Landis Appeal Decision Open Thread

by Chris... on Jun 30, 2008 9:57 AM EDT in News

Today, Monday, is the rumored date on which the Court of Arbitration in Sport (CAS) will announce its decision on Floyd Landis' appeal of his doping conviction. Arnie Baker is already doing email blasts for Team Floyd, offering me access to 440 pages of evidence demonstrating all the errors. So they too think today is judgment day.

I suspect the decision will be announced long before I wake up, sometime during early business hours, Geneva time. The decision is to be released at 5pm Geneva time (11am Eastern, 8am Pacific). h/t The Figurehead and assorted time zone sleuths. To that end, use this open thread to fill in the details as they become known, and otherwise hash it out. Whoever logs on first with editor powers, please add an update to this intro announcing the verdict. IIRC, CAS doesn't have much history of reversals, so without speaking to the case itself, I wouldn't recommend Team Floyd getting too excited. But you never know.

Update! Dismissed:

The International Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) dismissed Floyd Landis's appeal of his suspension for doping at at the 1996 Tour de France. In a 3-0 decision released on Monday, CAS confirmed the initial decision issued by a panel of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) on 20 September 2007. "Consequently, Floyd Landis is disqualified from the Tour de France 2006 and is suspended for a period of two years starting from 30 January 2007. Floyd Landis has been ordered to pay the sum of $100,000 to the United States Anti-doping Agency (USADA) as a contribution towards its costs in the CAS arbitration."

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Even the late bird...

CAS:

The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) will publish its decision in the procedure CAS 2007/A/1394 Landis v/USADA on Monday, 30 June 2008 at 5.00pm Swiss time.

Bork, bork, bork!

by TheFigurehead on Jun 30, 2008 5:31 AM EDT 0 recs

Looks like that is 11:00

central time.

by Clydesdale on Jun 30, 2008 8:59 AM EDT 0 recs

try 10am cdt usa

it’s 7 hours

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jun 30, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

http://www.timeanddate.com/

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Jun 30, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

dismissed

Appeal dismissed.

by johnw on Jun 30, 2008 10:56 AM EDT 0 recs

Lausanne, 30 June 2008 – The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) has dismissed the appeal filed by the American cyclist Floyd Landis and has confirmed the initial decision issued by a Panel of the American Arbitration Association (AAA) on 20 September 2007. Consequently, Floyd Landis is disqualified from the Tour de France 2006 and is suspended for a period of two years starting from 30 January 2007. Floyd Landis has been ordered to pay the sum of USD 100’000 to the United States Anti-doping Agency (USADA) as a contribution towards its costs in the CAS arbitration.

by johnw on Jun 30, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

That's disappointing,

but not unexpected. (Yes, I still want to believe in Floyd.)

by cg. on Jun 30, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

Tour 2009: Go Floyd!

Save The Legs!!!

by jack376 on Jun 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT 0 recs

Does anybody think he didn't do it?

I was a big Floyd fan, but I didn’t really follow the trial. So, can truly claim ignorance (my usual defense, BTW).

by dheadrick on Jun 30, 2008 11:25 AM EDT 0 recs

I'd like to think he didn't...

Unlike some others that I’ve believed and then didn’t (Hamilton), I’ve never really turned the corner on Floyd.
All the mess about the lab’s inept handling of samples seems to be stacked against the athletes.

by cg. on Jun 30, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up 0 recs

No. he did it.

by lyne on Jun 30, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

What she said

He did it.

The four positive tests for exogenous testosterone are good enough proof for me.

The CAS panel, including Landis’s handpicked member, the guy who authored the decision overturning Landaluze’s suspension, heard all the evidence and all the arguments and unanimously concluded:

“Although the Appellant had the right to pursue a comprehensive de novo appeal in such an important matter, all of its multiple defenses have been rejected as unfounded. All that the Appellant has established after a wide-ranging attack on LNDD is that there were some minor procedural imperfections.” (page 55 of the CAS decision)

by Tifosa on Jun 30, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

Honestly, I have no idea.

The reason I have no idea is because the evidence presented is so bad that it I cannot in good conscious condemn him, or anyone to the penalty he has, and will now continue to face.

Working in manufacturing as I do, I have never seen any entity so blatant and reprehensibly not follow their own mandated procedures as well as those procedures necessary for their certifications, and those which are accepted as standards of their industry.
Did I mention I work in factories in Taiwan and China?
Inexcusable; just plain inexcusable.

Maybe he did do it, but with enforcement done as it was recorded in this case, along with the astoundingly salacious conduct made by all those entrusted with leadership regarding these issues I feel we, as the public will never really know.

That, in my opinion, is the most egregious crime of it all.

by Ryan_Liles on Jun 30, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up 1 recs

yup.

by Sui Juris on Jun 30, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Uh ... seriously?

“We’ll never really know”?

Are you guys kidding?

“Salacious conduct”?

They found foreign testosterone in the man’s urine. Not just foreign particles or unexplainable elements - foreign testosterone.

The evidence, might I add, for the exogenous testosterone in his blood was not “bad,” “shoddy,” or “salacious,” though it’s a testament to Floyd’s defense team that people are not clogging message boards with the words “salacious” and “due diligence.”

You’ll never know anything for 100-percent certainty, and that includes whether up will remain up or down will be down —but given the sport’s history, given Floyd’s membership on teams known for chemical assistance, and given the presence of foreign testosterone in his urine! -- the probability that Floyd Landis used a testosterone cream or patch to aid recovery after stage 16 is incredibly high.

He is a great guy, friendly, down-to-earth, and a terrific bike rider - all these have nothing to do with it.

by 72andSunny on Jun 30, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah, seriously.

First, I do respect your opinion and I do feel the backdrop you have given does raise logical points.

That said, did you actually read how the samples were managed? I control the heat treatment process we use on 6061 Aluminum better then that! Almost every step of the entire process from the time he pissed into the cup was handled incorrectly which culminated with the operator of the machine to analyze the sample who stated under oath that she willingly and knowingly did not follow the documented procedures outlined in the labs manual and that which is held standard internationally for that process.

This aint’ a pregnancy test where you piss on a stick here and if it changes color your positive. This is some extremely sensitive equipment requiring precises and consistent procedures. Which, under oath, the operator stated she did not follow.

Did you forget all the things Dick Pound, and many other leaders said about Floyd Landis in to press long before the trial even started? It was truly unbelievable.
I’ve seen WWF wrestlers act with more dignity then Dick Pound.

In all sincerity, I feel that if you read the info in this case, and you see the reports of the analysis made by some of the most respected people in that industry you will see there is significant room for error.

That’s the thing about science!
If there is a significant room for error, the test in deemed invalid.
If the test is invalid, there is nothing to convict Floyd.
That’s just the way it is, or at least the way they document the way it supposedly is.

I’m not talking about how cool the guy is, I’m just talking about the facts of the case and how the people entrusted to handle these matters acted.
I just don’t want another athlete to have to deal with this sort of thing.

by Ryan_Liles on Jun 30, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up 2 recs

At the end of the day - the test for foreign testosterone was positive and done right

While I agree the first sets of test that must come up positive to trigger the test for foreign testosterone were totally botched, at the end of the day the testosterone test was a bright line type test (either it is or it isn’t result) not an interpretive test. That test came up positive as did the samples from 4 other stages. So while I was hoping the CAS would take a swing at the labs and tell them to get their act together on testing standards it was pretty clear to me he was doping.

BTW, I have wasted my time and read all the transcripts and evidence from the USADA hearing.

Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland

by natbla on Jun 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Uh...

Four stages worth of positive exogenous testosterone in an above-board, cleanly handled test? Sunk.

Look, Landis failed a drug test, then tried to impugn the labs, and most importantly raised some questions about that lab’s legitimacy. Still couldn’t wriggle out of 4 positives, though, could he?

And you have to admit, the ‘experts’ avowing their was ‘significant room for error’ were, as CAS stated, vested emotionally in Landis’ case. Just as the USADA’s experts stated that the significant room for error was still not great enough to negate the findings.

Again, we’re going with probabilities here. Given the evidence, including the alleged ‘shoddy’ lab, the probability that he did it? Very, very high.

Like I said, most people, myself included, really like Floyd Landis —or most people are shocked -- shocked, I tell you! Wite-out on test tubes? Unobserved protocols? - at the ‘shoddy’ labs.

Neither of which, given the samples of exogenous testosterone in his blood, change the high probability that he did it.

by 72andSunny on Jun 30, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Looks like

more ice cream and beer for Floyd.

by pooziepie on Jun 30, 2008 11:54 AM EDT 1 recs

There is a fuller judgment

here, 58 pages in a pdf. I’ve not read it all, but paras 263 and 264, just before the conclusion are pretty damning:

The liesfraud/forgery cover up theme was part of the Appellant’s avowed plan … “our defense was essentially to take down the French lab in an embarrassing way” ... However, when it emerged …. that the evidence would not support the strategy it should not have been pursued further.

and they didn’t think much of Floyd’s expert witnesses either (261):

The panel also finds much force in the Respondent’s contention that the Appellant’s experts crossed the line, acting for the most part as advocates for the Appellant’s cause and not as scientists objectively assisting the panel in the search for the truth.

by Monty. on Jun 30, 2008 11:54 AM EDT 0 recs

Just finished reading it.

Conclusion: I just wasted those minutes of my life.

by Sui Juris on Jun 30, 2008 12:02 PM EDT 0 recs

Longtime Fan, first time contibutor

I’ve been a long time fan of Landis, ever since I saw him pulling Lance up the mountains I thought to myself, ‘this guy should be wearing yellow rather than slaving for the great one.”

I was more than thrilled the day I walked into a bar after a long day of coding to see Floyd riding back into yellow. I knew he could do it.

Being a long time fan of cycling, I wasn’t shocked that he tested positive but was definitely disappointed. I was really upset that the protocol wasn’t followed properly in the announcement and some of the lab work.

However, I am glad that the decision stood. For too long I have seen the sport suffer due to rich athletes that can sue the federations into bankruptcy in order to avoid following the rules on PEDs.

It’s really too bad it had to be Landis. It’s been such a tragedy for him not to lose the yellow jersey, but to lose his best friend and father in law.

All I can say is that I hope he can put it behind him and make a comeback. The way he rides a bike cannot be produced with drugs. It’s a shame he took that path. But I am glad the sport has been able to stick to the right path and not be intimidated by money and lawyers. It’s a ruling that bodes well for the sport.

by Bill Basso on Jun 30, 2008 12:24 PM EDT 0 recs

umm

For too long I have seen the sport suffer due to rich athletes that can sue the federations into bankruptcy in order to avoid following the rules on PEDs.

Who did this?

by Sui Juris on Jun 30, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can imagine..

Boonen , Schumacher and Kloden.. But just speculations.

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jun 30, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

None of them have sued the federations, much less into bankruptcy

by Ryan_Liles on Jun 30, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

That sentence is over my head..

What means bankruptcy?

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jun 30, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

bankruptcy

Bankruptcy means no money. No job. Car repossessed. Wife is mad since credit cards don’t work. Kid mad since you can’t afford G.I. Joe with Kung Fu grip for Christmas present.

Imagine the sport federations in the eighties. Their budgets were modest in comparison to today. USA Cycling was not bankrolled by the Lance Armstrong machine. If a guy making a million a year, probably more than the entire USCF budget back then, decided to take drugs what could be done to stop him?

He test positive. Federation informs him privately as is the rule. He says, go public and I sue you into obliteration for liable. Has lawyer send mean nasty letter. Federation takes letter to their lawyer who is probably cheap, smells of booze and not good enough to even work as a public defender. He councils apology. Feds maybe gets nice gift, stay in business and everyone keeps jobs. Bike press keeps out of it. US wins medals. Federation get more funding.

Landis was one the first guy who didn’t have this ability. Not only that but he was also on the bad side with Tailwind Inc(who basically owns USACycling) after defecting from Disco he signed his own positive test result.

Not that I know anything for certain. But it’s reasonable speculation. Sports politics is like sausage—you don’t want to know where it comes from.

by Bill Basso on Jun 30, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Woah

and this whole time I thought the butler did it…

by Hons on Jun 30, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

I really can't remember the details off the top of my head now

but the old governing body for British Athletics pretty much went bust over a drug case back in tne nineties.

by Monty. on Jun 30, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

much older than that

What I was referring to was in the eighties: guys like Grewal, LeMond, Phinney. It was always the rumor back then. Especially after Grewal got reinstated after testing positive in the Coors ahead of the Olympics. It had all the feeling of the result of a smoky back room deal.

It’s hard to say what was real and what was speculation on who was doing what, but that the Federations were ignoring doping in fear of litigation costs was something commonly known and discussed by riders and officials back then. The shadow cast on the rest is unresolved since the tone of omerta was set from the top. Rumors that races such as the Rocky Mountain News Classic would test, but ignore results out of litigation fears, seemed to be more than rumors in light of Grewal’s recent revelations.

But I don’t want to dwell on the past. Too many riders were cheated, especially the ones who were allowed and encouraged to dope and today are crippled, dead or irreparably damaged. I am relieved by today’s ruling and the direction the sport is headed.

by Bill Basso on Jun 30, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

ah

thanks for the explanation.

by Sui Juris on Jun 30, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

And on the the Punitive Fees

Again, not surprised by the decision, but I’m also disgusted by the unprecented step of charging him $100,000 of the cost of the appeal.
Either an appeal is allowed or it isn’t.
It hardly seems an impartial judgement that the basis for his defense is characterized as setting out to “embarrass” the French lab when his future (and that of other athletes) is dependent on them doing their job competently, independently and consistently.

by cg. on Jun 30, 2008 12:42 PM EDT 0 recs

How about this for a reason then

The out-of-pocket costs for Respondent’s side of this proceeding on appeal included transportation, hotel and meals in New York city for nine witnesses whom Appellant demanded be present in person for cross-examination and then elected not to call (approximately $60,000) (para 285)

by Monty. on Jun 30, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

My $.02

My opinion is that I don’t have one. This is strictly personal (and repetitive) but I don’t see the point. If you’re someone who wants to come down hard on the sport for its indiscretions, then there may be some value to you in believing he did it. If you just love the sight of great racing, there may be some value in believing he didn’t. And the USADA issued a split decision, so either way you wouldn’t be crazy.

But for me, I’ll always remember Morzine 2006… and I’ll never know what to do with it.

On another note, does CAS ever reverse on procedural matters? Seems awfully unlikely, though you’d think any court would flip a case just to suggest the possibility of due process.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jun 30, 2008 1:19 PM EDT 0 recs

+1

But for me, I’ll always remember Morzine 2006… and I’ll never know what to do with it.

My tin hat theory about 2006 will never go away. I think Floyd was set up, all the way through that tour from the slashed tire on the time trial to the testosterone slipped in his massage cream the night before Morzine.

60% of the time, it works every time.

by bethie on Jun 30, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

+1

But when I take my tinfoil hat off I think Phonak was crooked as a snake.

"I won! I won! I don't have to go to school anymore." -- Eddy Merckx, after winning his first bike race

by ELVISGOAT on Jun 30, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ah, Morzine

Guilty or innocent, clean or doped to the gills, Floyd’s performance that day is what got me back on my bike after too many years away. It was inspiring like that.

by Jimbo... on Jun 30, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah

It was a good ride. Inspriring for sure. Too bad that’s it’s now discredited.

by dheadrick on Jul 1, 2008 1:16 AM EDT up 0 recs

Just let it be done

Next up to bat for riders vs. the Inquisition…Michael Rasmussen. After checking himself out of rehab for Anorexia he tried the second best thing to massive weight loss in time contraints. Mexican water and bean frijoles.
Better yet, why don’t we just say the reset button has been pushed and get on with it.

by spokejunky on Jun 30, 2008 1:20 PM EDT 0 recs

Transfer rumor

Landis signs four year deal with P-Nivo Betonexpressz 2000 KFT.SE

by Jens on Jun 30, 2008 1:57 PM EDT 0 recs

Ha

Do the riders have to wear multiple jerseys to display the team name?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jun 30, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Probably just use PNB2KS for short

It’s easier than you would think to pronounce in hungarian.

by Jens on Jun 30, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

Italian TV

has been playing that game for years

by Monty. on Jun 30, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

lol!

Defintely a nice helper for Marcin Sapa!

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jun 30, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Are weightlifters trying to steal the "worst cheaters" crown from Cycling

Bulgarian weightlifters will have to wait a lot longer to compete in the Olympics.

In the latest scandal to affect the sport before the Beijing Games, the Bulgarian weightlifting team withdrew from the upcoming Olympics after 11 of its athletes tested positive for a steroid.

Eight members of the men’s team and three women tested positive during out-of-competition checks on June 8-9, a federation statement said Friday.

“As a result, the Bulgarian Weightlifting Federation took a decision to withdraw its national weightlifting teams - men and women - from participation in the Olympics,” the statement said.

by Punctured on Jun 30, 2008 2:45 PM EDT 0 recs

Key difference

With weightlifters, they don’t need blood tests, they just ask them to empty their pockets. Usually you can find the steroids in there.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jun 30, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Chris will not

be repeating this joke the next time he meets the Bulgarian weightlifting team.

by Sui Juris on Jun 30, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

Question of the day

How do you separate the 3 female bulgarian weightlifters from the 8 male bulgarian weightlifters ?

by Jens on Jun 30, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

By height?

"Hey, hey, settle down boys and girls or Krusty will have to bring out his old friend Corporal Punishment again."

by Drew... on Jun 30, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's not 100% accurate

but one way is to show them a picture of Benna and the ones who bend their barbells in the shape of a heart are the females.

( As there is a margin of error in this method, it may be wise not to bend over for the soap if the test yields more than three barbell-hearts.)

by Jens on Jun 30, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

For Gavia

1 of 100, only 99 more to go! ha ha! Oh and Miss Gavia, if CrashDan or anyone else taunts with that nasty pic then my duty to make up for it ends on the spot. But if they all missed it, I will do my best to fulfill my obligation! On we go…