeks away. And then we’ll have the new AFLD blood test. With any luck, it’ll all be over by Christmas.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
yes, there were two
it’s all coming back to me now.
Bordry gave us two clues:
Rider X, who rode well in the mountains
Rider Y, who rode well in the mountains but didn’t make it to Paris.
C’mon down Bernhard Kohl and claim your 2 year suspension as Rider X.
So, we should within the next day or so, get one more positive, Rider Y.
eh....
Crap, now I’m remembering. These thingies are getting very confusing. You’re right it was the well-informed French journo on the CSC forum who said 2 more, with those characteristics. No way to confirm that info. It could be total crack-smoking for all I know.
Bordry hasn’t commented beyond saying that they were still testing.
Kohl is no doubt the “rider of a high level, but not a star” that Gazzetta referred to late last week as being the next positive, though they had the day of the announcement wrong.
So really, I have no idea how many more there may be. Anywhere from 0 to seven, would be my guess ;-)
40 to go
44-4=40. if we don’t get another 40 I’m sending letters of protest.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
"Rider Y, who rode well in the mountains but didn’t make it to Paris."
Sounds like Cobo to me. Any other candidates?
Now let's get Cobo
and call it a year. He’s the only out still out there who is seriously fishy to me. I think Frank Schleck was clean this year, though not maybe when he won Amstel. Voigt and Cancellara riding tempo in the mountains doesn’t bother me…
Wouldn’t it be strange if it turned out that Cobo was clean when he blew away the peloton in the Pyrenees with Piepoli. You have to consider the possibility…
Jens has done that year in and year out...
however Cancellara, setting tempo on the steeps could be seen as suspicious.
Like Biden (on SNL0 says, “I LOVE John McCain (insert Cancellara), but like my mother says "He’s a fricking time bomb!”
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
Like when? Bad memory is no excuse for allegations
Fabian set pace on the flat low percent ascents, no more no less.
1’st Mountain stage: he was dropped straight away as the team saved energy for the next day
2’nd Mountain stage: he hit the first mountain in a breakaway and dropped as soon as they hit the second mountain
3’rd Mountain stage: the first mountain was taken at a slow pace and he was quickly dropped on the final mountain
4’th Mountain stage: he had a rather short pull on a low % ascent
5’th Mountain stage: he was dropped but made it back using his phenomenal down hill skills and then pulled to Alpe d’Huez where he was dropped straight away
I bet your mom didn’t watch most of the Tour :p
For the record, I don't buy the "he rode abnormally well therefore he doped" for a second
but that description of Fabians ride is simply not accurate. On the Hautacam stage he got in the break then rode tempo for the most part while the others sat on. He then dropped back and went like a freighttrain the last part of the the Tourmalet-descent and the whole of the flat to the bottom of the Hautacam. On the Alpe d´Huez stage he and KAA rode the legs of most of the peloton on the Croix de Fer, Fabian on the lower slopes and Kurt after that.
That said I don’t see much wrong in the way he rode. Fabian showed already on the “Mur deHuy”-like stage in T-A that his climbing has improved . It’s also one thing to ride like a bat out of hell when you know your only mission is to go as far as you can and then wobble to the finish within the timelimit and one thing to do it day after day and stay with the leaders at all times. Jens , for example, clearly payed for his Tourmalet effort afterwards. Had he been riding GC he would have dropped like a stone in the following days, as would Fabian.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
I'm not saying he didn't climb well but it wasn't extraordinary either
Just look at the riders who were able to follow him and then still had energy to climb Alpe d’Huez, many of those aren’t seen as climbers either.
CSC Saxo Bank did isolate the competition but it was through the use of breakaway riders and the only time they used a train they hit the last mountain as a big group.
But unfortunately TV re-caps do not show that, making many believe the team had transformed into a bunch of mountain goats.
As you said, they went full out at key points and saved energy at points where the cameras were directed at other riders.
It was an extraordinary RIDE that included climbs,
whether or not it was extraordinary CLIMBING. I prefer to hope that it was clean (at least regarding EPO / blood boosting. Jury out on—ahem—legal vasodilators that should probably also be banned but through some oversight seemingly are not). But the last few times I thought that an effort was superb without being quite superhuman in the “easy escape” sense, the guys were in fact doping. Just not at a Pantani-level, or with quite the same afterburner effects.
At some point, if the level of doping agent is low enough, and the additional “pep” is borderline, none of us will be able to diagnose it for sure. But that’s actually not a bad problem to have.
Well fact still remains that:
- Fabian had rested the previous day where other riders gave full gas
- He was let go after the peleton after they had caught Popo(tactical error)
- Contraire to those in the peleton he had time to catch his breath after the mountain
- And most important, he did not make major pulls on the steep ascents at any stage.
It’s the same with the last iTT, onn the previous day which was one of the fastest stages he fell behind to save energy where as Schumacher was in yet a breakaway.
And at the Olympics Fabian gained time on the descents by cutting corners like a race driver(having the same gear setup, faster peddling wouldn’t help much). His raw power wasn’t on the level of Gustav Larsson’s.
When talking about doping the least we can’t only look at the final result, we also need to look at how it was achieved.
Here's one for you to translate, Gav
http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza.be/wielrennen/Tour_2008/verslagen_2008/1.397290
see the last para. Google gives:
At the world championships in Varese have been circulating a list bearing the names of 14 suspected riders. Marc Segeant: “I’ve also heard that when Kohl was it.”
“Meanwhile, some of which were already confirmed names, but most do not. Then you hope that Kohl is not there.”
“Now that hope is the ground ingeboord. Or even on that list names of Silence were: no. Also, no names of Belgians.”
Something about a list of 14 names doing the rounds at Varese. Is that the same sort of speculation that has been going round here or something a bit more definitive.
You should probably point this to Frinking being that he is Dutch
No doubt his translation would leave less to misinterpretation.
If I just had one more gear, I...
Something about a list of 14 names doing the rounds at Varese
That would be the Dutch list.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Holczer Speaks!
"I’ve just spoken to Bernhard Kohl on the phone, he admitted having been notified of his positive test for CERA. I’m very sad, I feel it’s now time for me to quit cycling."
Bye bye Hans. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
I spend a week
at my computer hitting refresh, and then the news hits while I’m in a staff meeting . Isn’t that always the way.. . .
Shout out to Gavia, who called this last week!!!
A little idle speculation but the roommate link was too much to ignore.
Also, I thought I saw a Kohl quote about Schoooooomi not being excited when the CERA test was announced. Gotta find that somewhere.
It was Sebastian Lang
with the story about Schumacher getting real quiet on the bus when others were celebrating the news that there was a new CERA test:
“When it was announced that there was a new test for CERA, we were all happy. We sat on the bus and really celebrated,” Lang told the Thueringer Allgemeine. “The whole team… except Stefan. He was suddenly very quiet and withdrawn.”
Schumacher was “suddenly totally changed. So we other riders got together and discussed it. Finally we and the team management openly asked him whether there was something we should worry about.” The response? “He just openly lied in our faces and said that everything was OK.”
That was the quote - thanks
coulda sworn it was Kohl though.
Where the hell would we be without the internet. Oh yeah, reading every last page of Winning 2 months after the race ended. Ahh those were the days.
The Kohl quote
was something about it not being right to go back after so much time, leave things be, riders’ rights violated, etc.
crashdan posted a translation of the Kohl interview
in the Schumacher positive thread. Follow the link, then search for Kohl.
My favorite line, in retrospect—Kohl talking about Austrian doping cases: “We definitely brought that on ourselves.”
and this part:
TT: Rumors are running around about the retesting of doping controls from this year’s Tour de France. You’re name may be abused by these rumors. Can you make a concrete statement?
Kohl: Actually it is a scandal that anyone will be produced from these tests. The WADA codes is completely clear: B-samples are frozen for an indefinite time and are allowed to be used later for scientific purposes. Some gentlemen would be well served to familiarize themselves with the WADA code. The lab doing the work shouldn’t even know whose sample they are working on. I find it unfair that we, the athletes, must provide notice of where we are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, while others won’t hold to the rules.
who else?
Who else put in a “surprising” performance, while we’re at it?
Who else, if a positive result comes back, would find us saying “hmmm ok that’s no surprise, he rode better than anyone expected!”?
GC list below.
-Greg
1 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Team CSC – Saxo Bank 87.52.52
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence – Lotto 0.58
3 Bernhard Kohl (Aut) Gerolsteiner 1.13
4 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 2.10
5 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Team Garmin-Chipotle p/b H30 3.05
6 Frank Schleck (Lux) Team CSC – Saxo Bank 4.28
7 Samuel Sanchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel – Euskadi 6.25
8 Kim Kirchen (Lux) Team Columbia 6.55
9 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d’Epargne 7.12
10 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) AG2R La Mondiale 9.05
11 Vladimir Efimkin (Rus) AG2R La Mondiale 9.55
12 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team CSC – Saxo Bank 11.32
13 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas 12.59
14 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française des Jeux 19.23
15 Amaël Moinard (Fra) Cofidis – Le Crédit par Téléphone 23.31
16 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel – Euskadi 23.40
17 Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team Columbia 24.55
18 Alexandre Botcharov (Rus) Crédit Agricole 27.11
19 Dmitriy Fofonov (Kaz) Crédit Agricole 28.31
20 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 28.33
going out on a limb but VDV was a shock...to most.
I hate to think it, but losing 4lbs does not turn you into a GT contender.
Other than Kohl – he was the only real shock in the top ten.
Let the virtual tomatoes start flying at me….
though on second thought...
it was perhaps less a shock and more unexpected. Kohl and Schumacher (TTs) were definite shocks.
The kids are always tough to assess.
