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Is the Tour Won on the Alpe?

Alpedhuez_mediumThis is a little companion analysis to the book review I just posted. I won't run through all 24 past editions of the Alpe, but I do want to look at the most recent, relevant ones -- by relevant, I mean since the modern evolution of the race (yes, things have changed a bit since 1986), and without much thought given to the EPO years. And by analysis, I endeavor to determine how likely it is that the 2008 Tour will be won on the Alpe tomorrow.

The Alpe route rarely changes, certainly not in any consequential way: It's always at the end of a stage, and it's the same 21 hairpins in 15.5km each time. I don't think they even move the finish line anymore. So let's examine its place in the race from the editions since... oh, let's pick 1999. On the flip...

Star-divide

1999

Stage Winner: Giuseppe Guerini
Winner of the Tour: Lance Armstrong
Maillot Jaune on the Alpe: Armstrong had seized control of the race on the previous day, and spent the Alpe matching wheels with all his main rivals... if you can call a group of guys trailing by over six minutes "rivals."
Parcours Placement: Stage 10, second of two huge days in the Alps.
Was the Tour won on the Alpe? Definitely not. It was won the day before in Sestriere, Italy. Armstrong went into cruise control from then on.

2001

Stage Winner: Lance Armstrong
Winner of the Tour: Lance Armstrong
Maillot Jaune on the Alpe: Stuart O'Grady had begun the day in yellow, but quickly disappeared in the mountains and finished a half-hour down. Francois Simon claimed yellow that day and began his own heroic journey to hang on to the golden fleece as long as possible. Thanks to a massive breakaway in a prior stage, he still had a 20 minute GC lead over Lance after the Alpe. 
Parcours Placement: Stage 10, the first of five consecutive huge stages.
Was the Tour won on the Alpe? Arguably yes. Psychologically, for sure. Lance proceeded to win three of the five big stages and put time into Ullrich every day. The dramatic and very effective attack at the base of the Alpe fit well with the Postal scheme of ringing up a demoralizing win as early as possible -- in fact, it established the routine that we came to know and love for years.

2003

Stage Winner: Iban Mayo
Winner of the Tour: Lance Armstrong
Maillot Jaune on the Alpe: The jersey began on the shoulders of Richard Virenque, but he proceeded to lose 9.29 to Mayo, owing largely to his customary maillot pois attack the previous day, and was defrocked in favor of Armstrong atop the Alpe. Lance, meanwhile, had a bit of a rough day and did well to match his rivals and finish in a group on the Alpe.
Parcours Placement: Eighth stage, only major Alps uphill finish.
Was the Tour won on the Alpe? Armstrong took the jersey that day and held it til Paris. So... yes? Almost nobody would analyze the dramatic 2003 Tour that way. He got the jersey from Virenque, but this had more to do with his team's performance in the TTT and some other smart riding in week 1. Lance then went on to struggle mightily until the final climb in the Pyrenees and the closing time trial, when Ullrich was vanquished for good. So, no. If anything, this was the first of several surprisingly weak days, by Lance standards.

2004* (ITT)

Stage Winner: Lance Armstrong
Winner of the Tour: Lance Armstrong
Maillot Jaune on the Alpe: Had it. Held it.
Parcours Placement: Second of three Alps stages, all in the third week.
Was the Tour won on the Alpe? No, Armstrong had blown up the field pretty convincingly in the Pyrenees, and his win on the Alpe ITT was the second of three straight stage wins. Arguably this was his most convincing of the three, but again, the damage was done the prior week.

2006

Stage Winner: Fränk Schleck
Winner of the Tour: Floyd Landis/Oscar Pereiro (not going there)
Maillot Jaune on the Alpe: Landis made a huge move into yellow, finishing 1.10 behind Schleck and Damiano Cunego but ahead of all of his major competitors. He seized the maillot jaune from Oscar Pereiro that day by ten seconds, and held two minutes over everyone else. He and Andreas Klöden battled to a stalemate, which suited Landis well. Pereiro -- the then- and eventual maillot jaune -- limited his losses. If you expunge Landis, then Pereiro saw his absurd gap shrink to just under two minutes, though he held on OK.
Parcours Placement: First day in the Alps, third week. Before two other monster stages, all of which has gone down in history (for better or worse).
Was the Tour won on the Alpe? Not this time. There were two more days of chess to play, plus a final time trial. Clearly Landis did nothing more than position himself; if he won the Tour, it was on his monster escape and in the time trial. If Pereiro won, then this was the first of four final-week stages where he managed to not blow it.

If you needed to make generalizations about where the Tour is won, you should probably start with the final time trial. 2007, 2006, 2003 and several other editions all fall into that category, and 2008 may very well fit that pattern too. Alpe d'Huez doesn't occupy any special Tour-deciding place, regardless of where you put it in the parcours. Its greatest importance of the last decade was in 2001 when it came early, but usually the last great uphill finish helps decide the Tour if it hasn't been settled yet. So I'd give it a 50-50 chance of settling the current edition. If Evans cracks, the winner will benefit hugely from the day's action. And if he doesn't, he's going to seize the glory in Saturday's chrono.

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Um....

Why is there a beaver on that sign?

(Let the comments begin)

"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."

by Drew Davis on Jul 22, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Huez means beaver in (makebelieve) french

More importantly . How the hell did Bugno win the stage on a bike with wheels but no frame?

by Jens on Jul 22, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

apparently

with hope.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 22, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Technicalities...

... can you not suspend your disbelief for one stupid road sign? I do it all the time! “Speed Limit 70”, “Yield”, “Stop”... mere fiction.

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 22, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a Marmot!

... which, considering this crowd, requires the instant utterance of…

“Nice Marmot”

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks.

I just had it stuffed.

(I couldn’t resist…it was just hanging out there)

by swells on Jul 22, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

How many times has the Tour been LOST on the Alpe

That I think is the more interesting question. How many people have been eliminated from contention on the stage. I have no idea, but to me that is more what the big mountain stages do.

by Markk on Jul 22, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions  

The mountains as a force of attrition...

... rather than as kingmaker?

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 22, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that is my feeling.

We remember the fabulous solo’s because they are rare, but the Valverde’s and Cunego’s get pared off every year on the mountains and that is also exciting… watching the train wreck. Some of my favorite video on climbs is the motorbike slowly coming up from behind and seeing the little groups dropping off. I can just feel their legs not turning as fast as they want. Arrg! I have to shake my legs now !

Also, when someone is losing time but manages to limit losses like Armstrong in 2003 it is also interesting. There is a great scene in the movie “Hell on Wheels” (which focused on Zabel and Aldag in 2003) where you can hear the excitement of the German announcers when Ullrich comes in then the disappointment when Armstrong comes around the corner in only a minute or so.

by Markk on Jul 22, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last time round in 2006

Cadel lost only 1:30 on the fastest of the heads of state. That time they went over Izoard and Lautaret instead of Galibier /Croix de Fer. This years stage therefore looks a little harder than last time but that means very little unless riders actually ride to make it harder.

Gaining 3-4 minutes on Cadel who is a better rider today than in 2006 seems unlikely. What might make a difference is the last 2 days of climbing these guys have in their legs, that could help widen the gaps.

I personally think the only way for Sastre/Schleck/Kohl to gain the needed time is if one of the CSC riders makes an early attack on the penultimate climb forcing Evans to chase already there. The high grinding pace of Andy is impressive but it’s not going to wear Evans down enough. Does anyone really believe they are willing to gamble like that? Of course not.

by Jens on Jul 22, 2008 5:48 PM EDT reply actions  

sastre on the croix de fer

would be a beautiful move. i would love to see that one.

i do think this version of the course is harder than the izoard lauteret combo. it’s hard to know how hard each of the favorites has been working to maintain his position. for me, that’s the random factor in the game – who actually feels as good as he’s riding, and who’s just hanging on. we’ll see tomorrow, for sure.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about making Cadel chase

The question then becomes, how much do the CSC guys have left in the tank after the last few days? Has Cadel been portioning his efforts well enough to limit losses tomorrow? Can Menchov make up the lost time? Can VdV hang tough or maybe even take back a few seconds and get inside of 3 minutes deficit to FS? I can’t wait to find out. If they can’t drop Evans tomorrow, it’s probably game over. But you never know. Evans impressed me today but I won’t get too worked up until tomorrow is over with. I wouldn’t be opposed to Menchov taking L’Alpe tomorrow and the jersey with it. Again, I’ll wait until tomorrow, it’s gonna be balls to the wall, so to speak.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Radical idea

Evans is going to win the stage tomorrow. Just call it a hunch. And this is not a reverse-jinx. The rest of the Tour will be devoted to his unending confrontations with the media, who by Sunday will be constantly reporting on his nasally whine in retaliation.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 22, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Best defense is a good offense?

If he feels good that is a strategy.

by Markk on Jul 22, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

nuthin to lose

Well, if he doesn’t overcook himself on the Croix-de-fer. But he can recover Thursday and Friday.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 22, 2008 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's an even more radical idea

For CSC:

Send Andy early-Galibier- and the rest go slow.

Get Frank and Sastre to surround Evans early to keep the impression that it will be another day of the Heads of State looking at each other until L’Alpe. To add to the ploy make sure Jens! and Cancellara and the other workers stay with Sastre and F Schleck and make sure the set a decent but slow tempo: Just let Andy slip away early with the other stage hunters. Make it seem like he’s going ahead to wait for the team leaders like Popo did today.

When Evans gets the clue (hopefully not until well into Croix de Fer) that its Andy that he should be worried about, make him of course do the chasing. DO NOT drag his ass up any mountain.

Messed up reasoning: As Jens above said, the CSC grind is not working. However Evans will be quick to respond to Sastre or F Schleck so I don’t see those two having a chance unless Evans cracks and you can’t count on that. CSC needs some deception. Andy Schleck could do that.

by ursula on Jul 22, 2008 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

hmm

Andy would have to bring back more than 9.00 minutes for that move to have any purpose. Probably a waste of energy, though he might have a shot at the stage. He’s more useful in the role he played on the Prato Nevoso. I suspect they will grind until the Alpe, hope they have more legs left than the others, and play it like the Prato. Hard, attack-counter action from all three CSCs. I wonder a little at how much Evans has left. Certo, he would have to have a bad day to lose the race. It’s a big, big stage tomorrow for everyone, and rarely have we seen a favorite like Evans, who though he only has to defend must do so without a team. That’s no easy hand to play, especially against a team with three very strong climbers, who can expect help from Kohl or Menchov or both. Not the best tactical position for Evans by any means.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree gavia

The idea makes no sense at all. It makes all the sense in the world for CSC to keep doing what they’ve been doing and to keep telegraphing their punches. CSC would be wise to think their numbers mean more than Evans’ endurance even though Evans can endure as well as any of the CSC riders.

CSC should keep doing what they have been doing. No one can possibly make up 9:00+ some more to handle the ITT. Its so absurd that Evans or Menchov or Kohl (CVV is out of it folks) shouldn’t waste one second worrying about anybody but Frank Schleck and Carlos Sastre.

lol

The thing is… in sending Andy Schleck up the road, CSC can make a decision. He can always wait for his teammates. If the unexpected happens and he has say 10 minutes on the yellow jersey group and he’s crossed Fer then he should go. As it is CSC not only telegraphs their punches but they are putting all their eggs in one basket: the CSC train to crack Evans. Hows that going? Not too well.

by ursula on Jul 22, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

You should probably send Bjarne a memo and let him know ;-)

We’ll see what they do tomorrow. Interesting stage, on paper, at least.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I don't get about CSC is

Why in the hell did they not do ANYTHING today? Really, they should have been attacking left right and center. Now they are gambling on taking out Evans tomorrow. What if that doesn’t work? What is Schleck and/or Sastre crack tomorrow and Evans doesn’t, then what? What if Jens and Cance don’t have enough left in the tank to do any damage to the other favorites? Maybe they were riding conservatively today, I don’t know. I just don’t think they can afford themselves that luxury. If any of the above scenarios play out tomorrow, Riis will be giving himself lashes with the cat-o-nine tails, DaVinci Code style. One thing’s probably true though. If Sastre can’t deliver the goods, either he’ll be looking for a new job next season or will be demoted. Riis has given him many chances and he can’t seem to get it done.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 9:03 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

headwind.

Even Kohl didn’t like the looks of the headwind at the top of the climb. As Riis said afterwards, that’s racing.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plotting for today

I think the cost/benefit ratio goes down when you have a long descent to the line. At least, the factors are harder to control. Tomorrow, you have a better bet. And you don’t need to save anything for Thursday.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 22, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

Though an opportunity might have arisen along the way today, it was at best a set-up stage for tomorrow. Ride it hard, and hope that it leaves a mark. Which is what Andy was doing sitting there in the wind. Both Sastre and Kohl had a look at going off the front, but both felt the wind, and knew they had no chance. Small, light climbers do not do headwinds especially well.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yah

an uphill headwind on that beast. What did they do to offend the cycling gods so terribly?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 22, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

something, that's for sure!

The gods were angry. Uphill headwinds, so not bringing the joy. That combo makes me cry like a girl.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

See that's the thing with CSC

They were beaten today by a strong wind at the top of the hill.

In other words they had a Plan A and no Plan B. Thus they were screwed.

So I know my idea of sending Andy on a Floyd charge is out there but the thing is CSC needs a Plan B. And Plan C.

So far their Plan A is to mass their troops for a frontal attack. Evans has shown for years now that that only partially works with him and to make it work you need a decent TTing ability to back it up. See Disco last year.

So now CSC is down to their last bullet so to speak. Is Riis stupid enough to do the same? Or should he have a couple Palns to implement? Make Andy go up the road early on Gallibier, make, say, Sastre go up the road in an all out attack by Croix de Fer, then make Frank go all out on L’Alpe after shadowing Evans most of the way. Make Evans have to choose who to chase. Make Evans have to go all out before the last click of L’Alpe.

by ursula on Jul 22, 2008 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

An analogy for all to roll their eyes over

CSC has to approach tomorrow like its Paris-Roubaix. They have the strongest team but they don’t have all the strongest riders. In Paris-Roubaix there were guys like Boonen or Ballan or Devolder who they had to shake. In the two previous years to this one they did that, but not this year as Ballan and Boonen had the strength to stay with Cancellara and O’Grady.

This year on L”Alpe CSC has to shake Evans especially but also Menchov. (They should worry about Kohl because of his time trialing.) But they know Evans and Menchov are on paper as strong as any of their guys. Their frontal assult strategy doesn’t work so well on those two as they need minutes not seconds. So they need to hit them at different times so their rivals need to think. If they think there’s a good chance they will think wrong.

by ursula on Jul 22, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The difference

in Paris-Roubaix, his guys have had the last 3-7 days off. In stage 17 of the Tour, I wonder how many realistic options you have left. At least, on a clean team.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 23, 2008 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Totally

I get really angry when there’s an uphill headwind. I mean, how does the hill not shield you from the wind in that situation? Crosswinds, fine, but uphill headwinds seem to defy how air moves. Which means it’s time to start blaming the gods.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 23, 2008 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

CVV needs to make a deal with CSC

Being old teammates who parted on good terms, is it unreasonable to think that Garmin can workout a deal with CSC to help them isolate Evans and help CVV to try to make it to the podium as well? I’m talking about two teams with something in common, the need to get rid of Evans, Menchov, and Kohl. Pretty simple proposition. Garmin puts some guys in the CSC train to help whittle down the opposition and set their leaders up to attack Evans, Menchov, and Kohl. Probably not feasible, but it is a pretty common tactic in races and worth a try.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

what about that rumour?

that Garmin is going to sign someone, a top rider, with the initials “CE” ???

by guidemd on Jul 22, 2008 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never saw it directly myself

but I’ve seen several others say that Vaughters apparently said in an interview that they were trying/planning/hoping (?) to sign a rider with those initials.

nikki? anyone? what was the original source on this?

by guidemd on Jul 22, 2008 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

JV was being interviewed and signings came up

In the video, he throws out the intitials CE. (I don’t remember what stage that video happened or I’d link it for ya.)

I’ve heard a few other rumors and such but need an outside source to provide as a source. I’m keeping an eye out for one and as soon as I find one I’ll post.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 22, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't dare dream

Jesus, can you imagine that? Nope, can’t think like that.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't go dreaming too much at the moment.

The initials being tossed out didn’t fit (IMO) the interview discussion. I wish I could recall what stage it was.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 23, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

conflicting stuff about Garmin signings

JV has said they want to sign a top rider, but has also said they really only have one spot open for next year, and has also apparently said they might bring in some young guys … that doesn’t all fit together.

As I posted elsewhere, Christian Meier (current Cdn champ and last year’s Cdn U23 champ) posted on his blog that he’ll apparently be finishing the year with Garmin-Chipotle. CE could perhaps refer to Cam Evans (last year’s Cdn champ), also of Symmetrics, who is only 24 or 25 … but then again, who really knows other than JV and the riders involved until there’s an announcement.

by guidemd on Jul 23, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wish I could share my thought a bit more.

As for the younger guys being added, is there anything yet if they are on the GC team or possibly the Felt team of younger guys like Phinny and company? This year they seem to be covering races with mixed groups of both teams.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 23, 2008 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Carlos Efimkin?

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 23, 2008 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

What does Garmin have to offer CSC?

I really don’t think Garmin has much to offer that CSC wants. That is, very few of their riders are making it to the decisive points of the race – Vande is typically alone, and today he got dropped. How are they a useful ally? Vande doesn’t want the same thing as CSC anyway – he wants the same thing as Cadel, a relatively easy race, where they survive to the finish, don’t lose any time, and have great legs to kill the crono. CSC wants a hard race, where their climbers can take time, and the crono guys are worn down on the day. For Garmin to help CSC would be suicidal tactics, they’d likely only succeed in burning Vande, who has a hard day ahead.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never said I knew how that would work

Just thinking crazy that’s all. I will say this though. If CSC doesn’t win the race tomorrow, I will definitely be talking some serious shit to a few people around here and I mean RELENTLESSLY until they crack like Cunego!!!

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why?

It’s bike racing. No one can predict what will happen on the road. Even best laid plans have to alter on the spot. And then, if the legs aren’t there, there’s no point. I don’t see why anyone deserves shit for posting their opinion on a message board.

But that’s just me.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was referring to a couple of people that were saying that they were/are so certain

That a couple of riders in particular would lose massive time to the almighty CSC team and dismissed/attempted to discredit what I had posted. So those people will hear it back ten fold from me, all in good fun. So, don’t take it seriously, I wasn’t referring to you. But for those people, I will not be swayed.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting ideas

I have another:

Who’s the rider with nothing to lose and everything to gain by a huge attack early? I.e. Croix de Fer early.

Hint: he’s wearing light blue, climbs like a bobblehead, and has a bobblehead for a DS.

Of the folks left in the top 5, Kohl gains nothing by waiting to make his move in the tt. The same could be said for Sastre and FS, I suppose, but they’ve got experience . . . and they’re not playing for polka dots as well as yellow.

by R Mc on Jul 22, 2008 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 22, 2008 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

if he has the legs, yes.

It would be a very good move. It’s going to be hard for any of these guys to go early, though, because as soon as Kohl goes, Sastre is going to want to go with him. When sastre joins the move, Menchov might decide he likes the look of it also. Eh, then they all cover one another, and it’s status quo. This early break-away thing, not as easy as it sounds.

by Jen See on Jul 22, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

In C's rest day videos on VN

He marked Kohl as one people should be watching. (And that was before C’s time loss today.) He mentions that Kohl can climb and TT and I don’t think he should be passed over very quickly. Like C, he was a wild card and could very well spoil some parties.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 22, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he's also the guy most content to be where he is

A top 5 for him would be massive and also something Gerol can take to the table in the sponsorhunt.

“Look we have a young guy in the top 5 and according to the “SpunOut-law of natural progression” we will have a winner in 2-3 years”

No way they will jeopardize this. Bernie will ride conservaively and take his chances in the final k’s of Le Alpe.

by Jens on Jul 23, 2008 3:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

what are the odds

That Valverde will try to pull a landis and then once he crosses the line, he will be arrested by french police?

by d rod on Jul 23, 2008 1:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I'll give you

3:2

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris Fontecchio on Jul 23, 2008 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

It seems silly

to generalize that the Tour is won in the final TT as if somehow all the mountains stages don’t count for anything.

Now if you have examples of riders in 100th place going into the final time trial and winning the Tour, then that’s different.

It appears that the importance of AdH is not in winning the stage but in being in yellow after the stage. This, from cyclingfans.com:

There have been 25 stages to Alpe d’Huez in Tour history (including two in 1979!) and the man in yellow after the stage has gone on to win the overall 19 times.

by Toyota on Jul 23, 2008 8:58 AM EDT reply actions  

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