Paris-Tours: Petacchi and LPR Out
by Jen See on Oct 4, 2008 12:55 PM EDT
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PrintThey were in, now they're out.
The ASO announced Friday that Petacchi and his LPR team are disinvited to Paris-Tour. The teams, Mitzubishi and Collstrop, have also been excluded. In their official press release, the ASO said, "The UCI has officially confirmed on Friday that these teams did not register with the blood passport program. We decided immediately not to keep them" in the race. The decision in part reflected a response to a threatened boycott by the other teams in the race, who did not want to compete against riders not part of the blood passport program. The race will include 22 teams, as the ASO does not plan to invite any replacements for the three.
The move comes hard on the heels of a change in leadership at the ASO, a change that in part reflected a desire by the Amaury family to end the warfare between the UCI and the ASO. Welcome to the new era of good feelings.
Source: l'equipe.fr.
Yes, I know, someone already posted this news also. But I felt it worthy of more than a comment buried in the Open Thread amongst the centaurs and such.
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I love Dutch/Flemish part 9999...
the sporza headline, “ASO schrapt het team van Petacchi”, apparently “schrapt” means deletes, but I prefer the image of LPR being rapped on the knuckles by the ASO…
Also applicable: "ASO schrapt het last hope van Crashdan"
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Two words...
… the last one is “You” and the first one isn’t “Thank”…
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
No sympathy for LPR here
they should have seen all year which way the wind was blowing. It’s a bit tougher for the guys on Mitsubishi as it looks like their team is folding at the end of the season and they won’t get any more chances to strut their stuff in front of the other team bosses. Both title sponsors are going, Mitsubishi and Jartazi (? whatever they do).
sooo,
the peace deal between UCI and ASO etc. didn’t actually go too well, otherwise Astana would be in this race, right?
You're not following the news
Lance is on Astana now. Nothing is bigger than Astana………. :-)
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
well, there ain't much left of 2008
so assuming there is a peace deal done, why was Astana left out of this race?
Nobody knows about 2009, and if Vino get’s onboard, I don’t think we’ll see Astana in too many races…
I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean
wasn’t the so-called UCI-ASO peace deal was done after the Tour.
The UCI-ASO war was never about Astana, it was (still is) about control, power and money. ASO, to flexed its muscles, chose to not invite Astana (due to many reasons) to all its races and basically slap UCI in the face. They had the perfect team to use for this, shady history and background with multiple doping infractions, a sponsor that was not well established in the cycling world (and probably not well connected) – basically a team that embarrassed twice ASO and cost them money, and a team that has always seemed to have a tight relationship with UCI. Double whammy.
I meant what McQuaid said during the Worlds,
that they have buried the hatched between the big race organizers, I somehow assumed that would also cover the Astana thing, obviously I was wrong about that. Surely the war is/was much more than about Astana, but
it just irks me that they are being left out again, despite (according to Belgium press) being allowed to participate.
Si...
Also, the peace deal doesn’t mean that the ASO concedes to everything the UCI wants. The ASO has throughout stood for autonomy in their choices of race invitations. I don’t see why they would concede that at this late date. They’ll invite who they want – they didn’t want Astana this year. To me what this decision simply signals good faith, and a willingness to collaborate. There was also the team boycott to consider. I don’t think the Amaury family wants to pay anymore for doping control the way they did for the Tour. Working with the UCI ends that burden – and the decision to exclude teams not on the passport program shows the collaboration on this issue, but not necessary all issues.
I think they made an announcement about the non-invite
regarding all the ASO races and they don’t want to go back on that. Also they always maintained it was a sort of probation where they reserved the right to wait this year and see if they behaved. I suppose they don’t want to (appear to?) abandon that position.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
What kind of silly talk is that?
My memory must be playing games with me because you do not seem to remember that Astana had enough doping convictions back in 2007 for it to be considered as organized. Caught red handed, not based on speculations.
Should that really be changed just because Johan moved to the team or that it adopted an anti doping program which so many have no faith in when it comes to team Long Name? An anti doping program which takes time to implement because it traces blood values over time.
ASO has unlike UCI sent out a strong message just like they’ve done this year with the unannounced use of CERA tests and re-tests(they made WADA look goofy).
