Wheelsucker/Honor

by Put 'Em in the Gutter on Apr 30, 2008 3:54 PM EDT Comment 22 comments

Guilty! [editor's note, by chris] one of Cycling's eternal arguments. Read on!

There is one scenario where I can understand the "wheelsucker" epithet. When Hincappie punk'ed Oscar Pereiro in the TdF a few years ago, that sucked. The fact that Geo. seems proud of that moment (his weird housing development/investment opportunity is named after the stage?)baffles me as much as his inability to win a dang monument.

But that's not the way people normally throw the word wheel-sucker around. People seem to think that honor dictates that a pull shirked is grounds for banishment from the cool bike rider club or something.

When you stare someone in the face and say, "I'm not pulling once Buddy," is that dishonorable? Is that wheel-sucking?
And if you close a gap and forget to look behind you and realize that someone took a free tow up to the breakaway, is that a violation of the code?
What about if you sit in the bunch all day and then sprint at the end?
What about...

Come on!!

So what the heck is wheel-sucking? Is Museeuw honorable? Look, don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to make some lame statement like, "Johan was a god no matter what he took." I'm saying that the guy who tried to stay on Museeuw's wheel might have been clean; and you're telling me that the clean guy was supposed to go toe-to-toe with NESP-boy or risk bearing your rapier epithets.

And I have my local NESP-boy just like you do! Talent, NESP, what's the dang diff? I'm gonna beat that guy someday. I'm gonna beat him clean, and I'm gonna abuse him like the bitch he is. No drag race sprints, no, "let's work together to stay away from the bunch," no, "a podium is better than pack-fill." I can't win that way, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna lose.

This ain't a running race and time-trialing is for masochists (that's mostly jealousy on my part). I'm a bike racer. I'm out there to steal your pride, to make you realize that you can't win and to psychologically torture you until you accidentally make the mistake which allows me to take home the laurels!

Honor? Wheel-sucking? Don't be such a sap.

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but tell us what you really think!

[wink]

--JFS

by JFS_PGH on Apr 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Depends, I guess

I mean, it's about whether you're looking for respect with that win, no?

by Sui Juris on Apr 30, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cycling is schizophrenic

It's about cooperation and sharing the work until it's about winning.

In last year's TdF, for example, Carlos Sastre went on a long break to try to steal some seconds back. I think the Chicken hadn't been bounced at that point.

Mayo sat on his wheel the whole time. Some might call that "wheel suckage", and others might say it was tactics.

I'd put it in the wheel sucker category. If Mayo had helped Sastre, and if (a big if) they could stay away, Carlos probably would have gifted him the stage, and Mayo would have moved up a few spots in the GC. But, Mayo contributed nothing, and they were both caught, and Mayo was punished by the cycling gods and dropped.

A problem that a wheel sucker faces is that nobody will help him in future races. That works for a guy like Valverde in certain events. But doesn't work for everyone.

-K-

by KevinK on Apr 30, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let them know

Letting someone know you aren't going to pull is kick ass. You aren't a wheel sucker in an instance like that you are a poker player. It helps when the other guy already knows your strong, but when you look over into a dude's face and let him know his choices are to tow you to the line and get second or get reabsorbed by the pack he just busted his ass to escape it is an empowering moment. Sui Juris makes a good point about honor, but if your now informed break away companion decides to carry on with you in tow then it is no one's fault but his. I recommend everyone does it at least once in their career. Buying the guy a beer later helps to smooth over the now strained relationship.
On the flip side, and although this is minor, those that sit in an entire training ride and then sprint for every line show little in the way of honorable behavior.

by australopithecine on Apr 30, 2008 3:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

George & Oscar: Prisoner's Dilemma

It's an easy game theory problem in a two-up situation after a long break: cooperation yields lower chances in the sprint to the line but increases GC benefits, and so-called "wheelsucking" maximizes your chances of victory at the line. If you're in it for stage wins only, there's very little reason to cooperate once you've held off the peloton.

So I guess that I don't hate George for understanding math. Nor am I all that sympathetic to Oscar for his idiocy in dragging a sprinter to the line. (I'm not an Oscar-hater, though--I thought his ride in 2006 trying to keep the jersey at the end of the Tour was pretty gutsy.)

Oscar Freire Erik prank zabel to arms to the sky and gains the Sanremo.

by Softie on Apr 30, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What's funny

About the Oscar wheelsucking incident, is that he did it the next day to Cadel as they charged to the line and Cadel wanted to gain time on GC. Oscar was towed along only to sprint to victory.

by australopithecine on Apr 30, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"funny"

is one word. "Shameless" and "pathetic" are two others.

Thanks for reminding me though, I've often had trouble putting my finger on what makes Oscar Pereiro so grating. Personally I liked Hink so I didn't hold it against him for beating Pereiro... what was he supposed to do, drop off? Not sprint? Wheel-sucking etiquette is an ever-shifting matter.

by Chris... on Apr 30, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this only makes Jens! more of a hero

for refusing explicit instructions to sprint past (was it Garate??) in the Giro . . .

by R Mc on Apr 30, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hincapie

really couldn't come around Oscar for the majority of the last 2 ks of the climb anyway. I am sure that this has been discussed in everyone's group at some point in time, but that road was choking on orange clad fans. That was the same day the guy got whacked by the motorcycle too!

by australopithecine on Apr 30, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I yelled at the TV...

...SO much that stage.

Pereiro had to know that George wasn't gonna work - he didn't have to!! If George lost the stage, I doubt Lance was gonna say "At least you took your pulls."

What made it worse was that Landis lost time on the GC while Pereiro lost the stage.

by Superconfex on Apr 30, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The fact that he did the same thing

the next day makes it only all the more remarkable that his whining and bad mouthing of George's tactics are still all many people remember, not his victory the next day(Yes, there really are Racing Gods).

"I don't say anything about that, or it will be a disaster." G. Simoni

by flying dog on Apr 30, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a funny line

There are true artists out there who steal wins and never work. Toto Comesso comes to mind. Think of a wiley vet who goads the young turks into doing all the work and then takes the win with a well timed attack. I can respect that.

Then again, there are (admitedly fewer) men like Jens Voigt who will go toe to toe with anyone, but still refuse to take the win if he doesn't feel he deserves it. Juama Garate has cause to appreciate The Jens' honor.

I suppose that is what it comes down to, whether you value cagey, cunning, sneaky tactics versus pure strength and honor. I suppose most value champions like Merckx, Hinault, and Armstrong who have both. If you aren't one of the best ever, you have a choice to make. Everybody needs to win in order to pay the rent, but if you ride too much like an arsehat, you end up in the ditch. If you ride too much like Dudly Do-Right, you end up without a contract.

There is a golden mean somewhere, but there is room to admire the riders who skirt the extremes on either end. There is cunning and there is lazy. I like a good tactical race, but how much respect did Nico Mattan earn for taking the home field advantage on Flecha a few years back? On the other hand, there is honorable and there is stupid. Speaking of Flecha, how many times does doing all the work in a break and then losing the bunch sprint change from laudable to stupid? EVERYBODY want to get in the breaks with him.

If I had my druthers, every race would end up like the 04 Olympics with the strongest man riding away from the field or better yet like Liege in 05 when Vino and Voigt went toe toe to toe for 40kms and let the strongest man win. Otherwise, there is a balance, and the group nature of the sport means that earning a reputation can really help or harm a rider. Suck too many wheels and you don't make the key breaks. Earn a rep for taking monster pulls and suddenly you get in the breaks that matter.

by Koppenberg on Apr 30, 2008 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

err,

when I say Eddy, Bernard, and Lance have both, I mean strength and cunning. None of them gave anything up without getting something worth more in return.

by Koppenberg on Apr 30, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wanting someone to be far stronger

--the sort of superhuman strength--is going to be more common with doping, and reward doping. If everyone is "only" as good as a human body and hard training can make them, most wins will involve brains, tactics, luck and choices.

We're acting like "faster" and "slower" are the only choices when someone is on your wheel. There are crazy sideways/diagonal moves, there's descending better, there's the sudden acceleration on the climb, there's the moment when everyone is pretending to be off-guard...and some pretend too well, and miss the jump.

Presumably, sucking wheel well, when someone would happily shake you--and has all the road in which to do it-- is quite a skill in its own right. (Disclosure: I returned to cycling in my 30's, and still need active cooperation from the rider in front to draft very close in safety. Your feelings on this may differ, depending on your bike skills and reflexes.)

Anyway...If you want to make a break from the group, you chose when to go for it. Fguring out who's likely to go with you has to be part of the calculation...it's not just about your legs and the road, or else we'd run every race as a TT. Fools, desperate men and those who are willing to settle for 2nd will tow a known wheel sucker. Everyone else will drop back if they have a remora on their ass, and will try again later when the remora is boxed in somehow.

--JFS

by JFS_PGH on May 1, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wheelsucker? I guess that title is rarely applied

to a rider that is liked, even if one time that title is appropriate - Hincapie is a prime example.

When a rider is well liked, and typically that means that fans have followed his career for awhile, then a behavior that could be called wheelsucking is often excused. If an unknown rider had done exactly the same behavior at the same race, the scourge of the wheelsuck would have been applied in an instant.

by lyne on Apr 30, 2008 10:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Perceptions

It has been very interesting for me to watch the change in perception around Cadel. Last year it looked like he was destined to have 'wheel-sucker' engraved on his tombstone. But this year, whether from a change in riding style, or simply more attention in the early season, there has been a movement to re-label him.

by Hons on May 1, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Change in style

He's being much more aggressive and people are responding to it. I'm hoping it carries over into July.

"Only those who are in top condition can say that the Ronde is not hard. For everyone else, it's the Way of the Cross." -Andrea Tafi

by Drew on May 1, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh yes perceptions

I think it really depends how media covers a race, how they describe the incident, the riders ..... if a call of wheelsucker is made.

As far as Cadel, I think it's a bit of both, he does seem to be attacking more, or is it that the media talks more about his attacking? And he is perceived as being clean (or cleaner) which a lot of people are now using to explain his wheelsucking years....

perception or reality? dunno

by lyne on May 1, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

I just wrote something like this in the Vuelta thready. Evans has done plenty of attacking in the past - the difference is that this season his big moves are actually working.

by gavia on May 1, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cadel

has usually been attacking but before it just didn't look as impressive as it seems to right now. If he stays strong and keeps going it should be enjoyable to watch da Tour.

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. -Randy Pausch

by nikki on May 1, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hincapie

felt the wrath from the fans in Europe the rest of the summer. He was booed incessantly after winning GP Plouy that year.
I totally agree though that perception plays a major role in labeling the action.

by australopithecine on Apr 30, 2008 10:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs