Podium Cafe: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Steve McNair Found Shot to Death


Wanqueur du Jour!

Spanish rider, Manuel Beltran of Team Liquigas has tested positive for EPO. The A sample from a test conducted on 5 July after the first stage of the Tour de France contained traces of EPO, according to l' Agence Française de lutte contre le dopage, the AFLD. The 37 year old, who has been professional since 1995, was among those targetted for additional testing after screening tests carried out on 3-4 July prior to the Tour.

In the early evening Friday, French police descended on the Team Liquigas hotel. It is unclear whether the police found anything in the hotel, but Manuel Beltran was taken for questioning by the gendarmes, who represent a special anti-doping unit. Beltran will not take the start for tomorrow's stage.

Preliminary reports suggested that the team would fire the Spanish rider immediately, but Team Liquigas has now said that they will await the analysis of the B-sample before deciding the future of the rider. For now, the team has suspended Beltran fro competition. Liquigas also confirmed that they will continue to ride the Tour de France, as the contract the teams signed with the ASO does not require that they withdraw.

Manuel Beltan began his career at Mapei, and subsequently rode for Banesto, Ullrich's Team Coast, and Armstrong's Postal/Discovery. He has predominantly ridden as gregario and counts only a few victories in the shorter Spanish stage races among his results.

Source, Original Story, 10.12 am, PST: l'equipe.fr, Damien Ressiot.

Update, 07.12.2009, 8.34 am, PST: Today's press reports that French authorities have released Manuel Beltran from custody, after questioning him for two hours. The search of his hotel room also found nothing incriminating. A preliminary inquiry has been opened on the case by judicial authorities.

0 recs | Comment 222 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Podium Cafe

Comparing The Grand Tour Teams

Apr 2009 by ursula - 95 comments

Comments

Display:

if nothing else

chapeau to the vampires for the quick turnaround. Lets just hope that accuracy wasn’t sacrificed to get this out before the race hits the mountains.

by Hons on Jul 11, 2008 1:29 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Crap, crap, crap!

Just when i thought we would have a sportfocused Tour.
LIQ , why am I not surprised?

Any clean LA lieutenants left?

by Jens on Jul 11, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well said Jens

Anyone who thinks Armstrong is innocent has their head in the sand.

by EuroPeloton on Jul 11, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

fourth former lance lieutenant

to be nailed for doping. others were heras, hamilton and landis. another nail in the lance doped coffin? one has to wonder…

by jfs3rd on Jul 11, 2008 5:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

see the difference?

They were caught while not riding for Lance or his team…

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 5:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well...

did they learn from the master but not quite pass the “test?” maybe when signori dr. ferrari held a class on how not to get caught they were absent that day?

ok, a little harsh but i think it all adds fuel to the question about la and did he or didn’t he.

by jfs3rd on Jul 11, 2008 5:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, they must have been stupid

since only LA could bribe the UCI and the labs!!

enough of LA, sorry for bringing this never ending story up.

OP, anyone?

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry for sanchez, too.

as this will now become today’s headline rather than his stage win.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 1:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This stinks,

hate to see it dominate the news when the race has been so intersting, and generally getting good press so far. Plus now tthe guys at VS are going to have to work overtime to find video of Beltran riding his bike backwards to update their ads.

by Katiek on Jul 11, 2008 1:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

WTF was he THINKING??!??!?

After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe

by crashdan on Jul 11, 2008 1:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

business as usual

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 11, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah

If you’re 37 and doping now, it can’t possibly be a new thing.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll wait until this is confirmed,

Ressiot is not exatcly the most relieable journo out there…

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 1:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

huh?

his doping stories have all been confirmed so far. not sure he’s unreliable. he just has great sources.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

did he catch Lance?

as far as I know, he still has the 7 victories.

I have no idea if LA cheated or not, I don’t know what happened there, but the Thorpe story was really, really low.

So I’ll still wait until this is confirmed.

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 2:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

i’m touching that lance thingy ;-)

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 2:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol,

just made him as an (bad) excample…

we can leave it there, sorry.

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and even if he did - everyone else was

Go Team Zoe!
Cavendish, Di Gregorio, Fothen, Kirchen
, Kreuziger, Lowe, Siutsou
, Ten Dam
, Y.Trofimov and Vandevelde

by ZoeRochelle on Jul 11, 2008 5:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

Amen sister…

After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe

by crashdan on Jul 11, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doh,

Guess VeloNews idea of a good health tour just went out the window.
People please, the temptation is just too great. Espially when you are used to the game.
But, maybe if they keep bustin fools, they will eventually give up?
Word to tha mutha, straight outta Aurillac

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?

by CannonDowell on Jul 11, 2008 2:03 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why would a gregario be loading up on this stuff anyway?

It’s not like the guy is making a huge salary, or is reported to be preparing for some new goal of being a GC contender.
He’s 37!
He is almost at the end of he career which should have been the end of this year, or maybe next year at the most before he would be far too past his prime.

That is the part which doesn’t make sense.

by Ryan_Liles on Jul 11, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

probably needs it to finish

cynical gav says: think he’s ever ridden a tour clean?

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 2:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As I recall

He was the only other name, besides LA, linked with the back tested EPO samples from 99.

by australopithecine on Jul 11, 2008 4:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

according to velonews, one of several

article which leads here and gives the additional names Bo Hamburger and Joaquim Castelblanco (as suspected).

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 5:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The gregario-defense is useless

If anything it’s those guys who have been juicing the most to be able to handle the inhumane workload.

by Jens on Jul 11, 2008 2:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and...

as they are unlikely to win stages or wear leaders jerseys, they are unlikely to be tested. or, at least, that’s how the game was played.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 3:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

-1

I will be 37 this year.
Thanks for reminding me that I am getting too old to hang with the hipsters.
Guess i’ll turn to pop rocks.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?

by CannonDowell on Jul 11, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No problem man... I'm 34...

... we can sit on the porch and yell at all these whippersnappers to get off the lawn.

After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe

by crashdan on Jul 11, 2008 2:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sheeeooot

Y’all wait till your a touch older… 30 old? bah that makes me ancient and I’m only 45, and still refuse to grow up!

Now who’s in my seat on the porch swing and where’s my dad-blasted lemonade you young punks….

by Fred Marx on Jul 11, 2008 4:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

44 here

cool is as cool does.

by R Mc on Jul 11, 2008 4:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh heh

Let’s just say Dan, Sarah and CannonDowell should all get off my lawn… but I should get off R Mc’s and Fred’s. Just.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 6:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It makes for an interesting mental picture...

... a terrace of crotchety 30 and 40something cycling fans all yelling at the guy on their left to get the hell off their lawn.

After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe

by crashdan on Jul 11, 2008 6:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where's Monty? Maybe he'll get this reference

“Get off my show, mate.”

60% of the time, it works every time.

by bethie on Jul 11, 2008 6:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry

Is it from some rubbish British sitcom from the seventies?

by Monty. on Jul 12, 2008 9:15 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm really late to this thread as I was pretty bummed

but, can I just say – you are all welcome to camp out on my lawn anytime. :-)

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 12, 2008 8:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Being older is a big reason to dope.

Your strength, stamina and testosterone are weakening. For a pro athelete getting older must be hard to handle.

Go Team Zoe!
Cavendish, Di Gregorio, Fothen, Kirchen
, Kreuziger, Lowe, Siutsou
, Ten Dam
, Y.Trofimov and Vandevelde

by ZoeRochelle on Jul 11, 2008 5:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

and the number of paydays is dwindling rapidly. Let’s face it, the incentives are all $$—can I make more if I cheat? At least for a domestique; why else would he?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 6:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not a surprise.

The recent article (I’d link, but can’t remember where I saw it) on the difficulties involved with catching EPO users with current testing procedures was quite revealing and alarming. I fear EPO micro dosing is still a big problem. Some of these guys, particularly from teams without an internal testing program, still think they can get away with this.

by The Team Chef on Jul 11, 2008 2:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

quick!

hide the hair gel!

hopefully, possession of massive quantiites of hair gel is not a criminal offense under french law. the police search will certainly find plenty of it.

as a side note, nibali and kreuziger have joined the i’m doping free thingy with cunego.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 2:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

silly, eh?

it’s some amateur cyclist in italy who came up with the idea. he sells tatoos – temporary ones – for 1 euro each. kinda hokey.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 2:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

si...

i put it in a gossip column a week or so ago. the smiley face made me giggle. i couldn’t resist.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That logo is so bad

that I’m tempted to start doping

by Jimbo... on Jul 11, 2008 4:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hokey

but I don’t begrudge it at all.

(Still like the modified version I’ve seen else where, where the colon is replaced with a semi-colon. )

by Sui Juris on Jul 11, 2008 3:01 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, Cunego looks clean

as he gets dropped on any climb steeper than 2%. Maybe the new ink is weighing him down.

by EuroPeloton on Jul 11, 2008 3:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How ever this story turns out,

it has spoiled my Tour already.

I was so pissed that Astana (the few teams with an inside AD program together with Columbia, CSC and Garmin), got booted, for ridiculous reasons.

Think what you want of the team, but if they pass the tests they should’ve been there, unlike Liqui that has NO anti-doping program, as doesn’t Rabo, Lotto, Liqui or Caisse have either….

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nah, don't let it spoil it

We knew this was coming.

I nearly posted a diary asking for bets on when we got our first positive, just before the tour. But I decided to try and uphold the myth that we’d get a clean tour.

It would take someone like CVV or Voeckler to get nailed to spoil it, for me.

by Sui Juris on Jul 11, 2008 3:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

si...

not if, but when. with all the additional testing they were throwing down, you knew someone would make a mistake and get caught out. this too shall pass…

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 3:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well at least they are doing more than the other teams??

I never said passing a dope test ment they were clean, but the likehood that you have a ad-testing within your team makes it more likely that the riders are clean, no?

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"passing tests"

I think Bruce used that as shorthand for demonstrating a clean profile. In the case of teams using extensive testing and providing months’ of various data from which trends can be detected, that’s more than passing a test.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thanks for clearing my point,

sorry for my bad english, it’s easier to speak than type…!

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 5:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bruce -

I hope you don’t let this spoil this tour. I would be very disappointed if a positive or two to three would not be found. We know there are idiots who are so used to it that they will not be able to go with out. I much prefer them being caught and quickly and and cleanly being removed. Send out the message and continue to discourage it. I hope the riders continue to make the stand that THEY won’t stand for it either.

For it me, I’m finding this to be a really really exciting Tour. The course and stage mix ups done have been pretty exciting so far. This is so far from a dull first week. It’s kept me (painfully) on the edge of my seat all week. I’m super excited and I’m finding some comfort in believing in the riders I love. We have to keep catching the bad guys. This is not the worst thing. Disappointed in him but happy he got caught.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 12, 2008 8:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wasn't Triki the rider

whose salary Lance paid personally the year after he retired? So that he could be kept on the team?

by NE Observer on Jul 11, 2008 2:41 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so he's the one with the goods on Lance, you mean?

Time for an extortion probe? That would at least be new and different.

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah. But he was still a part owner

and when Johan said there wasn’t enough money in the budget to rehire Triki for 2006, Lance undertook to pay the salary out of his own pocket. Or so I read.

by NE Observer on Jul 11, 2008 6:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so what happens next?

Is he now suspended or dq’d? Does anyone even wait for his B-sample? Is Liqui out of the whole race? What is his suspencion if the B-test is positive too? And what happens if that’s negative? 1-2-4years? TdF not under the UCI rules, so he could maybe race UCI races?
What a mess.

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 2:56 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thus begins

the descent into madness. They can say it’s all because of one rider, but unlike other teams Liquigas haven’t done their part to stop the problems.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

btw, off topic

but there are some comments from cunego today in gazzetta. wanted to translate, but uh…

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 3:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now this is serious, two Grand Tours without Bennati!

by Katiek on Jul 11, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No worries

Since I have my five gigantic fathead posters of Benna around my bedroom- and I suspect you do too- then not seeing the Most Beautiful Man In The Peloton is not a problem.

by ursula on Jul 11, 2008 3:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha :-)

I have to confess, the absence of Benna would really make the Vuelta less interesting.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Vuelta

verging on negatively interesting. I mean, once you hit zero interest, then what?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

si...

it will be hard to rally for this thingy in Spain.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Leaky quote

From CN’s coverage:

“We will await the outcome of further investigations and at the same time, albeit with pain, we are prepared to take stricter measures, with full respect for the values that has always been evident in our team.”

Now they’ll get strict? Sorry, I can’t follow everything they do about doping, but between this and the hasty Basso signing, they are a PR nightmare.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:11 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep

You can book their non-attendance now.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll take that bet

No 2009 TdF for the hair-gel-armada

by Jimbo... on Jul 11, 2008 4:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if that's true

how come cofidis is there this year?

181 & 165

by callmecayce on Jul 11, 2008 8:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

depressing

As an alternative to the tattoos, I like the “clean is cool” line of cycling clothing from a major German online cycling shop.

http://www.bobshop.de/en/article/anti-doping-jersey-clean-is-cool-1/

by cyclingchallenge on Jul 11, 2008 3:15 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like it!

Vaguely similar to Barcelona’s anti-racism kit from recent years. Too bad it’s priced in Euros.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

since it was contested at the time...

I left this bit out of the main story. But:
In the ‘99 samples case, there were three riders who returned positive results for epo during the prologue according to the report written by Ressiot. One of those three riders, I believe, was Beltran. Little wonder, he joined the list for targetted testing.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup

I was going to point the 99 tests out as well, but I’m trying to hang back re: the doping thing. In part because I think the other guy who had EPO in his 99 urine is a bigger part of the problem then the guys still using hotsauce.

On the one hand, I’m like Mr. Hand. (Fast Times at Ridgemont High), on the other I HATE the way riders who are unlucky enough to get caught are treated like they are the entire problem. i.e., “now that we’ve got that dirty cheater Tricki out of the way, we can go back to a clean tour.”

I’m glad he got busted and I hope his example will change some minds, but he’s a symptom, not the disease itself.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 11, 2008 3:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Too right

and I doubt they’ll ever be completely rid of the disease. Though I have to admit I prefer that the cheater be caught than the situation in, say for example, the NFL, where there is flagrant drug cheating but everyone turns a blind eye. Good message to be sending the kids, eh?

by Le Comte on Jul 11, 2008 3:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shmucks

Can we just fast-forward to 2010 or something, when all the guys from pre-Puerto are out of cycling? The peloton is generally changing its ways, but clearly not all the old dogs.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats why you want to vomit when you hear Amadio

Already spreading “the one bad seed”-comments. I just wish they would catch one or two of the dirty teammanagers redhanded so they could hang some of those out to dry as well.

by Jens on Jul 11, 2008 4:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think so

Fuentes was with ONCE at that time, wasn’t he?

by Le Comte on Jul 11, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ONCE? Or Astana as we should now be calling them

No, I’ve just checked and at that time he was the Kelme doctor.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 5:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Banesto

is now more or less Caisse d’Epargne, although the lineage consists mostly of DS Eusebio Unzue, now that Jose Echevarri is retired. Anyway, they’re not linked to Fuentes or Once.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 6:07 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no...

they had someone else – i’m forgetting his name right now.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The name that usually comes up in these stories

is Jose Aramendi of ONCE and US Postal.

I don’t believe he worked for Banesto.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 11, 2008 6:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

aremendi, yeah

i was thinking of him. but wasn’t there a doc that worked with indurain? or was that aramendi. bah, i get these idiots all confused.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

'kay, i'm out for now

lol, let me know if anything exciting happens ;-)

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 3:38 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm emailing you!

nothing urgent.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow

making a criminal issue of doping may well be the solution …. it would terrify me

(and cyclists have cute butts)

by cyclingchallenge on Jul 11, 2008 3:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've got no sympathy for dopers

but I really don’t think it should be a criminal matter.

by Sui Juris on Jul 11, 2008 4:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Me neither in principle

But do you think David Millar would be doing what he’s doing for the sport right now if the french police hadn’t hauled him in and given him the Sipowitz-treatment?

by Jens on Jul 11, 2008 4:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I always thought that Millar got locked up for possession

not for testing positive. He had the EPO vials in his house, right? Anyone know the legal story with Millar?

by Jimbo... on Jul 11, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He'd

erm, kept the empty syringe as a souvenir. As you do. He was never charged because the police couldn’t prove that he had injected in France.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks

That new doping law linked to above sounds like it only applies to trafficking, not to usage, and the toughening up part was just to increase the minimums. Maybe usage was already illegal in France as sporting fraud, or something like that? But if not, I would wager that unless Beltran had a box of the stuff, he will just be spending a night or two in jail like Millar did…

by Jimbo... on Jul 11, 2008 5:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I vaguely remember Millar

saying something like the police threatened to keep him in jail until he confessed. Whether that had any legal standing or was just a bit of good cop bad cop is a different matter.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 5:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

si...

that was part of the story, yes.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

um, well, if it happens to be illegal to have it...

not as a racer, I mean, but as anyone without a prescription…
once it’s in the news, are the cops supposed to turn a blind eye?
(We can have the “should possession of any drug be illegal” argument again, but…let’s not, this once.)

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exactly

In most cases the use of the drugs in question would require a prescription. No prescription, Mr Beltran? You’re busted.

by johnw on Jul 11, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

True

But of course, that would be illegal, as well.

by johnw on Jul 11, 2008 6:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

also, france is a sporting fraud country

that is, it’s a criminal offense to dope. not saying that’s right or wrong, just how it is.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

right

No, I get how it is. I just think that it’s wrong.

by Sui Juris on Jul 11, 2008 6:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes, odd especially in that it's perfectly OK for riders to make a deal

as to who will win what in a stage (e.g. when the riders of a break work together, or any other way). If playoff teams in other sports shook hands and said, “We’ll win this one by two points, and let you win the next one, so they playoff goes to seven games?” You’d have a massive investigation info fixing. (That’s why I have always wondered about people who bet actual money on the outcome of a stage or race…raw talent and stated goals are only the starting point for strategy.)

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 11:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Technically it's not OK

somewhere in the UCI rules is one that says something like “riders from different teams may not work together” But what would the sport be like if they tried to enforce it.

by Monty. on Jul 12, 2008 9:17 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that, and...

There cooperation on the road, where by teams or riders with common interests work together and there’s buy and selling stages. The necessity for cooperation, that’s built into the sport – if the riders in the break don’t work together, they will be caught. We expect when we see a GC rider work with a stage hunter in a break that the GC rider will not likely contest the finish. Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. I don’t know the unwritten rules of other sports well enough to come up with an analogy, but it is how the sport is played in cycling. In this way, such cooperation is transparent. We are surprised when it doesn’t happen.

Buying and Selling, well, yes that does happen. Everyone knows it does, but it is never to be spoken of publicly, because if it came to the ears the commissaires it would be sanctioned. This was part of the flap over the Simoni-Basso fireworks at the Giro a year ago, and the federation called both riders in for a chat.

So, I see no contradiction between the rules and sporting fraud laws.

by gavia on Jul 12, 2008 11:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Didn't France

tighten up its criminal laws again before the TDF?

by Katiek on Jul 11, 2008 4:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If I were...

the DS of Columbia, Astana, Garmin, or CSC I would find it mighty tempting to whisper in say Roman Kreuziger’s agent’s ear that perhaps he might like to jump ship.

by ursula on Jul 11, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why? LIQ will only have trouble getting into ASO races

They can still ride…......eehhh….... the Eneco Tour….... can’t they?

by Jens on Jul 11, 2008 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

si...

good chance he gets bought out, i think.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was wondering that too.

I went with Kreuziger because he ain’t Italian and that’s all. Nabbing Nibali would be a coup too.

by ursula on Jul 11, 2008 8:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hee Hee. I misread this at first
News of the positive test was confirmed by the Amaury Sport Organization, which runs the Tour, and the French Anti-Doping Agency, after it was initially reported by L’Equipe, a French sports daily that is also owned by Amaury.

I thought they were saying ASO ran the French Anti-Doping Agency. That would explain a lot. Then I saw the comma.

by Punctured on Jul 11, 2008 5:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, not really

They got Basso; they’ll win the Giro. All will be fine.

by ursula on Jul 11, 2008 5:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there is a story here I think

about how this race is being examined by the french anti-doping agency and not under UCI rules due to the ASO – UCI argument.

I am not suggesting what the story is ….. but definitely a story (several different and obvious angles)

by cyclingchallenge on Jul 11, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to spread baseless rumours

but there is some speculation on French forums over whether Moreau was one of the others who got a letter. No-one quite understands why he just stopped and got off his bike.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

interesting

i wondered if it were something like that when he suddenly abandoned. clearly, i’m not the only one. but wouldn’t he have been prevented from riding sooner under the french anti-doping regime? heh, hard to say, really.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess that

we will all be watching the start line extra carefully tomorrow to see who has come down with a mysterious sickness in the night.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 6:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

probably so. that, and sudden drop-offs in performance. because they haven’t been thrown out of the race per se, only warned about their levels.

ricco is probably one of them, given his history. <- unconfirmed speculation

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

guess i'm still skeptical

that too many french riders are involved in lettergate. mostly because they would already have been under this kind of scrutiny.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dunno.

Jegou abandoned because of a broken wrist. but the reasons for Gadret and Moreau are unclear. Even Moreau’s team’s statements are completely ambiguous – check out this eurosport.fr article

by lyne on Jul 11, 2008 6:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that is interesting

i saw that article, but hadn’t had the chance to read it. very bizarre. i feel very suspicious today.

jegou, si, we all saw that crash. he had surgery, also, already.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 6:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd hate to be a tree in France today

when everyone starts looking for believable ways to abandon the race.

Roadfurniture and eager spectators should also use caution today.

by Jens on Jul 12, 2008 3:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But then don't forget

Vaughters’ “rumors and speculation about which I have no personal knowledge as to their truth or factual basis” that “Moreau never had a hematokrit over 39”

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 6:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only report I could find...

... from The Guardian…

Former French champion Christophe Moreau was one of three riders to pull out of the Tour de France on Friday.
Agritubel’s Moreau, fourth overall in 2000, retired at the feed zone with 73.6 kms to go during the seventh stage, a 159-km ride from Brioude to Aurillac.

Article (such as it is) here...

After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe

by crashdan on Jul 11, 2008 6:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Moreau is a baby

and always has been. If one thing doesn’t go well he bags it. I am not defending him, just saying he has a history of quitting. I would guess this is a case of the quits.

by australopithecine on Jul 11, 2008 7:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.fr eurosport...

...said it was due to trouble with his back, during the live coverage today.

-Greg

by gregm on Jul 12, 2008 1:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Beltran-Armstrong

I never thought the smoking gun on Beltran was his association with Armstrong. He only did one good Tour for Postal—in 2003. He was weak in 2004 and 2005, and wasn’t even good enough to be selected for the Tour in 2006.

The smoking gun was that he suddenly improved again dramatically in 2007 at age 36, finishing top-15 at the Tour and winning stages in other events.

What’s weird about the whole USPostal phenomenon is how many guys dramatically improve their performance after they leave—and that they all seem to get caught.

by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 11, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't get me wrong

I think USP/Disco had some sort of team doping program, including some combo of testosterone, maybe IGF/insulin, maybe EPO minidosing. But it was small stuff, aimed to help a few mountain domestiques recover a bit better. Several of their quality Tour riders probably weren’t in on the program at all. In fact, I think USP guys were just into the doping culture enough to be morally relativistic about it, but taking so little that they knew that they were at a huge competitve disadvantage relative to guys on other teams and probably Armstrong himself . The frustration led them to the far end of the dark side once they left.

Landis, Hamilton, Heras, Beltran. Pena obviously went darkside to finish top-10 GC at the megadoped Giro. I wouldn’t count out Boonen or VandenBroeck, even though they left at a much younger age…

by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 11, 2008 5:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Counter-theory

If some/any/all of your top guys are dirty, you may want all of your small guys to be implicated, in some tiny way, as well. (At least, anyone who knows about a bigger guy doing it.) To squash blackmail, and the “disgruntled employee” syndrome.

(Ever been the person who doesn’t want even a cosmetic puff at a passed joint, and gotten the suspicious, “will s/he turn us in” look? Then you understand that sort of group-think.)

I do buy the idea that low-level use removes a barrier to later use at higher levels—it’s a “virginity loss” process. (Heh…that makes Rock Racing a “reclaiming virginity” operation… pretty funny… maybe they can all join promise keepers.)

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 11:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

French News

seems to be playing this down a lot. The news programmes I’ve seen start with a race report and then finish it with a little PS about Beltran.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Italian TV

isn’t even discussing the Tour.

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 5:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Of course not

I mean, it’s calciomercato season. Also, what’s Roberto Mancini wearing now?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 6:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So, if ASO were sticking by their own rules,

they’d dump and fine every team whom’s rider tests positive?

Didn’t think so too either…

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know,

but that’s what ASO said.
Is Ligui getting now a 100.000 euro bill to fund the ffc?
Ridiculous.

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 5:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now you're being negative

just look at all the column inches they are getting in return for that 100.000

by Monty. on Jul 11, 2008 6:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha!

I’d take the 100.000 euros, fine thanks, if I had won the lottery or earned the money some other way, like closing a big deal etc. But busting a rider for doping and earning money??
I don’t like it.

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Heh

Hey, the one distinction with Astana is the two years’ worth of headaches. Having said that, don’t shoot, I’m the messenger.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 6:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm...

Telekom=T-Mobile=High Road=Team Columbia.

That is almost a decade of doping, where their docs were busted for a massive drug program.

+ Most of the DC’s & ex-riders have admitted doping…

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 11, 2008 6:21 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Si

but all those guys are gone. Wait… never mind.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 11, 2008 6:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ASO must be regretting the 'contract' they signed with the teams before the Tour

where it states that if a rider is found positive, it would be up to the team to decide if it sayed or not unless it was found (somehow) to be team-approved/managed doping

by lyne on Jul 11, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Naw, that was a good deal for both sides

the ASO can point to it and tell critical advertisers that “it is out of our hands” and the teams can continue to turn a blind eye to the riders obeying their unspoken instructions.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 11, 2008 7:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We need several more

Jesus Manzanos and Jorg Jakshes to come clean and verify whether or not systematic doping existed within teams.

(I’m sure that several types of doping programs-team run ala Saiz, free-lance ala Raimondas Rumsas, and “nudge-nudge, wink-wink” ala Giancarlo Ferretti’s “advice” to Dario Frigo-existed and probably continue to exist,

SO, the sporting sanctions need to be shifted so that the principals of a management company (e.g. Riis Cycling, High Road, or Slipstream—but NOT necessarily the sponsoring company) loses the right to organize sponsorship with companies or contract with riders for a specified period if one of their riders is deemed to have tested positive after all of the various appeals processes have worked through.

AND cyclists need to risk a work stoppage in order to develop a meaningful cyclists’ union. In that sense, the collapse of the UCI might be a good thing if it could prompt the emergence of a powerful riders’ union.

by R Mc on Jul 11, 2008 7:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Part of me says "what a good idea"

The rest of me says, “the cyclists’ union, such as it is, mostly worked AGAINST doping checks and controls, for years.”

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 11:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

agreed

and the model of strong athletes’ unions like in MLB and NFL isn’t exactly encouraging, either . . . but the situation for cyclists as it stands in professional Cycling, where you can have a tool like Michael Ball who engages in highly questionable hiring/contracting procedures, and is then celebrated for throwing a small chunk of cash towards an injury pension fund, is all but intolerable.

by R Mc on Jul 12, 2008 9:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HEY R Mc! Step away from the rational thinking there!

Come on! Step back and no one gets hurt! More clear thinking like that and you’ll be in trouble!

by ursula on Jul 11, 2008 8:40 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

VS is showing their prime-time coverage now, with absolutely no mention

of Beltran’s results. I know it’s a taped show, but I thought for sure they’d have a “crawl” like last year.

One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. - George Carlin

by Ruthann on Jul 11, 2008 8:42 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

other doping news (like the new title for this thread BTW): VV blood bag is still/again in play

Spanish Authorities have 6 months to hand over VV’s bag…or…else….what? The CAS will ban Spain?

by JFS_PGH on Jul 11, 2008 11:14 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

si..

this is the piti barks post below ;-)

and yes, i thought a little editing was in order… just cuz.

by gavia on Jul 11, 2008 11:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In Murilo Fischer diary

he not say much more.

Only was relieved that Liquigas continue in the Tour, and today it bit a circus at front of hotel, with many reporters.
The all team was surprised, and had a big tension in the team.

“Às vezes agente acha que conhece bem as pessoas, mas depois se engana com elas, muito chato isso.”
Sometimes we think that we know well that person, but afterward we made a mistake.

by semprenaroda on Jul 12, 2008 12:45 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

National biases

It is always a bit strange for me how fans and media of a given country can turn a blind eye to their own stars re: doping and yet criticise others

I can’t understand why David Millar is such a hero and seen as a role model by so many brits. Bizarre. I find it nauseating that after being caught red handed he now feels he has the right to lecture others about doping.

Likewise, the french lionized guys like Virenque despite his part in the Festina debacle and yet many love to throw dirt at Armstrong.

Personally, applying tough criminal charges against blatant dopers is a great idea to save the sport.

by cyclingchallenge on Jul 12, 2008 2:03 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Every sprint, every cobble, every mountain pass from the world of Pro Cycling
Start posting on Podium Cafe »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Tuco_1_small
ROAD RACE: Nat'l Champ. Repository
Unicorn_160_x_160_facing_other_way_small
VDS: National Championship Bonus Points

Recent FanPosts

Jim_small
The Pursuit of Green
Small
The Tour de France Stage 2
J0397446_small
Versus live streaming?
Small
Giro Donne – Stage 3
Small
Tour de France Stage 1
Small
Giro Donne – Stage 2 Time Trial
Small
Giro Donne – Stage 1
Small
MY OPINION ON THE TOUR DE FRANCE
Bowling_small
I have a strong feeling how Versus coverage is going to go
Small
Giro Donne – Opening Prologue

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

Our Sponsors!

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Greipel gets win 11
Jamie Barrow wins Maratona dles Dolomites
"Cancellara will be top five"
A Tour de France Primer (for Americans)
Best Tweet Ever: And It is By Brad Wiggins!
Kim Kirchen (Team Columbia-HTC) Recovers from Broken Collarbone in Time to Ride the Tour de France.
Theo Bos suspended 1 month
Joe Parkin, "6 Years in a Rain Cape"
Pearl Izumi parody of cycling controversies, this one focusing on the what-ifs of performance enhancing clothing.
This video is an attempt to show the ambience at the final hour of the Nice Ironman competition. A lame attempt i'll admit, but wth? If you're ever going to finish towards the end of an ironman, i suggest Nice as the place to do it. The applause and support and general ambience at the end is really remarkable. Dj's, pom-pom girls, people dancing, shouting, dance music blasting ... Some finishers just go on through, others raise their arms or just have a huge smile, one guy did some pushups while the dj counted for him, another did a cartwheel, some ran through with their little kids holding their hands. And this all 8 hours after the winners have finished. 

When i went out my door to walk over to see the last hour or so of the Ironman, the first thing i saw was a guy across the street, pushing his triathlon bike, head hanging down to his chest, walking with a pronounced. Painful. Slow. Trudge. Medal around his neck. He'd done well. Hope he felt better the next day.

Then i got to the promenade and started seeing more of the people who'd finished: one guy asleep on the pavement with his wife by his side in all the raucous noise and confusion and crowds everywhere. Then the medical tent - massages, those heat blanket thingies, oxygen, people limping aorund, Oy! 

Then every now and then you see a finisher with a medal around their neck who look fresh as a daisy, like they've just had a nice walk in the park.

Then finally you get to the finish line ... and that's the video. At the end there's a fireworks display (no one timed their finish to coincide with it this year) and then apparently a few hundred people stayed all night to party on the prom next to the beach until daybreak.

I could not do an ironman even if i wanted to, but i'll be there again next year to help welcome the last finishers in.

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini