Team Testing's Proper Place
While the doping accusations against Leonardo Piepoli are suprising only in that they didn't happen sooner, two other recent stories have struck a blow against one of Cycling's recent, positive narratives. Frank Schleck's entanglements with Eufemiano Fuentes and Operacion Puerto have undermined Bjarne Riis' clean-team mantra, and today's announcement that Stefan Schumacher was on CERA at the Tour has sent Gerolsteiner manager Hans-Michael Holczer off on another -- and for once quite understandable -- tirade.
Not good times, of course: the implication is that if it can happen at Gerolsteiner or CSC, then perhaps there's no stopping cheating after all. But IMHO it's time for the "clean teams" mentality to change. Undoubtedly, teams which announce a bevvy of internal controls, contractual penalties, and otherwise an open insistence on their riders behaving properly is a great benefit to the sport. There is still something to be said for leadership. But I wonder whether there's anything more to a "clean team" besides leadership?
The threat-of-the-month is CERA, a low-dose EPO variant only recently discovered in sports circles. With the sport officially trying to clean up its act, the usual ways of cheating are far too well known and reviled for serious riders to pull off. If you're intent on cheating, the only way to go is with whatever new methods are emerging, that the anti-doping forces haven't caught onto yet. Stay one step ahead of the sport... or don't even bother trying.
A loose federation of teams with their own internal controls is exactly the wrong way to deal with emerging doping methods. Staying ahead of the curve requires resources. I'm not an MBA, but surely there's some sort of principle about R&D requiring investment and pooling resources. Dispersed efforts at research, uncoordinated and on the cheap, sounds inherently ineffective. So when CERA comes along, obviously even the best teams aren't going to be the first ones on the block to have the new CERA test.
Sorry to dredge this up again, but let's walk back to the first Podium Cafe Anti-Doping Manifesto:
Instead of always trying to keep up with the Ferraris and Cecchinis, here's a radical idea: hire one of them!! Why should the UCI always be the last to hear about new doping techniques? Let bygones be, and get a real expert on staff. ... [embarassing material deleted]... Anyway, in addition to staying on top of the doping R&D, presumably this guy could oversee a lot of the testing too, or at least be a consultant. And I'm not merely advocating hiring one doc; a panel of them may be needed.
It's hard to trace the sources on old posts when I didn't provide adequate links, but apparently a group of doctors are forming an association to at least talk about new ideas. Not sure where that stands. But in any event, a centralized anti-doping authority, with full independence and some measure of integrity, has a far better chance of coming up with a new CERA test than, say, Holczer's staff MDs.
As for what internal controls do, let's revisit another old 2006 post: when Bob Stapleton invented the new team concept and won me as a fan. I hypothesized (putting it kindly) that there were at least three potential benefits to internal testing and increased training coordination:
- It physically prevents riders from working with a doping doctor... if you're training with Dr. X, you're not training with Dr. Y. No longer will their riders be associated with shady characters on an extensive basis. Remember, the doping doctors have not only been dispensing products but often working closely with riders throughout the season, so the whole meds/training program works in synch.
- It creates a much tighter system of internal surveillance, which if done right should be virtually foolproof (you'd think).
- It creates a HUGE psychological barrier against doping! I'm really going way beyond my knowledge and experience here, but it seems like it's infinitely easier for a rider who trains alone or in small groups to give in to doping than it would be when you're more closely connected. Wouldn't you find it much harder to go against a closely-knit system, which all of your teammates have bought into, than the old "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement?
First one: meh. Maybe on some teams riders are sequestered away from the doping docs, but if you can cheat on GerolsteinerCSC, you can cheat anywhere.
Second one: this is the benefit we keep reading about: riders' blood values are recorder and stored away, or sometimes even published online. We're basically talking about longitudinal testing. This is a huge key to interdiction, and though the UCI wants to do it for everyone, there's no reason the teams can't pitch in. Even redundant checking is of value.
Third one: naivete. My guess is that the T-Mobile/High Road/Columbia experiment is working to forge more interdependence, the kind of shared commitment that might deter doping. But again, if you can cheat on Gerol... or worse, CSC, then this is more of a soft deterrent, valuable but not reliable.
There is one last team-imposed deterrent: contractual obligations. The standard fired-if-caught method is pretty universal nowadays, but for some reason it doesn't seem to stop anyone. Perhaps cheaters don't ever expect to be caught, or assume they'll make more money on the juice beforehand for it to be worthwhile. Depending on what the applicable legal system allows, it's possible for teams to include in contracts some sort of liquidated damages, i.e. specific penalties to be paid to the team for, oh, defaming the team brand. With Astana kicked out of the Tour because of its defamed brand, such damages wouldn't seem ridiculous to a judge. If anyone knows what sort of penalties teams are putting in contracts these days, do tell.
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Comments
Gerolsteiner
I’m a tad confused as to why this – the Schumacher positive – is a strike against the clean teams. Since when did Gerolsteiner have an internal testing program? My impression was that Holczer talked clean – who doesnt’? – but there were no checks on the riders specifically. For my part, I have never considered them an especially clean team, by any means, so the Schumacher positive is for me just another positive, and one that I had expected for some time now, or maybe more accurately, believed was deserved for some time now.
As for Schlecky, if his story ends with Puerto, it’s a problem for him and for his credibility. But for the credibility of CSC’s testing? Since it didn’t yet exist in 2006, probably not, especially when the UCI passed Basso with flying colors. What it does say is just “talking clean” isn’t enough – that some riders will follow that lead, but others may still be tempted to cheat, especially in the days before Puerto scared at least a few more would-be dopers clean. Was Schleck among them? Did he pay Fuentes, then abandon the idea as he claimed? Impossible to know for sure, until or unless more evidence becomes public.
If Schlecky or any other CSC rider tests positive for CERA, that’s a problem – because it means that the blood monitoring isn’t sensitive enough to catch the variations that CERA doping caused. That would be a surprise – and I’m curious to hear what Dams would say in this event. I’d also like to know more about what the French found anamolous among the CSC riders, and how, if at all, Dams would explain it. Bordry is already asking how Riccò ever made it through the UCI’s blood passport system, since the French testing quickly found an anamoly. Does he – and others – feel the same about the CSC testing program? I guess we’ll see soon enough.
I don’t think internal testing is the end-all be-all by any means. I don’t expect ACE or Dams to catch everything – I expect them to make it harder to use doping and to offer a clear signal from the team that the past is past, and doping is now, at long last, wrong. So, I suppose it won’t be a huge shock for me should a rider from one of the “testing regime” teams test positive. I already have a few doubts about some of their performances as it is.
In the end, it’s up the individual to make the right choice. The teams and the sport as a whole can make the choice easier – by having strong controls and making it clear that doping is unacceptable – or make it harder by looking the other way and celebrating the accomplishments of those who have crossed the line.
by gavia on Oct 6, 2008 6:43 PM EDT 0 recs
Gerol
It was all talk? Well, I suppose my main point is that teams can’t get on the cutting edge by themselves… particularly if they’re just bullshitting.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 6, 2008 6:59 PM EDT
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lol, well, for me it was ;-)
But yes, I agree that it needs to be a collaborative effort. On that note, I liked that the doping expert guys got together after the Giro to sort out the CERA thing. A good sign. I hope the targetted testing in the way that the LLND carried it out continues and becomes more widely used elsewhere.
by gavia on
Oct 6, 2008 7:23 PM EDT
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For me too. Holczer was just someone who liked to criticise everyone else and all the while refused to look to closely at what was going on under his own nose. For me, Gerolsteiner had been a dirty team for years and never a Team Clean.
Also, there’s a piece on some French site, will dig it out if I can find it, claiming one of the teams signed up to the Gerolsteiner anti-doping policy (which supposedly bands the use of some drugs, even with a TUE) broke the rules in the Vuelta and the evidence comes fromt e forms declaring drugs being imported into the country.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 7, 2008 5:30 AM EDT
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by the way...
meant to add, so dig when you show up with the analysis post :-)
by gavia on
Oct 6, 2008 7:24 PM EDT
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Analysis
It’s all I have left. By the time I finish making DS Little Bear’s apple juice latte in the morning, the news is already posted.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 6, 2008 7:33 PM EDT
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apple juice latte, ha!
lol, ds little bear gets all the perks.
eh, posting news is the easy part. a trained monkey can do that.
by gavia on
Oct 6, 2008 7:40 PM EDT
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"...and doping is now, at long last, wrong."
Nice line, gavia. I am wondering though that the bulk of the riders really really do not see it that way. At all. That all of the optimism that doping is going away is misplaced.
But then reform has to start somewhere, right? Individual teams, individual riders, individual race owners: hit and miss at first, until they team up in a comprehensive effort. We aren’t at that “comprehensive effort” stage yet though as you note figuring out CERA is a step in the right direction. But if they’ve found CERA, what haven’t they found?
I just think now that doping is much further imbedded into the sport than we (I) want to believe. But I still love it.
by ursula on
Oct 6, 2008 7:31 PM EDT
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The problem seems to be...
you have foxes guarding the hen-houses so to say.
What the sport needs to do is get rid of the Riis’s and LeFevere’s and Bruyneel’s of the cycling world.
Bring more people in like Bob Stapleton and Doug Ellis!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on
Oct 6, 2008 7:35 PM EDT
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I'm getting around to your point of view
I always thought that a reformed doper would stand the greatest chance of seeing the signs of wrongdoing in his own teamriders but the Tyler-Basso- (Schleck?) string of f***-ups seems to prove that theory wrong.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on
Oct 7, 2008 1:31 AM EDT
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Some of the biggest organized doping cases had SDs who never had been riders.
Bob Stapleton only provide the money, the Columbia team still use a big portion of the old T-Mobile infrastructure.
Just look at Columbia’s TdF SD, a good ol’ Dane who rode with Riis and admitted doping, who also was SD back in the 2007 TdF where the reformed T-Mobile was hit by several doping cases in a row which the team’s own anti doping program had missed.
And as Gavia noted, we must not forget that the Basso and Schleck cases arfe from before the aggressive anti doping program. Tyler rode for Phonak which had a wave of doping cases(was this team created by an old doper? I do not remember).
I’d also note that JJ has stated CSC never had any direct involvement with doping, his accusation was that the team closed its eyes.
Yes the team’s front figure, Riis, admitted doping and the team has had a muddy past with OP, but that’s exactly why it more than any other team is forced to do something.
There is no other team sponsored anti doping program run by a know critic, the no other program which is living up to the WADA/UCI standards(the teams use uncertified health programs) and there’s no other anti doping program which is performed by WADA labs where the results are sent to the UCI before the team.
I’m just saying that if the big pressure on the team and Damsgaard’s rigid anti doping program isn’t enough, then there’s little hope the more lenient programs, even when the team use a rich man as front figure. :D
Oh noes, I’m running late.
by OctaBech on
Oct 7, 2008 2:37 AM EDT
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Stapleton
didn’t he devise the entire team controls plan before the last year of T-Mobile? I’d thought they were his ideas.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 7, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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Depends
At the moment, the sport is very much at a crossroads, where you do have riders who see doping as cheating who want nothing to do with it. At the same time, there are many who want to game the system or who continue to see it as “what one does.” A lot depends on the teams where a rider gets his start and the attitudes of where he signs on. A lot also depends, I think, on how desperate a rider feels for results – I think there are plenty of “just this once I need a result” dopers at this point. Simeoni, in an interview a year or so ago, said that during the ’90s, EPO was cheap and readily available and everyone did it. As the doping controls have gotten tighter, the riders with big salaries can set up dealios like Fuentes, while the rest either risk positives or ride clean. He said that while some big stars continue to cheat that the bunch as a whole is getting cleaner. A number of observers – who have no reason to pull their punches – are saying some of the same things.
Me, I think it’s better than it was, but still there’s a long way to go.
by gavia on
Oct 6, 2008 7:36 PM EDT
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auch erinnerin sie sich
that g-stein was stopping and that riders might have felt a bit of pressure to produce . . .
by R Mc on
Oct 6, 2008 7:37 PM EDT
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ja
Good point. But I don’t think Schumacher was a virgin.
by gavia on
Oct 6, 2008 7:38 PM EDT
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Right
Teams can talk tough on doping in winter, when the slate is still clean.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 6, 2008 7:43 PM EDT
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I think in the Schleck case
the outcome for CSC will depend on who referred Schleck to Fuentes. I can think of three plausible people: Basso; Cecchini; and (bad for CSC) Riis himself as has been alleged. If it is Basso or someone like Cesshini then I think CSCSaxo-bank will be OK – Riis banned outside coaches after Puerto so has tried to close down that pathway. For Schleck though – I can’t imagine a scenario where he didn’t have a good idea what Fuentes was up to . . . so he didn’t go through with it (so he claims) but he still went a long way down that path.
As for the CERA testing by Damsgaard – I think he can pick it up in a regular EPO test – not to WADA standard; but do you recall the reports that the italians noticed somehting in their giro tests that had them scrathing their heads? I think Damsgaard has said previously that many undetectable (by WADA) EPO variants do show up in the regular tests, but WADA doesn’t regard those results to be sufficient to prosecute. But he would – probably in the same was as the Gusev firing . . . fired but not subsequently prosecuted.
by Rothko on
Oct 6, 2008 7:47 PM EDT
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As much as I love him...
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Cancellara enmeshed in this situation.
Some of his performances at this year’s TdF raised eyebrows in the same manner as Schumi.
The problem is that while Riis talks clean cycling and so on, how do you know it is actually the truth?
We all know that you are only a doper if you caught. And if you expect sympathy from your fellow dopers in the peloton, be prepared to be thrown under the bus, effective immediately!
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on Oct 6, 2008 7:33 PM EDT 0 recs
For what it's worth, Damsgaard does a LOT of testing for CSC
Much more than the UCI does for their biological passports. One of the interesting things that Thomas Dekker said when he was fighting the “anomalous blood value” rumors was that he’d been tested exactly twice out of competition this year, once in February and once in May. That’s no way to set up a baseline for normal values.
Compare that to what Christian Vande Velde wrote during last year’s Tour:
I have been controlled on 13 different occasions this year from our team alone. They look for everything from blood transfusions, EPO, testosterone, HGH, reticulocytes… you name it.
Does it work? That’s another question. I guess we’ll have to wait and see if any CSC riders actually test positive.
by majope on
Oct 6, 2008 7:47 PM EDT
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From CN
Holczer criticised the internal testing carried out by teams such as Team CSC-Saxo Bank, Garmin Chipotle – H30 and Team Columbia. He stated it is unable to detect CERA and it helps riders avoid controls.
“You would not have found CERA with an internal test,” he said. “I am still convinced that internal tests are the first steps for cheating. It does not help.”
by ursula on
Oct 6, 2008 9:29 PM EDT
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I agree
Internal testing is not new – all teams have years of experience doing it.
its the transparency that is new.
by humbug1 on
Oct 7, 2008 3:36 AM EDT
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If the doctor responsible for assisting in this was simply arrested and convicted of malpractice, this would quickly go away.
The rider gets stuffed, the team the rider was on often folds, the sponsors loose millions that have been invested in marketing, but what happens to the doctor who assisted in this?
Nadda.
A short definition of malpractice is " The breach by a member of a profession of either a standard of care or a standard of conduct."
I’d bet if you start putting a few of these doctors in jail, or placing huge fines on their assistance with the illegal use of prescribed medication and there would sure be a lot fewer coming up with new ideas on how to use drugs in order to enhance performance.
by Ryan_Liles on Oct 6, 2008 7:56 PM EDT 0 recs
they're trying
In Italy, they are trying. See also, the Ferrari case. It seems harder to prove that it appears, though, that the doctor actually gave a rider doping products. I think the Diluca case made that pretty clear.
by gavia on
Oct 6, 2008 7:57 PM EDT
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In the US this would be very simple, though this has not been performed here either.
Who was the doctor who assisted Marion Jones?
That person should be banned from medicine and possibly even given a sizable financial penalty; or even jail time.
The sooner that starts happening, this will get cleaned a lot faster then taking down every junkyjock that gets popped.
Well, that’s my opinion as a more effective way to manage this issue.
by Ryan_Liles on
Oct 7, 2008 12:34 AM EDT
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Off Topic...
Why does Sarah Palin remind me of Peggy Hill?
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on Oct 6, 2008 8:07 PM EDT 0 recs
Grinding wheel: axe
1. The incentives built into the WADA doping-control system are all wrong. The internal-testing teams strike a better balance: you suffer the stigma of the suspicious firing, and the entire market is forewarned.
2. Central control is precisely the wrong prescription. Look how poorly the fans were served when the UCI ran the controls without competition. Now we have ACE, Damsgaad, WADA/UCI, and the French. Multiple actors competing for a solution is the natural way to solve a knowledge problem, and figuring out how riders like Rasmussen operate is the very definition of a knowledge problem.
3. Gerolsteiner was a disaster waiting to happen. A boss who couldn’t keep a sponsor, and who talked tough about doping without doing anything about it. How was a rider to escape the impending implosion of the team and land a contract? Schumi decided that Paris was well worth a Mass.
by Softie on Oct 6, 2008 11:03 PM EDT 0 recs
central control
would work if the controllers were more serious. The UCI has proven itself the wrong place to do it, because of their political battles on other fronts. There’s also Verbruggen, Mr. Anything-under-50%-goes, dragging their credibility straight down, until just recently. I’d originally thought the UCI should have the central authority, but now I think maybe we need to start fresh and put Anne Gripper in charge of a new commission, either an independent one or a coalition of various serious forces: CONI, AFLD, USADA, etc. And make the UCI answerable to them, not the other way around.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 7, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
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Convicted Dopers should get sued for damages
As you mention at the end of your analysis, why can’t Teams sue convicted Dopers for damages to their Brand.
And as I posted somewhere else, why can’t ANY rider sue a doper who wins? As the doper has taken wages and winnings away from clean riders.
For example the official Tour de France site still has Ricco as the winner of Stage 6 (and stage 9) in the 2008 Tour.
Anyone remember who came second? Valverde in stage 6 ….. and it seems clear that Valverde has suffered some form of damage at having one less stage win on his resume.
by cyclingchallenge on Oct 7, 2008 4:07 AM EDT 0 recs
why can’t Teams sue convicted Dopers for damages to their Brand.
Prolong the damage with a court case? Not a good move.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 7, 2008 5:43 AM EDT
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Right
Putting a clause in the contract to address it removes the protracted litigation (in theory). You sign up for a contract where you promise to pay $x if you damage the team with a doping infraction… or you don’t sign.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 7, 2008 1:24 PM EDT
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UCI
The UCI is already demanding a year’s salary in the event of doping infractions. No word yet if they are going to enforce that agreement in the current cases.
by gavia on
Oct 7, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
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Do they apply to the current case? They’re enforcing it for peeps who signed a partic letter agreeing to it. Has everyone by default agreed to it this year?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 7, 2008 2:54 PM EDT
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A loose federation of teams with their own internal controls is exactly the wrong way to deal with emerging doping methods.
Not sure you’re right on that one. Let’s look at the current situation. What teams are doing internal controls?
Cervélo do them for their women’s team, and it’s understood they’ll be useing the same test for their men’s team. It’s a small porgamme run out of the UCI lab in Switzerland.
Rock Racing claimed to have a programme, developed by the guy who left ACE to defend Landis.
Garmin and Columbia both use ACE.
CSC and Astana both use Damsgaard.
And LA is also signing up to Catlin.
Let’s look at ACE a moment. Who’s signed up to oversee ACE? Why Don Catlin. Already we are seeing a degree of consolidation within the market. What we need to see are more teams signing up to these programmes. As they do, that makes the programmes more financially secure. Can they develop new tests? Some can. And some can pass on knowledge acquired to state-funded labs better suited to developing new tests.
At the top of the Team Clean pyramid, this isn’t a loose federation. It’s a concentration of the market.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 7, 2008 5:41 AM EDT 0 recs
isn't Catlin no longer with ACE? I thought I read that somewhere, but could be wrong
by lyne on
Oct 7, 2008 10:59 AM EDT
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found it... Catlin does not work for ACE
he leads the Anti-Doping Sciences Institute, Inc – he is the Founder and former Director of the UCLA Olympic Analytical Laboratory and now an emeritus professor at the UCLA. After 35 years at UCLA, Dr. Catlin retired in order to devote his full attention to developing unique ways to deal with doping and improving methods for detecting the practices involved.
As far as I understand it, ADSI is a consultant firm that will advise ACE….
by lyne on
Oct 7, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
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As far as I understand it, ADSI is a consultant firm that will advise ACE
If that isn’t what I said it’s what I meant to say.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 7, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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Doping works
And it can be argued that a generous amount of doping works very well when a good portion of the peloton is doping less or not doping at all. I don’t see the proverbial arms race ending anytime soon, who knows what formula sketchy doctors are working on to carve out elbow room in the longitudinal testing systems. Who would have thought that peeing through a small amount of soap powder would have defeated EPO tests for years? We may see a downturn for a year or two but I would bet it won’t last. Somebody will figure something out and it will sweep the peloton.
The first line of defense has to be the UCI. The problem with them has always been that they could do a lot more. If that wasn’t painfully obvious in the past the work by the AFLD this summer has driven the point home.
I’ve been following the ACE program and I don’t think their test results mean a whole lot so far. Their learning curve has been way too steep. I think the threat of testing and the general culture at Garmin do a whole lot more to mitigate doping. I think Columbia is probably a somewhat different story, I doubt their culture of antidoping is nearly as strong. Catlin hasn’t impressed me with the statements he’s made about Lance’s program, even though I have a lot of respect for what he did in the past. Catlin went public with the Lance deal even before he had a specific plan in place.
by mysterion on Oct 7, 2008 9:17 AM EDT 0 recs
ACE
I’d like to more about the ACE program, really. I feel like I know a great deal about how the Dams plan works – how the payment works, who’s doing the analysis, the use of accredited labs, and whathaveyou. I feel like I know a lot less about ACE. Heh, maybe I just haven’t been paying attention.
by gavia on
Oct 7, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
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Lindsey’s the only one to get a look inside it, AFAIK.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 7, 2008 11:39 AM EDT
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ditto, ACE is a bit well opaque
especially for a program used by a couple of teams, Garmin, Columbia and BMC
by lyne on
Oct 7, 2008 11:41 AM EDT
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Instead of always trying to keep up with the Ferraris and Cecchinis, here's a radical idea: hire one of them!!
This isn’t such a hot idea, and we only have to look at history to see this.
Let’s look at Fuentes. Where did he come from? Straight form private practice and into doping? Or did someone carry him through the transition from gyn to EPO? Didn’t the Federación Española de Atletismo effectively fund his research?
Or how about the obvious – Conconi. Paid by CONI and the IOC to develop a test fro EPO and all the while working to make sure those who used it wouldn’t be detected. While training up Ferrari and other doping disciples.
Who funded the likes of Ferrara and Frieburg?
This thing works nice the other way round. It’s why accountancy firms hire former tax officials. It doens’t work so well in reverse. Either it’s been corrupted – as history shows us it has been – or the person becomes worthless, they lose their contacts, all they were good for was one procedure. What you’d really need is to hire Fuentes, and Cecchini, and Ferrari and every other doping doctor out there in order to take them off the market. Only you couldn’t trust the bastards not to double cross you and sell their services elsewhere anyway.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 7, 2008 10:07 AM EDT 0 recs
hm
good point. Well, we need someone who can combine cutting edge knowledge and integrity, I guess.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 7, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
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or
maybe this is a job for a group of medical professionals, all of whom are signed up to stop the problem, and who, working together, can get on the cutting edge. Perhaps the really advanced guys have too much incentive to work with the cheaters?
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 7, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
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Or maybe this is a job for the likes of Catlin and Damsgaard? But you seem to be saying their way is the wrong way.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 7, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
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Eh
I am saying that dispersed efforts are less powerful than a coalition. But one of the handicaps of blogging is that I often don’t know as much at the beginning of a conversation as I do by the end. In fact, that’s practically the rule on this site. I read that article in Bicycling about ACE, which is a completely different — and potentially very important — model. If these experts are independent of the teams themselves, that helps. It removes the incentive to fudge. I don’t know Catlin, but IIRC Damsgaard is independent, right? If he’s working for multiple teams, he must be.
Still, I wonder how many resources these independent guys can bring to the problem. ACE sounds like a pretty small company.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Oct 7, 2008 7:24 PM EDT
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yes
Dams is independent. The payment goes to the hospital, where he works. The hospital board thingy oversees the research and payment – in the style of a grants administrator at a university (an honest one, that is). There’s also a bunch of other researchers there, too. It sounds like a good-sized brain trust, as these things go.
by gavia on
Oct 7, 2008 8:14 PM EDT
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And what we’re seeing partic with Catlin and ACE is a move toward working together, thus bringing even more resources to the table.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on
Oct 8, 2008 3:22 AM EDT
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o/t, what's "IIRC" short for?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on
Oct 8, 2008 8:37 AM EDT
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if I remember correctly?
just a guess, don’t know it either
by Bruce Suomi on
Oct 8, 2008 9:55 AM EDT
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Bade Cooke Says Glass Is Half Full
“It’s really hard when you keep hearing all this stuff, but I guarantee you the sport has never been cleaner. There’s probably only five blokes out of 200 doing it, but they’re the reason the sport’s in turmoil and the reason there’s a lot of really good riders who can’t get a contract. It’s not right . . . and they’ll pay. But it makes it really hard for the rest of us doing the right thing because companies don’t want to tip in the money to be associated with it. Five years ago, there was a lot of it going on but the impact of was nowhere near what it is now. There are people losing their jobs and the cyclists won’t put up with it any more. There’s a lot of anger among them because it’s costing everyone a lot of money and their careers.”
Only five … that’d be Duenas, Beltran, Fofonov, Ricco, Schumacher, Peipoli and Sella. Oh hang on a mo, that’s seven.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 7, 2008 12:05 PM EDT 0 recs
not to be too cycnical
but if it was “only” 50 I’d feel good
by cyclingchallenge on
Oct 7, 2008 12:13 PM EDT
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Ivan Basso Going It Alone And Online
Since this year, he’s been working with renowned Italian trainer Dr. Aldo Sassi – coach of Cadel Evans at the Mapei Training Center near Milan – and will reportedly post his blood levels and training data online in an effort to rebuild his shattered credibility.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
by fmk on Oct 7, 2008 12:58 PM EDT 0 recs
Swell, I think I'll become a fan again :D
Unless he has grown bald.
by OctaBech on
Oct 7, 2008 1:01 PM EDT
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He's not quite bald no, although the hair line continues to recede....
….but hey I’d be hypocritical to complain about that given my penchant for Valverde ;-) Basso has a Flickr photostream with some almost up to date pics:
by Albertina on
Oct 7, 2008 6:32 PM EDT
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I'm glad to see his hairline still is acceptable
And thanks God that helmets were made mandatory.
by OctaBech on
Oct 8, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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lol, VN
Finally catching up. This was in the Italian press like a month ago. Better late than never, that’s what I always say.
/end snark
by gavia on
Oct 7, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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