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more viagra studies being conducted

No joke, and WADA is behind the research.  At first glance, if you're trying to find out about a slight extra percentage boost, it's a bit beside the point to have lacrosse players riding bikes, as opposed to, well, cyclists riding bikes. 

The catch 22 with using actual cyclists is, of course, that if it viagra does help, WADA would be faced with the question of how to treat those cylists after the study.  And the main goal of the study is to see if viagra is useful in situations, besides high altitude, where oxygen access is compromised (specifically citing Beijing, BTW).

The article also mentions (but the study does not test) the possibility that viagra could be helpful in faster or more complete delivery (an effectively larger dose) of performance enhancers used at very low concentrations.

 

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er um

To put it delicately, I really don’t know what Viagra does, besides what they say in the ads. Is this about oxygen supply? Stimulant? What?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2008 10:28 AM EST   0 recs

It’s explained in the article:

The drug works by suppressing an enzyme that controls blood flow, allowing the vessels to relax and widen. The same mechanism facilitates blood flow into the penis of impotent men. In the case of athletes, increased cardiac output and more efficient transport of oxygenated fuel to the muscles can enhance endurance.

ESPN also have the story, less intelligently but pointing out some adverse effects (some of which have been hard not to notice):

How badly must you want to win to suffer the lingering effects of one Viagra too many? Have none of these athletes seen Chris Rock’s I Think I Love My Wife? The scene where even The Economist can’t tamp down expectations? He had to go to the hospital for that, and doctors did something there that cannot be repeated in polite company. This scares off no one?

Last months, Victor Conte explained the use of Viagra to USA Today:

Oxygen is transported into the heart to be pumped out to rest of the body. Viagra vasodilates (widens) the lungs and pulmonary arteries. This is where the exchange of carbon dioxide and oxygen occurs. So more red blood cells carrying oxygen get into the heart and more carbon dioxide is pumped out. It gives you stamina and endurance. Viagra could possibly accelerate the removal of fatigue acids and prolong the onset of fatigue. Would it help an offensive lineman who is making play after play after play? Yes. Would it be performance enhancing for a major league pitcher who’s throwing pitch after pitch after pitch? I believe the answer is yes. Would it help a sprinter? Maybe not in competition, but in training. They run one sprint, they walk one sprint. If you enhance your recovery in repeat sprints, ultimately you run faster in competition. The cardiovascular system is a two-way street. Blood is not only delivering oxygen it is removing waste. That keeps you from tiring more quickly, lacking endurance – and your pitches slowing down at the end of the game. IHT [intermittent hypoxic training] is growing at a rapid rate and it is of value to all types of athletes. It now seems that moderate exercise in a hypoxic training tent or while using a mask for just 30 minutes a day and three times per week can provide significant benefit to athletes. Viagra’s main benefit to athletes may turn out to be that it accelerates recovery.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Nov 24, 2008 10:46 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I look forward to seeing the results

I’m still not totally convinced, because I would have thought that you have to do something to boost the blood volume as well. Just diluting the blood vessels could lead to some sort of anaphylactic shock, where you don’t have enough blood to supply everywhere that wants it. But then pumping up the blood volume might lead to bloat and oedema. What you really want is to direct the blood you’ve got to where you need it and the body tends to be pretty good at doing that by itself. This is stuff I vaguely remember from years ago so any more expert take would be welcomed, and judging from some of the podium photos we have seen this year there are some who reckon that it helps.

by Monty. on Nov 24, 2008 3:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I would have thought that you have to do something to boost the blood volume as well

Conte was prescribing it in conjunction with EPO, presumably for the reason you’re suggesting. I’d presume it would have the same effect with autologous bloop transfusions.

There’s enough of it been seized – and as you say enough photographic evidence – to believe it’s being used in the pro peloton. Right now, it’s legal, so long as properly prescribed. I can’t imagine as it’s difficult for a cyclist to get a legit prescription for it.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Nov 24, 2008 3:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I suspect (and I may be talking total bullshit here)

that you need a lot more skill and expert help to use this stuff in any way that actually helps you. There are a lot of factors to balance out, compared with say EPO where roughly speaking bigger is better right up to the moment your heart stops beating. Which means doctors, clinics, money trails and the risk of being exposed long afterwards.

by Monty. on Nov 24, 2008 4:34 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

But we both know that even today a lot of cyclists still believe in voodoo medicine. It’s a downside to driving the organised doping rings out of the sport, we’re back to self-medication and what’s spread on the jungle drums.

pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway

by fmk on Nov 24, 2008 7:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I have posted before, about finding it difficult to believe...

that so many racers as so happy, in that particular way, at the end of a grueling race. As for the risks, they are using it for premature infants and kids and adults with pulmonary hypertension.

One suspects it’s a dose issue.

As for the blood volume question, the strongest effect (as I understand it) is on tiny capillaries. Sure, you have a lot of them, but many are so small that the red blood cells are going through single file in any case. loosen those up a bit, and it may make the difference between “access” and “no access” to a particular cell.

Finally, I expect this affects the rate of glucose in/waste out of cells, as well as O2 in and CO2 out.

Remember, a lot of the people whose deaths are attributed to viagra have a) heart disease (which is the root of the E.D. problem) and b) a brief chance to engage in some rather strenuous activity. The drug itself can’t be blamed for the resulting heart attacks.

by JFS_PGH on Nov 25, 2008 12:10 AM EST   0 recs

This article seems highly speculative.

I think I will wait until the results of the studies come out and we learn the dosage required and the other effects which may also come with that level of intake.

You know, if I were a company who had a drug for a highly specific physical issue, I would be trying to broaden my market of potential customers in similar ways to the articles you have posted.

JFS_PDH – Do you now, or have you ever been employed by Pfizer?
Hahaha . . . .

by Ryan_Liles on Nov 25, 2008 12:51 AM EST   0 recs

no, and no.

Basic sciences only, academic / research center. Nor am I familiar with viagra in any other way [wink].

But remember, viagra’s main “effect” was originally a side-effect. The whole-body effects (hypertension) were one of the two original goals of the research. The blood pressure results were moderate, not terrible. They just realized that the side effect was a total gold mine, and moved that up to goal #1 for approval and sale.

I’m posting about this because it makes total physiological sense. Even if all the stuff does is to drop blood pressure under extreme exertion, while maintaining blood flow, it seems that should help the heart/lung process.

Heck, even if all it does is to make their skin flush, and dump excess heat faster, that could be an advantage. More blood deeper to tissues? Advantage.

We know the effect is dead obvious at extreme altitude. We also know that testers do not simulate “the best athletes in the world winning the sprint at the end of a long day’s racing.” That level of physiological stress would kill the average study participant, and the institutional review board would never pass that extreme a study design. It is inconceivable to me that it has no effect at the extremes of performance.

The downsides? (Besides chafing?) I’d expect it would exacerbate end-of-race blood-pressure drop / blackout. (Yes we’ve seen some of that this year. And yes, I am a Cancellara fan. And no, I’m not going to complain, so long as it’s legal.)

by JFS_PGH on Nov 25, 2008 8:21 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Well, on the surface it appears as if it could have an effect, but . . .

. . . as I said, I haven’t seen any real info regarding actual performance with the dosage used and other effects that may come along with long term use.

So, it is just basically just a vasodilator, right?
How would it compare as a performance booster to say, 800mg of Ibuprophin?

That is why I am skeptical in all this lofty info as it has no point of referance that it can really be judged from.

by Ryan_Liles on Nov 25, 2008 11:50 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ohh I don't think Fabian needs Viagra ;-)))

and speculative comments don’t help either….

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950

by CycleGirl on Nov 25, 2008 7:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

here's a comment posted on txbra

by a cat1 rep for Pfizer (i.e. cat1 road racer who works for Pfizer):

"I work for Pfizer and have been selling Viagra for 5 years. Have read many studies on the subject already. From the studies I have seen, Viagra does work very well in increasing O2 consumption well above sea level. But why? Not only does Viagra increase blood flow to the penile arteries, it basically facilitates vasodilation in all arteries. That’s why one of the side effects of all the PDE-5 inhibitors is headaches. But how does it help athletes?

What a lot of people don’t know is that Viagra is also sold by another name in the United States called Revatio. Revatio is sildenafil (Viagra), but is indicated for Pulmonary Arterial Hypertension (PAD). People with PAD basically have high blood pressure in their lungs. Take Revatio (or Viagra) and the pulmonary arteries dilate and decrease blood pressure within the lungs. Well, when you dilate the arteries in the lungs, and increase the stroke volume of the heart, as you would during exercise, it allows more blood, and thus oxygen, to be transported to the lungs. Thus, there is your exercise benefit. Every hard effort can be sustained longer and recovery immediately after hard efforts is much shorter. It’s basically the poor man’s EPO.

This also explains why you would see a significant benefit at altitude. Increased blood volume, more oxygen, significantly higher blood/lung capillary transfer oxygen gradient due to altitude effects and, well, there’s your significant cheating affect. I have a study where they tested Viagra’s use in decreasing the effects of jet lag when traveling basically for the same reasons. People taking sildenafil suffered no jet lag at all. There’s a lot of off-label uses for Viagra like these. Have seen studies of people taking it at sea level and they did not see a significant increase in performance in sea level athletes. Might be able to find the studies if you want them."

by R Mc on Nov 25, 2008 5:44 PM EST   0 recs

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