The comment about it won’t be a French team is just annoying when you can’t mention a French team which is even close to Astana anno 2007. :p If any, the French have always been harder on their own riders which can be seen on their rigid national doping control and ASO having AG2R tested for CERA too(according to the press).
they made WADA look goofy
How? WADA developed the test. AFLD implemented it. Looks like close co-operation to my mind.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 4, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It may be my memory again
But I was rather confused by a Danish minister who also is a member of WADA, when he on Danish TV tried to take credit for CERA test which caught Ricco. Because at that time the word on the street was that WADA had not approved any CERA tests, yes the test existed but that’s not the same as using it. :)
Read the intereviews with Fahey, including the one where he misspoke and claimed they’d planted a magic molycule in it.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 5, 2008 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions
OctaBech, I wonder how you'd react if it was CSC
that was being left out. And that might very well happen next year, depending what comes out from the mess that is going on with the retesting….
It’s hard being a cycling fan these days, but we shouldn’t be throwing stones at each other, no matter which team/rider we pull for.
We all (I assume) hope for a clean sport(one can dream, right), and to have the best ones to race against each other in the biggest races, no?
My reaction wouldn't be any different had it been team Long Name
My beef is when someone want a rider/director/team excluded purely based on speculation, there must be enough incriminating evidence because the sports has had such a muddy past were almost all can be linked to something.
Now please correct me if mistaken, but to my knowledge ASO only enforced the “3 riders caught” rule where as UCI chose not to, because the riders were caught over the 2007 season instead of in one race.
It wasn’t speculation, there riders were caught red handed showing that the team either had organized doping or no control over its riders. Which means the team needs to be punished, scaring it and other teams so they’ll try to have more control over their riders in the future(some teams pull out of races to avoid this rule).
Let me ask you this, should a suspended rider get allowed to race again within a year, because he get a new trainer and join an anti doping program?
Just to clear things up:
- If Fränk Schleck doesn’t give full transparency with bank transactions and DNA tests then I’ll lose all faith in him(It would also be preferable if he mentioned names, but that would sadly cost him his future in the sport).
- If a team Long Name rider is caught using CERA or any other type of EPO I’ll lose my faith in Damsgaard and the UCI Biological Passport(which I have had very high hopes for), but I won’t only based on speculations from a Belgian newspaper or re-reports of its article.
- If more than one rider caught for the same type of doping I’ll lose my faith in the team and its new found anti doping values(which most likely used to be “we look the other way”).
The UCI Passport
I can accept a degree of faith in the inhouse Team Clean programmes, given how much testing they do but I’m wondering why you have so much faith in the UCI programme. Do you know how much OOC testing it actually does, once it settles down? Also, given the year that’s in it, and that the passport has been functional for most of the year now, don’t you think it should have claimed a couple of scalps by now?
Myself, I’m of the view that the best we can claim for the UCI passport is that it limits the amount of doping a rider can do, just like the h count limited use of EPO. There is no sanction for your parameters going crazy, save a fifteen day (I think) bout of gardening leave. Sure, they can target a rider who looks suspicious in the hope of getting him on the right day (and we all know how quickly most drugs leave the system) but given the cost of that, we can be pretty sure that that won’t last long and the rider will really only be tapered off the junk for a few weeks or so.
I do believe that the passport is a step forward. I just don’t have a lot of faith in its ability to spot and catch junkies.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 5, 2008 4:58 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I too have little faith in the UCI
The OP case didn’t in my eyes show how rotten the sport is as much as how hopeless ineffective UCI’s test are and the Rasmussen case showed how lenient or bureaucratic the system is.
Plus the voice from the critics saying that UCI sit on a pile of positive test but is too scared or has too big financial interest to go to court also really nags me.
The Biological Passport is far from perfect and it isn’t enough for the teams to rest on, but at least it’s a step in the right direction and can help give the undoped riders a chance to win too. 15 days is indeed not much but the rider can miss out on the big race he/she has been preparing for where as the usual tests wouldn’t even give a warning.
Yes it would be nice had the system been more rigid, but my real hope is that the sponsors will force the team to make use of independent anti doping agencies(preferably there will be 2 or 3 which compete to be the best; I do not like the idea of each team making its own) and that there’ll be even more transparency, making it possible to penalize riders without having to go through the circus the legal system has become.
Let me ask you this, should a suspended rider get allowed to race again within a year, because he get a new trainer and join an anti doping program?
depending on his/her suspension, if he/she tested positive for a diet pill, then yes, if for EPO or blood doping etc., no.
I’m very disappointed about the Fränk news, but the story he said about his payments to Fuentes, made me once again think that some riders think we fans are imbecille.
Well aren't you proving his point by wanting amnesty for Astana?
Fans are not a rational bunch. Some fans are even so irrational that they hope riders from competing teams are doped so they can get caught(not caught because they are doped).
Fränk is pleading to people who are trained not to get emotionally involved(the prosecution and the judge), his team and his sponsors.
The fans are mosy likely not going to change, most of those who liked him will continue to do so and those who hates him will… :)
amnesty for Astana?
I never asked for that!
People here can proove I took the Astana ban pretty well, no matter how unjust I felt it was.
I enjoyed every race this year, even the ones Astana was not invited, and was thrilled when Carlos won the Tour.
You seriously want me to believe Fränk paid while riding for CSC to a stranger 7000 euros for training advice???
come on… I’m not buying it.
But you want the ban taken down before it's a season old
and you did clearly slander ASO with your " yep, makes ASOsence.. wonder which team they’ll choose next year…….." not even bothering with the fact that ASO action was rational.
And when I pointed out why ASO did as they did, you attack me for being a biased CSC fan twisting the debate to be about Fänk, whom I BTW have been rather hard against on the official CSC forum during and after TdF.
But now that we are talking about Fränk, let try to get the facts:
The money were paid to an account of a façade company created by Fuentes. Neither of us know what kind of company this was but the prosecution does, and it would know if the training program story fit the description of the company.
€7000, now I’ve never doped and do not know how much that kind of money would buy me, but the word around says it’s hardly enough, especially when looking at the rumoured payments other riders made.
The prosecution has been given full transparency to Fränk’s bank transactions. So if other large amounts of money have disappeared they will most like investigate.
Fränk isn’t mentioned in the OP case, unless Ann Gripper is a liar. And to my knowledge he isn’t Spanish either.
If Fränk was Berillio’s friend would he then allow for the prosecution to perform a DNA test on the blood bag? He made the statement before the Fuentes verdict.
Looking at Fränk’s results they haven’t changed remarkably before or after OP. 05 – 08 have all been good years where he has made himself noticed.
Perhaps he had a doping doctor in reserve waiting to take over if Fuentes got nailed (j/k)
These are facts, not speculations and though I dislike the guy I’m not going to hang him without hard evidence. And I’m for sure not going to fool myself to think I know better than the prosecution which has all the details.
And now for the big question is Fränk dumb for thinking we’ll believe him?
That most made up their minds before even having heard(read a quick recap of) his testimony and even forget to include facts like him giving access to DNA testing makes it pointless for him to even bother.
What’s important is his future in the sport. If admitted guilty Fränk would be suspended for two years. If innocent he still wouldn’t be able to name names because he’d end up as JJ.
Fränk has no other option than the one he has taken, what irrational cycling fans think is the least of his worries, right now it’s about providing enough evidence to clear his name without stepping on anyone/breaking dirty unwritten rules(which JJ’s case sadly made clear still exist in the sport).
If anyone feel a need to argue my view on Fränk’s case, then let’s continue the debate in the thread where it belong. :D
the story he said about his payments to Fuentes, made me once again think that some riders think we fans are imbecille.
serious question: suppose the press release isn’t really meant for cycling fans, but for bank customers? For me, the whole exercise of suspending him at the end of the season reeks of reaching out to the non-cycling fans and a way of appeasing Saxo Bank’s PR dept.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 5, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You have a point
FS was in Denmark yesterday visiting sponsors and explaining his actions. Sort of strange but it does indicate that some handholding is necessary to maintain a level of trust from the new sponsors.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
except
7k euros would be about 2 months worth of a top-level “program.”
Shoot, I think that would by me a year’s worth of Carmichael coaching . . .
So . . . unless more transactions surface, I think what we have evidence of is the initial retainer fee. Perhaps what happened with TH spooked him. . . And perhaps the "Amigo de Birillo: bag is for initial analysis. And perhaps magic ponies will sprout fro the end of this post . . .
Lionel Birnie in the Comic ...
… is really going to enjoy this, after what he said about Pettachi and the ToB.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Ok... two points...
1) What frickin’ episode of Gossip did I miss that had $%!@&!! leaving Milram and going to LPR? Guess I was too busy wishing I was a four hooved Dude in a hell of boiling oil.
2) $%!@&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frickin’ VDS. I hate this game.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
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