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It's easy to get caught up in personalities. We do all the time. With our loved ones and with our heroes, we admire what we call "good qualities" and deplore what we call cheating. We look up to Stuart O'Grady and throw darts at Ricardo Ricco. This is the way of the world, no? 

Stats_medium

But reality says otherwise.  It says that the world of personalities, the world of the ego, is a myth. Now I'm not about to get into spirituality here but I am dabbling in sadistics in this post. Specifically I'm asking the question when do pro cyclists begin to decline in ability?  Ultimately its true that regardless of how good a cyclist is, how hard they train, how much EPO they take, how smart they are, whatever- they start to lose their abilities, their stamina, and perhaps their interest in competing well enough to win.

But at what age does this happen? When does the body begin to give out, when does the mind get interested in other things? This is where sadistics comes into play because with 100+ years of records we can see riders improving, then declining: an arc in ability that mimics the arc that our lives take from birth to death. (Isn't that our ultimate interest in sports is anyway?) So below the fold I'll take you on a journey with the most accomplished names in cycling to see at what point we peak in ability that thus begin that inevitable decline.

Star-divide

There's many ways to find the peak year of cyclists but what I did here was look at the winners of the greatest cycling races held to dat: the winners of the three Grand Tours, the five Monuments, and for completeness, the winners of Paris-Tours. That's nine races, eight of which have had winners for about 1000 years now. 832 winners in fact, though of course the best riders of all won these events multiple times. Let's cut to the chase and get to the bottom line and then we'll look at interesting aberrations.

 

RaceWinner's Avg. Age
Giro di Lombardia 26.90
Ronde van Vlaanderen 27.22
Paris-Tours 27.37
Giro d'Italia 27.76
Tour de France 27.80
Liege-Bastogne-Liege 27.87
Milan-San Remo 28.07
Paris-Roubaix 28.16
Vuelta a Espana 28.21
Total Average 27.62

Often one hears announcers saying how 30+ year olds are smarter or better in some way but the facts say that's not true. There are of course individuals that can win one of the Big Ones when they are 30+ but the odds are against them. Take Eddie Merckx. He won these races 30 times and only four times did he win after his 30th birthday: LBL when he was 30 and MSR at 30 and 31 and Flanders at 30. So averages are fine and all but lets take a closer look at the distribution of winners by age:

 

Win1_medium

This bar graph is a bit hard to read. Realize that the tallest bar is 28 years old and contains not only the average but the median age. Once you se that you then see that older than 28 the numbers of winners drops faster than younger than 28. There's also a bit more of an extreme tail for the older winners.  Let's pare this down a bit and just look at  Grand Tour winners:

Gt_medium

A little easier to read! Notice that the extremes from the bar graph just above are cut off here. No one has won a Grand Tour at ages 37-38-39 due probably to the greater rigor of those events as opposed to the Monuments. But you see the same basic thing: older than 28 the numbers of winners declines faster than younger than 28.

Now lets look at a final bit of data: the average winning age by decade:

00-08: 29.9
90-99: 29.4
80-89: 28.0
70-79: 27.4
60-69: 26.2
50-59: 27.8
40-49: 27.4
30-39: 25.8
20-29: 28.3
10-19: 25.8
00-09: 26.5

Well that's interesting. The average age of winners looks like its getting older! Maybe we can cheat death! Actually though a closer look shows that the average age has gotten older twice.  The second time is now, and I'll deal with that in a minute, but the first time was after Wold War One. Since I'm going by decade here that post WW1 surge is a bit camouflaged here so I'll spell it out without another chart: from 1919 and for six years after the average age of winning is 29.3. In fact there were only 1 23 year old, one 24, and three 25's.

But most interesting within this time period (19-24) its the four French races that really bring up the average winning age: together LBL, P-T, P-R, and the Tour have an average winning age of 31.18, while the others (Flanders, Lombardia, Giro, and MSR) have an average age of only 27.4 with Flanders having the youngest winning average of only 26.0. So the only thing I can guess is that the French bled their youth at a higher rate than the Italians and Belgians and so the old geezers had an easier time of it in the French races. (This was a time when racers crossed national boundaries much less frequently to race than today.)

But back to today and the increasing age of the winners in our sample. Why? Several possible reasons:

- The team concept is stronger and teams are more likely to go with a past winner than skip over him to a younger guy. In terms of raw power who do you like- Gesink or Menchov? Kreuziger or Basso? Contador or Armstrong/Leipheimer? I think the younger guy wins every time but the teams will back the older guy until they are way past their prime normally. In light of that, Riis' decision to let go of Sastre in favor of the Schlecks makes a lot of sense.  Bruyneel better not piss off Bert- or Brajkovic.

- Demographics + affluence. Europe and WASP America are getting older and reproduce below the replacement rate. That means that fewer of those youngsters are coming into the sport- all sports really. You see this easily in European soccer but cycling is more insular obviously: its still about Caucasians. 

In addition richer people tend to go into sports at a lower rate than working class or poor people and since much of the real menial jobs in Europe, the true scut work, are handled by Turks, North Africans, third worlders who don't cycle that exacerbates the smaller talent pool. 

Together demographics and affluence get fewer younger riders into the sport and thus allow older riders to hang around and win stuff.

- Better medicine now. This is both good and bad. The good part is that injuries can be attended to much better. Just think Merckx racing now. When he finished racing his body was beat up and he just couldn't go on. If he were around today he would have been patched up much better. 

Now the bad side of improved medicine: doping. Well not just doping but more scientific doping. No more do we get Tom Simpson's speed+ ETOH combo for success. But an interesting twist here is that although it tends to be the climby types that get busted, the race with the oldest average age of its winners in the past decade is Paris-Tours (32.3): before Gilbert this year (age: 26) only Jacob Piil in 02 (age 29) was younger than 30 going all the way back to 1996. Before 96 and going back to well the beginning there was only an occasional 30+ winner: 92 (Redant- 30), then 78 (Zoetemelk- 33) then 76 (Dewitte- 30) then 67 (Van Looy- 34).. you get the idea. So what do you think is happening at the most sprinter friendly of all races I looked into in this decade? (A side note on Paris-Tours: for "the sprinters classic" if Petacchi doesn't race this year none of the top sprinters- you name 'em- will have tasted victory in this race.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apologize for the digressing; there's just so much interesting info here that I could get lost in the history of each of these races. ( Fortunately we have blogs like The Virtual Musette to read for the larger picture.) The point though is that overall the winners ages have gotten older since the 60's. Maybe I'll stop here and get you to guess as to what's happening and predict if the trend will continue. One last thing, a sports adage that illustrates that while the announcers talk again and again about the older riders, its still the under 30 year olds that rule the sport:

You make your rep in your 20's and your money in the 30's.

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huh...

sadistics. i do not think that word means what you think it means.

by gavia on Dec 6, 2008 11:06 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha! Good one! I get your point:

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."- H. L. Mencken

by ursula on Dec 6, 2008 11:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YEARRRRGGHH!

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Dec 7, 2008 2:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

amazing, amazing work and research here.

One thought: I think there’s more at work here than just physical breakdown. Look at Lance. He just got sick of having no life. One of my favorite Lance quotes is (and I paraphrase): “You guys just don’t understand. I can’t split and stack firewood in my backyard when I’m at home because of the fear that I’ll develop muscles in my arms and that weight will hold me back on the big climbs…”

I wonder how much the all-consuming nature of cycling also limits cyclists’ careers. They simply get tired of the grind. I can’t imagine riding 24/7 for a decade, especially not if I wasn’t one of the top twenty and getting ego reinforcements in the form of a high salary and public love and adoration (which I get none of now, by the way, unless I include Drew, and he’s kind of fickle).

In other words, maybe cyclists are just as good physically in their early thirties, but they’re just anxious to cash out and get on to a career that allows them to live with their families, flex their mental muscles a bit more and drink a couple beers now and then.

Just a thought.

by Tiki on Dec 7, 2008 12:43 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree about the grind of being a cyclist

For 10 months out of the year they have to be pretty stringent about training/sleeping/eating/ and not giving in to many vices (Boonen excepted), and even the two month ‘off season’ is intermingled with team training camps of one form or another.

I can see the successful guys being motivated to stick around, as winning will do that, but I’m sure the attrition rate among gregarios is high. If it is, I’m not surprised. If it isn’t, I’m kind of shocked. I’ve said it before that pro cycling is one of the hardest ways I can think of to earn a living in the world of athletics.

Oh, and Tiki feels and looks years younger since he took up cycling. Of that I can personally attest.

"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."

by Drew... on Dec 7, 2008 8:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's pretty much what Julich said

when he retired — about not being able to get motivated to suffer any more.

by NE Observer on Dec 7, 2008 2:19 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh, and...

Wallace Shawn rocks.

by Tiki on Dec 7, 2008 12:44 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As you wish....

Ursula, this is a great post. And not just because of the great pics and my sudden urge to throw in a particular movie. I hope this gets good discussion and even more follow up as this stuff I can read for days.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Dec 7, 2008 12:56 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is a great post

I mean… holy shit.

It’s been a bit of a truism in sports that training & c. have increased longevity, so it’s so excellent to see someone hammer it out with numbers. one caveat: with the grand tours, the age is skewed by a poor sample size, and the fact that six of those post-millenium wins are by an aging Armstrong. Not a criticism of him, of course; just saying, on e dominant guy who happens to be old in cycling terms can mess with the numbers a bit.

Also, my money’s on fitness rather than team tactics. I do think most teams would dump their leader if they saw cracks in the facade, and had a kid waiting in the wings. Look at Contador in the 2007 Tour.

Anyway, this is excellent and I hope people recommend it up. And I hope you don’t mind me erasing that creative white space at the end.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Dec 7, 2008 2:51 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How do you calculate the age

CQ calculate the age as actual year minus birthyear, and that makes it almost accurate for those born in january but those born in december gets almost one year older that way.

By the way, the average age for all the riders in the pro-tour teams is 28 years :-)

Oh and i think your post is great, I love numbers, and even more when somebody explains them for me :-)

by LittleOldLady on Dec 7, 2008 6:53 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rounding

I just did the simple thing and rounded off the ages to the year. Doing that. as you note, skews the results to be older than they actually are since most of the races I included are staged in the first half of the year. That’s one reason why I included Paris-Tours- its relatively late in the year. But still the results are skewed old.

This also leads to problems with individuals. For instance the Tour has their youngest winner all-time as being 19 years old- Henri Cornet in the 2nd Tour in 1904. But rounding his age off makes him 20 in my study as he was just short of his 20th birthday when the Tour happened- birth date August 4th.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."- H. L. Mencken

by ursula on Dec 7, 2008 11:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One thing you did not factor in . . .

 . . . is the huge advancements in sports physiology research, as well as application, that has taken place in the last 25 years which has consistently changed the peak age of an athlete to be slightly older in most all sports, but most notably in sports where aerobic endurance plays a key factor in the outcome of the event. You partially support this with your breakdown of average winning age by decade from 1970 through 2008, and I would speculate with significant confidence there would be correlating statistical evidence in other endurance related sports.

This is in no way related to the used of drugs in order to boost an athletes capability, but rather the specific use of specialized training, recovery, diet, supplements, rest, muscle stim., ect. in a manner to optimized the athlete towards a prearranged time of optimal performance.

There are many government and private organizations through out the world that are completely focused on this.
Three of the most notable are –
The UC Davis Department of Sports Medicine
The Australian Institute of Sport
The Mapei Sports Center

Despite this oversight, the article was really great and I very much appreciate you taking the time in breaking down this data.
It was very informative.

by Ryan_Liles on Dec 7, 2008 8:18 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good point here.

I did not include sports psych research but that was more because I was listed the other reasons off the top of my head- careless! But your point is taken.

One thing about this point and the others I mentioned (and those that we are still missing) is that we don[t know how important each one is. How important is psychology compared to doping compared to team formation to demographics compared to….? THAT study is way beyond even the mighty resources of PdC!

One thing that reading your comment and other comments here is making me do is go back to the data and see how many of the winners who were 30+ had actually first won one of these races in their 20’s. My guess is that a huge percentage of them fit that profile, especially lately- the profile of Lance, who first won in his 20’s, as opposed to Sastre who won his first in his 30’s. I’ll post that later today.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."- H. L. Mencken

by ursula on Dec 7, 2008 11:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was probably a typo, but sport physiology & psychology are very different things.
Both have had major advances in the last 25 years, and both have improved the athlete to become more optimal at an older age.

They are so intertwined, it would be hard to distinguish which has had a greater impact on the sport, but if I had to choose I would say research in sports physiology has had the greatest impact.

Even with regarded to doping, I would say research in sports physiology has had the greatest impact as without this science doping would become much less effective and much more deadly.

by Ryan_Liles on Dec 7, 2008 12:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

They were relying on voodoo and witchcraft back in the early 20th century. Somewhere I’ve read they were drinking stricnine during a race or something really stupid back then. That might be a distance running story, can’t remember. And the age increase is happening in running as well I think. Haile Gebrselassie set a new world best marathon time this year at 35/36 years. I’m not sure overall times are faster than years ago, but in my area the masters age division (40s) in (running) racing is the deepest and most competitive. The small local marathons the 40 somethings tend to dominate the top 10.

by phantom_51 on Dec 8, 2008 10:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Excellent post.

    Not only informative but makes me think (imagine that!). I am wondering now about how much money has affected the average age. Would it have been possible for a rider to target the Tour fifty years ago and pass up giving other races his full attention or even just using them as conditioning. And would have been possible to support a family on a successful racers salary fifty years ago. More money also pays the sports physiologist, personal coach, medical personnel, wind tunnel sessions etc..
    And oh yea, where’s that money coming from if not ultimately from the fans who are supporting the team sponsors and buying the bikes and other gear. And how can we afford these million Euro salaries?

Speed on the descent can easily be lost when you slam into a tree.

by flying dog on Dec 7, 2008 8:47 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Slight counter

I would say that the culture of the sport has changed toward focusing on the Tour (for certain guys) not because the riders can make a year’s worth of salary in three weeks, but because the sponsors can get a year’s worth of exposure there. Salaries have gone up too, but if the sponsors needed Contador to win all over Europe, all season, I suspect that’s what JB would be telling him to do.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Dec 7, 2008 9:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

post pivot

regarding sponsor exposure: think about it: a sponsor, say Columbia, can get a YEAR’s worth of almost global exposure plus 3 weeks of fairly high impressions for 10 mil.

I’m too lazy to try to look it up—but how much would it cost to run 3 or 4 ads during the US stupor bowl?

I bring this up in context of the news that Honda’s bailing out on F1 sponsorship.

I can’t draw out the implications for marketing cycling sponsorship—any one else want to chime in?

(And, note to Ryan—actually this might be a good time to start building experience cache (imagine the accent) for a race like Battenkill—not so much for Euro travelers, but also for Americans. Who’da thunk that Sturgis would become a destination for harley riders???)

by R Mc on Dec 7, 2008 10:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The last cost for commercials in the last Super Bowl was reportedly $2.7 million per 30 seconds; not including the cost of creating it.

Honda stopped sponsorship of their F1 team essentially because F1 is moving to a standardized engine format similar to NASCAR so they decided there is really not much engineering value that it can gain from this which was the primary reason for its’ sponsorship of the team.

If you transferred what is happening in F1 to cycling for example, imagine for a second if the UCI required everyone to ride on the exact same bike with the same parts. Giant, Trek, Shimano, Campy, ect they would probably drastically cut back on sponsorship also as there is now a much more limited value that could be gained from that cost.

As for Sturgis, it is basically a fan based anomaly. It is my hope that Battenkill will become more like Daytona Bike Week then Sturgis because at Daytona high level racing actually occurs.

by Ryan_Liles on Dec 7, 2008 11:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agree on Physiology and psychology.

Pro cycling is way out on the top of the curve in terms of how fit the riders are, but physiologically I think we could make people 31 be the equivalent to people 28 or close enough to make little difference, but you have to look at teams and expectations, which translates into salaries which ultimately drives expectations which …. This will bring things down in terms of victories.

 I fully expect for at least the next 20 years, barring major economic re-arrangement, that the average age of victors will continue its upward trend, probably getting up to 30 or so, with a drop off in the middle of that decade of life. As training techniques get better I expect to see younger winners also. The Standard Deviation of winners ages will get bigger is my prediction.

by Markk on Dec 7, 2008 4:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that one thing that long course triathlon, like the ironman shows us is

That age seems to be less of an issue in endurance sports as distance/time increases. The ability to hold a high speed over a long distance decreases somewhat, but not endurance. As will athletes like Michellie Jones, she might not have the speed she once had as a short course athlete in her younger years, but she’s more experienced and uses that experience to put in max effort when it will do the most good. It seems to be the same for ultramarathoners, like Pam Reed from right here in Tucson. She won Badwater twice and she is well up there in age.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Dec 7, 2008 12:14 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lighter racing schedule

I’d argue that a lighter racing schedule for riders in recent years is probably as much or more responsible for riders’ longevity than access to better medicine. Merckx wasn’t spent at age 30 just because he didn’t have access to 21st century medicine, but because he’d raced himself into the ground every year for a decade.

I think this is basically the same point flying dog made above, talking about money. Thirty or forty years ago, riders raced a couple hundred days a year because they couldn’t make a living unless they raced that much. Now, a rider can make a decent living while racing fewer than half that many days.

Of course, even in the ‘60s and ’70s, a superstar like Eddy Merckx probably could have made a pretty good living while racing less than 200 days a year, and while using a large portion of his races as “training” for the big events, but that just wasn’t the way it was done back then, and, it seems, it just wasn’t the way Eddy Merckx was made. In the film The Greatest Show on Earth, about the 1974 Giro, one of Gimondi’s domestiques is interviewed. He says he had previously been a watercarrier for Merckx, but no one could do that job for more than two or three years without burning out. Merckx is always on the front of races, he says, so his teammates also always have to be on the front.

Bernard Hinault said during the Armstrong era that if Merckx had concentrated on the Tour de France they way Armstrong did, he would have won it twelve times. We’ll never know, but it sounds pretty believable to me.

by Tifosa on Dec 7, 2008 1:46 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree.

The typical early to mid 30s retirement was probably a combination of both physical and mental burnout from a full racing schedule. Had guys like Coppi, Merckx, and Hinault patterned their careers in the mold of today’s typical Grand Tour specialists, they probably would have had longer careers, or certainly more Tour victories.

It is also worth mentioning that each one of those legends had nagging injuries that perhaps also shortened their careers. You have to wonder how many of the old school cyclists were just simply too beat up to go on racing year after year.

The lighter racing schedule is another one of those reasons I just can’t bring myself to put Armstrong on anywhere near the same level as Bartali, Coppi, Merckx or Hinault. Any one of those guys had the ability to win 7 or more Tours.

It’s also no surprise that Anquetil was the first 5 time Tour winner and also the first guy to win all three GTs. He had very few major wins outside of time trials and stage races, so the case can be made that he was much fresher for the long stage races than his counterparts from earlier eras. The case can certainly be made that he, rather than Indurain or Armstong, was the first Grand Tour specialist.

Anyway, this topic could lead to dozens of new discussions. Excellent post Ursula, and fantastic food for thought. This is just the kind of shit that bangs around in my head while I’m trying to get to sleep at night, and also provides the inspiration that leads to an article in The Virtual Musette.

by The Team Chef on Dec 7, 2008 6:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

date of the Merckx sucker-punch was '75

Besides his terrible early-career Derny crash, Merckx took a terrible punch from a spectator in ‘75, followed by a nasty crash. Maybe it’s only post-facto that this is used to explain his low performance after that, and retirement.

I can imagine doing more analysis several ways, if someone were REALLY bored.

Number of days raced / chance of winning (call it cycling age, not calendar age)?

Select a group based on early-career wins, and see how many are lost to retirement at a particular age? (Easier to chart than injury). This might partially separate out those who retire while they are still winning, from those who go downhill for a while first.

The blip on the high end of the graph sort of suggest that the few who are lucky enough to avoid major injury and focused enough to not mind the eventual boredom (or desperate enough for the money) can keep going for a long time. Or are they all one person?

by JFS_PGH on Dec 8, 2008 4:08 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For comparison

I thought I’d look at a race that isn’t a monument or Grand Tour, and see how it stacks up. I picked the Tour de Suisse because I thought it might be an interesting mix of stars warming up for the TdF and youngsters who were being tested out in a shorter stage race. How would that skew the results? I totted up the ages of the winners of the 72 editions of the race, and the average age came out to be…27.6. Almost exactly the same.

Decade by decade, it’s a little different:
Tour de Suisse/ GT/Monuments (from above)
00-08: 29.37 / 29.9
90-99: 27.64 / 29.4
80-89: 26.85 / 28.0
70-79: 27.52 / 27.4
60-69: 25.53 / 26.2
50-59 28.68 / 27.8
40-49 (6 editions): 28.64 / 27.4
33 (1st yr)-39: 27.02 / 25.8

In the ’80s and ’90s, for instance, winners of the Tour de Suisse averaged more than a full year younger than the GT/Monument guys, while the ’50s were totally skewed by 7 editions of the Tour de Suisse going to just two riders (Pasquale Fornara with 4 wins, Hugo Koblet with 3) who were necessarily older each time they won. And in the ’30s & ’40s, TdS winners averaged more than a year older than GT/M winners.

But you still do see the same average trend upward in the past 3 decades, at least. The big jump in age in the ’00s seems to show increasing interest in the TdS by mature TdF contenders: winners include Lance Armstrong, Alexandre Vinokourov (both 29.75), and Jan Ullrich (30.5 & 32.5).

Note: The age of each rider was figured by looking at month/year of birth and month TdS was held in rider’s winning year (didn’t settle permanently into June until 1955) and figuring the appropriate decimal—Vino, for instance, born in September 1973 was listed as 29.75 when he won in June 2003.

Once I went back and read that Ursula rounded by year (everyone born in the calendar year considered the same age regardless of month born), I ran the numbers again to get them to match. The average age using his method of figuring age comes out to 27.61, and the decades look like this:
00-08: 29.56
90-99: 27.7
80-89: 26.9
70-79: 27.5
60-69: 25.6
50-59: 28.5
40-49: 28.5
30-39: 27.0

So, in this case rounding doesn’t change too much except distribution of winners’ ages. Here are a few stats on that:

Oldest winner: 35.33
Youngest: 22.08
Winners who have reached their 30th birthday: 16 (22.22 percent)
Winners statistically age 30 or over (rounded up): 18 (25 percent)
Won over 30 without previously winning in 20s: 10 unrounded/12 rounded
Winners under the age of 25: 18 (25 percent) for those who haven’t reached their 25th birthday—goes down to 11 (15.3 percent) if ages are rounded up

Age distribution graphs

Unrounded (rider is listed as 29 even if will turn 30 one month after TdS—the way we usually consider age)

Rounded (Ursula’s method—rounding to year, giving a better idea of physiological age)

by majope on Dec 8, 2008 12:21 PM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Love it

If I had my wish, this site would be at least 30 percent math.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Dec 8, 2008 2:29 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is my theory why soccer will never have a future in the US

American fans are statistic-freaks and there is no way to break down soccer into RBI’s or shots-on -goal percentage or third down conversions or whatever.

Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets

by Jens on Dec 8, 2008 2:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+/-

My favorite team sports stat, in a low-scoring environment. How many goals were scored by each team when you were on the pitch. Obviously this is a team thing, but within the team you can judge somewhat. Not sure it works as well with soccer as with hockey or basketball where changes are more frequent.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Dec 8, 2008 3:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I beg to differ

As someone who’s been quoted in the NYT on soccer, though I have to admit not about my various statistical doodlings on the Beautiful Game- and under "ursula no less!- I think soccer has a bright future in this country as old farts like myself die off. It will never be THE game like in Europe because there are too many options in the US (like cable TV channels diluting ratings for any one show) but soccer will definitely find a comfortable niche.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."- H. L. Mencken

by ursula on Dec 8, 2008 3:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fantastic majope!

These stats are just what we need to get really comprehensive.

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it."- H. L. Mencken

by ursula on Dec 8, 2008 3:41 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Skews...

No surprise there was a lack of 23 year olds just after WWI, is it?

There’s also some recent skew caused by the fact that there were a lot of tours won by one guy, who we may have noticed, got a year older with each win. Amazing!

The interesting point to me was that the average age of the peloton was magically near the average age of the winners. The older guys plainly had to have developed their reputations earlier than that median, and proven themselves strong men just to remain active given the churn — it seems likely to me the all-riders by age distributions would closely match that of the winners. This seems to say more that it’s hard to stay in the game as one ages. But as we’ve seen in other sports with better medicine (proper and improper), the gifted seem to be able to hang around longer than they used to.

TBV

http://trustbut.blogspot.com for Landis news, research, and comment.

by tbv on Dec 21, 2008 11:58 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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