Schumacher Positive: Tour de France

right there with ya.

Heartily I wouldn’t wonder!

that is good :-)

interestingly, radsport-news doesn’t have either of these stories up yet.

and gazzetta is now frantically re-editing their piepoli story to add schumacher. entertaining to watch how fast everyone can edit…

credit where credit is due. In truth, all we knew then was that he hadn’t been flagged, despite an outlier performance. I guess a lot of people’s first reaction to suspicions is resistance, if only because we don’t wish to have that conversation again. But Schumi… there were flags.

there were plenty of others that shared your skepticism.

so far it has been undetectable in the riders and directors.

is why can’t I sue them for VDS points lost?

is hard to prove.

but in the US, you have to “standing” to sue another person/entity. Part of this concept is that one cannot have a generalized greivance, and must be harmed in a “different” way than the rest of society. All of the other riders are all harmed in the same way, i.e., the sport in general suffers. The most common example is that a taxpayer has no standing to sue the government for waste, because he/she suffers the same harm as every other taxpayer. It is a constitutional policy aimed at decreasing litigation. At least, this is what I would argue if I represented a doper. ~:-)

although in fact I think you mean who were “caught” doping

as any answer seems (sadly) understated

It means that of the Tour’s 21 stages, five were won by riders who have subsequently tested positive. They were stages four and 20 (Schumacher at Cholet and Saint-Armand), stages six and nine (Ricco at Super-Besse and Bagneres-de-Bigorre) and stage 10 (Piepoli at Hautacam).

h/t to CW for doing my research for me.

Stage 4: Shumi dopes, Kirchen wins stage and yellow jersey (David Millar has same time as Kirchen). Due to the dopin, Kirchen gets two more days in yellow than planned. He would take over on Stage 6.

Stage 6: Ricco dopes. Valverde wins

Stage 9: Ricco dopes. V. Efimkin wins the stage

Stage 10: Piepoli dopes. Cobo wins shoe drops. F. Schleck wins shoe may drop? B. Kohl wins.

Stage 20: Shumi dopes. Fabian wins stage.

if one considers Schleck as he played a huge role in Sastre’s victory

“we are glad the dopers are getting caught and we are finally cleaning it up”

or some such nonsense. blahhh

that nobody in my workplace follows cycling and is likely to ever hear about Piepoli or Schumacher.

Sure … US sports like football and baseball have gloried in their denial of drugs

No answer for you ….. but let me clear what I really like about cycling: MY RIDES …. By that I mean participating.

I am in awe of the Tour guys …. but more in awe of my little wife climbing Alpe d’Huez in a heavy touring bike.

And all dopers piss me off as much as the do you. Fuck

Wow, going for the sympathy hug. Classy guy.

While I’m not trying to marginalize doping in cycling, I kind of believe that the stuff cyclists are doing would look like little league bull malarky compared to say, oh, pro football, baseball, etc.

I haven’t been able to find anyone to hold me so I think I’ll just start drinking.
Heavily.

Cancel all your meetings. Ignore the phone. Put on your centaur costume and head for Venice.

and by someone I mean Sarah Duester or Christiane Soeder…

ummm can I have a crack at the one that you decide you want to pass on? :D

Holczer told SID: “The director of the Tour, Christian Prudhomme, has confirmed it and I have no doubt that it (Schumacher’s positive test) is true.”

He was the heard muttering…

Have we sold that team bus already? Dammit….

Eurosport has a pretty funny pic too

Since the 1904 Tour, the results have effectively been provisional.

Just trying to read up tonight is enough for me.

Dan might get some laughs from this… the doc called what I have – labyrinthitis. I can only say that this is like the worst hang over ever. Everything spins, totally dizzy, and the topper is the loss of balance. I am all for a hang over like this, but who was so damn mean in creating it with out letting me enjoy the party first?

…all three of the first three retests were positive. We were told to expect the other results by the end of this week. Advice? Don’t look up.

“According to the Dutch newspaper Gazet van Antwerpen five teams are implicated. The paper alleged last week that two are at the forefront of the fight against doping, running internal anti-doping programmes.”

http://pro.corbis.com/images/CB067871.jpg?size=572&uid=7B82B80F68-0AC8-482A-A3DE-B576FD2B885E7D

..I read quite a lot about this broadcast on the French forums but just now had a chance to see it.

First part was a couple of sport doc and DS wondering:
1/ If we were not coming back to the old era of sprinters (read Hincapie) leadind the train up to the top of the mountains. This was directly concerning Cancel and Voigt.
Both of them in great shape and having clearly stated their ambition for the world. Also noting that both of them DNS for the WRR within days of the race.
2/The F. Schelck perf at l’Alpe seemed very suspicious to the doc. Huge power here at the end of a tough stage.

Kim Andersen (CSC assistant) told the journalists “Doping at CSC? plain impossible. We’re not scared”
IMO, the funny part of the interview. lol.

After that Bordry denied all the names (Cobo, both Schleck, Cancel, Voigt, Arvesen, O’Grady, Kirchen, Piepoli and Schumacher, lol again), BUT he also said that for the sake of fair tests, since the samples were # and not names…he could not say more. His (implied, not said) PoV was that the fact of revealing who were the riders under suspiscion might create a legal vice toward the lab people. At this point the journalist came back to Bordry’s statement that some riders not showing up for the WRR would not sleep well. He asked him if it was concerning Cancel, Kirchen, and Voigt. No answer and a bit red in the face, the head of the AFLD.

Bordry explained that the riders with abnormal blood values were told before the TDF to consult their doc because the values were abnormal and they might be sick (lol a lil’ bit again). That was a good point, he made sure to let them know that he understand that it might be some kind of illness but he also told them that they would be under special scrutiny during the TDF.

The most interesting part of the interview IMO was the following.
It seems like the Lausanne lab (UCI) was doing the same kind of research on the new CERA’s blood test and came out with a reliable test at the same time than Chatenay-Malabry. So in fact BOTH LAB have a CERA’s blood test using the same criteria but slightly different in the procedure.
The most intriguing was that for a rider to be declared positive, THE SAMPLE HAS TO BE POSITIVE AT BOTH LAB. In other word if a positive shows up in France and not in Switzerland (or the other way around), it will be a negative. It has to be both.

Finally, he got a bit mad at the bold guy (French secretary of the sports) regarding the Bio passport. “How come Ricco and Beltran, that were supposed to have had 6 blood test for the passport slipped through the net? They were part of teams having signed the agreement”.
That seems a bit odd to see HIM saying that, he MUST know that the all thing desintagrated for this year. IMO, he wanted to have a statement on record from the Secretary regarding the passport.

He also stated that he would personally contact each and every positive to let them know.

On a more personal note, I found pretty funny to see the main TDF journalist st F2 (JR Goddard) wearing the yellow wristband. He clearly stated in the past that he knows for a fact (ha, what’s new) that Armstrong was jacked to the bones when he won the races.
I understand now why the French forums bashed the journalist so much. The guy is a DH anyway. Nothing to do at that place.

Long post, sorry about that.

the tests are not over yet

Which means we’re due one more positive pronto. I haven’t seen it yet, though I got me some guesses ;-)

The second wave should be later this week, if all the pre-publicity is correct.

Schumacher was, for me, one of the long overdues.

AFLD were the ones that came up with the pre-tests and occasional blood tests to supplement the piss test.

Pathetic when you think about the UCI’s vocal stance against doping – usurped by a national federation.

I hope this isn’t creative licence after the event on the part of Herr Lang though!

CN is saying he same thing… Telling quotes there.

… we and the team management openly asked him whether there was something we should worry about." The response? “He just openly lied in our faces and said that everything was OK.” …

Essentially as follows…

TT.com: Is it true that you almost became a Tirolean?
Kohl: My personal trainer, Werner Zanier, is from Lienz so I thought it would be practical to live close by. In the long run it didn’t work out though because of traffic problems and because the nearest airport is half an eternity away from Lienz.

TT: The season is over, when will it start up again?
Kohl: Starting from in the middle of November, I will only have one goal: the Tour de France. I’ll put some time in with coaches, but in the end, you have to lay the foundation by yourself in the winter. A lot of personal responsibility is required. I’m not going to rely so much on a strict training plan though, so much as I’ll rely on my gut and how my body feels. Anyway, as soon as the first snows hit, I’m going to be going cross country skiing.

TT: How much does a professional bike racer have to be able to suffer?
Kohl: There are always moments when you think to yourself “Why am I trying to pull this shit?” [Was mache ich denn für einen Scheiß? It’s a German idiom, sorta hard to translate directly]. When you’re training in the rain at 4ºc for hours, you look around and ask yourself whether it makes any sense. But as soon as you’re standing under a warm shower, all of that is forgotten.

TT: With Lance Armstrong, an old face is returning to racing. How do you feel about that?
Kohl: It would be an honor to compete with him in the Tour. I’m inclined to think he can win the Tour again. He never stopped training.

[Not to sure about this next question and the response. It’s an Austrian talking to an Austrian and I’m not entirely sure about the phrasing. For instance, the question is literally translated as “Will they lay cat-o-nine-tails on his route: keyword ‘old doping controls’? Or does he provoke the theme?” ]
TT: Will they lay obstacles in his [Armstrong’s] path: meaning old doping allegations? Or does he provoke it himself?
Kohl: To speak honestly – and I hear this from the fans on the road – the topic is overblown.

TT: Rumors are running around about the retesting of doping controls from this year’s Tour de France. You’re name may be abused by these rumors. Can you make a concrete statement?
Kohl: Actually it is a scandal that anyone will be produced from these tests. The WADA codes is completely clear: B-samples are frozen for an indefinite time and are allowed to be used later for scientific purposes. Some gentlemen would be well served to familiarize themselves with the WADA code. The lab doing the work shouldn’t even know whose sample they are working on. I find it unfair that we, the athletes, must provide notice of where we are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, while others won’t hold to the rules.

[This whole next question is a mess of official and formal German language that I’m not at all familiar with… but I think I’ve got the taste and color of the response correct]
TT: What does the WADA Code have to say about this?
Kohl: Well, in this specific case, of course they can retest; an athlete gives up any rights when he hands over his blood or his urine, and that might lead to conviction, even if they find something [joking?]. It’s ok with me if they test and retest my controls, my problem is more with the principle of the thing and watching my sport get dragged-through-the-mud.

TT: Austria has been criticized as a “Land of Dopers”. Do we only have ourselves to blame?
Kohl: I don’t think Austria is any better or worse than any others. However, there was a lot of damage after the last two winter games. We definitely brought that on ourselves. The fact is, that we do a lot of testing and we have a lab in Seibersdorf that is always at the forefront [of testing methods?].

Compare the number of doping cases in Olympic cycling with, say, weightlifting. Hell, cross-country skiing has had more athletes pipped for doping.

Sounds like a bit of an overreaction to me.