Levi - where's the love?

by samboo on Feb 22, 2008 5:51 PM EST Comment 57 comments

OK I'm not a huge Levi fan, but I like the guy. Liked him when he came out of nowhere to podium at the Vuelta way back, liked him when he had the balls to leave USPS, felt sorry for him when he get zero support from Gerolsteiner, even respected his willingness to be 2nd banana at Disco last year twice -- first when they signed Basso and he had to do all of those interviews, then when The Accountant climbed better at the Tour. C'mon he even played water boy for George at US champs in 2006.

But conventional wisdom in the Podium Café community seems against Levi. Why?

*    He's not an asshole
*    He's not (obviously) doping
*    He's not Lance
*    He's a good guy, great teammate, decent albeit boring interview
*    He attacked the Chicken last year for his teammate - I didn't see anyone else doing that
*    Oh yeah, and that ITT where he came within 24 seconds of winning the whole tour.

Sure I wish he were as funny as Dave Z., as good an interview as Horner, or as sexy cool as my man Tommeke, but why do you guys drop all the hatred on the guy? Just cause he's boring?

Even the squeaky-voiced aussie wheelsucker gets more love around here.

Just curious...

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The 2nd Banana Thing

Maybe that's why I don't like him - he doesn't appear to be willing to stand up for himself. First, the Basso signing totally screwed him, and he just took it. I can understand (and even applaud) his stepping aside for Contador last year, but his saying/doing nothing about Brunyeel's constant dumping on him to the press was sad. And then signing with Brunyeel at Astana? That was just pathetic. Leipheimer was writing his own ticket after last year, and he returned to the abusive boyfriend. F that.

by Sui Juris on Feb 22, 2008 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

does he have fun?

Can you imagine him having fun?

DZ, Horner, Tommeke... they all seem to have a sense of humor.

Of course, I don't know the guy, but it's hard to like someone who doesn't seem to have a sense of humor.

He sure can ride a bike, though. Respect.

-Greg

by gregm on Feb 22, 2008 6:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

"Sans panache"

isn't that how the French say it? I like Levi but I wouldn't go much beyond that. He is certainly not one of my favorites in the peloton by a long shot. He wins but he does it in sort of a gray, Tom Hanks in "Joe vs. the Volcano" sort of way. I'm confident that the people who appear to "hate" him around here still respect his skill and results, they just wish someone else was in his shoes like Tony, or Dave Z, or Jens!. Even today, Levi won pretty impressively but it still didn't kick-ass.

I signed his petition because I think Astana should be in the tour, and as futile as the effort is, I wanted to lend my support to that. I even bought an Astana Cycling Team shirt at the ToC for the novelty of it (and it was only $10). But the insults about Levi's wife I've seen around here seem kind of juvenile and out-of-character for this place.

by Jimbo... on Feb 22, 2008 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it either

I like Levi too. I'd like to see him ride the tour.

Maybe people are projecting their dislike of Johan onto Levi?

by roadside on Feb 22, 2008 6:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

that's

part of it, I think.

by Chris... on Feb 22, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My $.02

I'm not in charge of anything here but the editing, so this isn't gospel. This was a source of much discussion in the race thread, so I'm happy to let people hash it out. That said, I don't see the problem. He's less popular than others, but that's about it. All of your bulleted points are true, which is why I don't think he's actively disliked. We had a thread a month ago about rooting preferences, and few riders besides the dopers draw active dislike; the normal range is from ambivalence to love. And most fans don't love everyone.

Also:

He's an Astana, and whether you agree or not, they draw their share of detractors;

He's overexposed in Cali and the defending champ, so it shouldn't be a shock that people are drawn to others in this race, including the numerous other top Americans whom we don't see much of otherwise;

for me, he's a grand tour guy and I have a strong preference for Classics riders.

If he makes it into the Tour somehow I'd probably sorta root for him again, because he'll be up against guys like Evans and Sastre who do even less for me.

by Chris... on Feb 22, 2008 6:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

underdog rooting

I just didn't want to sit through the entire race (yes I watched it all, even waiting for the plane to refuel) with the same result as last year.

I think a fundamental problem with stage races. No matter who wins, it's not very satisfying unless they manage to come from behind.

A surprise win from Cancellara or Millar would have been a treat, because they aren't supposed to win.

Levi's ride with Gesink was pretty stylish. Even though the TT sealed the deal, he won the race there. Cancellara, Dave Z, and Millar should have been able to catch them and blow right by, but they couldn't do it.

-K-

by KevinK on Feb 22, 2008 9:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by gregm on Feb 23, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

from the race thread

Yeah, I don't hate Levi

Just that he's so bland and maybe he's cursed by some LA hangover. That he's following Johann around does not help.

