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Developing: l'affaire Saunier Duval

Though Saunier Duval has left the race, they are not out of the headlines just yet. Speculation abounds about another positive on the team, speculation reinforced by the firing of Leonardo Peipoli. The story of how the LLND managed to catch Riccardo Ricco in flagrante delicto has also emerged, demonstrating a growing cooperation among international anti-doping experts.

More details on the flip.

Updated, Saturday.

Gav's note: I updated this one with a few more bits from today's news, and bumped up the time stamp. No huge developments just yet.

Star-divide

Ricco charged. Arrested yesterday after the announcement of his positive test for EPO, Riccardo Ricco remains in police custody today. The prosecutor in the case has announced that they have charged Ricco with use of a controlled substance. The police escorted him to the border, and he is on his way back to Italy, as of now.

Peipoli Fired. Speculation abounds today that Leonardo Peipoli has also tested positive, after L'Equipe reported that a second Saunier Duval rider has returned a non-negative test. The decision of Saunier Duval to fire the Italian has added credibility to the rumors, though the team management denies receiving any notice of a positive test. The pre-emptive action by the Saunier Duval team management represents a desperate, and likely doomed, effort to distance themselves from the doping adventures of their two riders. Any hint of team-sponsored or organized doping will mean the withdraw of the sponsor and the end of the team. Already the Vuelta organizors have suggested that Saunier Duval might not be welcome at the third grand tour of the year. If they hope to preserve the team, the management's only hope, and an increasingly slim one it is, is to act quickly to demonstrate a hardline on doping. All the same, the press reports today that a withdraw from the sport by Saunier Duval is likely imminent.

The Search for CERA. How did the testers catch up with Riccardo Ricco? According to an article in eurosport.fr, suspicions of Ricco's activities date from the Giro. In the course of testing samples taken from Ricco during the race, testers at CONI found a substance they could not identify. They knew that the substance did not belong and recognized its synthetic nature, but did not know exactly what it was.

CONI contacted experts at the LLND in France, and there began an cooperative effort to identify the mystery substance. The knowledge of doping experts around the world contributed to the monthlong seminar, and soon their efforts led to the ability to detect the new variant of EPO, Ricco and perhaps Peipoli, chose to use. In a comment in the Danish press, Damsgard, who heads the anti-doping program at CSC, applauded the effort and predicted more positives before the Tour ended. He also predicted that many of these cases would likely end up decided by TAS, but believed that route represented the only way forward, given the speed with which doping practices, and the tests to prevent them, evolve.

Ricco's Giro Results. It is unclear just yet if CONI will open a case against Ricco. But certainly, it would not be surprising. CONI detected the unknown substance, and now, thanks to the cooperative efforts, have confirmed that it is a banned substance. Consequently, it's reasonable to expect that there may yet be a revision of the Giro results. Stay tuned.

More to come? No doubt there is more to come with this story, as the positive test results date from Stage 4 of this Tour. Since the mountains traditionally lead riders of the doping persuasion to dig deeply into their suitcases of syringes, it's hard to imagine that at least one, if not more, positives will emerge before the Tour reaches Paris.

Update, Saturday. Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf reports that a third rider from Saunier Duval is likely positive. They do not name the rider, and so far, there has been no confirmation of this report elsewhere. DS of Saunier Duval Mauro Gianetti said that he talked to Juan Jose Cobo and Cobo denied using doping products. Gianetti has also denied team wide doping. Though I have lost confidence in Peipoli, for the moment, "I do not have any doubts" about Cobo, Gianetti said. All the same, the team's general manager, Thierry Leroy has said that it is now "very very likely" that the sponsor will withdraw as a consequence of Ricco's positive test and arrest.

In Italy, bike racing fan and ex-premier (I thought he was currently still premier, but eh, whatever) Prodi has declared himself shocked and dismayed by the Ricco positive. He has publicly urged Ricco to make a full confession. No word yet as to whether Ricco has chosen to take his advice, and claims that the syringes and other doping accoutrement found in the hotel were for vitamins. Eh, not the most original of excuses.

Barloworld.On the subject of sponsors, Barloworld has today announced that they will cease sponsorship at the end of the Tour. Chris Fischer, the director of marketing for Barloworld, said that the Dueñas positive had a negative effect on their brand and contradicted the values their company wished to demonstrate. The contract between the team and sponsor runs until the end of 2009, and they will continue to honor their obligations. As I understand it, this means that the sponsor will continue to pay the bills, but will not be a named sponsor of the team, but perhaps more explanation of the arrangement will appear later. Dueñas meanwhile has reportedly named Spanish doctor Jesus Losa, in the statement he gave to French police. Dueñas reportedly confessed to the French authorities. Losa has denied the accusation, natch.

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Cobo?
He’s as likely as anyone to be the next to fall …

Sometimes you have to give luck a kick in the balls - Jens Voigt

by mikelpearce on Jul 18, 2008 12:12 PM EDT   0 recs

Yeah he is as clean as Voith... uuhmm

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jul 19, 2008 3:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks, gav

Nice summary.

Also, bonus points for the twist on “suitcase of courage”. :)

-Greg

by gregm on Jul 18, 2008 12:19 PM EDT   0 recs

lol, thanks :-)

couldn’t resist!

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 12:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ugh

I can’t believe I trusted these guys because they planted some trees in Mali.

Ricco: If I ride the Tour, do you think I can win a mountain stage?
Piepoli: probably not.
Ricco: d’oh!
Piepoli: unless you’re corrupt.
Ricco: WOOHOO!

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 12:22 PM EDT   0 recs

eh

these things happen to the best of us

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 12:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

thanks, gav

I read a lot of interwiews where everyone seems to think that we are just getting the tip of the iceberg…

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 18, 2008 12:25 PM EDT   0 recs

yes

no reason to think they are wrong.

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 12:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This makes me think of Modest Mouse

“Good news for people who love bad news”

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 18, 2008 12:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

re SDV, or more?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 12:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

SDV was a sort of poetic justice

since the only riders who seemed to suffer penalties from OP were either non-spaniards, spaniards riding for non-spanish teams, or 2nd level spanish riders. The Valverdes, Contadors, etc. were given a pass. Now a Spanish team is facing the music, but apparently only for their non-spanish riders.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 18, 2008 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

indeed,

I’d force every rider to give their DNA samples and demand the blood bags from the OP to be tested, hopefully CAS can push this through..
UCI has clear proof that Piti used EPO, incredible that after 2 years we are in this situation where nothing has been resolved, and the ugly cloud of OP still hangs over the riders…

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 18, 2008 12:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't think

CAS has jurisdiction over Spanish courts.

by ursula on Jul 18, 2008 12:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

nope

only the spanish federation. they have nothing to say to the government. i s’pose they could take it to the UN, but I s’pect they got better things to do :-)

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 4:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

si

what he said.

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 12:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i'm off for a while..

but i’ll check back lates for updates :-)

i’m guessing the peeps positive – if it’s true – should be up within the next hour or so…

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 12:43 PM EDT   0 recs

Sad about Peeps, but I expect it will be confirmed.

He was a loyal worker and raced hard. No loudmouth, just brought his lunchbox every stage and went to work.

Hardly unexpected, but as the good doctor said: isn’t only bad guys who dope. Nice guys dope to.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 18, 2008 12:49 PM EDT   0 recs

but -5 for grammar and/or copy editing.

nice guys dope too.

Brooklyn Chewing Gum: Vlaanderens Mooiste

by Koppenberg on Jul 18, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Another great update

Ricco and Piepoli weren’t really surprises. I agree with Koppenberg that it is sort of poetic justice. But, beyond that, this whole thing stinks of systematic team doping. I’m wondering if we are going to find out that some so called “clean riders” have been using and get busted. As for the Giro, it looks like Bruse is gonna move up to second and Pello up to third. Does anyone remember who is going to inherit stage wins from Ricco?

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 1:01 PM EDT   0 recs

Looks like

Stage 2 will go to DiLuca and stage 8 will go to Bettini.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 1:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Giro

Are you saying that the Giro authorities have used this positive to invalidate results in their previous race? That would be new, wouldn’t it?

by ursula on Jul 18, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think we're just speculating at this point

but I assume the argument would be that he’d be busted basically for a “retroactive” positive in the Giro itself, not on the basis of the TDF test. The substance was located in his test during the Giro, but it’s only now that they have the necessary information to identify the substance, and correctly evaluate the test.

by Katiek on Jul 18, 2008 1:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Of course we're speculating but doesn't it make sense

If you are going to dope for the Tour, wouldn’t you dope for the Giro, especially if you are Italian? That makes tons of sense. No, I think expecting people to wait for the results to come out and not speculate is fantasy. Of course he doped then too, just like Pantani. Sad but probably true.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 1:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But if Ricco doped, it only stands to reason that Sella may have also

His riding was just as extraordinary as Ricco’s.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If Sella doped.. What about Contador?

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jul 18, 2008 1:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting bit on this in yesterday-s Live Blog on Bicycling.com

Something about the VAC for various riders and stages in both tours.
Cobo were riding at something like 1800 VAC the other day (not really possible w/o PED). The glob of Heads of state were at 1580ish (really good for the same stage. F. Schleck was at 1700-1750 which is amazingly good but possible. JV provided the stop watch info for the gobb of HOS.

In another post or on another site (can’t find it yet) there is a discussion of the Giro VAC data. Apparently Sella and Ricco were pushing those 1800 numbers at the Giro while Candotar was at the 1600 -1700 range for VAC.

Here is the link to the Boulder report:

http://boulderreport.bicycling.com/2008/07/live-blog-sta-5.html

The info is at around 8:33 AM in the post

Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland

by natbla on Jul 18, 2008 2:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

VAC?

what’s it mean?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 2:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

VAM

Not VAC

Velocita Ascensionale Media, which means average climbing speed.

Ferrari coined the term.

by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 18, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Here are some of the VAM comments Joe Lindsey made

yesterday on his blog. I read them too.

” I ran some numbers after Hautacam: Piepoli did that climb at a VAM of 1,800 meters per hour. VAM means velocite ascensione mediale, or median speed of ascent. It was popularized by none other than the good Dr. Ferrari his own sulfurous self. 1,800 meters an hour is, to put it mildly, amazingly fast. Contador in the Giro this year never went past 1750 on any climb, and even Lance Armstrong, in the 2004 Alpe d’Huez time trial, did 1,790m/h. By contrast, Piepoli went 1,800 on Hautacam after 168km. Further, points out a friend, he waited at times for Juan Cobo, who was dropped. When a team finishes 1-2 like that on a queen mountain stage, after not showing that kind of climbing power in any race all year, yes, it is suspicious.

VAM is super easy to calculate: it's elevation divided by time. Piepoli did Hautacam in 36 minutes (that's according to time stamps on various live coverage reports). 36 minutes is 60 percent of one hour, and Hautacam is 1060 meters of climbing. So, that's 1781m/h. But these numbers move quite a bit if you add even 30 seconds, so you need to time them.

I was told later by someone who timed it with a stopwatch that Piepoli did 1,800. I was told by Vaughters that the Vande Velde group did 1,580, which puts Schleck in the 1700-1750 realm. That’s totally believable. 1600s is a superlative effort. Anything over 1,750 usually comes in special circumstances, like an Alpe d’Huez or Plan de Corones time trial. But 1,800 at the finish of a traditional Pyreneean stage is just weird.I’ll be watching Prato Nevoso and Alpe with a stopwatch in hand. “

by roadside on Jul 18, 2008 2:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thats what I get when I try and work and post at the same time

Where were my priorities – podium cafe and then work. What was I thinking

Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland

by natbla on Jul 18, 2008 8:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Value Act Capital

Stellar women’s race team in NorCali.

I suppose that’s a bit off topic and not what was meant by the above.

by marian on Jul 18, 2008 3:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sella

was clobbering Ricco in the mountains every stage. He was churning out 450 watts and 1800 VAC on a daily basis. Sella has no history of turning out even 400 on a daily basis.

Ricco beat Contador by small margins almost every stage in the high mountains, then took about 5 minutes from him in the TTs.

by Mr 60 Percent on Jul 18, 2008 2:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

what about him?

Sella beat him in every mountain stage?!

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 18, 2008 2:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Possible, very possible

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not yet.

see the bit about how ricco got nailed. coni found the unknown substance during the giro tests. they called up the french who called up lots of other sciencey types and they figured out what the substance was. same stuff in both the giro and the tour – that’s what the eurosport thingy is saying. no news yet on what that means for the giro results.

it isn’t out of the question, though.

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 4:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The preliminary criminal charge laid against Ricco is "use of a poisonous substance."

Prosecute him, and if found guilty, send him to prison (if the statute allows), is my wish.

by pigilito on Jul 18, 2008 1:29 PM EDT   0 recs

CERA ...

It’s apparently chemically bonded with or to polythelene glycol? It isn’t broken down in the kidneys. It is supposed to be the reason it’s not easily detected in the urine. I read this yesterday I believe.

I know glycol is found in things like oh say antifreeze. Yummy. Poisonous indeed.

by Fred Marx on Jul 18, 2008 2:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Isn't gycol the stuff that kills kitties?

And puppies when the lick the garage floor?

Think of the kitties! The puppies!

by marian on Jul 18, 2008 2:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Antifreeze contains ethylene glycol

Polyethylene glycol and ethylene glycol are not the same compound. One is poison, assuming you ingest too much, and the other is not. Don’t let the “glycol” part scare you. Just means it’s in the same family of organic compounds, not that it acts the same if you eat it…

by Jimbo... on Jul 18, 2008 3:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Polyethylene glycol

I’ve taken Organic Chem. It’s a polymer of ethylene glycol that can break down in the presence of water and the right pH and catalyst… which doesn’t happen in your body. Not gonna poison you like antifreeze will.

by BDBrian on Jul 18, 2008 7:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

thank you both for the clarification.

I was a geologist, so organic was a dark mystery to me… as a matter of fact most chem was.

by Fred Marx on Jul 20, 2008 11:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Italians in Spain

My sense is that this is no coincidence. Spain isn’t on the ball yet IMHO; we’ve seen little proactivity from them yet. Meanwhile, CONI seems to be one of the more vigilant entities in the doping fight. I don’t know everything, i.e. whether they’re thorough or unimpeachable, but they’ve vigorously pursued a number of the nation’s biggest stars (Pantani, Basso, DiLuca, Petacchi, etc), and the Giro folks seem to be on the ball. So Italy, while populated by people with a—ahem, colorful relationship to the law, is not much of a doping haven anymore.

Meanwhile, virtually all Italian riders stay home to ride. Not Rebellin, who split from the national program only to join an anti-doping outfit, and not Bettini, who’s done well for himself at QSI and follows a tradition of classics guys in Belgium. But few others leave. So when stars like Ricco and Piepoli slip off to Spain, isn’t that a pretty big red flag? In hindsight I’d say yes.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 2:07 PM EDT   0 recs

er Chris you do know that the move to Spain was used in the past to raise suspicions on American riders

a lot of emotions riding high right now but some of the statements said regarding these riders were scoffed at when said about well-liked riders in the past.

What’s changed?

by lyne on Jul 18, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Difference

American riders have to leave home. You can’t succeed in Europe by hanging around SoCal all year.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 2:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't say "all"

and in fact I pointed out prominent examples that we need not be suspicious of. I agree that painting in such broad brushstrokes is not a good idea. But my point was, CONI gives those who do cheat a reason to try to find work abroad.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 2:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You can't???

I’m so screwed.

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 18, 2008 10:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

si

the tendency of american riders to stay in spain has always lead to criticism.

i really don’t think you can say one thing or another about the italians staying home or whatever. and while coni is chasing hard, i’m hesitant to consider italian cycling especially clean. they’re doing more than spain. but i’m not sure how much that’s sayin’

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 4:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

crap

that should read “led” to criticism.

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 4:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I believe that Spain became a haven for English speakers

Not because of anything nefarious, but because of climate. Training is pretty much always possible there compared to say, Germany or Switzerland. Once a few English speakers settled there during the season, it made sense for other English speakers to settle there during the season. Now, it’s the place to be if you want to be around others that have similar cultural and linguistic backgrounds. Makes the training more tolerable if you are passing the time with friends. But having lived around so many English speakers in Germany for three years, I would probably setup my base in a little town away from most English speakers to enjoy the experience and have my own little corner of the world. But, those guys don’t live there full time so when they have to be there, why not surround themselves with friends. I doubt drugs, etc. had anything to do with that.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 5:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

except that

the early location for American euro-pros was Nice or the Lake Como area. That’s where the col de la madone is (and it’s an easier drive to Swiss pharmacies than from the Barcelona area). When Armstrong moved to Girona to escape French taxes, there was tongue-wagging about part of the reason being to escape being subject to French testing.

I think Girona started because Johnny Weltz, the DS who was shoved out of USPS to make room for JB (and is now with Garmin) owns apartments there.

by R Mc on Jul 18, 2008 7:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Regardless of the first reasons

It’s now the spot for English speakers. The other reasons are irrelevant at this point, except the part about the apartments. That part makes sense for Garmin.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 8:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So what are you saying exactly?

That you believe that the reasons that English speakers, not just Americans, live there to avoid testing? Please elaborate if you’re going to disagree.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 18, 2008 9:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

David Millar

got out of this team just in time. Sounds like an old movie script about the ex-con trying to go straight, only to find the people around him dragging him back to the gutter. Not this time, luckily.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 3:32 PM EDT   0 recs

Charles Dionne says he's not surprised

Dionne, a Canadian (multiple winner of the former San Francisco GP), rode with Saunier-Duval in 2006 then signed with Colavita – there were some issues with injuries and not wanting surgery in Spain or something like that, but IIRC SD at the time said they would have offered him a contract extension if he wanted it. Dionne said then something about wanting to come home to North America to recover. He now says that maybe people understand his decision better …

He was contacted for comments by Le Soleil (Quebec), article here, found this thanks to an article at Pedal with a brief mention of Dionne’s comments.

by guidemd on Jul 18, 2008 5:00 PM EDT   0 recs

ok

stuff found
A police search of a hotel room where the rider had stayed turned up medical equipment like syringes, catheters and medical bags but no doping products.

Ricco in denial
After his release from police custody, Ricco made no clear denials. Instead, he defiantly said he wasn’t surprised by the team’s decision to fire him.
“It’s the routine for the teams,” Ricco told Italy’s RAI state TV. “That’s what they have to do. I’ll be back. I’ll be back stronger than before.”

Cadel has sense of humor
Evans said he cracked jokes with his closest rival, Frank Schleck of Luxembourg, during the ride Thursday after the Ricco bust. “We’re rivals, but in a race like this … everyone needs friends in a race like this,” Evans said.

by roadside on Jul 18, 2008 8:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

oh and somewhere is an informant

Bordry said Piepoli was one of several riders targeted because he had suspicious blood parameters in pre-Tour blood tests July 4 and 5 and because of “information from outside sources.” Bordry would not say what the sources were,

by roadside on Jul 18, 2008 9:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

probably coni

thanks muchas for the summary. it’s a lot to read out there :-)

i missed the bit about the syringes and whathaveyou, but the rest is familiar, though probably hasn’t been in english.

by gavia on Jul 18, 2008 9:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Very strange photo

of Ricco apparently laughing his head off leaving the French police station. Sorry my technical skills do not permit me transfer it for you. (It’s on the 3rd page of the Yahoo cycling photos today) Still laughing a few pix on.

doping_par103&prov=ap” target=”_blank”>http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/photo?slug=09ce47575efb444e88e59d88e3472b96.francedoping_par103&prov=ap

by NE Observer on Jul 18, 2008 6:38 PM EDT   0 recs

weird

his PR skills are below measurable.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 18, 2008 6:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He's a freakin' toolbox...

... dumb as a sack of hammers

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 18, 2008 10:11 PM EDT to parent up