Kreuziger—got to hope he’s clean. Mighty fast rise to the top ranks, though. And I can’t “read” his attitude at all.
Botcharov was not on my radar to be as good overall as he’s been this year, but that may be more about me than about him, looking at past results.
Suspecting Kirchen seems to be an occasional low-level sport here. Don’t know if it is just due to his very strong year and withdrawal from the worlds, or anything more specific.
There are other things
like him being part of the old T-Mobile system and having used Cechinni as doctor.
But he isn’t an out of the blue wonder and it’s hard, if not impossible to find a rider who in some way can’t be linked to suspicious names.
—————————
Quick question, didn’t Kim participate in Luxemburg’s national iTT back in 2005 where Andy won?
In case nobody hear has mentioned it...
That means that Christian Vandevelde is 4th!!!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
A good time to post this
-Now I wear the Maillot Pois
-But it suited me like a second skin
Gerolsteiner leaves cycling early
Holczer has announced the immediate end of the team, they won’t ride Lombardia (according to L’Equipe).
Good riddance.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
can you imagine the collective sighs of relief of the sponsors
that he almost had deals with?
Poor Gerolstiener – they almost made it out relatively unscathed. I know they had some positives, but nothing like this.
Good job by Levi...
… he got out of Gerolsteiner just in time!
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
Oh good Lord!
Been flitting around on the cafe for a good ten minutes now and have only just scrolled down and noticed this! Rumourage predicted it I know but this is so so sad. Another idiot bites the dust.
I won't say I won't watch next year
but my cynicism is reaching toxic levels. In this sport too good to be true almost always is.
Schumi’s performance was conspicuously good, but there were other performances in the Tour that arched my eyebrow a little. I had an internal debate like the one up above about CSC’s ride through the mountains as soon as I read this news.
I think the main problem the sport faces, is not dope or test programs, but that there is an endless supply of these idiots.
Simply put, ALL RIDERS should be treated with suspicion - but the sport is still beautiful to watch..
The riders themselves have made the bed they are in, even the clean ones with their code of silence.
No performance can be guaranteed clean. We have seen too many supposed clean performances brought back to believe otherwise.
Just because a team has controls and just because a rider seems like a decent guy does not preclude them as potential dopers.
Remember last year when people were saying that the new guard, the young riders were clean? The 3 biggest doping stories this year were from that “new guard”.
Woo-hoo--it's over!
No more positives coming, according to this AFP story (which gives its source as L’Equipe, but I don’t see it on L’Equipe’s web page yet). Kohl is supposedly the last.
Now, the wait begins for the blood-doping test…
Stuart O'Grady on Kohl's positive
“The results he got in the Tour de France, you never want to question the guys you’re racing against, but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t pretty surprised with the time trial he pulled out in the Tour and his performance overall,” O’Grady said.
“At the end of the day, you can’t make a donkey into a racehorse and when you see these guys, not come out of nowhere but come up and shock us all that have been out there for many years, you don’t want to put any guilt on them … but it’s just disheartening I guess,” O’Grady said.
well said by Stuey
love this part:
At the end of the day, you can’t make a donkey into a racehorse
ain’t it the truth in so many areas of life – now if only reality tv producers would realize this for once and for all…
Hmm, just realized
I’m a little slow sometimes. But the withdrawal of Gerolsteiner means no Rebellin at Lombardia. Shame, that.
Not for my VDS-team ;-) Podium baby!
But , ahem…. very disappointing certainly.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
lol
Well, he’s not my fave rider at all, but he does seem to be on very good form at the moment.
LOL, but really, I want Cunego to win it again :-)
Rebellin must be sorry to have lost the chance at another 2nd place.
They are, after all, a speciality of his.
bahahahahaha!
couldn’t have happened to a better rider. lol, of course, now the rebellin tifosi are all going to come out of the woodwork and punch me in the nose. but it was funny :-)
I have a story, and a bit of commentary on this one over at my site as well, but I don’t know if I will ever approach the level of coverage that Podium Cafe has, nice job.
http://www.cheatorbeat.com/bernhard-kohl-cera-doping/cycling/1378
Heard the news....
on local ABC radio when my alarm went off yesterday morning whilst still half asleep.
Ironically just the night before I’d been watching the SBS 2008 TDF highlights dvd (owing to not having seen much of it this year due to travel – an excuse but am still a tragic). BK got so much media attention…though often for the friggin bobbing action than much else.
Man o’ man. Still a bit blown over by it. Not surprised the team is dispanding. All the ethical stewardship of road kill.
Query why if there was enough to raise suspicions in the mind of the likes of O’Grady, why don’t prospective teams (ie, BLOTTO) hear the same warning bells? Or is it a case of “don’t ask – don’t tell”? The fact that they got as far as signing the guy makes them a bit iffy….or wiffy.
Kohl's holding a press conference
tomorrow (Thursday) morning in Vienna. He’s insisting he’s innocent.
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