America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed. -Eleanor Roosevelt

by ELVISGOAT on Feb 22, 2008 6:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Also

all due respect, but I don't see how you get to "hatred". I re-read the comments and saw people rooting against him/for others and generally having fun. I appreciate that you're standing up for the guy, but IMHO none of the chatter rose to "hatred" in my book.

by Chris... on Feb 22, 2008 6:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE: hatred

OK hatred was a bad word, but I stick by the "where's the love" question.

Interesting thread, problem in part is that most stage riders win stage races in a pretty darn boring fashion - hide, wheel suck, go over a mountain ahead, TT.

Even Jens! winning Deutschland was boring (may the great teutonic cycling gods strike me down)

Think of how exciting it is when something else happens (The Accountant in Paris Nice last year comes to mind).

by samboo on Feb 22, 2008 6:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

But it is interesting

He's the best American rider, hands down. He's been that way since Floyd was shelved who became the best since Lance retired...

So I can see the lack of panache compared to his two predecessors- even if some folks here are very vocal in their dislike of Floyd and Lance. I mean Floyd and Lance (and many other riders) have signature moments/races/stages while Levi??? Not so obvious.

So Levi is very low key compared to others, but if you saw his interview with Bob Roll at the end of the Vs production of the interminable stage four, he's as cocksure of himself as anyone out there. He knew he was gonna toast the field today, though he didn't say it until Roll asked him specifically. He really doesn't toot his own horn to the press; its like he doesn't know how. Its funny too- and this is said with you in mind chris, about how Tony is a patron and all but the telling of stage 3 by Pena where Levi was just directing the climbs up the two hills, totally owning all the other riders, who all knew it too, just gets no traction here. Odd. In a team sport he would be called a leader in the clubhouse but not a publicity hound, or since the Texas primary is upon us, all cattle and no hat. Here he's slammed for not giving great quotes.

The Astana thing. All I can see is that various people both here and outside here (in other blogs) who think Levi let himself be screwed. This of course is a total projection and it just adds to the ambivalence.

I don't know. I like the guy. I don't love him but then again I don't do hero worship. He's just a damn fine rider, the best American and one of the best in the world. I can take him or leave him as he is no better or worse than Jens or Cancellara or Z or whoever. None of them are better or worse.

Maybe next year we can find some competition for him. Maybe Floyd will ride...

by ursula on Feb 22, 2008 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I am uncomfortable

reading that he and Gesink got together the night before. Teaming up with other riders on the road, as the race develops, OK (It may be technically against UCI rules, but the sport would look completely different if they tried to enforce that). Other riders might have ridden differently if they knew that Gesink was a teammate in disguise.

It's just a sneaky way to win. Compare Floyd's "win" on Stage 17, doping scandal aside, or Cancellara's stolen stage on the cobbles. Catch me if you can moments, right in your face.

by Monty. on Feb 22, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I completely respect you opinion

even though I see it differently. He definitely doesn't have Floyd's... willingness to take on all comers when backed into a corner. If it had been Levi on that stage 17, he would have just gone along for the ride, thinking himself beaten.

On the other hand I see this stage 3 the other day as Levi knowing exactly how it would play out beforehand and using that info to maximize his chances. That's why I say he owned the stage- the other riders were puppets to him with the sole exception being Cancellara. And he took care of that business today.

by ursula on Feb 22, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't dislike him

but be honest, when you're out on the bike do you ever pretend you are Levi, dream of being Levi, like Levi, just beating Levi on the line, leaving him for dead halfway down Huez, or even that the commentators are calling you the next Levi.

If the TdF do letleviride then this July's mano a mano could well be between Levi and Cadel. Paint drying anyone? Watching Wim going for three in a row could be more interesting.

by Monty. on Feb 22, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Go Wim!

Getting last is harder than you think. I have actually tried and failed more than once.

by australopithecine on Feb 23, 2008 10:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hatred

Some of the posts were definitely borderline hatred. The word even was used in at least one post.

by ursula on Feb 22, 2008 6:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

i couldn't find

any references to actually hating LL in today's race thread

by mobilegoat on Feb 22, 2008 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like Levi

I don't like how he acted after the ToC stage was neutralized last year, acting like that was his due because it was his hometown.

I guess in general I never think he "earns" his wins. He always wants to be protected as team leader, so he rides safely in the bunch and takes his wins in the time trials. He rode well for Contador last year in the tour, so why won't he ride that well for himself? You know, go out and grab it.

OK, here's another thing. You know that picture of him on the letleviride website? Who is he kidding? (Think Gene WIlder trying to act like Richard Pryor in Silver Streak when they tried to get past the police.) Dude's got no rhythym.

OK, that's it for me trashing on Levi.

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

by bethie on Feb 22, 2008 6:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Last year's TOC stage 1

Another great example of LL just not caring about any sort of spirit of competition. It's not just bike racing: LL should have the human decency to recognize when the rules are being ignored just to benefit him and say "no", especially when the actual results could've been the highlight of someone else's career.

by poolesville on Feb 22, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes,

that's another reason why I'm not a big fan of Levi. It wasn't his decision, but he didn't speak out about it that I can recall. I became more of a BJM fan that day. He (and teammate Zirbel)had great results today.

by huy on Feb 22, 2008 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Being waterboy for Georgie was LL's downfall

LL was boring and I just didn't care for a long time, but I thought he was actively unsportsmanlike when he worked as water boy for George two years back. I know it's a business and they were going to be on the same team next year, but the most basic element of bicycle racing is that two guys in different jerseys should be racing against each other. Ever since then, I've thought of LL as just short of a cheater, the sort of guy who will pay people off (like Gesink) and generally connive his way through races without actually racing. Evans may not attack, but at least he always races to win, even in one day races like Lombardia that don't particularly suit him.

That said, LL absolutely scorched the TT today and he's clearly an incredible bike racer. No arguing that!

by poolesville on Feb 22, 2008 7:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's the Astana/Bruyneel thing

for me mostly, plus the bland, vaguely "corporate" image. If he chose to ride w/ Slippy or High Road, I'd be more of a fan. Maybe it's cause he's really from Butte, Montana, but all we hear about is Santa Rosa. Butte needs the love.

by huy on Feb 22, 2008 7:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If he came home

and rode for Slippy, I think that would have been totally different.

by Chris... on Feb 22, 2008 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yup

by mobilegoat on Feb 22, 2008 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe one other factor

He's from the pre-Puerto era. I know, he's free of suspicion, but I tend to wash my hands of all those guys if there's a single 20-something around instead. It's partly about turning the page.

by Chris... on Feb 22, 2008 7:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

and yup

by mobilegoat on Feb 22, 2008 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Used to be a fan...

Fan might be a little too strong of a word, but I liked Levi and rooted for him to do well.

That all changed last year.

The way he handled the Tour was pure stupidity. He made it a point to let everyone know that he was going to peak for the third week of the race. At the time I thought this was perhaps some clever psyche job, but no, he really did telegraph his game plan in advance. I suppose you can get away with that sort of thing if you are going to absolutely crush your competition ala Merckx, but otherwise its a rather dumb tactic.

Had he been ready to rock in the Alps, he would have won. Had he put in a first time trial performance even close to his second, he would have won. I lost respect for the guy after he placed third, instead of standing on the top step of the podium, like he should have.

Then he follows this up with perhaps the most idiotic career move in the history of the sport.

I don't want to go off on a tangent, as I've already penned a rather extended post on the Astana situation over at my blog http://www.thevirtualmusette.com/posts/2008/2/22/astanagate.html

Long story short, he just doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. Great rider, but then again so was Ullrich, another physically gifted athlete a few cards short of a full deck.

thevirtualmusette.com

by The Team Chef on Feb 22, 2008 7:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

black socks with white shoes

I just can't get behind that.

Seriously thought, I love the aesthetics of cycling, and Levi is a rider I just don't enjoy watching. Compared to the fluid grace of Zabriskie or Millar or Julich on a time trial bike, or the awesome power of the Adonis-like Cancellara at his best (not so much, today), I find Leipheimer's crabbed-up time trial style difficult to watch.

On the climbs, he's impressively consistent, but again, he lacks the beautiful riding style of Contador, or the exciting bursts of speed you see from riders like Bettini or Simoni. Levi's just not very much fun to watch.

by Tifosa on Feb 22, 2008 7:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Levi Knievel

I love the US champs jersey. He just needs to keep a cap or helmet on his head and it makes all the difference. Maybe a 3-day beard.

Cadel is my Levi. People love Cadel because he can suffer. Nothing not to like, but I can't make myself root for Cadel. The crying about Horner not escorting him up the last climbs?

by phantom on Feb 22, 2008 10:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Kneivel..of course

I take back my quip about Levi shunning his hometown. He is obviously honoring Butte my wearing a kit in homage to it's most famous native son: Evel. Now, if he attempts to jump Balcom Canyon, he'll win the hearts of PdC crowd for sure.

by huy on Feb 22, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm for that!

