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"...there is a mafia out there"

Imgp2649_tiny by Hons on

That's right, there is a mafia in cycling.  This is from an excerpt form and interview with the new American road champion, Tyler Hamilton.  He would say more but he's worried about getting banned from more races.  He talks about being accepted in the racing community following his suspension and the strain that his suspension has put on his marriage.  And he also talks about why he joined Ball at Rock Racing:

I’m not trying to be a rebel or anything. I’ve always enjoyed having a bit longer hair, not so high and tight. And Michael Ball has allowed me to feel that way, to relax a bit, grow some shag, wear some glasses you want to wear. That’s what it’s been like — fun.

I'm certainly not his number 1 fan.  But I always appreciate seeing the human side of cyclists.  If anyone sees the full interview, I'd be interested in any other gems.

2 recs | Comment 98 comments

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wha??

I have no idea what he’s talking about. There is a family of cyclists who use intimidation and violence to rule the peloton, and their connections to powerful people to escape prosecution? Or is this about doping products being supplied by the criminal underworld?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Oct 9, 2008 10:32 AM EDT   0 recs

Facetiousness leads nowhere!

The fact is that there are unscrupulous managers and riders outh there.

Otherwise, how explain the fact that with all the pressure to race clean, there are still those using doping products and those products are not just falling out of the sky!

That plus the fact that Hamilton has ALWAYS offered to have his blood compared to the bags of OP, as opposed to most Spanish riders that will only do so with a legal document, leads me to believe that TH might have gotten the short end of the stick!

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 10:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Please correct me if I'm mistaken

But Hamilton had already been caught blood doping by the IOC during the Olympics(dropped due to a procedural error) and later wass caught by the ICU also for blood doping in the Vuelta, where he instead of corporating with the prosecution he came up with the “unborn twin” story, never admitting what he had done was wrong.

So to me it’s only understandable that no big team is interested to go with him through the OP circus. And Tyler’s situation isn’t made easier with sponsors beginning demand that the teams have clean profiles, as in not having already convicted riders accused for paying $50k to Fuentes.

This has nothing to do with him being American or part of OP, but how he has handled the doping allegations.

by OctaBech on Oct 9, 2008 11:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The riddle me this...

Does the test for BD work effectively?

Between Hamilton and Santi Perez getting busted and Vinokourov and Kasheckin getting busted, how many BD positives came about? And that was at the height of OP.

All I am saying is that don’t rake him through the coals.

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 12:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Effective enough to get him convicted

And in case you didn’t know, the UCI do not dare to go to court unless they feel very safe.

Hamilton made the same mistake as Vino, he used a different person’s blood which is relatively easy to test for. It would not have been noticed had they used their own blood.

It’s clearly Hamilton’s attitude which has gotten in the way when he tried to find a new team(Vino would have had the same problem if it wasn’t for his connections) and the unfounded Mafia accusations won’t make it easier.

In other words, it’s not Hamilton vs the World but Hamilton vs Hamilton.

by OctaBech on Oct 9, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s clearly Hamilton’s attitude which has gotten in the way when he tried to find a new team(

Actually you’ll probably find it’s the four year ProTour ban, which only ended a few weeks back.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ahh didn't know it existed back then(before OP)

But it won’t get any easier with OP hanging over him and if he make allegations.

I was wondering, with the Pro Tour license still existing, should we expect Vino to get 4 years too?

by OctaBech on Oct 9, 2008 2:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, apprently Hamilton is the only person it ever applied to. Just cause he’s paranoid doesn’t mean people really aren’t out to get him.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 2:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL so true

He should blame his lawyer and himself then, that horrible twin story ended up costing two years.

If only we could penalize Hollywood script writers the same way. :D

by OctaBech on Oct 9, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hamilton/Perez and Vino/Kash

It can’t be any coincidence that these pairs of riders who were busted for blood doping at the same time were teammates.

The logical inference is that they were attempting autologous blood doping (i.e., each rider doping with his own blood) but that the bags got mixed up, each guy ended up with blood that was not his own, and each tested positive.

They were trying to do something that the authorities still can’t detect, and mistakenly ended up doing something that the authorities can detect.

So, Tyler, spare me your pity party and stop trying to insult our intelligence.

MJB

by MJB on Oct 11, 2008 3:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Was it the mafia

that made Hamilton and Marty Jemison go to Prentiss Steffen in 1996 when he was a U.S. Postal team doctor and inquire about doping products?

If Hamilton hadn’t been so eager to get involved in doping, maybe he never would have gotten in deep with cycling’s “mafiosi.” I bet David Moncoutie and Brad McGee don’t have to worry about finding a horse’s head in their beds.

Seriously, with a doping history going back to 1996, the Fuentes files from 2002 and 2003 detailing his life as a human pincussion, and the blood doping at the Olympics and the Vuelta in 2004, is there anyone dirtier than this guy?

by Tifosa on Oct 9, 2008 11:28 AM EDT   0 recs

yeah

Cry me a river. No sympathy here.

by gavia on Oct 9, 2008 11:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

is there anyone dirtier than this guy?

Just to get the ball rolling – Virenque?

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 11:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

While Hamilton gritted his teeth and shed a tear for Tugboat.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 12:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oui oui :D

No wonder the French men wanted him back on the bike; so he could spend his energy on peddling covered by hundreds of cameras.

by OctaBech on Oct 9, 2008 1:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Tifosa,

what do you feel about Basso?

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 12:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Basso

Despite the fact that Basso’s known doping history is not nearly as long-term or egregious as Hamilton’s, if Basso had refused to confess to any wrongdoing, as Hamilton has, and if Basso attempted to blame his troubles on “bad people,” as Hamilton has, I would have very little sympathy for such claims.

by Tifosa on Oct 9, 2008 1:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's right.

He didn’t ride for CSC.

Must be those big brown eyes!

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 2:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"I’m not the same person I was before, that’s for sure."

The twin has taken over!

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 11:41 AM EDT   0 recs

This is as close as he's ever come to admitting anything, right?

I used to like and respect the guy and nowadays I feel a degree of sympathy but please, either come right out and admit what you have done/what has been done to you, or stop with this cryptic “bad people doing bad things”-nonsense.

Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets

by Jens on Oct 9, 2008 12:08 PM EDT   0 recs

I read bad people doing bad things to mean he was sticking with his stitch-up scenario, not admitting anything.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

imo he can never admit to anything - remember the Fund?

but I do wish he’s stop talking about the so-called bad people and just race his bike

by lyne on Oct 9, 2008 1:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Fund? The Tyler Hamilton Foundation? But I thought all American cycling champs had to have a foundation. Floyd Landis has one too.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thought that was Floyd? Or maybe they both did.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 2:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ah. Didn’t really think Floyd was bright enough to have thought up the idea for himself.

I wonder how much he raised.

So, yeah, if Hamilton got this money from the public and he still hasn’t said sorry, well either them is some gullible people or he’s some piece o work..

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 2:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought

the Foundation was set up for legitimate charity activities (MS research?), but that he did also solicit donations for his defense though a separate effort.

by Katiek on Oct 9, 2008 2:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he doesn’t release a lot of info about his foundation, oddly. i wonder if it takes in even less than floyd’s.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 3:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Form 990

for fiscal year 2004 is on Guidestar - it shows total revenues of just under $410,000

by Katiek on Oct 9, 2008 4:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Will all the Valverde fans in here...

please stand up.

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 12:47 PM EDT   0 recs

Why not ask Valv-Piti...

for a blood sample?

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 2:39 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Why would he give one? Can't imagine it being a good move for him.

There’s no prosecution yet and he isn’t a convicted rider.

by OctaBech on Oct 9, 2008 2:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"Why would he give one? Can't imagine it being a good move for him."

That to me means one of two things:

1- He’s a doper, but he can hide behind his lawyer. Therefore, not a good move for him.

or

2- He’s not a doper, but the science to prove he is, is fallible, so also not a good move.

So which is it?

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 8:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

what does that have to do with Hamilton failing (or turning positive) in a test

he was caught doping, he served the penalty and can now race. As a fan, I am allowed to like it or not, but he can still race.

by lyne on Oct 9, 2008 8:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Full article

The complete interview is in the upcoming October 2008 Velonews.

I really wonder if all the jaded cyclists would rather see Hamilton end up like Pantani overdosing in some hotel room. Quote from Pantani:

For four years I’ve been in every court, I just lost my desire to be like all the other sportsmen, but cycling has paid and many youngsters have lost their faith in justice. All my colleagues have been humiliated, with TV cameras hidden in their hotel rooms to try and ruin families. How could you not hurt yourself after that?

Or let’s just say since he did his time how about cutting him some slack in his last season(s) as a pro cyclist and let him have his fun?

by spokejunky on Oct 9, 2008 1:11 PM EDT   0 recs

It's already out...

the VN with the interview, I mean.

by itswells on Oct 9, 2008 3:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh dear, even the Kiwis are getting heavy on him
Olympic gold medallist, Tour de France rider and convicted drug cheat Tyler Hamilton could ride in this year’s Tour of Southland.
Hamilton is one of the most controversial figures in a controversial sport. He helped Lance Amstrong win multiple Tour de France titles before leaving US Postal for Team CSC under manager Bjarne Riis. Following his gold medal in the 2004 Olympic time trial, Hamilton failed a blood doping test and the following year was given a two-year suspension by the United States Anti-Doping Agency, which he unsuccessfully appealed. He has also been linked to the subsequent Operation Puerto investigation into drugs in cycling following his time with CSC. It is understood there would be some ill feeling in the peloton if Hamilton were to ride in New Zealand.

link

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 2:59 PM EDT   0 recs

Kinda jaded

I find it odd that Basso gets a pro tour ride, prolly the tour next year.
Tyler gets kicked off a continental team, back to the states, never ride a tour again.
Same junk, different outcomes. And yeah i know, he didn’t admit. I don’t think i am the only one here to think that he got what he deserves, but what about everybody else?

It just hissed me off that some get to come back on red carpet (Basso) and others (Jorg J) get das boot.

I am still confused on the 4 year thingy. If Basso didn’t get it, then does Floyd have to or is it just that no one will hire him.

Yep, I’m rambling.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?

by CannonDowell on Oct 9, 2008 3:42 PM EDT   0 recs

As a non american and non French and non Italian and non UK

I always find it interesting to see the biases of each country.

Virenque a hero where I live ???

Hamilton and Landis obviously innocent to too many Americans yet Virenque a clear criminal?

not trying to start an argument and my comment is NOT aimed at the comment above …. but as someone who reads the press from a few countries …. it sucks that so many obvious nationalist biases still exist

by cyclingchallenge on Oct 9, 2008 3:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

fwiw

I’ve always hated Virenque, pre and post doping suspension :-)

"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."

by Drew... on Oct 9, 2008 5:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

While I don't disagree

it’s impossible to underestimate his (Virenque) popularity in France ….. a ittle like the popularity of Millar in Great Britain?

by cyclingchallenge on Oct 9, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not sure Millar's that popular in GB.

A lot of people here seem to think he’s a bit of a whiner.

by Albertina on Oct 9, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree. I think Millar’s popularity in the UK’s very much just with the Whittles and Fotheringhams who acted as media cheerleaders for him and still boost for him in order to retain access.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 9, 2008 6:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, I know he's hugely popular in France (he always had been)

but his popularity went through the roof after his tearful ‘confession.’

"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."

by Drew... on Oct 10, 2008 8:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My boss, who is French and into cycling, says that he comes across much better when speaking French.

She can’t stand him in English. I can’t comment, my French being exceedingly elementary…..

by Albertina on Oct 10, 2008 10:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry, I meant Millar, not Virenque.

It’s Friday. I’m in a state of confusion.

by Albertina on Oct 10, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Funny that. Even Roche senior sounds nice when talking French.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Oct 10, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, one of the things I never got..

..Virenque is supposed to be loved in France, still I’ve never talk to a cycling fan that respect him.
He got hammered over and over again (and still is up to this day) by THE most watched satiric TV program, the guignols de l’info).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMaa9Ui8JS4

The reaction of the main public is a bit tricky.. Unlike in the US, over there EVERYONE knows (or suspect) the pros are for the top 20 to 50 guys, a bunch of jaked head. The rationale was (is), they’re all on it, why should we focus on him because he was the one to get caught.
Seems to me the same rationale might be true in Italy for Pantani. Gav???
Both of them had a style of racing that the European’s Joe 6 packs like.
But nope, IMO (and I have a pretty good idea about it), RV is not a star in France, he’s mostly seen as a clown not as a respected figure. Not even competent, he’s as literally stupid as it can be.
His quote “a l’insu de mon plein gre” is certainly the most used quote in France since 98.
Pure comedy.
IMO of course, I’m getting a bit tired of trying to explain this USunexplainable piece of French concept.

by Celestn on Oct 11, 2008 2:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

well-said

This matches my impression of Virenque in the French forums and press that I’ve seen.

Pantani. Heh, that’s a complicated one. I’ll come back to that, too early this morning for that.

by gavia on Oct 11, 2008 12:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So

you finally took down that poster of him in your basement?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Oct 9, 2008 5:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Virenque is despised on the French cycling boards that I read

the ‘loved by French housewives’ was meant to be insulting

by lyne on Oct 9, 2008 5:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My Virenque experiences

were (and yes i deserve to be mocked) wearing a polka dot jersey while watching some stages during his “reign”.

In France … on the roads … he was a God …. and EVERYone it seemed called me Richard – everyone! – if since then he is less popular … it’s in part because he is a lousy TV announcer … unlike Jalabert.

In the photo: Wegman seems a little stiff:

by cyclingchallenge on Oct 9, 2008 6:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My one and only Virenque experience....

…was when he climbed over a fence and right over the top of me in Bourg d’Oisans, microphone in hand. I was slightly in shock. I rather feared for my life.

by Albertina on Oct 9, 2008 6:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A doper is a doper, no matter the nationality.

But at the end of the day, they are human and therefore fallible. Confessed or not.

Paid his dues and now he is back to racing and he won the US in fine fashion.

Go TH!

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Oct 9, 2008 8:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I suppose it amplifies.

A few bare-bones facts come out from the AP/reuters. The tuned-in cycling public public believes partly what they want to believe, and partly what they hear.

The broader press picks up the story and repeats the reportage, bracketed with qualifiers and human interest to make it palatable to the public. The public responds to the slightly shaded reportage as confirmation of their suspicions that other nations might have it in for their nation.

The next round of reportage is bracketed with yet more qualifiers, and more punches are pulled, to make it palatable; the story spreads. New readers get the softer version of the story, and are glad to hear that their guy is probably being framed. The cycle continues until everyone but the die-hards get bored.

by JFS_PGH on Oct 9, 2008 8:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs