Champions of a Different Road
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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PrintToday's stage was largely about three of the biggest names in Cycling: Kim Kirchen, Alejandro Valverde, and Damiano Cunego. We all know what happened to them, and with the possible exception of Kirchen I think we know who these guys are.
Ranked #10 in the world at CyclingQuotient, Kirchen is the Champion of Fleche Wallonne, the mid-week Ardennes classic with the huge finishing climb. Kirchen excels almost anywhere, a guy who's been third at Brabantse Pijl and who races the Tour of Flanders as a way to get ready for his Ardennes campaign. He has multiple top-20s at all three of Amstel, La Fleche and Liege-Bastogne-Liege. He's also got a 7th at the Tour, second in the Tour de Suisse and Tirreno-Adriatico (both in '07), and two national titles of Luxembourg, one road and most recently the chrono.
Next, the World's #9 rider is one of the world's most consistent producers. Since achieving the top ranking for the 2004 season, Damiano Cunego has never ranked lower than 12th, and since October he's racked up two wins in huge races (Amstel and the Giro di Lombardia) to go with four lesser wins, a third in La Fleche, fourth in the Tour de Suiss and Pais Vasco stage races, and fully twelve other top-ten placings. Since October. With two wins at the Lombardia monument before his 28th birthday, he may well own the race before he's through. While less consistent and versatile than Kirchen, Cunego is a nearly unstoppable finisher.
Finally, there's Mr. Unbeatable, Alejandro Valverde, world #3. Two-time winner of Liege-Bastogne-Liege, in the last month alone he's won a Spanish road title, the Dauphine Libere and two stages, and the opening stage of the Tour de France. He has few peers in one-week Spanish regional tours, and even fewer in the closing stages of an Ardennes classic. Only Amstel Gold, where he's been third and sixth, has eluded him that week. On form, nobody can stop him in a dash for the line after a day of climbing. Since 2003 he's only spent one season outside the top five world ranking.
All three of these guys are champions of the Ardennes in 2008. All three are young and exciting racers who, in their element, are battle-tested and proven winners. They are stars of a generation, now in its prime, which is staging epic battles -- against each other and some additional riders -- all around Europe. These guys will be winning huge races for the foreseeable future. It just won't include the Tour de France.
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So true. Sad but so true
Who says everyone has to win the Tour? Nobody. The classics are the classics for a reason. A Tour winner is, and rightly should be, a special breed. Evans may not come off as a spectacular winner but nobody can say that he doesn’t give his all. He races from the beginning of the season until the end. Valverde and co. have nothing to be ashamed of, they just need to be realistic and prioritize. Stage hunting in the GTs and racing the classics. Those are great goals. In the end, consistency and durability are what makes a person a Tour winner. Evans proved after crashing yesterday and riding so well yesterday and today that he is one tough SOB to go along with his consistency. I think this is one of the best Tours in years, regardless of Astana being here or not. I also think it’s time for CSC to either promote one of the Schlecks or go buy a GC guy, this is getting ridiculous.
If I just had one more gear, I...
I just worry
that Evans will win this Tour by attrition.
A (fun) champion looks for opportunities to stamp his marl on the Tour with an emphatic win (see LA most years)
But I struggle to see much competition to Mr Steady.
by cyclingchallenge on Jul 14, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
Well
there’s a reason he was the pre-race favorite. He knew what he had to do and, thus far, he’s doing it.
Though, I too, would like to see him at least win a stage, though I think the stage he’s likeliest to win would be the final ITT, and I would prefer to see the TdF winner win at least one mountain stage…
Evans
Not attrition IMHO. He’s one of very few guys who can handle the highest mountains in a grand tour. Elite cyclist in both disciplines. Credit where it’s due from me too.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Only not gonna make it...
He has the yellow jersey 10 days to early… To much pressure on him. He can’t handle that and haven’t seen his team anywhere around.. Popo couldn’t even make the first real cole! Secon CSC is showing some really power.. I will be surprised when he take the jersey to Paris..
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
Evans will give away the jersey
He’s smart. He knows that it is too early. I am sure that he just wanted that feeling for a day or two. Now he’ll give it away intelligently.
If I just had one more gear, I...
That's how everyone wins the Tour
It might be disguised as someone taking the race by the cajones and possibly winning some stages, like LA, but basically he won by attrition also. A three week tour is about who can suffer the most for the longest amount of time. If Cadel wins this thing pretty much by himself, that will be way more impressive to me than a bunch of hired mercenaries putting the wood to everyone for 7 Tours in the mountains. Not everyone can be Lance and thankfully nobody else really wants to be.
If I just had one more gear, I...
I don't disagree much and credit where credit is due
But if Evans turns around on Col de la bonette and gives Menchov (or whomever) the LOOK.
We will all go nuts
by cyclingchallenge on Jul 14, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that's true
though I’ll probably go nuts anyway.
for me...
The stage was about the grinta of Evans, the ambition of DiGrégorio, and the cohesion of CSC (who are more than one rider, but rode toward one goal). If I’m allowed to have it be about four things, the stage was also about Peipoli. The meek shall inherit the earth.
Di Grégorio did his French National duty
It was Bastille day and he tried,
merci et felicitations, mais tant pis
by cyclingchallenge on Jul 14, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, yeah
I liked the comment someone – sorry I’m forgetting now who said it – made in the live thread: the French riders got together before the stage and told Rémy that he was it ;-)
Of course le Quatorze is important, but I was thinking more there of his often-stated ambition to win a mountain stage. He didn’t get it this time, but he didn’t sit on his hands either. Chapeau.
I said before that I didn't see much in DiGregorio but I was wrong
Today we saw a rider that had an objective and road out of his mind. If he keeps showing that kind of determination, I will be a fan.
If I just had one more gear, I...
+1
Watching Pippo get the win (well, I will watch it tonight) was wonderful. Truly the most professional of the professionals, and a fantastic teammate. Gibo and Ricco owe much to him.
Like maybe a Ferrari each when he finally hangs up his bike.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
you meant peeps right?
not pippo?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Yeah
Little loagie yesterday….......
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
ha!
that would be a very nice retirement gift. i think he said on the sd webby that he likes audi best, though ;-)
A pair of RS8's it is then.
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
Audi RS8
From motorauthority.com
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
For sure
the stage was about those things. Actually there was so much going on you could run longer with lessons learned. I singled out the three results from today that I suspect have implications for the final podium. And didn’t bother setting up my premise to that effect. Ah, the intertubes.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
certo...
It’s just funny, you watch the same stage and remember different highlights. I didn’t give any of those three much thought once they were off the back. Callous Gav, very callous ;-)
I suppose I also have it in my head that Cunego is a born one-day rider, and so it doesn’t surprise me any more to see him struggle in the three week tours. He might have another Giro podium in him somewhere, but not the Tour de France. I had hopes for him, of course, since I’m a fan, but my head said, no. The win was a one-off – the product of a strong team and a low profile, and perhaps the knowledge of Pantani’s ex-DS then at Saeco.
Valverde heh. That stage win ahead of Lance in the Alpes seems like a long time ago. He certainly hasn’t done especially well in the grand tours since. It always seems a tad strange to me that he was so widely touted as a great stage racer but has never yet won a grand tour. Me, I thought after last year, he likely never would. Something happened along the way, maybe Piti barked at the wrong time.
Kirchen’s ridden a lovely season, but he’s never been a grand tour rider. To wear yellow for so long was a beautiful result, and he defended well, though of course not well enough to keep it. Chapeau!
CW
has long been that they’re one-day guys, but you look at them and think, hey, maybe they can ride a GT. Then they get a strong team united behind them each, and they look strong for a while. They arrange their year around the Tour. All systems go… until they hit the big mountains, and you finally realize you shouldn’t have ever gotten sucked in to begin with.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Looking back
Here are the final standings of Pais Vasco, where a bunch of th Ardennes guys used for practice:
1. Contador
2. Evans- 30”
3. Dekker- 35”
4. Cunego-57”
5. Monfort- 1’ 25”
6. Astarloza- 1’ 37”
7. Kirchen-1”43”
8. Casar-2’ 03”
9. Mosquera- 2’03”
10. F. Schleck-2’05”
And so on.
I think Dekker will be a better GT guy than a one day guy and if so even in this one week race we see the best GT guys (no Menchov here, or Valverde) beating the Classics guys- even though Kirchen won two stages and Cunego, one. Its just a different kind of racing.
Si...
Altho, when Valverde rode for Kelme he had some good Vuelta results, and looked promising in the grand tours. But not lately, his stage win in the Alpes – gah, why can’t I think of the finishing climb, there? – was something of a one-off.
Agree, ursula, about T Dekker. I think he’s a stage racer – he doesn’t have the speed for the one day races.
And speaking of T Dekker, what is going to happen with that guy I wonder? You can’t go talking to your team through lawyers forever, can you?
courchevel
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Many of us were lulled
by The Killer when he won the Giro. Now we assign those same hopes to the same types of riders.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
So, is this the official Adios thread?
For Valverde, Kirchen and Cunego?
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
ha
you can’t win the Tour on the 1st climbs but you can lose it
by cyclingchallenge on Jul 14, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
Time to put a ceiling on them. I’d say about 1500 meters. After that, see ya.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe
they stand a chance in the other Grand Tours. Hmm.
Giro? Only if Ricco and Basso give it a pass do they even stand a chance there.
Maybe the Vuelta though obviously not this year.
Other GTs
VV at the Vuelta is possible. Cunego… we’ve seen enough. On that score, the torch was just passed to Ricco. Above 1500 meters, they’re just different guys.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if the altitude is the problem exactly
i think it is the length of climb. It’s how much power you can sustain over what period. And TTing is the same – If you look at evans for example – excellent at a long ITT 1 hour plus, and normally superior to Valverde and Kirchen at that distance, but if you take a shorter ITT 30-40min then Kirchen/Valverde can be quite competitive. So shorter 2nd/1st cat climbs of say 30-40mins Kirchen/Valv can compete while longer climbs guys like Evans and Menchov can drop them with a sustained effort. Cunego is a different problem of course because his body type is different as well, but at least he’s shown he can stick with it for a sustained period if only periodically. Cunego’s been suspect all tour and wasn’t impressive in the lead-up either. I think he just hasn’t managed to get his fitness right. Valv/Kirchen OTOH, I think both have good form, but on the longer climbs have been found out – Valverde dropped on the first climb – perhaps believing he could reintegrate on the descent, while Kirchen dug deep to stay in contact only to blow on Hautacam.
I haven’t read anything about A. Schleck yet – the only two explanations for his ride I can think of are hunger knock or he just sat up after bing dropped?
Ricco is an interesting one – potentially a great classics rider and great GT rider.
I am really fighting the urge to like Ricco...
... he hasn’t inserted his foot in his mouth yet. Can I get at least one solid bike toss out of him so i can go back to feeling secure in my loathing?
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
I'm fullly on board with him
since he said recently (few weeks ago) he knows he basically has to be speak more maturely. I’ll chalk up a lot of his actions to being a hugely successful 24 yr old. Cavendish is pretty much the same, and I think they’ll both mellow a bit with age.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
Different phys.
It’s a different sort of talent to ride sustained power versus the sharp accelerations; they’re bodies are built differently. Cadel has no speed, and though he has tried, he has never won a major one day race. He can handle the distance, but he doesn’t have the finishing speed. Most grand tour riders don’t. Someone like Cunego, his gift isn’t sustained power. It’s speed, pure and simple. This is also way Fränk Schleck has such a hard time riding the one day races – he can’t outsprint a guy with hops like Cunego or Valverde. It’s too soon to tell, of course, if he has the recovery gene to ride well over three weeks, as he has yet to really do it. The recovery and the ability to put out sustained power – you need both the ride well over three weeks. For the one day races, you need the finishing speed to win, as it’s very difficult to arrive alone. Ricco has speed, but he still got taken by Cunego at Lombardia, he had nothing like Cunego’s finish.
I’m going to guess he sat up – Andy, I mean – but really, I don’t know.
Ditto
Even VV’s DS said it was over.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
I spent nearly 10 days of my vacation above 7,000' (2,133 meters)...
... the first three days I had a headache nearly constantly and was winded just loading and unloading my bike. The next three days the headache went away, but it was still a chore setting up and tearing down camp… the final few days I felt like I was back to normal and could really enjoy hiking again even with (infrequent) trips up into the 8000s and 8500s.
And that was just riding a motorcycle, camping and hiking. I know that they train, specifically, for this stuff, and when I got back to sea level here at Los ANgeles, the air itself felt a little thick (beyond smoggy and humid)... but how the hell they get within a kilometer of the summit at those altitudes and STILL attack… well… that’s why I watch. Fabulous effort, tremendous conditioning and a force of will that I am, most likely, unfamiliar with.
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
Elite
in the truest sense of that word. Every last one of them. We focus here on their differences and we amplify any small weakness or defect because, well, because we can… but I think we would all agree that these guys are all simply amazing and deserve our utmost respect and admiration.
Agreed
the point of the races is to determine the god among gods, basically—at least among the clean ones. I was watching the replay of stage 9 when I got home last night and just picturing Ricco back home in Italy, practicing his 5km uphill bursts and 20km downhill/flat hammer sessions. Really, there was nothing at all normal about it.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 14, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
I watched his attack again and he just shot away like I have never quite seen anyone do, and then he just kept on going at that same pace. That guy is unreal. There is no dope that makes someone able to do that…
Welllll...
... none that wouldn’t make the piss cup melt if the cops that gave the “Drugs and You” presentation at my 7th Grade Health Class spoke truth.
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
In Paris...
... even the Lanterne Rouge (currently, who else, Wim Vansevenant) will have dragged his body over each and every last one of these climbs, slogged through the hot days that are undoubtedly to come and managed not to crash himself into the meatwagon.
No way a mere mortal even GETS to where Valverde had his mechanical today…
No way a mere mortal even rides 100k on a warm sunny windless day…
No way a mere mortal even contemplates climbing more than two anthills, let alone ONE rated climb…
No way a mere mortal does any of this with the additional stress of competition…
No way a mere mortal gets on a bike the day after crashing…
No way a mere mortal gets out of bed after crashing so hard they crack their helmet…
After a hard day of watching a Tour stage, I like to unwind with Verbotene Liebe
over time...
Your body gets used to it, once you’ve done a few times. The first time I went to Mammoth all I wanted to do was sleep. But I’ve ridden and raced there since without too much trouble. Of course, if you’re pro, you’ve trained up there anyway, so you’re all good to go – not only fit for it, and accustomed to it, but also acclimated. It’s a concern in terms of preparing correctly – and I mean that in the non-nefarious sense of the word – but it isn’t that big a deal if they’re fit and ready.
It is a shame
that guys like Valverde, Cunego, and to a lesser extent Kirchen, must be judged on their success in a GT. They are Classic studs who can also excel in the minor tours (Suisse, Dauphine, Romandy, etc.). Whether self imposed or pressured by the sponsors, these guys have been forced into the mold of a Tour contender, thanks to this new era new era of specialization. All of them have far more in common with Sean Kelly than Lance Armstrong, which is a compliment in my book. It’s too bad the one day races aren’t more widely appreciated than they are.
+2
I wonder about Columbia what with the Tour being such a high profile over the other races here in America. Who’s gonna be their bona fide Tour guy?
That's a good point
They’re possibly looking to sell gear in europe and elsewhere where cycling is a good method of exposing your brand. As for GC guys – they’ve got Rogers some of the time and he’s still on the correct side of 30. Though probably not a top shelf GC candidate, he does seem to have the potential to be steady throughout a 3 week race. Oh dear lord, Rogers = Zubeldia!
agreed.
okay I made light of this previously but they really need a good marketing/PR firm to showcase their teams, to show what makes them different. Look at what H3O has done for Slipstream.
They should focus on how they are developing global talent in cycling, men & women, teamwork, all done in a clean way. Show off the quirks of every rider, show the bad days too. Make people care about the riders as people and not just athletes on a bike, and not just results and they you get brand attachment.
Maybe if they had a little help they would know what to aim for... (wink wink)
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
Not Gerdemann it seems
He seems to be well on his way to Milram.
I’m sorry to say he looks like a guy following the money rather than staying where he is likely to get the best results. First he jumped ship from CSC for a bigger paycheck and now he’s going to Milram who are willing to pay up plenty to get good germans on their team. He would have had a better future on Columbia if he decided to stay.
Is this confirmed now?
I couldn’t find the article easily there. Because it’s been in the press for a bit now that Milram wants him, but Stapleton denied any willingness to negotiate a transfer. Perhaps he has now changed his mind, with the help of a few euros, of course.
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