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New Pedals?

Right before I blew out my ACL I was contemplating switching from my Speedplay Zeros to either Dura-Ace or Keos.

Star-divide

Now that I've had my ACL reconstructed using the patella tendon I wonder if I shouldn't stay on Speedplay. My rationale for switching from Speedplays to Shimanos or Looks was that I felt that  I wasn't getting good power transfer on the Zeros. My concern now is float. Does anyone have experience riding on Shimanos or Looks with "bad" knees?

Less than three weeks after surgery I am on my trainer. I did 30 minutes this morning. I could stand for a few revolutions, but not much more. Still a fair bit of pain putting that much pressure on my knee.

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float...?
it all depends... my favorite pedals are the ones from Crank Brothers, but it's not because of the float. I like'em because of the positive feel I get from engagement/release -- with no accidental "pull-outs" under hard accelerations.

That said, I prefer pedals with no float because I have a tendency to hit my heals against the chain stays. I prefer to ride with my shoes loosened (crude methode to get float) during long easy rides only to tighten them later on when the pace is picked up during the end.

fwiw, I think there's more chance of hurting your knees with pedals with a large swing-- it would be like trying to balance your foot on the end of a pin while applying 1000 watts of power.

lack of stability...?

by orangekick on Feb 9, 2008 8:51 PM EST   0 recs

FWIW
It was with the same ACL concerns that I moved to Speedplay Frogs for a while.  Not the slickest pedal  on the road, but f it, it's my knee.  Very happy with the (enormous) amount of float.  A couple of years after that, I moved back to Zeros.  Not sure that I noticed any difference in the reduced float.

In any event, maybe I'm understanding your characterization incorrectly, but if power transfer feels like it's an issue, I'd look at the shoe (particularly the sole flex) first.

by Sui Juris on Feb 9, 2008 8:51 PM EST   0 recs

poor description on my part
I think the confusion is on my side. I clarified below. More about pedal surface area, I think. But for now I'm sticking with the Speedplays. No pain in my knee, other than what would be normal at this point.

by johnw on Feb 10, 2008 12:41 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Whoa there:
You're worried about power transfer from the zeros?

They don't seem to hold cancellara back too much . . .

Agree w/s.j.: the shoe is a much more likely culprit in power transfer than the pedals.

(And, as an aside: why not try re-habbing on basic old platform pedals?  Once I started paying attention to where I put my feet on my beater-bike, it lead to fairly drastic changes in my pedal-position on the race bike.  Until your knee is stabilized and strong, it might be best not to lock it in too much.  Even with float, if the pedal position locks you into a rotation that's not right for your knee, it's going to cause problems.)

It might be worth having a thorough bike-fit . . .

by R Mc on Feb 9, 2008 10:40 PM EST   0 recs

Speedplay X series
for me (for now).  The 18 deg of non centering float gets my knees lined up just right and I've never stepped out of them in a sprint or hard effort (I have had trouble getting fully engaged after nature breaks), but once in their fine.  FWIW, I use crank bros eggbeaters on my 'cross bike (which is my winter roadie) and Candy's on my MTB.  I'm growing to really like them as well, especially the easy spd style cleat and how easily they shed dirt and snow.  They also have a nice amount of float since the design is allowed to flex a little sideways, but tighten when you pull up on the pedal.  It's a centering float, so cleat position is important, but  the cleats are a breeze to adust unlike the 2 step-screws-that-always-strip process of the speedplays.  I could very easily see myself rotating out my Speedplay fleet for Eggbeaters in the next few years.  
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 10, 2008 8:17 AM EST   0 recs

tough to clip out?
My kneehab is progressing pretty well.

How hard is it to unclip with the knee pain?

-K-

by KevinK on Feb 10, 2008 9:21 AM EST   0 recs

Going tri-mode
I'm not clipping in or out right now. I'm leaving the shoes clipped in, like the tri-guys do for quick transitions. I just slip my feet in and pull the straps tight. When I get off I just to the opposite.

Perhaps "power-transfer" was not the right phrase. Maybe a better description would be power distribution over the pedal area. I have a feeling that the power is concentrated on a small area and not distributed well. I'm wondering if a larger pedal surface area might lead to better feel.

As to pedals, I'm using Sidi 5.5s right now. Very firm.

by johnw on Feb 10, 2008 12:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

surface area
The surface area is generally the main criticism people have of Speedplay.  Some can feel it, others can't.

Float is a matter of personal taste.  For me, it makes tendon problems worse - I'm on the no float program.  But that does mean that I spent a great deal of time dialing in the position.  A badly positioned no float cleat can cause a lot of problems, too.  

My usual rule with bike parts: if it works, don't change it.

by gavia on Feb 10, 2008 12:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

tri mode
Good idea. I can't imagine clipping out of the pedals right now. If I get clearence from the doc this week, I'll be able to ride the trainer with zero resistance. My range of motion went from 60 degrees to over 100 in a week.

I'm with gavia on the float. I've experimented with speedplays, crank bros, and Look Keos. The speedplays actually make my knees sore. When I'm locked down in the Keos, I can ride for hours, and mash big gears without any pain.

I'm not sure that will continue to be the case, now that my knee is F'ed up.

-K-

by KevinK on Feb 10, 2008 1:09 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I have heard
mixed reviews regarding float.  Some knee specialists think it's bad (something to do with the putting too much lateral strain on the tendons to keep in the right position), but others think it helps (allowing a natural motion of the knee during the pedal stroke).  I'm in the latter camp on this one.  Personally I like the float of speedplays, but maybe more than the float is the fact that the release requires no jerking motion that I found necessary with Look style pedals in my pre-speedplay days.  Once you rotate your heel outward enough degrees, you just step out.
Regarding surface area, it's a non-factor if the soles are stiff enough.  
Rode my Eggbeaters this morning on the road, and I would say the release is similar to the Speedplay's.  Just buttery smooth.  I did notice the small surface area under my feet, but I was using a pair of soft soled MTB shoes, so I was expecting it.  
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 10, 2008 1:31 PM EST   0 recs

if you're using
the bare eggbeater pedal without the platform, you'll eventually destroy your shoes. The clamp part of the eggbeater pedal itself will wear a deep groove into your shoes.

by orangekick on Feb 10, 2008 4:32 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Good tip.
I picked up a set for some very old road shoes to use for winter, but if I ever decide to buy a set for my regular road bike, I'll get the platform.  
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 10, 2008 9:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Stick with Speedplay Zeros
Do any other pedals allow for all of the following:  Fore-aft cleat adjustment, side-to-side cleat adjustment, and float adjustment?  I don't think so.  For someone with knee problems it is probably critical to have control over all three variables.

As for float vs. fixed argument, the Zeros can be adjusted in such a way to completely eliminate all float, if need be.  I'm no doctor, but common sense tells me that you should probably have a pedal system that would give you options either way.

Lastly, if you feel power transfer is an issue, I'd try a new shoe with a stiffer sole before switching pedal systems.

FWIW, I've tried a variety of fixed clipless systems over the past twenty years. I switched to the Zeros about six years ago in an attempt to resolve knee pain, which eventually went away by dialing in the cleat position.

Good luck on the rehab.

by The Team Chef on Feb 11, 2008 6:43 PM EST   0 recs

Timely post
I'm building out a new bike and thinking about switching pedals so this is great info for me. Thanks for the knowledge...

by Jimbo... on Feb 11, 2008 7:08 PM EST   0 recs

New bike?
Do tell....
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 13, 2008 10:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Somerville's finest
I went a little nutty and ordered my dream frame, the Indy Fab SSR, the stainless steel one. My wife was not amused... it had better last me a long, long time.

by Jimbo... on Feb 13, 2008 11:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Score!
You will not be disappointed. IF makes fantastic frames, I'm still riding my XC Crown Deluxe from wayyyyyyyyyyyyy back in the day. Treat it right and it will never let you down. If you get a chance, how about a pic?

In time your wife will come to appreciate the finer points of the SSR.

"Only those who are in top condition can say that the Ronde is not hard. For everyone else, it's the Way of the Cross." -Andrea Tafi

by Drew on Feb 14, 2008 9:33 AM EST   0 recs

Certainly
But it's going to be a while before I actually take delivery. They are pretty busy I gather. But no worries... the wait just gives me more time to mull over options for the rest of the bike.

by Jimbo... on Feb 14, 2008 2:24 PM EST   0 recs

That is a very sweet frame.
I would be very curious to hear how the Reynolds 953 steel rides.  Any thoughts on the build?  That bike is just screaming "Record".  Have fun building it.
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 15, 2008 6:25 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Don't listen to Van P
go with SRAM.
"Only those who are in top condition can say that the Ronde is not hard. For everyone else, it's the Way of the Cross." -Andrea Tafi

by Drew on Feb 15, 2008 8:35 AM EST   0 recs

If you're a SRAM fan
 Red would be a nice group.  With some light wheels you could have a 16lb steel bike.
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 15, 2008 9:31 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Price
I wish I could afford Record but at this point it's really a question of coming in under a total budget that will not cause my wife to divorce me. Probably going to be Ultegra to start with. I would love to get Record or SRAM but my bag of money is a little light after getting the frame and I can always upgrade stuff later. I will go as light as I can afford on the wheels. Speaking of which, any suggestions on affordable and light wheels? Are those Neuvation wheels any good? Someone was talking about them here at the cafe a while back...

by Jimbo... on Feb 15, 2008 12:12 PM EST   0 recs

Ultegra 10 is a fine choice.
Nothing wrong with that a t all.  I think the ultegra crankset is a real beauty too.
Vlaenderen die Leu

by Mr Van P on Feb 15, 2008 1:34 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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