Who's Mr. 24%?
Pretty interesting race today, with none of the favorites able to fly away on the 12%+ slopes of the Passo Fedaia, the fifth of five major climbs. Understandable enough; the question is, what does it tell us about the stages to come? More immediately, who's looking good for tomorrow's ridiculous uphill time trial to the Plan de Corones?Such an unusual event can be hard to handicap, given the paucity of meaningful data points, particularly among the Italians. But we know what we're seeing this weekend, and we do have last year's uphill Oropa time trial, in which most of these guys participated. So let's break it down, in reverse, a/k/a start order:
10. Emanuele Sella +4.41
Good lord, could he possibly have anything left in his legs at this point? I flippantly remarked that his Saturday win wasn't suspicious but if he won Sunday it might be cause for concern. That's not really my position... but after two days on the escape, if he can win on the Plan de Corones, one way or another it will be an otherworldly performance. More likely, he'll guard his position and let someone else hog the glory for a day.
9. Domenico Pozzovivo +4.04
We might be hearing more from this kid over the years, he's ridden extremely well even while looking after a teammate (occasionally at least). At 25, he's got many passes ahead of him. But no history at uphill time trials to speak of, besides a middlin result last year at Oropa. I'd pick him for a top 25, but nothing more spectacular than that.
8. Jurgen Van Den Broeck +2.50
The unknown... he has a history of decent time trials, lots of top-20s, though one glaring exception is a 50th place on the Oropa corsa last year. Still, at age 24, results of a year ago aren't especially useful. He's ridden very well in every discipline, and might move up a few more placings before this race is over.
7. Franco Pellozotti +2.27
A B-list team captain, but one who's shown all the tools needed for a grand tour. He was somewhat aggressive today, if lacking in the explosive power necessary to really get free. Fifth at Oropa last year while working for DiLuca... so you know he can get a competent result.
6. Gilberto Simoni +1.26
Who the hell knows anymore? His time trial result last Tuesday, combined with his ability to go up virtually anything, would ordinarily make him a top favorite for the stage. But he's looked every bit his age the last two days. Perhaps the shorter course will enable him to unleash that climbing prowess - and sustain it. I'll say yes. Top 3.
5. Denis Menchov +1.20
A favorite to win. Not the fave, but he's looked as strong as anyone else, and likes this discipline. My only hesitation is that he's not the kind of pure climber you'd like on a 24% slope, but it's pretty hard to identify anyone a course like that actually favors.
4. Marzio Bruseghin +1.18
The favorite until we hear otherwise. First, he's won the last two Giro time trials of consequence, including the supposedly telling Oropa event. Secondly, he's ridden well in the Dolomites so far. At some point it's time to stop betting against him. As long as nobody else flies up the last mega-incline, he should be the man to beat.
3. Danilo DiLuca +0.55
Grinta personified: he outdistanced Contador on a course where you wouldn't be shocked to see him lose 3'. The guy just keeps gritting his teeth and willing himself up higher. Another guy who might find the course short enough to battle his way home. I'd bet on a top-7, let's say.
2. Riccardo Riccò +0.33
Putting aside his abhorrent time trialing, nobody -- including the maglia rosa himself -- is climbing better than the Cobra. [Well, Sella maybe.] If today is any indication, he should be poised to do something big, including a run at the jersey if Contador continues to struggle. But... it's a time trial. And he was just as sucky in the Oropa event last year as in any of his flat-course debacles. So can he pretend he's attacking away from Contador and ride like he did today? He'd better, or he really will see Contador's shadow coming up. The race's entire outcome is in the balance.
1. Alberto Contador
If you weren't watching and just looked up the GC today, you'd assume the Giro was in the bag, and the Accountant was in position to demoralize his remaining rivals tomorrow. But our eyes tell a different story: he's been battling gamely, but clearly is not on top of his game. Time trialing is a real strength, and he's no worse than anyone else at super-steep slopes. But Riccò, not he, has been the strongest man in the race. I'd say he loses time, but probably not the jersey.
And that is about as ambiguous and indecisive a preview as you'll read here. We're being treated to something special: an extremely challenging course that nonetheless results in a really competitive, unpredictable race. It's hard to write about with much confidence, but awfully easy on the eyes. Enjoy!
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Good handicap
But i’ll say that there’s no way that Bert does not put time into Asshat. (Yes, I read your comments in the stage thread today. As someone else who is depending on Ricco for VDS points I fully endorse that nickname.)
Ad for the rest though I have no idea who will do better than whom.
by ursula on
May 25, 2008 7:23 PM EDT
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Nice preview!
I’m looking forward to this one. The way the faves are riding, any one of them could win it. This one’s all about who has it on the day. I like Simoni’s chances, but it may be too short for him. It would be fun to see Pellizotti do a good ride – I like what he did today, though he didn’t have the legs to finish it.
I don’t think Oropa tells us much of anything. This thingy is way, way, harder. It’s the Alpe d’Huez on crack. KatieK just posted from VeloNews that Conta has never ridden it, that doesn’t mean he’ll suck, but it does make it harder. Knowing the climb makes a big difference in a climbing chrono.
Can’t wait!
by gavia on
May 25, 2008 7:33 PM EDT
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According to a Velonews article today
Contador did the first half of the ride with the team car, and then rode the gravel part Monday morning before the ITT
The Fedaia, Pampeago and Giau were all ridden as if by brail for Contador, but at least had time to preview the Corones course early before Monday’s start. He drove the first 7.6km in car and then rode final gravel section on his bike. That proved decisive as he decided change from a 34×28 to 34×30.
by Katiek on
May 26, 2008 5:11 PM EDT
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In which case
He must have been up at dawn. They started the first wave of riders at 10am local time, and as they were rolling the gravel after 50 and 100 riders, I bet that they did the same in the hour or so before the start.
by Monty. on
May 26, 2008 6:06 PM EDT
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The difference here
The big difference is that Bert is a time triallist. Regardless of whether Ricco is climbing better, time trials are about maintaining a hard rhythm over the course, something that Ricco cannot really do. Obviously it’s a course for climbers, but not for climbers like Ricco, but for climbers that can also time trial well. Bert is gonna put the hurt on Asshat tomorrow and then it will be over. And maybe Ricco will shut his effin’ mouth finally. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised that while suffering the last two days, Bert hasn’t been giving it his all because he knows tomorrow will be far more important than the last two days put together.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 7:46 PM EDT
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I guess I'm the only actually rooting for Ricco over Contador....
yes Ricco has a humongous ego, but somehow I’m still rooting for him.
and I don’t have either on my VDS
by lyne on
May 25, 2008 7:48 PM EDT
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of course, may the best man win
and oh go Gibo :)
by lyne on
May 25, 2008 7:52 PM EDT
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Yes you are!
It probably has something to do with that gaping hole he calls a mouth.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 7:54 PM EDT
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Nope
I’m pulling for Ricco over Contador. Not a lot of cuddly figures in this race anywhere, except maybe Save Ferris and of COURSE my man SELLAAAA!!! So I’m happy to rack up VDS points with the Cobra.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
May 25, 2008 10:31 PM EDT
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I do think Gibo will go well
We know that he can go well on a hard course and seems to be on blazing form, so I’m predicting that he is probably going to take time on Ricco and DiLuca but not Bert. But I could be wrong.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 9:15 PM EDT
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hmmm . . .
I’m not sure that being a solid time trialist prepares you for having to scale a 24% grade. Time trial efforts are about careful, focused applications of force . . . and getting up a 24% grade is about detonating—and being able to recover enough to finish off the rest of the climb.
[Random comment: I’d look for Sella to practically take a rest day tomorrow. He almost has the verde wrapped up, and it would be much smarter to rest for the last two mtn. stages than to try to do anything tomorrow (that and he has a wedding to plan now . . . I sure hope the bridesmaids or ringbearers don’t have to wear his cast-off jerseys . . .)
I’ve been wrong a lot so far this Giro, and I wouldn’t mind seeing Contador do well, BUT I think this tt blows the race apart. My list of possible time losers amongst the gc contenders:
1. Menchov. This climb just ain’t for him.
2. Pellizotti.
3. Possibly DiLuca
On the other hand—
Could be wrong, but it sounds like Simoni’s been sand-bagging.
And, Contador could put this thing away tomorrow. Although, it might be better to let Ricco have the jersey and kill him off next weekend—poor little Richie Rich will be lost without his Peeps . . .
by R Mc on
May 25, 2008 9:22 PM EDT
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The thing about non time trial riding climbers is
Climbers like Ricco, Piepoli, etc. attack, go easy, attack, go easy. The advantage a time trialling climber like Contador has, besides starting last, is that being a time triallist, he knows how to go hard when needed and when to go a little easier for extended periods of time. Climbers that can’t dole out their effort have no shot, just like Ricco.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 9:33 PM EDT
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Forgot this little tidbit
Never underestimate the advantage of being on a team where time trialling is given so much emphasis. Contador will be much more used to riding hard by himself and will also be wearing the maglia rosa, which will light a fire under his ass for sure.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 9:41 PM EDT
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At this level
these guys have done plenty of solo training, plenty of climbing repeats dosing their efforts over 30, 45, and 60’ intervals. The rider who will do well here is the one who can consistently stay at his very upper limit while still saving something for that final 2K.
And it would help to have ridden the course too. No one likes nasty surprises when they’re not expecting it.
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated."
by Drew... on
May 26, 2008 9:28 AM EDT
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Simoni is smiling.
It’s always dangerous when Gibo is smiling.
Two random non-GC riders: Sorensen and Siutsou. I’m interested to see how they finish on the stage. Cardenas and Garate are also climbers who could finish well.
Agree that this isn’t really about time trialing. Climbing is strength/weight. Who’s strong enough to haul their carcass up a 24 percent gradient? Man, it hurts just to type that. I’m not sure I’ve ever ridden a road bike up a 24 percent gradient. Yoix. Of course, the stage racer recovery thingy is important too. But this isn’t ezactly a normal chrono.
by gavia on
May 25, 2008 9:51 PM EDT
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You'd know if you rode up a 24% grade!
You would just about be standing still on a 24% grade, so you would know.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 10:02 PM EDT
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sure...
I’ve probably ridden 24% on a mountain bike any number of times. But I don’t think I’ve ever done it on the road. Max I’ve ridden is somewhere in the neighborhood of 18% – We have some pretty serious climbing in my neighborhood, but not every climb has a handy dandy profile on the interwebs to give the exact gradients.
by gavia on
May 25, 2008 10:06 PM EDT
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Where do you live?
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 10:14 PM EDT
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there's a stretch
on a hill near where I live that has about 200 yards @ 27% (i.e. it picks up 143 feet of elevation in those 200 yards).
I can’t really compare climbing that to Corones, because all I have is a 3923 instead of the 3428s that most people will be using tomorrow, but it comes about .75 of a mile into a 1.3 mile climb (which levels off to about 10% for most of the rest), so the feelings might be a little similar:
and they are: every pedal stroke of the first kilo of the climb is taken with dread of what’s to come. Anyway: first 20 yards: “this ain’t so bad . . .” Next 40 yards: “WTF???” And so on . . . I’ve seen gaps of a minute opened on that 200 meter stretch between riders who would otherwise be within seconds of each other in a flattish 10-mile tt-mostly because when the grades get that steep there simply is no way not to go above threshold (without getting off the bike); so, any gap opened on that stretch is maintained when it levels-and if someone goes TOO hard through it, their ability to maintain power when the climb levels off will be impaired. But the rider who can go above LT and micro-recover enough to sort of wind-sprint their way up the climb can hold the gap.
So, I’m inclined to think that at least the last couple of k of that climb favor the “attack and rest” (using ‘rest’ in a relative sense here) kind of rider more than the rouleur type of time trialist.
by R Mc on
May 25, 2008 10:31 PM EDT
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Grades
I think every 5-10 percent you add changes the race pretty dramatically, in ways that can be hard to predict. Once you hit the mid-20s, I’d say you’re so far outside of normal that it’s virtually impossible to say who’ll do what. We’re used to seeing these guys hit the super-steeps on long stages, where you can kind of extrapolate what will happen on a 15% slope based on what just happened on a 10% slope.
But 24%—nobody specializes in that. The only people it could favor would be the mighty mites, a la Perez Cuapio, none of whom are factors in the overall
And then you put that in a short time trial… and it becomes impossible to predict. The winner will be someone who can sustain a lot of power on a ridiculous slope at 99% of threshold for a short time. All of this is way outside the norm for what these guys usually do. Any one of the top 10 could be in pink tomorrow, arguably.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
May 25, 2008 10:37 PM EDT
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You're right
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 10:40 PM EDT
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You just described Contador!
He can attack, recover, attack, recover with the best of them.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 10:39 PM EDT
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From Cassani's preview
Ricco is looking to ride a 34 28 (I’m scared of punctuating that is case it screws up the formatting), Di Luca a 34 29.
by Monty. on
May 26, 2008 8:54 AM EDT
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Does 60% = 24%...?
Inquiring minds want want to know.
"I won! I won! I don't have to go to school anymore." -- Eddy Merckx, after winning his first bike race
by ELVISGOAT on
May 25, 2008 9:59 PM EDT
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It would help
as long as you drank enough water to keep your heart functioning.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
May 25, 2008 10:32 PM EDT
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It's more a mental thing
If you are used to riding hard by yourself, you’ve already got a mental edge against those that aren’t. As far as weight ratio weenies goes, Bert ain’t exactly Backstedt, so I think he qualifies.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 25, 2008 10:04 PM EDT
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Quesiont about today's stage and Contadors "Broken Spoke"...
How does having a broken spoke affect your bike and the ability to apply power from crank through chain to contact patch? He said his wheel started rubbing the brake so he had to disconnect the brake?
Stuart O’Grady, the Australian quintiplegic, was seen still climbing to the finish line… using his lips alone.
by crashdan on
May 25, 2008 10:42 PM EDT
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A broken spoke is not a good thing
The simple answer is that a broken spoke can cause the wheel to no longer be true, the rim develops a bend (left to right when viewed from above), which feels like a wobble and, the worse it gets to more the rim will rub in the brakes and eventually the tire on the frame.
While you can be lucky and break a spoke and not even know it, if you are pushing large forces through the wheel (like the Accountant was undoubtedly doing today) the wheel will get out of shape much more rapidly, potentially leading to even more broken spokes.
Standing out of the saddle will also make it a whole lot worse more quickly.
He must have been sorely tempted to change wheels, but it did not seem like there was a good moment to stop and get off the bike :-)
by muk on
May 25, 2008 11:45 PM EDT
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That's pretty much what he said in the VN interview...
... that he felt he couldn’t stand on the cranks only sit and that he dismissed the idea of changing wheels balancing the risk of time loss with the risk of the entire wheel failing. Guess it worked out.
Please oh please oh please let Ricco take 35” on Bert tomorrow…
Please oh please oh please let Ricco take 35” on Bert tomorrow…
Please oh please oh please let Ricco take 35” on Bert tomorrow…
Stuart O’Grady, the Australian quintiplegic, was seen still climbing to the finish line… using his lips alone.
by crashdan on
May 25, 2008 11:50 PM EDT
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From your lips...
to God’s ears.
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
by DemonCats on
May 26, 2008 12:09 AM EDT
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Not that I have anything against Contador, but...
Please oh please let Simoni, Ricco, and Menchov all gain 2min on Bert tomorrow
Please oh please let Simoni, Ricco, and Menchov all gain 2min on Bert tomorrow
Please oh please let Simoni, Ricco, and Menchov all gain 2min on Bert tomorrow
Is it possible? Probably not, but I would give anything to see Bert forced to attack in the final week !!!
by muk on
May 26, 2008 12:47 AM EDT
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Amen Brother!!!!
That’s all I want… hot greasy nasty mountain action.
Stuart O’Grady, the Australian quintiplegic, was seen still climbing to the finish line… using his lips alone.
by crashdan on
May 26, 2008 1:15 AM EDT
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Could Astana really defend a lead
the way USPS used to. I didn’t trust them before the Giro started, but im inclined from what I’ve seen, and from Kloden’s comments, to believe that they really are riding clean, so can’t stamp on the peloton the way they might want to.
by Monty. on
May 26, 2008 8:57 AM EDT
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24%
On my local testpiece hill, which is rumored to be 20+%, water bottles are useless because I can’t take a hand off the handlebars
"Race radios in Cat 4?"
by gravel road on
May 25, 2008 10:57 PM EDT
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teams
Do you see this:
1 CSF Group – Navigare 203.08.41
2 Astana 21.37
CSF are crushing in the mountains!!
by semprenaroda on
May 25, 2008 11:25 PM EDT
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They are pretty much a mountain crushing army
I am becoming more of a fan every stage. Sella is the man!!! I would like to see him in the Tour. I can’t believe that his team is strong enough to have 2-3 guys with him in the lead group and pretty much til the end! That tells you the class of this little team. If I were the owner of the team I would be patting myself on the back everyday of this Giro.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 26, 2008 1:15 AM EDT
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A doubt
In the news, refered Sella like the strongest men, but i think the tactics from the CSF are perfect, however only a guy who climbs very well can two consecutive wins!!
A question.
How the tactics can influence a race like stage 15? Or do you think the law of the strongest aplies here perfectly?
by semprenaroda on
May 26, 2008 12:10 AM EDT
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Eh
I’m tempted to think of tactics affecting the outcome, but everyone looked so tired today…
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
May 26, 2008 1:00 AM EDT
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And "tired" would be an understatment!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
May 26, 2008 1:22 AM EDT
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I'm thinking they weren't too worried about Sella
But if he could time trial they would have to be very worried, he’s a stud.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
May 26, 2008 1:16 AM EDT
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