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Five Reasons To Love The 2008 Tour

Letour-sq2_1__mediumA bit of unnecessary analysis, to cap off a stunning day. Here's a short list of items that make this Tour de France one we'll remember fondly, however it turns out. In no particular order...

1. Balance. With Carlos Sastre holding an advantage over Cadel Evans of 1.34 heading into Saturday, we are looking at something close to a dead heat between the climber and the time trialist. Seems like the Tour tends to set up very well for the chronomen to have the last word. Last year was arguable -- Contador held off the pure chrono guys, though he himself is no slouch. In 2006 Landis had an iron grip on the race even before overtaking Pereiro. Before that, the Lance years. 1998 was the last time a pure climber overcame serious infirmity in the time trial to win the Tour. I'm not saying the race should be tilted toward the mountain men, but if I had to choose, I'd prefer that style. ITT-heavy races encourage pretty conservative racing.

Star-divide

2. Drama. Apart from the fans of Laurent Fignon, most of us think of the 1989 Tour as the gold standard. Well, here we go again: the maillot jaune uses the last mountain stage to open up what looks like a defensible lead, despite the challenger's advantage in the upcoming time trial. The maillot jaune thanks his team for helping him out, while the challenger knows he's alone, as always, unaided by his Belgian mates. Ah, but teams mean nothing in the final contest. The similarities get pretty strained from there, but we could be looking at the closest Tour in history, or something similar.

3. Plans. Nothing defines this race better than CSC's team tactics. Starting with the Pyrenees, CSC have harassed the peloton into a state of constant chaos, exerting control of the race to the exclusion of the world's best non-Danish teams. It wasn't always clear what they had in mind, and it's possible they weren't fully certain until the race hit the Alpe today. But it appears that they laid low through the Massif Central, even acting weak at times -- remember Jens! and Cancellara dropping back early on the climbs? Once it came time to go, they began working the front and setting up Frank Schleck as the leader. Frank isn't really a high Alps ace or time trialist, so it's likely he was always a distraction from Sastre... who continued to wait and mind his energy reserves, all the way to the final ascent. Once they got there and Sastre flew away, the rest of the team took turns starting or following moves, thwarting any meaningful counterattack as well as any rhythm that Evans might have had on the climb. It's all so perfect, you have to wonder: did Andy drop time on purpose, so he could play domestique without being shadowed? Did Sastre come back for bottles today as a way of fooling other DSs that they were riding for Frank? Maybe, or perhaps they were simply lucky at how things fell into place.

I grew up in New England, rooting for the Celtics as well as some other pretty sad-sack teams. The Red Sox, for example, devised an organizational plan for the first time in their 99-year history in 2002... and have two rings to show for it. The Patriots were even more chaotic... until the Belichick era began, resulting in the sports blueprint for long-range planning and unimaginable success. Even the Celtics, who used to have a plan, lost their way, came up with a new plan to accumulate talented teenagers until something magical happened. When that went nowhere, they embarked on a risky strategy to add two top veterans, even trading a top draft choice for Ray Allen solely in the hopes that doing so would spring the Garnett trade. And when that plan worked, they were smoking victory cigars within 10 months. CSC had a plan all along, it seems. As a result, they have as good a chance to win the Tour as was ever possible, given their roster.

4. Take Back the Tour. The Versus theme of reclaiming the Tour from its run of scandal was starting to ring pretty hollow a week ago. The Saunier Duval miasma was threatening once again to overshadow the race. But the Tour caught the cheaters in time, before they graduated from sideshow to main attraction (unlike last year). This left the race in the hands of what appears to be a fairly clean peloton, racing with panache but also credibility.

5. The Future. I probably shouldn't even start with this... but is anyone else salivating (figuratively) over Andy Schleck vs. Alberto Contador, 2009?

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Yeah,

next year appears to shape up well. Going by their relative strength in the ITT, this year it looks as though Cadel will prevail by a margin of some 15-30 seconds. Given how outstandingly Sastre rode today, I hope he wears yellow into Paris.

by pigilito on Jul 23, 2008 3:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Future!

salivating here! But… Contador looks like he is way above everyone else, he has improved his time trial skills lately and he’s pretty much unstoppable. Also, he is three years older than Andy.

We’re also going to see if Gesink can join the party for 2009 in this year’s Vuelta.

by King of Doping on Jul 23, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

except not in 2009

a Liquigas team manager (forget the name) said the other day that Basso would not be riding the Tour in 2009. I think it was even at Velonews…

by guidemd on Jul 23, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

no Basso, Kreuziger again?

by King of Doping on Jul 23, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's some more

More reasons to like this years tour – to be added to some end of tour list:

- quick and decisive DQ’s. No time for rumors – bang!

- no time bonuses. It made explaining the Yellow and Green Jerseys much easier: Yellow is the guy that took the shortest time and Green is the guy with the best positions. It may have stopped some jockeying the first week, but the sprinting was still good!

- A good mix of stages. The “classics” stages have worked in my opinion, and could perhaps still provide some action tomorrow.

- well more to come.

by Markk on Jul 23, 2008 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

l like the time bonus system,

makes riders work harder for the sprints and finishes, imo of course.

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 23, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm on board with time bonuses as well for stage finishes

It gets confusing, but I believe there is a huge difference between finishing top 5 and finishing same time 45th in the pack. Kirchen earned those bonus seconds at the beginning of the tour.

by PopUp Rolen on Jul 23, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are they using the same 3km rule

in the Tour that they were using in some of the field sprint stages at the Giro?

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

The Giro gets a lot of really interesting finishes inside little towns, which can be squiggly and a bit dangerous too. The Tour on the other hand is just far too big to fit inside these places so they tend to end up where there is enough space for everyone to park. Look at last year when both finished in Briancon. The Giro had a really brutal climb to inside the old walled town, crossing a tiny bridge and going up some streets so narrow that there wasn’t even room for a barrier. The Tour finished on the modern ring road.

by Monty. on Jul 23, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Schleck vs Contador vs Kreuziger vs Gesink

I think Roman, if he doesn’t go all out in the Swiss Tour again, will also be in the think of it.

Gesink, also, could be a major player, once he gets his gangly legs under him to chrono- and descend.

But here’s the thing: Imagine Sastre winning this year’s Tour. Andy will again share his protected leader status with sastre and his brother- and this time CSC won’t be the Big Boys on the block what with Astana being around. Bert will have Kloden and Levi also protected but anyone here think either of those two could beat Bert? Same with Gesink and Menchov and whatever Dekker is doing.

But I have to agree with KoD- Contador is another level beyond what we are seeing this year- which as it turns out means that his absence is making this race more exciting than it would have been, one of the best.

by ursula on Jul 23, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

However, consider taking...

... Contador’s most recent performance, the ‘08 Giro as opposed to his performance of a year ago in the ‘07 Tour. I would say that the way he rode the Giro this year was closer to Cadel’s current performance than his knock-down-drag-out’s with ~:>.

I have no idea how well Andy Schleck can time trial… but on a mountain stage… if last year’s Accountant shows up, he’s riding with Menchov on today’s stage… not challenging Sastre.

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you miss all the story about Contador prior to the Giro?

He was nowhere his best condition and he suffered like a dog, or worse. Even if you don’t believe that he was on vacation a week before the Giro, his performance in the Vuelta al País Vasco was really really good.

Even if a lot of people don’t like him because of the doping shadows, he’s pure talent and he has improved a lot in the time trials. This year’s Vuelta is going to be a Contador’s party.

by King of Doping on Jul 23, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought about the "vacation", "toothache" thing...

... but it’s very, very hard for me to gauge what one rider is capable of doing versus another and what the reasons for that are… beyond doodsmak = DNF so I was trying to limit myself to what I actually saw happen on screen. As far as doping shadows… that’s all they are right now… shadows.

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that makes sense I guess

If you don’t believe or take into account of what Contador (and his Astana team) was doing post-Pais Vasco (where he dominated Evans and others) then yeah, his Giro win was not such a big deal, only 1:57 over Ricco who was probably doping and targeting the Giro. Honestly I can’t see how you can dismiss that info though it sure seems like others here can.

by ursula on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree that Contador's on another level

Contador only beat Evans by 23 seconds in last year’s Tour, and Evans is currently sitting in fourth. Sure, Evans is still the likely winner, but not by much. It’s likely that the top three in this year’s Tour will finish within a minute or so of each other. That means that if Contador were here and won by the same margin over Evans that he had last year, there would be three other finishers within a minute and a half of him.

Contador is a huge talent, no doubt, and since Basso won’t be there, I consider him the favorite for next year’s Tour, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that he’s on a whole other level from the riders who are in contention this year. Andy Shleck’s performance in last year’s Giro at age 22, and the apparent ease with which he’s handled his super-domestique duties in these last few stages, suggest to me that by next year, he could be the one who’s on a whole other level from the rest.

by Tifosa on Jul 23, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree with you - Contador is good but not a level above all the other riders

Before folks give the next Tour to Contador,how about we finish with this one and wait for Contador or whomever to actually race and win it.

by lyne on Jul 23, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Andy

Can do a mean time trial, and has been climbing heroically. I’m not saying he wins, just that I really really really can’t wait for CSC to let him loose against the best, and see what happens.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wouldn't be surprised if he wins

Kids on a whole ‘nother level. Also, what Lyne said. Contador hardly rode rings around Evans last year. That was competitive racing between them. ProCycling put Contador on the cover in Yellow this month. Totally lame. You have to ride the Tour to win it, and whoever wins this is plenty worthy. Next year’s race will be no gift for Contador by any means.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

umm,

last time I checked, Contador won the Tour last year?

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 23, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

si

but they changed his team name – sorry, i should have been more clear. they put astana on the yellow jersey as if he was wearing it this year.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

...and

.....Rasmussen’s stupidity allowed Contador to move up and he was only seconds away from second place Evans. Contador fans would like to say he is way above the competition but that is simply not the case….plus CSC is a much stronger team than Astana. Right now….my money is on Andy and CSC.

by steph- on Jul 24, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

If Contador was way above the competition in last year’s Tour, he’d have won by minutes, not seconds.

I’m looking forward to watching Andy. Next year, he should be ready, I think.

by gavia on Jul 24, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But don't forget

that next year will also have the new Super-Tinkoff team up there somewhere. I assume $30 million gets you one or two half decent GC guys. That’s assuming that they don’t go around signing lots more Steegmans when they meant to say Boonen.

by Monty. on Jul 23, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sastre getting bottles

was not a tactic to fool anyone, or at least that is my take. He was stoking the fires of the pain train baby! Whooo wooooo!

But seriously, Evans rode at his max limit the entire time. Regardless of what the Schlecks did or what Sastre did, Evans could not have gotten up the Alpe any faster. And the CSC attacks didn’t speed him up, or slow him down, or really do much of anything to him that he cannot recover from by the TT. CSC are strong like ox, but Cadel rode his own race today, and he rode it by himself. Watching Andy all smiling and enjoying the scenery was heartwarming and all, but I’m puzzled why he didn’t go up the road any earlier? What was he holding back for? Regardless, the tour is won on the Alpe, and I am about 95% confident that it was won today by Cadel. I would love to see someone win it with panache, with his hair on fire driving across the desert with the top down at 100 miles per hour with bats swooping and screeching all around, but seeing it won by a guy using nothing but pure guts, suffering like a dog, all by himself, is fucking wonderful too.

by Jimbo... on Jul 23, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Andy looked like he was locked onto Kreuzinger...

... his efforts today on the Alpe seemed directly related to White Jersey stuff as opposed to the last few days of riding in support of his brother or Sastre. I am an idiot about these things and am happy to have you correct my ill-conceived notions (You too Ursula re: my post above). When I talk strategy or cycling tactics, it’s 90% expostulation and 5% stream of conciousness… only 5% knowledge.

Regarding Cadel Evans… to paraphrase “The wheels of Cadel grind slow, but they do grind exceedingly fine”. You are right… he did this tour on his own and to watch him ride, it’s like watching a guy with a stickshift that can’t seem to get it out of fourth into fifth… he revs up but can’t make the shift… so he has to back down. If he wins, it will be done on nothing but scabs and Grinta (let us not forget that he crashed so hard earlier in the race that he cracked his freakin’ helmet… which might explain the erratic personality). For me, personally, I need some sort of personal investment in an athlete to find joy in their performance… and Cadel is sort of a blackbody object for me. So my right brain says “Congrats Cadel on doing your absolute damndest to the very soggy wet end of your tremendous ability, I’m impressed”... my left brain is still misfiring over it’s new found love of Sastre.

(I will resist all temptation to quote from Fear and Loathing so as to not hijack another thread.)

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't hate Sastre if he wins the whole enchilada!

I mean, for Chrst’s sake, what is this? The 7th or 8th Grand Tour he’s ridden in a row???

Racing for Victory and Free Beer!

by DemonCats on Jul 23, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

he skipped the Giro this year. Finally.

I’m definitely pulling for Sastre. Talk about perseverance. Also Cadel is weird.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nah Cadel attacked

or rather, Cadel burnt a ton of matches today.

But they were all burnt chasing somebody else’s skinny butt. And a lot of them were insanely stupid. Chasing down Andy “Hey I’m 9 minutes down” Schleck? Chasing down Efimkin and Goober? Chasing down Frank Schleck? As if the Schlecks were riding for Telekom or something? I counted at least 4, and there were probably more super-hard efforts out of Evans to close gaps. The unforgivable part is that if he were super-strong he should have seen how it was early and ridden the Schlecks into the ground all the way up the hill to prevent that start-stop rhythm from starting—maybe even talk to Menchov . ..

It’s not surprising, therefore, that he didn’t have much left to launch his own attack and was forced to grind it out at the end. But don’t be fooled, he WAS slowed down by the Brothers Schleck, and, imho, he panicked and made a whole bunch of efforts that he simply should not have.

by R Mc on Jul 23, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they weren't really trying to chase those moves down

The moves kept getting shut down as more riders tried to join them. The Schlecks weren’t going to let anything go without them. That Valverde-TwoSchleck move was sweet, but it was never going to last. Everyone except Cadel in that group wanted to get time on the climb. So any time a move went, they all tried to join it hoping that it would be The Move that stuck and gapped Cadel out the back. Of course, that doomed all the moves to fail, since no one was really that much stronger than all the others. Except Andy, who is as they say in Italy, fuoriclasse, which means something like HC, only it refers to riders not mountains. With the exception of Valverde, none of those guys really had the legs left to break contact, so their bridging efforts generally brought everyone along for the ride.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did he really attack?

...or did the main group push Evans in front….not allowing Evans a wheel to ride. if he wanted the yellow he would have to work for it himself. To his credit Evans stayed in front and kept riding. I would not call that an attack.

by steph- on Jul 24, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nah

Evans never attacked. You have it right, in my view. The others wanting to wear him down before the final crono forced him to work on the front. It was clear a few times, when Andy or Frankie would look back, realize Evans was behind them, and sit up or pull off to make sure Evans did the work. Good tactical riding there.

by gavia on Jul 24, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, Kreuzinger

That guy just does not register with me for some reason. And my feeble mind can only process a few tactical/strategic things at once so I view the entire race though a stage win and GC prism. If Andy was marking Kreuzinger, why not attack Kreuzinger? When other opportunities is Andy going to have to take time out of Kreuzinger? The TT?

by Jimbo... on Jul 23, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

IMHO

He can win the Giro sometime soon. Dunno about the Tour, not with the competition getting so tough. Also, Kreuz picked probably the worst team possible if he wants to win the Giro, with Basso coming in but presumably not to the Tour.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no marking

Andy probably wanted to take more time on Kreuziger than he had in hand before the start of today’s stage. He currently sits 1.30 in front of Kreuziger, which isn’t much if Kreuziger has good legs on the day. Andy needs to ride a good crono to keep white, and he would have liked to seal that particular deal on the Alpe, but team tactics prevented it.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which brings us back to the original question...

... what was Andy doing then? He didn’t attack… he didn’t really ride tempo… he marked Kreuzinger and on one occasion (maybe more) he and Frank broke out but got reeled back. Maybe Riis just told him “Ride next to Evans and smile a lot… then step on his dog”

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not much of anything

He was trying not to bore himself completely? LOL, he didn’t really have much to do today.

He marked every move that went with ease – which was silly impressive right there. He did that in the event the move stayed away and bridged across to Sastre. He wasn’t going to help anyone get across, but if they did, he was going to be there when it happened so that the team at least got an advantage in the play for the stage win, or if it was the right move, ie, Valverde who was not in the gc game, then, andy works once they make the bridge and they take more time on Evans. But none of the moves worked out. So, nuthin’ doing there. He was there to make sure that Frankie didn’t get dropped from that group – which really wasn’t going to happen, but he had to make sure it didn’t. He was also there – and Frankie helped with this – to put in those lame little jumps that didn’t establish a gap but did break up the tempo of the group and slow it down. That’s super annoying on a climb, but it does work, because the group slows down – surges and slows, surges and slows and the guy up the road gets more time. Andy couldn’t ride tempo, because then he just drags Evans up to Sastre. And he couldn’t attack on his own – though he probably had the legs – because he’d leave Frankie alone with Evans, which is a bad thing. That, and someone would likely try to hitch a ride bringing it all back together, which was really the fate of all these moves anyway.

So, pretty much, a sightseeing day for Andy, as somone said in the live thread.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

watching the stage again (MJ's first time)

I think you’re pretty much right with this:


He was trying not to bore himself completely

by Sui Juris on Jul 23, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah... he was like the little yappy dog around all the sweating panting bulldogs...

“Can we go play now? Can we go play now? Can we go play now? Can we go play now?”

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

other benefits of watching on Tivo a second time

We see a guy throw a hard right cross and hit another “fan” in the face at 3km to go, just as Sastre passes.

by Sui Juris on Jul 23, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally forgot I saw that!

It looked like a pretty damn good hit too.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jul 23, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol, yeah

that’s what it looked like to me this am ;-)

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm right with you man...

... I have the attention span of a gnat which is why the Encyclopaedic knowledge of some of those on this board astonish me.

Of course I can quote Wrath of Khan from heart… so I have that going for me.

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some smart cookies here, indeed

Whenever I think I understand what is going on, or why someone is doing something, or not doing something, someone else here comes up with a much more nuanced, wise, and complete explanation. I love the tactical strategic stuff, but if that was all that we talked about here, I would get bored and be forced to find someplace else to waste my employer’s time… Keep on bringing what you bring.

by Jimbo... on Jul 23, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

heh

Whenever I think I understand what is going on, or why someone is doing something, or not doing something, someone else here comes up with a much more nuanced, wise, and complete explanation.

... and then relates it to a questionable movie from the 80s.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 24, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great racing, for sure, but

I can’t get rid of the feeling of “what if”.

Had Boonen been there, or Ale-Jet or Benna, would Cav still won all the sprints?
Had Astana been there with Contador, Levi, Klöden and Horner?

anyway I’ve enjoyed this Tour very much, and hopefully we’ll see next year all the best riders, sprinters, climbers and GC riders on the line, sad that we missed that this year, but the racing has still been great!

by Bruce Suomi on Jul 23, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

re: Great racing...

Have there been sprint stages? I must’ve missed them. Oh yeah, that Cav guy beating Zabel and Felliu. Meh…

It’s been forever since we’ve seen all the great sprinters in one place (except for Milan Sanremo). Maybe next year….

by samboo on Jul 23, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Green jersey

big letdown. I have a post brewing about that. Unless someone beats me to the punch.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hasn't it pretty much been that for years

Lots of sprints week one, the winners all go home soon afterwards leaving the jersey to whoever had the best collection of 7th and 9th places. Or if they don’t go home they spend a week and a half in the autobus. The last decent wearer I can remember was Sean Kelly many years ago. And he wasn’t that impressed with it: “I’ve won Green twice already, I’d rather be in Yellow.”

by Monty. on Jul 23, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last year

was nip and tuck. THis year, never went anywhere.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sour grapes

Oscar would have crushed all comers this year.

"I won! I won! I don't have to go to school anymore." -- Eddy Merckx, after winning his first bike race

by ELVISGOAT on Jul 23, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

but the hotitude competition would have been a lot closer.

by Katiek on Jul 23, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For me, plenty of praise to go around.

Very impressed with the Schlecks. I didn’t think Andy was this far along. I didn’t think Frank could be this consistent in the high mountains.

Teams CSC’s for just making these stages so hard. Stuey, I did know you had that in you.

Kohl and CVV for exceeding expectations.

Cadel for taking everything CSC had to dish out and still being in the position he’s in to win it.

This Tour has been fun to watch.

by Punctured on Jul 23, 2008 5:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

With how well

the CSC trio has been riding I have to wonder at how long the three of them can be on the same team. Obviously Andy is going to win one some day, Frank has shown a lot of improvement to his consistency and Cadel will most likely have several strong years left in him. Anyone know when their Contracts are up?

"I can get motivation out of anger to get energy to drive me. You have to set your mind on it is going to hurt and it is going to hurt everybody else. So the more pain you can sustain the more you can handle. The mind has to rule the body and tell the body, shut up and do what I tell you to do and it works every now and then and if it doesn't work, you bluff. " Jens!

by Clydesdale on Jul 23, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

frankie and andy

have signed with csc pretty much for life. i forget when they’re up, but it’s a really long time from now. sastre? not sure, but he’s never shown any inclination to change teams, so i’d be surprised if he left.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that is the case

they have enough talent to have each one concentrate on his own grand tour. Frank for the Giro, Andy For the Tour and Sastre for the Vuelta. Just sprinkle in the others guys as support or one or two of the other main guns as domestique and working for shape in the next Tour. Has there ever been a Team win all three grand Tours with Three different riders?

"...The mind has to rule the body and tell the body, shut up and do what I tell you to do..." Jens!

by Clydesdale on Jul 23, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes, they could split up

I don’t think the Schlecks will, but Sastre could ride the other races. I suspect the Tour team was uber-stacked this year in the event Riis hadn’t yet found a sponsor. Then, well, it doesn’t hurt to impress the new sponsor. In the long run, Andy is the tour winner among the brothers I s’pect, and Frankie will ride for him.

by gavia on Jul 23, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Discovery did it in 2005

Heras for the Vuelta, Savoldelli for the Giro, both carrying water for His Majesty in the Tour

by Monty. on Jul 23, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scratch that

why did I think that Heras was still with Disco in 2005.

by Monty. on Jul 23, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My take because I know everyone is interested

1. Balance. I still wouldn’t say we’re looking at a dead heat. 1.34 could be taken from Sastre in less than 20K, easily. Unless you’re on something, a yellow jersey won’t make up for an inherent lack of any TT ability. I myself am a fan of the TT, have been since my first one. But slanting the Tour completely towards climbers won’t bring about a winner that is really complete. This has been a great Tour that IMO was slanted towards climbers and still might be lost to a more all around rider.

2. Drama. Again, the 1989 Tour will still be the Gold standard by which suspenseful Tours are measured. I think if anything, the TT result is more than likely going to be what we all expect: a total shelacking(sp?) of Sastre unless Cadel crashes out. To think otherwise is just wishful and unrealistic thinking. I’ve never been one to romanticize the exploits of riders like Pantani, etc. so I won’t get all teary eyed over Sastre’s ride today either. If Evans loses, he loses because he wasn’t good enough, same thing with Sastre.

3. Plans. I would like to be more impressed with CSC, but I can’t. The fact is, if this were US Postal/Discovery, Evans would be MANY minutes in arrears, not just 1.34 . CSC had a good plan, but in my opinion, they didn’t finish it off. Time to promote Andy. Individually I really like CSC’s riders. I love the riding styles of Jens!, Cance, Arvesen, and Andy. But for all their hard work, Sastre may not be able to finish this thing off, which is sad

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 23, 2008 6:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

plans

Postal had Lance. CSC’s guys, individually, are probably not as good as Evans. That’s the difference. Sastre is Sastre; Schleck is Schleck (elder that is). Neither one of them is really an obvious Tour winner… but Carlos may pull off the trick anyway. Frankie probably never will.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, so true

That’s why it kills me that Evans is on Lotto. Why in the hell doesn’t he jump ship? I’m sure he’d have no problem finding a job somewhere, pretty much anywhere. Maybe he is getting paid half of Lotto’s annual salary money, who knows? Maybe Columbia could give him a ring.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jul 23, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure

he’d love to move to more of a juggernaut. Not sure Columbia would solve the problem though. For all their goodness, they’re not an Alps team. Now if he went to Caisse d’Epargne…

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 24, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

The Tour is won by TT:ers who can climb, the Giro by climbers that can TT. As you say, even reducing the TT km’s by 25% doesn’t change that fact (barring a mechanical/ fall by Evans in the TT). Evans still needs to smoke the TT though, and win that stage with panache if his victory isn’t going to slip into obscurity in a matter of years. (Or beat Sastre by 1:35 – 1:40 for instant legendary status)

Bjarne was smiling so big I thought his head was going to crack open. Apart from being happy for Carlos’s stagewin I think the reason for that is that he has seen that SaxoBank has been able to dominate as a team, then watching Andy on the Le Alpe he saw that has the man to finish the job signed to a multiyear contract.

by Jens on Jul 24, 2008 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riis has lots of reasons to be happy

He’s not losing anyone (at least not yet) from this year’s squadra, and Andy has passed his test, his first Tour, with flying colors. He made a noob mistake on the Hautacam, but otherwise, wow, has he ridden well this Tour. That the team chemistry is very good, despite the shifting leadership roles, is also a reason to be proud of his team. Not every group of guys could have handled that scenario and played the tactics CSC did successfully. Win or lose, they’ve ridden a very good Tour, and put on a good show for their new sponsor.

by gavia on Jul 24, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But my question is --

what happened with Jens! today? I was waiting for him to come and “put on the hurt” (as somebody said) but he never did. He finished way back. Is he OK?

by NE Observer on Jul 23, 2008 6:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

[commenter banned]

I bagged that clean air rant thing. I smell comment spam. Not sure yet; if the author wants to respond, please do and I’ll consider reinstating you.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 6:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The fish lawyer thing is a front

Chris actually works for big tobacco

by Jimbo... on Jul 23, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You mean

you’ve never smoked a fish

by Monty. on Jul 23, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mmmm

If you’re ever in Neah Bay, WA… best smoked fish shack ever. since there’s only one road, you can’t miss it.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best smoked fish I ever had

is from the smoked fish shack on the south side of Lake Pendoreille in Sandpoint, ID. Yummy!

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."Emo Philips

by bethie on Jul 23, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oops... you mean... when you smoke fish...

... you’re supposed to eat it?

Ricco stole my marbles.

by crashdan on Jul 23, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lunchtime conversation

with ‘im indoors, included a challenge from him to me to name the riders on CSC, ok that’s easy, Schleck x2, Sastre, Arveson, Jens!, Cancellara, without even thinking. Then he asked, “who rides for Cadel”, and I said, Popo, uh…uh…uh…Mario Aerts? uh…

"When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me."Emo Philips

by bethie on Jul 23, 2008 6:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think your forget the

first week. Really amaizing. Many uphill sprints, breakaways suceed, slip groups, very entertaining

by semprenaroda on Jul 23, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No argument

If I had a list of 6, that’d be there.

"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."

by Chris... on Jul 23, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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