Daily Dope
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 10:49 AM EST
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Strange pair of stories going forward, but since they concern two of the sport's biggest stars, it's worth following along.
The fat approaches the fire today for Frank Schleck, as the Luxembourg anti-doping folks hold a hearing to determine if there is any violation inherent in his relationship with OP doc Eufemio Fuentes. Frank is sticking to his story that he just consulted on training tips. This is more plausible than the Dog Defense, but still pretty darn troubling. Stay tuned.
Far stranger is the Tom Boonen saga. OK, the guy did some blow. Now it appears he's taken ecstasy. In short, he's not taking particularly good care of himself, and is either having a good time or running from demons. The more it appears he's a regular coke consumer, the more disturbing it is to a sport that lost Marco Pantani to addiction.
But Pantani was an unusual case, a guy with something akin to clinical depression. Until further notice, let's just assume Boonen is a party-boy. The strange part to me is, what's the violation? In the US, possession and distribution are criminalized, as is doing certain actions while impaired. But simply having dope in your system? I'm not aware that having taken drugs is a crime of any sort. So far, the Belgian press (not the best source) is talking about drug use. If that's all there is, why are they talking about criminal charges?
I know I risk sounding stupid talking about complicated matters evolving behind closed doors on another continent. But so far I'm with his attorney: Boonen is being prosecuted for being famous. I welcome more info on this, and hopefully more than just Belgian press chatter.
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ze problem heer
zeems to be zat (sorry for that, proctoring final exams) that coke culture is much more deeply ingrained in euro-cycling than we’d suspect.
I’m working backwards from the relatively frequent “pot-belge” busts over the last several years to conclude that our heroes are no more immune to the temptations of recreational drugs than are their colleagues in American sports . . . .
(and now for a contrary opinion, Plaxico Burress . . .)
Re Boonen, that's exactly what I've been wondering.
Nobody has accused him of being in possession as far as I know, and it would be pretty hard to prove unless they found some of the stuff on him, which again, as far as I know, they haven’t. But I’m not an expert on Belgian law though….maybe it’s different there.
cuz
they haven’t met yet? ;0
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
Normally Gavia knows the outcome of these things before they even occur
that’s how on top of the interwebs she is.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
You mean she could give a Bruce a run for his gap on this one?
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
the ruling came out.... no infraction, case is closed
there were not able to find anything other than the payment which in itself is not proof of doping so case is closed.
Hm
Is this good? If it’s true, then yes…
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
By true
I meant that there was no infraction. If you’re reporting the outcome, that’s good enough for me. It just sounds like a non-positive, which isn’t as comforting as a negative.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
Will Saxo Bank sweep this under the rug?
If Schleck’s payment to Fuentes isn’t enough to support an official punishment, that’s fine. But as far as I’m concerned, if Bjarne Riis and team Saxo Bank let this go without further public explanation, it tells me that the team is concerned not with actually being clean and transparent, but only with not getting caught doping.
Schleck’s story, as it’s been released so far, is unworthy of belief. As a young rider likely earing a modest salary, he sent 7000 euros off into the ether, in the hopes that it would buy him a training program from someone he refuses to name. It’s only a coincidence that the bank account to which he wired the money belonged to the doctor that other CSC riders, including Basso, Jaksche, and Hamilton, had used, or in Basso’s case, were then using, as a provider of doping products and services. Schleck then spontaneously changed his mind about the training program, just accepted the loss of his 7000 euros, and made no further payments. It’s only a coincidence that Fuentes was arrested two months after Schleck’s first payment, thus presumably ending his payments from all the other riders who were using him for doping purposes.
I’m a CSC fan from way back, and I believe Frank Schleck is probably a clean rider now. I’d even be willing to believe that he never actually started a doping program with Fuentes. I’d like to believe that, in fact. But I can’t believe it until I hear a story that is believable. As it stands now, Scheck’s story is an insult to the intelligence of fans of clean racing. And if Riis expects us to believe that he accepts that story at face value, then as far as I’m concerned, that’s as cynical as Bruyneel hiring Basso in the hopes that the OP shit wouldn’t hit the fan, and then expecting us to believe he was duped by Ivan’s lying eyes.
by Susie Hartigan on Dec 9, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Simple answers to simple questions
Will Saxo sweep this under the rug?
Yes.
This has been another edition of simple answers to simple questions.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Two things.
First, the erroneous assumption that since he is a young rider, his salary is modest.
This I doubt very much as he has already achieved enough palmares to justify a pretty large contract and I am sure he is getting even more through personal advertising contracts.
I’m just saying he’s got enough cash to toss 7000 euros out in order to listen to a doctor talk about training and not worry about his food budget.
Second, the riders you referenced that had previously doped were not under the same scrutiny both from the UCI/WADA, but also from the private monitoring system Saxo has in place. If he was doing something funky, he would have been popped. I don’t think there is really much to sweep under the rug here.
Saxo, the UCI, and the WADA each has a system in place and the riders are under an amazing amount of scrutiny as it is.
People in their 20’s do stupid things and I’m sure by now, or at least I hope, that Frank has had a bunch of conversations about this.
Let it go.
This was 2006
He hadn’t achieved much at that point. Also, CSC riders in that era were not paid especially well. The budget simply wasn’t there. Now, sure, he’s paid well. But then? Not so much.
No one else using Fuentes services ever got “popped.” Why would Schleck have? Of course, he didn’t test positive. Neither did Basso.
March of 2006
is when Schleck paid Fuentes 7000 euros. As Gavia points out, this was before Schleck won Amstel Gold, before he won the Alpe d’Huez stage at the Tour, before he’d really done much of anything to warrant a hefty salary.
More importantly, it was before CSC had their internal testing program in place. In 2006, Schleck was subject only to the same testing that failed to catch Basso, Ullrich, Scarponi, Jaksche, and the other 50-odd cyclists on Fuentes’s client list.
by Susie Hartigan on Dec 10, 2008 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
Tifosa is a very smart woman
I agree with every point in her comment.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Why thank you, Jens!
That’s a fine compliment coming from a gentleman and scholar like yourself.
by Susie Hartigan on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Bwaaaaaaaaaaa...
…aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaahhhaaahhahahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
predictable
I assumed this would be the case. I’m guessing ALAD didn’t want to dig too deeply into this mess. At most, I expected a 3 month slap on the wrist for “consorting,” but we’re not exactly talking CONI here.
Yay, Now get back to racing Frankie, and show me what you can do...
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
And
did he fall off his chair during quesitoning?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
There was photo's I'll have to track down
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
Bah, showing up to CONI hearings is so 2007
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
I soooooo
don’t care. Not to be all judge-jury-executioner, but is there any lingering doubt in his case?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Boonen's doing ecstasy huh
well maybe he will wake up one morning naked next to Bernhard Kohl, that would get him to stop going to those darn rave’s.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
Fine, maybe he will wake up one morning next to a naked Daniele Bennati
you happy now?
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
Oh i'd like to be there for that :-)
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
Phil, what did you just do.
You know have them dreaming with huge smiles on their faces. I have a feeling They’re seeing your image but what you failed to see what them in the middle. Bad Phil. Bad route to go when you know you’re going to be hit with a Benna shot come morning. Ooooooh wait!!!! Maybe this can be the next edition of pillow talk!!! Oh Gavia – where are you?!?! Veloki? Can you help?!?!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
I don't even have the heart to make a fanpost about this article...
CNN is reporting retroactive testing of Beijing samples. And while they mention in the article that they are looking for “banned substances known to have been used in the past by athletes in endurance events like cycling, rowing, swimming and athletics”, the only picture they show is of track racers with the caption “The banned substances are believed to have been used by cyclists, IOC said.”
Fuck you CNN… there are times I hate you as much as the dopers.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
CNN
The least trusted name in cycling news.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
the coverage i saw
said they were re-testing all endurance sports, of which cycling is one. cnn is lame-o.
me, i’d like to see them nail a swimmer or two. nothing against swimmerz, but eh, that sport is not so clean. and pretty much gets a free pass in the press.
Can I get ring-side seats
to the press conference where they announce that Phelps came back + for CERA????
Please Santa Schadenfreude???
by R Mc on Dec 9, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As a cycling fan,
I can’t be surprised by any athlete being “that dumb”, but for what it’s worth, I believe both Phelps and Daria Torres were among the athletes who volunteered for extra testing by the USADA on that “test program” that a few of the cyclists volunteeered for as well.
Team Clean
The pilot programme covered cyclists Kristin Armstrong, Sarah Hammer, Christian Thorburn and Jeremiah Bishop; track athletes Brian Clay, Allyson Felix, Tyson Gray, Dee Dee Trotter and Lauryn Williams; and swimmers Natalie Coughlan, Michael Phelps and Dara Torres.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Boonen case
The prosecutors have asked the judge to open a case against Boonen for possession and use. My understanding is that the decision will be made in January as to whether a case will be pursued. I could be wrong on the process – eh, foreign language legal officials, process and whathaveyou are confusing. Especially before noon.
My understanding is that the penalties are relatively low in Belgium for possession/use, unless they can nail him for dealing. None of the coverage I’ve seen has mentioned dealing, though. If this thing goes all the way, I’d expect a fine/community service type penalty, and not much more.
Possession
Can you make a possession case without finding the contraband, just using witness testimony? Seems awfully silly, short of large quantities.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Dunno Belgian law
But the Tornado admitted use, which would imply possession. Maybe under Belgian law you can convict with nothing more than a confession by the defendant.
They also have a load of evidence from other investigations about Tommeke’s winter habits, where others were happy to finger him as part of the (recreational) drug scene.
I don't know the first thing about Belgian law either...
..but over at CN, his attorney has been reported as saying this:
Boonen’s attorney, Johnny Maeschalck, has not yet seen the file. “But it is clear that Boonen is not getting the average treatment,” he said. “No ordinary Flemish citizen would go to court for this, that is certain.”
That seems to imply, perhaps, that taking it doesn’t count as possession, otherwise surely anyone who did it would be taken to court, if you see what I mean.
Yeah, this is totally a celebrity trial.
The basic scenario -
The government trying to show no one is above the law by creating a big hoopla and having Tom admit he did something bad again publicly. Then they’ll give him a fine and sentence him time doing public service telling kids to not do drugs.
I just don’t know why his attorney is even talking about this in the first place as it really does not serve his client to do so at all.
You can have friends that use and they can share.
It would allow you a very fun night with out ever having it in your pocket.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
Not doubting his use, just whether it was his stash.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
True
though by a horrible stroke of luck, I’m not Belgian.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
Two major takeaways from this post…
1) Don’t do blow in Belgium
2) Don’t tell Chris if you eat an endangered fish
Probably a few others, but those are the two that stick with me…
and put it all together
Whatever you do, never tell Chris when you do blow on an endangered fish in Belgium
just ask a friend to bring it
in a Nike box of course
by lyne on Dec 9, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Blowing on them
is a form of direct take. Also, they don’t like it. So yes, please refrain.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
This coming from the man that once joked about eating a Garibaldi.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
tears......
do stop now OK…..
I came in to this one way too late but a good giggle was had for sure…
blow… fish.. no thanks their not my type.
by Christopher See on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
What I want to know
is whether Tomke has ever done a line off his Roubaix trophy. If he hasn’t, they should write that in when they make a movie about him. That’s what artistic license of for right?
New dope story
New dope story coming out on the interwebs (well actually through all my belgain contacts on fbook)
Iljo Keisse, the biggest European six day star, just tested positive. Not sure for what though
Yes, the rider has confirmed it
Apparently the substance is neither EPO nor CERA, but has not yet been identified. He tested positive during the Ghent Six Days event.
Hm
Not gonna get enmeshed in Six-Day world, but if it’s an unusual drug, this may be a good thing.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
'kay
we’ll see
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
Note to Keisse
don’t eat anymore of Boonen’s homemade brownies.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
And for goodness sake, don't borrow his water bottle.
Or that might be the new image of who wakes up with who in the morning.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
Wasn't there something about Boonen's drug use happening for quite some time?
Is there a possibility that he may have used cocaine during a competitive period when it would have been against the UCI rules? Either way, it doesn’t look good for Boonen. You would think that someone in his position with so much to lose would have a damn clue. Or maybe he has got issues like Pantani that we don’t know about yet. He’s surely a dumbass in any case.
If I just had one more gear, I...
Yes, that was reported
They mentioned his hairsamples indicating that he had used earlier than the occasion when he was caught.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
This is roughly the issue I was wondering about.
What does it say about his psyche if he is taking a X and coke when he knows that there is a good chance he will be tested? Does it say that he is irrational and self-destructive? Heck, maybe it says that he knows that the testers are in the pocket. I swear, I try not to be a conspiracy theorist, but the second explanation would make a lot more sense than the first. It would explain why he would put his multi-million euro job in jeopardy and why so many Belgians (PVP, VDB, Nico Mattan, take-your-pick) have gone so long without positive drug tests.
Quick, someone shout me down as a nut-job.
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Nut job!
OK, not. Sports are full of guys who do things when they should know better. With drugs, the usual suspects are demons in his head that he’s trying to quiet, or simply an outsized sense of his power, a.k.a. ego + stupidity. THe inside job… I think we’d be foolish to say it’s impossible, but I personally would push it pretty far down the list.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Being an exceptional cyclist does not require exceptional intelligence
It does not even require modest intelligence. The only requirement is exceptional physical ability. Maybe Tomeke is just plain too old-fashioned stoopid to think through the consequences?
Well...
Unless he tests positive on an actual race day, there’s no doping infraction. So even if an out of competition came up positive for cocaine, it’s no problem. One wonders if it would even be reported. Probably not – it’s not a banned substance out of competition.
Eh, long training rides in bad weather are boring. Nothing like a little blow to liven things up, you know.
Possibly so, but the same is not true for X
Now that I’ve thought about it a bit more, I realize that Tom has done some monumentally stupid things in the last 20 or so months… But a guy who pees in a cup for a living… Something doesn’t smell right about it.
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Explain?
In the 2008 UCI prohibited list, ecstasy has the same status as cocaine—only banned in competition.
You guys are ridiculously
well informed. I thought X was an amphetamine-esque drug? No?
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think you're right about this one, though.
If you search that UCI banned list for the term “Methylenedioxymethamphetamine,” it pops up under the “banned in competition” section.
Not that it matters much. Ya’ll are still my heros and everything.
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
2 things
seratonin receptors are duped into flooding your brain with the happy juice, and to make sure you capitalize on your good mood by dancing, X makers add in amphetamines. The latter, obviously, could enhance performance. The former would presumably make riders want to be in the middle of the pack, close to all their wonderful friends who they think are so awesome and should be teammates forever!
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, I think I'm getting the picture
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
And no
I don’t know where to get any.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
I love the idea
of a goofily friendly lover-of-all-mankind in mid-peloton.
You mean, like
tickling each other under the chin and stuff like that?
Damn. Maybe he was doing it in competition too.
It was a recent change to the rules
and one that many people criticized. You’re right, yes, X is amphetamine-like, and could conceivably be performance-enhancing. Basically, WADA wanted to cut down on the positives for stuff of margin influence on the results and focus their resources on the shit that really matters like EPO. At least, so the theory went.
Ok, but you sent me a link
I checked the link you sent, and it’s on the list. Did you send the wrong list?
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
eh, i dunno
That was M that sent the list. I was going off memory – that X was treated the same way as cocaine. Am I wrong?
Wouldn’t be the first time ;-)
You guys have taught me a lot.
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I sent the list
and it says what I said it said: cocaine and ecstasy are both banned IN competition—not out of competition. You can do them recreationally all you like, as far as the UCI is concerned. But not while racing. Page 7 if you can’t find it.
That’s opposed to substances that are banned at ANY time, which start on Page 1.
Tell that
to Ullrich. Of course, I always suspected he was punished for running over some bikes.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
You're confusing the issue
Ullrich wasn’t banned under UCI rules:
Some may recall the 2002 suspension of German Jan Ullrich, who was banned for six months after a similar out-of-competition test, which showed traces of the drug ecstasy and amphetamine. WADA has only been fully in control of the international banned substances list since 2004 and Ullrich was suspended under the rules of the German Cycling Federation.—VeloNews
That's great, but
when you look up the term ecstasy, you get this:
Methylenedioxymethamphetamine
And when you put that into the UCI list, you get this:
SUBSTANCES AND METHODS
PROHIBITED IN-COMPETITION
In addition to the categories S1 to S5 and M1 to M3 defined above,
the following categories are prohibited in competition:
PROHIBITED SUBSTANCES
S6. STIMULANTS
All stimulants (including both their (D- & L-) optical isomers where relevant) are
prohibited, except imidazole derivatives for topical use and those stimulants
included in the 2008 Monitoring Program*.
Stimulants include:
Adrafinil, adrenaline**, amfepramone, amiphenazole, amphetamine,
amphetaminil, benzphetamine, benzylpiperazine, bromantan, cathine***,
clobenzorex, cocaine, cropropamide, crotetamide, cyclazodone,
dimethylamphetamine, ephedrine****, etamivan, etilamphetamine,
etilefrine, famprofazone, fenbutrazate, fencamfamin, fencamine,
fenetylline, fenfluramine, fenproporex, furfenorex, heptaminol,
isometheptene, levmethamfetamine, meclofenoxate, mefenorex,
mephentermine, mesocarb, methamphetamine (D-),
methylenedioxyamphetamine, methylenedioxymethamphetamine, p
And…all of that is on page 7
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 10, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
Uh. Yes. Exactly.
To recap:
Gavia: Unless he tests positive on an actual race day, there’s no doping infraction. So even if an out of competition came up positive for cocaine, it’s no problem.
You: The same is not true of X.
Me: X has the same status as cocaine. Here’s the list to prove it.
You: Wait, X is on the banned list.
Me: Yes, it’s banned in competition, not out of competition (which is exactly what Gavia said originally about cocaine).
You: No, it’s on the list.
Me: Uh. Yes. Exactly. Cocaine and methylenedioxymethamphetamine are both on the same list of substances banned in competition—unlike other substances which are prohibited at any time. Which brings us back to Gav’s
Unless he tests positive on an actual race day, there’s no doping infraction. So even if an out of competition came up positive for cocaine, it’s no problem.
Is it clear yet? I don’t know how else to explain.
Thank you
I wasn’t thinking clearly about the distinction. Thanks for your patience.
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 10, 2008 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
don't stress it
the in/out of competition thing is confusing. especially in this case, where it seems like cocaine should be a banned substance just about everywhere.
In his defense
Tom Boonen has not led a normal life for some time. It’s hard to stand in his shoes, but when’s the last time any of us fled our homeland to escape the media? Well, and taxes, but still. In any event, for all we know, he lives under ridiculous stress, or at least more than he can handle.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't think he can be defended
If he can’t handle it, he will hopefully get out before he screws his life up. Bike racing is not life, it’s a job in his case. Life will go on whether he rides a bike or not. Please, everyone, don’t refer to mind altering substances as recreational, there really is no such thing as a recreational drug.
If I just had one more gear, I...
A mind altering substances during recreation?
It is a bit of a mouth full, but I do agree that nothing should be referred to as a recreational drug.
You know, he’s getting to the age where most people typically stop doing that sort of stuff.
Maybe we should just let him display his character by how he responds to all this?
respectfully disagree
there’s nothing in the english language to say that “recreation” is intrinsically healthy, good or beneficial to the individual or society. It is “an activity that diverts or amuses or stimulates.” Drugs that do some or all of those things, and are therefore taken for non-medicinal purposes, are appropriately labeled as such. It is descriptive, not prescriptive.
If we go beyond that in sanitizing language, we should equally refuse to call drunk driving “drunk driving,” because it might imply that people might potentially drive drunk. (Which some do.)
Isn't coffee a recreational drug?
It sure as hell feels like it some mornings. LOL!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
Coffee is recreational
when you linger over a cup after a good meal, conversing with your friends.
It’s medicinal first thing in the morning.
Ok, I feel better now.
Never, ever, work with a sprinter.
by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Dec 9, 2008 4:24 PM EST reply actions
boonen thingy
penalties range from 3 months to 5 years in prison and a fine between 1000 and 100,000 euro. quite a range there.
I used to love Boonen so much. Now, I've tried to erase him from my brain. I hate all this.
Much as I now realise what an idiot he is, please don’t send him to jail!
Hope so.....
And I hope he’s learnt his lesson bigtime. If so, I might find it in myself to support him again.
Me
I’ll have no problem, as long as he’s not part of a disgusting recreational drug ring. Partying? I can’t start judging everyone, for a variety of reasons (lack of info, glass houses, etc.).
Which, barring something terrible, leaves us with this: the guy was crafted by the Gods to win the Tour of Flanders, a race which, by itself, constitutes a huge reason for living. So I’m not really in much of a position to denounce or ignore him.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 9, 2008 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Me too.
The fact that he hasn’t tested positive for party drugs in competition suggests that he is a recreational user, not an out-of-control addict. Young, lots of fame, lots of money—I’m just not shocked. Being kept out of the Tour must have hurt, though. Hopefully enough to keep him away from the illegal stuff in the future.
I tend to agree about Boonen
but I want to stand up for the general principle that lack of information shouldn’t prevent me from judging people. Don’’t you want me to have any fun!
tee hee...
I’m freezing cold tonight and I’m going to have to shovel again come morning so I’m giggling on this one….
Chris mentioned glass houses! How the hell were those college years? Can we get Pete and Drew drunk and find out some more laughable stories in months to come? Can we? Please?!?
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
College
was kind of boring. Well, not really, but the stories about it sure would be.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 10, 2008 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
No definately don't..
I’m staying in same hotel as him in Belgium next year….
Oh did i forget to tell you that…. oh and there is more..
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
Only if he's a dealer..
They probably can’t proof that… Or probably.. They can’t proof that
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
I can't wait to see Boonen race next year..
Bring him to TDU, i say just for warm ups!!!!
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
But Pantani was an unusual case, a guy with something akin to clinical depression.
How unusual? Who was the Spanish rider who died? José Maria Jiménez? Didn’t he also have a coke dependency? There is a culture of chemical dependency within the peloton. That this should also manifest itself in the use of ‘recreational’ drugs is hardly unexpected.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Plus also on the depression side ...
… run the list of cycling suicides (and failed suicides) …
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
OK that's two
How is this the norm? I think in the past the more rampant reliance on truly awful drugs probably caused a higher incidence of behavioral problems, but somehow I doubt more than a tiny fraction of today’s riders are clinically depressed or chemically dependent.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 10, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt more than a tiny fraction of today’s riders are clinically depressed or chemically dependent.
Are you defining chemically dependent as just relying on illegal PEDs or would you consider extending to it all the other drugs in the average team’s arsenal? We’ve seen the declarations of the variety and quantity of drugs teams bring into France each July and read the commentary.
I think we both agree that cycling is cleaning itself up, and that those using illegal PEDs are in the minority. But I think the jury is still out on the other drugs – from asthma enhalers through viagra – still being used within the peloton.
As for clinical depression being the norm … no it’s not. But it’s not unusual in cycling. Either today or throughout the history of this sport.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
general population may be higher
“estimated 5.3% adults (USSG); 17 million people; approximately 4% of adolescents get seriously depressed (NIMH); annually 12% of women ; 7% of men; lifetime risk of an episode for women 20%. 3-4 million men USA” and “7.9-8.6% of adults will have major depression during their lifetime in Canada (Health Canada)” from factoid collection here
Now, if you mean, “prevalence in cyclists compared to other driven young men in great shape,” I don’t know how that skews the numbers.
Clearly a documentary is in order...
… for those of you who don’t know your Moroccan Black from your MDMA…
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
Keisse tested positive for Cathine btw
he says he will retire immediately if his B sample comes back positive as well.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
Totally misread that as "Kässe tested positive for Catherine"...
… and was promptly confused.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
Considering the bizarre ass plot lines in that show...
… it’s a real possibility.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
So like, wouldn't he have a good idea if his B sample was going to?
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
Yes, and I believe he said he expected it to come back positive
so looks like Mr. Keisse is outta here.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
Why make such a snap decision on retirement? He's young enough to come back.
Not saying he isn’t a prat though.
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