Though Levi's about the last guy to attempt something of that nature. Sammy Sanchez... he's probably already tried.

by Chris... on Feb 22, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and succeeded, plus he

could have livened up the GC comp at the TOC by gaining time on the long descents on stages 3 and 7.

by huy on Feb 22, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's not hate or intense...

dislike even.

I think what bothers people the most is that he comes across as Bruyneel's patsy, just waiting for the moment the coach decides to give him the chance.

Does he really think he can win the Tour with Contador in the picture? No way. With Rasmussen out of the picture, AC now has the freedom to fly away from the group in the mountains. If only there were going to the Tour.

LL and Cadel are more evenly matched, but that would be the most boring wheelsucker fest ever!

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Feb 22, 2008 10:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't like Levi

He just seems like a terrible person. I've seem lots of interviews with him that make him just seem selfish. Also, he doesn't seem to care for the teem that much either. Last year in the tdf when Rasmussen dropped contador under the 1km to go banner on what I think was the last mountain stage Levin just rode and lewft Contador behind. This seemed a whole lot like he felt his podium place vs Evans was more important than a teamate winning the tour. I also dislike him because of his style. He only focuses on the tour. I love a guy like Danilo DiLuca because he can sprint (sort of), he can climb, he can win classics, and hes won grand tours. Levi's only goal is the tour and yet his best result is 3rd. I have no respect for a guy who's only consistent result is a win in the tour of california and a top 20 in the tour. Atleast a guy like sastre races more than one grand tour. I have way more respect for a guy like that (plus he lives in el barracco, my birthplace). I really, extremely dislike Levi(not going to say hate).

by d rod on Feb 22, 2008 10:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

For me

its the media overkill. I was at the TT today and I was about thiiiiis close from giving Dave Towle a cock punch. He was revving up the crowd for Levi and barely mentioned Dave Z...the American TT champ! Come on! Even the course martials were getting the crowd going for Levi. Like others have mentioned, its not that I dislike him, he wouldn't be winning races if he wasn't a talented cyclinst, but I feel that I have to like others more to counteract the medias biases.

by Hons on Feb 22, 2008 11:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hons

I was about thiiiiis close from giving Dave Towle a cock punch

Hons, you have failed us.

How does that shunning thing work, Drew? Amish thing? Do we have to take Hons' batteries away or something?

by Sui Juris on Feb 22, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In theory yes

but I'm going to cut Hons a lot of slack for two reasons:

He used the word 'cockpunching' in its truest, most honest fashion. Everyone got the same mental picture of someone burying their fist in Dave Towle's package, resulting in him keeling over and being out of commission for quite some time. Laughs and cheering follow.
Cockpunching is still felony assault in 49 states (not in RI, there it's a right of initiation for new members of the state legislature). And until we can establish a Podium Face bail bondsman service* (Moscone's anyone?), I would warn people away from this course of action.

*Chris and I are working on getting a bonds service to sponsor the Cafe, so our members are always one phone call away from getting sprung for cockpunching related activity.

"Only those who are in top condition can say that the Ronde is not hard. For everyone else, it's the Way of the Cross." -Andrea Tafi

by Drew on Feb 23, 2008 8:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

genius

Next year when I'm searching for sponsors for my club, I'll have to sign up a bail bondsman--instant street cred. "A T Bails Has the Keys to the Jails"--a common ad in Cleveland, I'm sorry to say.

-K-

by KevinK on Feb 23, 2008 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who's got the Duke !? Great movie

"I'm saying if I were your accountant"

most annoying person in a movie ever

by Jens on Feb 23, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"You have two ways

of expressing yourself: silence and rage."

That would be a great team name: Silence and Rage - (Lotto)

"Only those who are in top condition can say that the Ronde is not hard. For everyone else, it's the Way of the Cross." -Andrea Tafi

by Drew on Feb 23, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In my defense

I was never actually in the near vicinity of the Towle...just 10 feet in front of a blaring speaker (on the outside of the final corner, in yellow, waving my hands...did you see me?). But today in Pasadena if I am close I will sacrifice myself for the PdC (start a collection). With a banshee yell I will throw myself at the Towle and with a massive cockpunch from these scrawny cyclist arms I will yell "THIS IS FROM PODIUM CAFE!!!!!"

by Hons on Feb 24, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Too many posts to respond to

But, I like Levi. Of course, I'm american, but you have to respect him nonetheless. He geared up to defend his title, and he has done what was promised. I also like Cancellara, but a win for him in this race wouldn't seem so special.

by dheadrick on Feb 23, 2008 12:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

From E-Goat

by Chris... on Feb 23, 2008 3:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

To be clear

This is the handiwork of Elvisgoat, I'm just testing out the link...

by Chris... on Feb 23, 2008 3:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this would be much funnier if it were Dave Z

sporting his Dumas stach (as in Athos, Porthos, and Aramis)

by Scott. on Feb 23, 2008 9:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That collar is not aerodynamic.

and imagine the chafing you'll get from the beltbuckle. This is another reason not to like Levi, any real pro would know to zip up the jersey for the sponsors.

Also agree with most peoples comments on him here. Myself i went from "meh" to rooting against the guy when he signed with Astana. I just can't find a single likeable quality in that team (maybe Eki but it was his on-bike qualities I admired)

by Jens on Feb 23, 2008 5:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It's Bruyneel

He suddenly became a great time trialist under Bruyneel after coming up short in every one prior to that....Anyone want to speculate how natural the improvement was????

by Crazy D on Feb 23, 2008 7:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

For what it's worth

Levi was an accomplished time trialist before he left Postal. Rabobank and Gerolsteiner never work very much on that discipline. Bruyneel's teams do work quite a bit on it as evidenced by Lance's widely publicized time spent in the wind tunnel.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. - G. Marx

by flying dog on Feb 23, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

People love Fabian Cancellara

He rides for Mr. 60%.

Basso rode for Riis when all his problems were going on.

I don't think Bruyneel is any worse than Riis.

by Punctured on Feb 23, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Levi's tt'ing

My problem with it was that he pops off one of the 5-10 fasted tt's of all time in the last tt stage of last year's TDF after not riding a good one ever in the TDF and Contador is able to keep the yellow jersey despite not being a time triallist. Something didn't appear right with that. Its not like Levi is 27-28 but he is over 30. That is why I dislike Bruyneel and Astana. I am in agreement with ASO and the Giro. Too many results that make you shake your head and wonder.

Not saying Riis is a saint.

by Crazy D on Feb 23, 2008 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Contador always a promising/solid TTer

(albeit in Manolos's fun gang) so not really any unnatural development there either.

by Jens on Feb 23, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What bothers me about Astana being excluded

Basso was at CSC when he blood doped. Riis admits the used EPO when he won the TdF. CSC can go to the Tour. Why?

How many guys have gone to CSC who were past their prime and get the best results of their careers?

Rabobank got an invite and they disgraced the Tour with the Chicken.

ASO is being arbitrary - that's what I don't like. Astana is this year's Unibet - excluded just to prove a point.

The problem is that because doping was (or is - depending on your point of view) so widespread everyone's results are viewed with suspicion. Ever director is viewed with suspicion.

by Punctured on Feb 23, 2008 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Petty comment time:

And what's with the teeny little dogs at every finish?

Seriously, I've always respected Levi's racing, especially when he rode the TdF for GST, becuase he was always working alone. But I think his decision to race for Astana is just plain creepy/weird, esp since he probably had other offers.

by Ruthann on Feb 23, 2008 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Levi + Astana

100% in agreement with you. Levi signing with Astana is one of the great mysteries of the cosmos, and I'll never understand why he didn't sign elsewhere. This guy had maybe one or two shots at cycling immortality, and he pissed one of those away.

I did remember seeing somewhere (CN?) that he just assumed everyone would view Astana as the sponsor who stepped in to replace Disco (something to that effect). Of course, that logic still doesn't explain why he would want to be on the same team with two other guys who could place ahead of him in the Tour.

Strange indeed. "Life is like a box of chocolates..."

thevirtualmusette.com

by The Team Chef on Feb 23, 2008 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think

that's really it, for me. Astana?! Why?? Esp. when it includes the guy that just upstaged you, and someone who is almost certainly going to upstage you in the future (Janez).

He had the world before him, and he decided to to back to the abuse at Disc, er, Astana. What a mess.

by Sui Juris on Feb 24, 2008 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In Defense of Levi

Haven't made it through all these posts yet, filled with great opinions and ideas. I just got back from TOC, fortunate to be able to follow it around through the Solvang TT. I've followed cycling my whole life but this was my first time to experience a big pro stage race live.

Some things that come to my mind include:

Levi has a really hard job! Just physically racing each day is exhausting, then add the travel time and effort and its a full day.

Replacing the charismatic Lance is an impossible task. Levi gives a good interview. But all week I kept thinking as I walked around the team busses at stage starts, me and thousands of people, "Don't these guys get sick of all of us?" It's a madhouse of photo and autograph seekers. I don't know how Levi or anyone could maintain the focus necessary to race at that level with the chaos that the race scene is.

by fausto on Feb 24, 2008 12:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs