Tour Tech
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 26, 2008 7:34 AM EDT
100 comments
It's that time of year again . . . .
That's right, the beginning of the wacky season where companies start to roll out new product they've been developing in their super secret laboratories scattered through out the world to be used for that little edge over the competition.
Many of the things you will see will be available to buy at your shop by next spring, some even by this fall. Now and then, if the reported has a sharp eye and a quick trigger finger on the camera, we'll get to see those odd requests from a rider to help him one way or another.
Then there are those few ultra one-off test prototypes that are really pushing the edge of technology. That stuff which may take years for the technology to trickle down to the customer because of its' manufacturing complexity, or simply the retail cost is beyond anything we could remotely rationalize.
As I am a total bike tech geek, and I'm sure some of you here are too, I'm gonna try to toss links to all Tour Tech I can find on this post.
Please feel free to add to the list, or comment on any doodad, thingamabob, or gizmo you find interesting.
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Our first stop is Velonews.
In all honesty, Velonew tech discoveries has gotten, sadly, really bland in the last couple years.
I think this may be due to the thousand of BS emails Lennard Zinn gets on trying to fuse some 8spd Campy, or Shimano drivetrain with some 10spd parts.
I swear that man has been answering that same question, longer then Campy has even made 10 spd!
I don’t even know how long he has been forced to answer the apparently philosophical question of ‘How to clean a chain’.
That said, Zinn has a way of finding those things on the pros’ bikes most sponsors would rather you not see.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
UCI Bike Tech Rules
Apparently, the ASO is still enforcing the rules and guidelines on how the race bikes are to be set up.
Good info for the person who is curious why tech doesn’t seem to appear all that different in the last couple years.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sleepless in Brest
All those last minute changes to equipment and how that has a way of pushing a mechanic to the edge.
Let me tell you, from experience, there is nothing like changing a bunch of stuff right before a major event to essentially twist your head up more.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don Alejandro's bike
Joe Lindsey coined this name a few days ago.
I seem to like it . . . . .
Velonew has an article on the bike of the ‘Don’ which really shows the ever persistent Spanish flair to stand out in the peloton.
http://www.velonews.com/article/79440/tour-de-france-leader-alejandro-valverde-s-custom-pinarello
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's hot. So's the non-tarted-up bike...
But the Columbia TT bikes are, somehow, extra-intimidating.
(Legal with that wheel-hugging fairing-frame? That I don't know. But if not, I guess a lot of teams are in trouble.)(BTW, thanks to ZoeRochelle for finding and posting the link to Mr Keff’s photos!)
by JFS_PGH on Jul 8, 2008 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's try that again
non-tarted up Valverde bike
columbia TT bikes that look fierce
How close can a frame hug the wheel, if it’s, y’know, part of the frame? And still be legal?
by JFS_PGH on Jul 8, 2008 2:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pinarello's are like English Bulldogs.
They are so damn ugly that they are pretty.
by Mr Van P on Jul 8, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McEwen and the others is on Campy 11spd for the Tour
Not much really here, hut it is good to know who will be riding Campy 11spd, just for referance.
Alessandro Ballan – Lampre
Stin Devolder – Quick Step
Laurent Lefèvre – Bouygues Telecom
Robbie McEwen – Silence-Lotto
Maxime Monfort – Cofidis
Oscar Pereiro – Caisse d’Epargne
Manuel Quinzato – Liquigas
I find it intresting there is not one pure climber selected.
Wonder why?
http://www.velonews.com/article/79345/robbie-mcewen-forgoes-an-11-speed-bike-on-the-tour-s-first
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because you wonder if it doesn't hold up so hot to that degree of grinding?
I mean, it can’t be a weight thing. Or some other reason?
by JFS_PGH on Jul 8, 2008 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cancellara's bike
Not a very insightful tech article on his bike, but there really wasn’t much new on it from earlier this spring. Two interesting things worth pointing out that I am sure frustrates his sponsors a bit.
Cranks – FSA Gossamer crank which has traditionally been a fairly low/mid level model of cranks. I can only speculate as to why he chooses these cranks, but the official statement is that Spartacus needs these as they are stronger then the carbon options FSA offers.
The reporter said these cranks were hollow forged, which is different to what they are currently selling which are 2D forged.
I wonder if this is a typo, or a view of their next generation model?
Rear Dérailleur – It is a Dura-Ace RD, but with a different cage using different sized pulleys. The Cage and pulleys all come from some German guy named Wolfgang Berner. This modification is said to be done so ass to reduce drag and improve shifting. I am actually a bit skeptical on this as I know a bit about how much Shimano invests in Research and Development and has been testing this sort of stuff since the 80’s.
Who knows? It doesn’t seem to be hurting anything.
Link to article – http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/article/79695/tour-de-france-tech-cancellara-s-tricked-out-bike
Pic of Rear Dérailleur – http://tour-de-france.velonews.com/photo/79697
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 9, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure what that new
jockey wheel design is accomplishing? I could see going with more common FSA ceramic bearing jockeys, but I don’t see there being much of a need for a hollowed out wheel. The larger size seems awkward too.
by Mr Van P on Jul 10, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lampre’s Tour brand new Cento Uno & Crono
Some interesting tidbits on their new bikes.
Looks like they have gone the way of running an integrated BB, and it is specifically designed for Campy. It seems you will need an adapter to fit a non-Italian crank to it, which I guess this should have been expected, but all just the same I really don’t like how there now is 6 (!) different bottom bracket designs commonly sold.
Traditional English & Italian Thread
Integrated Shimano & Campy(?)
C’Dale/Spec. BB30 & Pinarello/FSA MOST
What a new gigantic pain in the ass for bike shops and customers.
A couple cool things –
Asymmetrical chainstays to prevent chainslap.
The integrated seatmast can simply be cut off to fit a normal seatpost!
That’s super cool, in my opinion.
Lastly, the Cento Uno lay-up is being bragged to be with Mitsubishi 46K carbon fiber.
If I am correct, this is approximately a 66 MSI fiber which is has a super high tensile strength but is brittle and really does not like to bend into shapes.
It is a real pain in the ass to works with.
Looking at the bike, I really wonder just how much fiber is really in the frame?
Also in the article was some talk of the teams TT bike – Cento Crono
Sadly, no pics, but they did point out that John Cobb helped with the design and the diversity of composites was 60% T-700SC carbon fiber, 25% M40J high-modulus carbon prepreg, 10% 60T high-strength carbon prepreg, and 5% Kevlar weave prepreg.
Which, if you know a little about these exotic materials, is not all that impressive.
Then again, TT bikes are more about aero and not about weight.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 21, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, the links -
There is also a similar article over at Road Bike Action
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 21, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the BB30 and other integrated models
do you really think it is as much of a pain on the shops as one would think? Removing a badly neglected bb from a bike is no easy task, nor is facing the shell or prepping the threads. Plus if you cross thread Dr. Thomposon’s Colnago frame cause the shop guy you just hired spent his lunch break blowing bones, that can be quite a headache too. Has the integrated headset been that much of a pain either?
by Mr Van P on Jul 21, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I do.
First, both integrated Headsets and BB’s are great ideas.
The problem is in the creation of so many proprietary versions which I feel, in the end, inhibit a good portion of these benefits getting to the majority of consumers in a timely fashion.
Without going into a potential coma inducing harangue, I will just say that I feel these multiple proprietary versions of Headsets and BB’s also create a huge amount of waste at every level of the supply chain, which again increases costs and at the same time reduces the ultimate benefit to the consumer.
Personally, I am all for open designs and dimensions in both the areas of the BB and the headset. With any luck, things will come back around and standardize in the near future. I really hope when things shake itself out, and if it ends in a 1 1/8” x1 1/2” headset & BB30 bottom bracket all the better.
Oh, and as for shop guys smokin’ bones.
You get what you pay for.
The majority of all bike mechanics in the US are receiving a salary equal to, or below, many of those who work in a coffee shop.
This significantly limits those with the intellectual fortitude necessary to properly care for Dr. Thomposon’s Colonago; and I’ll leave it at that.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 22, 2008 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't mean to knock shop guys
Most of the work i’ve had done has been excellent. Shop owners that I know always tell me good help is hard to find.
by Mr Van P on Jul 22, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense taken here.
The plight of the chronically overworked, and underpaid, shop guy is probably best for another thread.
Just remember this.
If the guy keeps your stuff in tip top shape, give him a tip now and then.
Maybe not money, maybe beer, or some nice food, but show your thanks to him in a way that he, and/or his department, directly gets the reward.
You will be amazed at the impact it will leave.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 22, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's take the way-back machine
to BSA threading, Italian threading, French threading, and if memory serves correctly, Swiss threading—and not just for bottom brackets, but also for freewheel threading and headsets.
I don’t disagree with your point, but the bike industry has a history of local or proprietary standards not co-existing well in a global marketplace.
Shimano Dyna-drive anyone???
by R Mc on Jul 22, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mavic’s Pro-only prototype R-SYS wheelset
The most interesting thing here is the super reduction in rim weight.
This is a really big deal as alloy rim weight has really not changed much in the last 10 years!
In fact, a lot of the rims from the early 90’s were actually lighter then almost all rims sold today!
Why? Well there is a lot of finger pointing there.
Higher testing standards.
Difficulty in sourcing quality metals.
Manufacturing locations have changed and quality has suffered.
. . . . ect.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 21, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
could it be the advent of the pre-built, as opposed to hand-built, wheel?
More to the point of the R-Sys—have you seen what happens to those wheels when a spoke breaks? It’s not a pretty sight . . .
by R Mc on Jul 22, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, no I haven't.
Does the wheel implode if one spoke blows?
Any info you got on that would be very helpful, as I am plannng on buying a new set of wheels this fall.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 22, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen one up close
and another disintegrated during the Tour Down Under (Graham Watson got a photo).
I’m still not sure what caused the failure I saw (in February during a cat4/5 race at Pace Bend (near Austin, TX). There’s a photo sequence of it out there somewhere, though, and what’s clear from that sequence is that when one spoke breaks, the rest are very likely to experience stress beyond their tensile strength—and they snap in quick succession. The poor guy it happened to was trying to stay upright in a sprint with a 0-spoke front wheel. Ugly, ugly crash.
My non-engineering-based judgment is that carbon fiber isn’t the best material to choose to serve as a wheel spoke.
by R Mc on Jul 23, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Next, off to Cyclingnews
These guys, have have tech which is really a copy ‘n paste from BikeRadar.com, but the pictures seem to be formatted a bit better in my opinion.
During this month, they provide a good dose of tech almost every day.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Behold! The bike of Thor!!!
Note the 140mm stem he is using which means his bike reacts quick as hell.
Other then that, pretty straight ahead stuff.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/probike.php?id=/tech/2008/probikes/thor_hushovd_credit_agricole_look08
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the sprinter guys...
they dig the long stems.
also, always seems to me they’re on uber-small framesets – stiff and bigger saddle-bar drop.
by gavia on Jul 8, 2008 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thor has his own
model PRO stem too. I hear it ’s uber stiff. 140cm seems long, but I agree it’s to get fitted on a smallish frame. Petacchi’s old Pinarello Dogma had a 54 cm c-c seat tube and a 58.5 c-c top tube. And a 140 stem with a -17 deg rise (which means flat), no headset spacers and his seat post was pretty much fully extended. For mere mortals it must have been like riding on a medieval rack.
by Mr Van P on Jul 8, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other way around
With long stems: it slows the steering down – acts as a damper – some mathy thing about moments of rotation or something….
by Roadent on Jul 25, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A little bit more complicated then that.
Being that the body does not change size, and thus your position depending on whatever bike you ride doe not change. Combined with the fact that the location of your foot & knee in reference to the pedal and bottom bracket also have the very same ideal locations regardless of whatever bike you are riding means that if you ride a shorter stem, your Top Tube will in fact need to be longer thus making your wheelbase longer and creating a more stable bike at higher speeds, but this also makes the bike a bit more twitchy at slower speeds because the percentage of weight on the front wheel is less then that of a bike with a shorter top tube and a longer stem; which would create the opposite effect.
*This is assuming both bikes have the same head angle, fork rake and BB height and chainstay length. If any of these were to be different the test would be a bit skewed in some way.
Please note: It is 3am and I just returned from the one pub in Taichung Taiwan that is showing the Tour.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 25, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, it's 3pm here
and makes sense, so thanks.
by Sui Juris on Jul 25, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erik Zables' new ride & some other tidbits.
A nice little write up on the latest Colonago Extreme Power Super and how it has incorporated some flavor recently presented on their new latest entry carbon frame, the CX-1. As some of you may know Colonago has been growing a relationship with Giant Bicycles Carbon Fiber division, which is one of the best manufactures on the planet in making bikes out of carbon fiber.
What is most notable on the Extreme Power Super is the addition of a tapered headtube which not only aids in stiffness and sharpens handling, but it also allows the possibility for the composite layup in the fork to be don in a manner which lowers stress risers which so often occur around in the transition of the transition of steer tube into the crown and onward to the legs.
Nice paint job too.
EZ’z Bike –
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/index.php?id=/photos/2008/tech/features/tour_newstuff_tdf08/zabel_colnago_1
The other thing I saw which was worth pointing out was that Shimano not only delivered 60 drivetrains to their team they sponsor, but they also sent a whole bunch of engineers to the tour also. This is a pretty standard thing for Shimano, but rarely ever discussed. These guys will essentially observe and take notes on all sorts of things related to the new Dura Ace Drivetrain. Things like compatibility, function, wear, ect . . .
Now, some of you might think this is standard, but really Shimano does this more then anyone else by about a 1000%. Nobody really even comes close. After every stage, these guys get all over this stuff and and examine everything you could think of, and more.
Shimano Eng pic –
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/index.php?id=/photos/2008/tech/features/tour_newstuff_tdf08/shimano_look
In the article, there is some other stuff about the new Bell helmet, and the new Oakleys, and some limited edition saddles, but that stuff is more like an infomercial then real tech stuff; in my opinion.
CN Article – http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/index.php?id=/tech/2008/features/tour_newstuff_tdf08
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 11, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Nokon's for Ete?
He used to run Nokon shift cables under the bar tape with his old DA 7800 shifters. No need anymore.
Shimano’s not fooling around with 7900. Those brake hoods look super comfy and I like the XTR-look of the cranks.
by Mr Van P on Jul 11, 2008 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colonago Extreme Power Super
“Colonago Extreme Power Super”—What, Zabel doesn’t deserve the Colonago Extreme Power Super Extra Ultra Deluxe model with a cherry on top?
Silly marketing…
-Greg
by gregm on Jul 15, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Bits & Pieces
Over at Columbia, the Cartel has embraced the ‘Just Win Baby’ attitude to the point that the riders have the right to pic whatever damn wheels they want to in order to get them across the line as fast as possible.
Though, I personally think it is pretty cool on one hand, I wonder if that is really the case, or are they just riding a bunch of wheels to see which ones they prefer for a long term relationship in the future?
On the other hand, I really can’t imagine the headache the mechanics may be having in dealing with all the various models combined flightiness of the riders preferences.
In the end, it seems to be working and that’s all which really matters, I suppose.
Funky Chainrings
Every year, so many years now I cannot even remember, there is an article on the various riders personal preference to ride some sort of non-round chainrng. The most notable rider amongst them has been Bobby Julich, but since he is not in the Tour this year CN found a whole bunch of other riders using chainrings made by a couple small companies that the the chagrin of their sponsors.
I just wish they would have taken the time and provided us with the tooth combinations for reference.
That would have been some very valuable info.
Campy & Specialized snuggle up!
This is one that is a bit surprising to see.
It seems Campy and the big ‘S’ are in some sort of collaboration on wheels using Quickstep as their ride testers.
That could be an indication of further collaborations on other components we may see in the future.
Very interesting.
CN Article – http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/index.php?id=/tech/2008/features/tour_stage_eight
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 13, 2008 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Columbia was Telekom and T- Mobile
they always had a wide selection of wheels to ride. I know some guys rode Campy and other guys like Zabel and Jan rode Lightweights. I think you’ll see a lot of rebadged wheels out there.
by Mr Van P on Jul 14, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, even today on almost every team a few top guys would get his special set of wheels but. . . .
. . . . I have never seen, or heard of a team that in a single stage would be running wheels from 6 different companies.
That, as far as I know, is not common at all.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 14, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ricco's suave Scott Addict.
An article on his bike was posted on CN.
Nice bike, basically off the shelf uberstuff.
I just wish he’d loose his lame ass self made nickname, and stop talking about Pantani every time a microphone is near him.
Lately, every time I hear Ricco talk, I keep getting the song – Rico Suave by Gerardo stuck in my head. I think they both are located in the portion of my brain that I toss this sort of lame ass stuff.
The bike is pretty cool though.
Worth checkin’ out.
CN Article – http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/probike.php?id=/tech/2008/probikes/riccardo_ricco_scott_addict_tour08
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 13, 2008 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tech Tutorial
1) Ctrl+C to copy URL
2) Type “Link”
3) Highlight “Link”, click on little chainlink above comment box (next to the tree – we’re Green, you see)
4) Ctrl+V link into pop up box.
5) Link!
(Way more people will follow, then. “Way more” is a scientifically precise quantitative term.)
:)
by Sui Juris on Jul 13, 2008 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personal Preference: also click the "open in new window" checkbox
and I will be happier after I click.
by JFS_PGH on Jul 14, 2008 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noted & noted
Sorry guys, I know a lot more about bikes then computers.
I’ll work on it though.
I promise.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 14, 2008 6:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just want to see more folks
following the links, is all :)
Very much enjoying your finds.
by Sui Juris on Jul 14, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well I;d rather not have that one if possible
I can always right click if I want a new window. I personally don’t like multiple windows fwiw
thanks for all the stuff, keep’em coming.
by lyne on Jul 14, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
So the SOP will stand as Sui Juris outlined -
1) Ctrl+C to copy URL
2) Type "Link"
3) Highlight "Link", click on little chainlink above comment box (next to the tree – we’re Green, you see)
4) Ctrl+V link into pop up box.
5) Link!
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 14, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A. Schleck's Cervélo R3-SL
A pretty straight ahead bike build.
A couple things worth noting –
Andy is running an Alpha Q GS-40 fork which is a fork designed for stiffness and improved aerodynamics over their other option. With a weight of 370g, the fork adds about 50g to the overall weight of the chassis, but when the bike is already so damn light I guess it is really irrelevant, huh?
Alpha Q is a former sponsor of CSC back in the day before they got all sexy and I am sure 3T, whome is their current sponsor for forks, is positively thrilled to get dissed by little Andy but this may have something to do with the rake of the AQ fork being 44mm and the closest 3T is 43mm. When you combine this with the potential difference in stiffness between the forks and you may get a ride that he really wasn’t that into.
Perhaps we just found a possible reason why his brother is the current ProTour leader in yard sales this year?
Maybe Frank need to slap on his old fork from last year before he uses up the rest of his 9 lives?
Another thing interesting to look at is what appears to be his stem choice and height. He’s running a 130mm/-17 degree stem with no spacers. Pretty aggressive, you’d think huh?
Well then take a look at the length of his Head Tube, it’s 160mm and so once you add this to the overall calculations, Andy really isn’t as low and aggressive you’d think.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big shout out to Sui Juris!
Thanks again for the SOP.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 8:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Ryan, I love these pieces. Thanks.
Just a thought, but why do you suppose Andy is using an FSA crankset. Are they still a sponsor of CSC, or did that end this year with their use of 3T bars and stems? Not to trash FSA, but their carbon cranks haven’t always received stellar reviews from a stiffness standpoint. On that token, Tony Sparticus is running a Veloce-level Gossamer crank for stiffness. Wouldn’t they just be all better off with Dura Ace cranks? or for Carlos and Andy, dare I say a Zipp Vuma? It seems odd that they would be contractually obliged to just an FSA crankset.
A buddy of mine just bought a new Cervelo RS and built it with DA. I must say the 3T forks are rather sweet looking in person, but I can see riders having certain rake/ride preferences. Personally, I’d cram my Cannondale Slice Premier into that headset…
by Mr Van P on Jul 15, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, this is what I know.
FSA has supported CSC intimately for a long, long time and I am sure there is a good deal of loyalty between the two. You need to consider that FSA is very open to ideas and if Riis calls up FSA with some strange idea he has regarding some component, or another, the are very likely to go make some test samples for him. These days, that is a rare thing in manufacturing. Carbon crank issues aside, I know very well that FSA will, and has done a lot of special requests for CSC.
Regarding those Gossamer Cranks, if they are finally hollow, they should be stronger, lighter, and stiffer then the lowly Veloce cranks you compared them to. I sure do hope FSA finally got those hollow cranks out. They’ve been working on them now for over 4 years!
With forks on the other hand, they are a lot like running shoes. There are a lot of different versions and they all act a little different too. Then, each rider has their own preference as well. Back when I was with a team, they were sponsored by Reynolds Composites and the team was riding on the Ouzo Pro fork, which I still think is one of the best forks ever. Unfortunately, a couple of the riders who were sprinters thought the fork was too soft and complained almost every day until Reynolds sent us some super stiff versions.
Once installed they were so happy, but when I took one of their bikes for a spin, that thing was insanely harsh and I would have hated to be on that bike every day.
That was just a different carbon lay-up on the same fork!
Who knows really.
I hear if you send an email to CSC asking why, they often will actually give you an honest answer.
That might be worth the a shot?
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, Veloce is a low blow.
Let’s say Centaur, but your point is well taken. FSA is innovative for sure and although some of the reviews on the K-Force cranks haven’t been glowing, the same can’t be said for their headsets, bars, stems (is there a brand of stem more popular on the pro tour than FSA right now?), posts etc. they are also front and center on the BB30 which i like.
On forks, I think people tend to think of them as an afterthought, but the pro’s obvioulsy don’t. With all the system integration taking place, i wonder if Reynolds, Easton, True Temper et al, will come out with aftermarket 1 1/8-1 1/2 tapered models?
by Mr Van P on Jul 15, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One mm of rake?
Does that make that much of a difference really? Not being a smartass, I’m genuinely curious what you guys would say about that. Has anyone here ever swapped out their forks for a single mm more, or less, of rake and can comment on this from experience?
by Jimbo... on Jul 15, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have, and yes I did.
I will say that you only really notice something like 1mm rake when you have ridden a long time on one fork at pretty high speed before you switch to another and then do the same route at the same speed.
It is most noticeable on a tight and twisty downhill that you have done a bunch of times, and you happen to really like going fast down it.
My swap test was between a Reynolds and an Alpha Q fork.
Much of what I noticed was in the ‘feel’ for the fork.
The Reynolds (43 rake) was a tad bit slower and noticeably smoother.
The Alpha Q (44) was a bit quicker and much stiffer.
I ended up choosing a Reynolds fork with a 45mm rake.
Smooth and quick; just the way I like it.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally . . .
. . . if you really wanted to perform this test properly, you would get a fork and have two sets of dropouts made that would make the fork two different rakes with a 1mm difference.
You would use the same fork so as to eliminate any possible variance that may occur if you used multiple forks.
Things like slight differences in the carbon lay-up, for instance.
You would bond one set of dropouts in and ride it for oh, a week of riding at high speeds, as much as possible, on twisty roads.
Then, you would debond the first dropouts, bond in the other ones and repeat the same routes at the same relative speed, or whatever you felt comfortable.
You would probably have a simple computer on the bike to record speeds and what not, but really the majority of data will come from rider feedback so it will be heavily bias to the riders preferences.
In the past, I have tried to create a generic ‘if-then’ sort of fork recommendation to riders. Like ‘if’ your a race, ‘then’ you will really want this fork, but that has never seemed to hold up in practice.
The best analogy I can say is what I said up top, forks are like running shoes. Sadly, if you really want to find the best fork that fits your desired performances, you will need to buy a bunch of them and try them out over a summer.
Now days that whole idea is really a moot point, as so many frame manufactures have forks which are specifically integrated in their looks for that bike that it would be very difficult to do this, unless you were on a custom frame like a Seven, or a Rocklobster, or whatever.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
It’s like training your palate to be able to taste the subtle differences in wine, I imagine. In the world of forks, I’m still at the wine tasting stage of a person who thinks all wines taste the same. I have the Reynolds Ouzo Pro fork on my bike, which I love, but I have no idea what the rake is (or have any idea how to figure it out) and I don’t have the experience with other forks to be able ‘taste’ the difference.
by Jimbo... on Jul 17, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aero gear for road stages
CN took a stroll through the pits a couple days back and noticed a whole bunch of aero components on the riders standard bikes and even a lot of the bikes are looking as aero as those used for TT’s a couple years ago.
One of the reasons for this is that technology and manufacturing has gained so much ground that the strength to weight ratio of these components has become really amazing.
Complain all you want about the UCI and their weight minimum for bikes, but I happen to think it is pretty cool to see the new Felt with loaded with Zipp wheels, SRM & a Garmin computer, and still be just barely the the weight minimum.
Without that rule, we’d never learn the data of some riders efforts in key stages.
Pretty cool stuff all around.
CN Article
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 21, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pozzato's SuperSix
In my opinion, this is a really great looking bike.
A couple things I find interesting.
The cranks – It seems even though Cannondale has spec’ed their own brand carbon cranks for many years now Liquigas is riding on the same old alloy cranks that have been around for quite a long time.
They are still super light, and super strong, but I just wonder what the issue is with the carbon cranks, which are supposed to be even lighter and even stiffer then their alloy version.
Also, note the traditional alloy bars. According to my unscientific observations, most riders in this tour seem to prefer the tradition bar, in alloy; followed by the ‘New Ergo’ bar, regardless of the sponsor.
I feel I should disclose that I am a huge proponent of the traditional road bar shape, and I can only hope the fad of the Ergo bar is finally fading out.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 22, 2008 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ergo v traditional
I noticed that too. And…what’s with the superlong stems these days? I guess with all the compact geometry abounding, pros are going long in the cockpit.
by itswells on Jul 22, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to be common for pros to ride tiny bikes.
e.g: Bettini (5’7”) is riding a Specialized XS (49cm) with a 120mm or 130mm stem. There’s loads of other examples but I’m just too lazy to go picking through all the websites.
But it’s noticable even when watching on the teevee. Pro men riding little bikes with long stems and showing lady-like amounts of seatpost.
And I’ll just leave that women’s specific road bike fit discussion over there. Waaaaay over there.
by marian on Jul 22, 2008 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This 'n that, and some other things.
CN has a new article showing some more cool stuff they’ve spotted these last couple weeks.
Some things they pointed out that I thought looked interesting were -
Time RXR Ulteam – CN took pics of the bike on top of the Bouygues Telecom team car.
The frame is a bit more aero ‘ala the new Felt AR and the OG trend setter, the Cervelo Solist.
The bike is a bit pudgy at a claimed weight of about 1000g (!), and I’m sure you know what that means!
It’s uh, a whopping 85g more then their stock VXRS.
I felt the pics weren’t that helpful, so I did a quick Google search for some other pics for your pleasure –
Da’ Frame & Da’ Bike
Sastre was running the K-Force Light Titanium and elliptical Rotor Q-Rings. Sadly, again the tooth size of the rings was not referenced.
Freire is running some blue brake pads on his carbon rims. They were reportedly not SWISSSTOP brake pads, and I know that Shimano has used Koolstop for assistance on pad technology in the past, so maybe they are using them again, or this is some new homegrown proto’s?
Barloworld done gone and doped up their MAVIC R-SYS rim sidewalls in the hopes they wouldn’t loose anymore bikes for the remainder of this tour. I haven’t seen that handy work performed in on anything but wheels on trials bikes for over a decade; I just wonder why?
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 24, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blue pad mystery solved.
On a side note, I was able to briefly test Shimano’s new "blue" carbon-specific brake pads that will be interchangeable with carbon or alloy sidewall rims. After a full day of riding with blue using standard Shimano tubeless wheels the pads, despite being made for carbon, worked wonderfully on alloy.
Bicycling .com
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 25, 2008 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally!! A decent article on Kirchen's Prototype TT rig
Giant is claiming this bike is "The fastest UCI-approved TT bike ever in the history of competitive cycling."
Which, by my rough calculations, means there is around 6 fastest ever bikes in this years Tour , and doesn’t even include Trek or Scott!
That bike does look pretty damn fast though.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 25, 2008 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CVV's Felt DA TT Bike
Since their inception, Felt has always pushed the envelope of aerodynamics on their TT/Tri bikes.
What is most notable with this frame is mainly in the front end, and the paradox of the brake locations.
The fork – A very nice integrated and highly effective carbon aero triple clamp design based on the, much thought of as dead, one inch steerer. By building the fork in this way, it allows Felt to legally stretch out the UCI-mandated *aspect ratio of 3:1 to 6:1!
I also happen to like the idea of the adjustable step, though I think they it could use bit of design work on the 2.0 version. It looks a bit flexy, but I have never even seen this bike, so that is really just supposition
Brake location oddities – Some of you may well know the the front end of the bike is the most crucial for aerodynamics, and yet they locate the front brake in it’s traditional location, which is becoming very unfashionable now on TT bikes. Conversely, Felt located the real brake in a probably the most ideal location which is right behind the BB, yet in theory the aerodynamic advantages to this is actually pretty small.
I suspect maybe this was done simply because the frame to fork integration was not able to easily accept brake behind the fork? Maybe their project time line was a bit too aggressive and they didn’t have the time? Or maybe they ran tests in both the wind tunnel as well as on the computer and simply found that moving the brake to the back was more of a chotchke then functional?
Either way, it’s a good looking bike and I feel they get points at not claiming that it is the fastest TT rig in the history of all TT bikes ever.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 26, 2008 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cadel Evans' Ridley
Again, note the differance in height between the saddle to the bar.
Huge drop.
Not much else to talk about, as expected every bearing is ceramic, but other then that the bike is basically off the shelf.
Maybe when we hit the mountains, he’ll pull out something specail?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/probike.php?id=/tech/2008/probikes/cadel_evans_ridley_helium08
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cadel Evans' Ridley TT Bike
Fork and Seat Stays designed with the assistance of Oval; which was originally inspired by aero innovation legend John Cobb.
Virtual saddle angle appears to be fairly neutral, if not a wee bit back from the limit the UCI allows TT bikes in races.
An interesting note on his impressive saddle to bar drop – When you look at the bike alone, the drop appears almost deadly, but when you look at Evans on his bike his position it is far from being as super aero as you would think.
Like to the Article – http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/probike.php?id=/tech/2008/probikes/cadel_evans_ridley_dean08
Link to a pic of the whole bike – http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/tech/probike.php?id=/photos/2008/tech/probikes/cadel_evans_ridley_dean08/ce_rd_complete_bike
Link to Cadel during the TT yesterday – http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2008/tour08/index.php?id=/photos/2008/tour08/tour084/bettiniphoto_0028701_1_full
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 9, 2008 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The big surprise, Slowtwitch.com!
Dan Empfield has traveled over to France and has gathered some good articles on bike tech. Being that Dan is a decidedly focused on bike tech relevant to triathlons his info will be leaning in that direction. That said, Dan is, and has always been attracted to the bleeding edge of bike tech.
You may agree, or you may disagree, with Dan but what he says is always interesting, and he has always looked at things from a different perspective.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What the heck is that?
Day one and Dan pulls out a tech thingy I have no idea what it is, or why it would be used.
The Berner rear derailleur???
Funky looking . . . . . I guess I’ll need to dig around on that one a bit.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/Slowtwitch.com_at_the_Tour_de_France_421.html
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose it can't drop the chain, but doesn't that path have to mean more resistance?
Seems like there has to be a tight turn involved.
by JFS_PGH on Jul 8, 2008 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jay Prasuhn steps up with all kinds of coolness
Whoa . . .
That guy took some great pics of some really cool stuff.
You’ve just gotta check it out for yourself.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/Continued_Coverage_of_the_2008_Tour_de_France_422.html
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Popov's Ridley Noah
Very interesting the amount of development Ridley is doing this year.
I am actually surprised the fork on their new TT frame – Dean falls within UCI regulations.
That thing is pretty wide, but I guess they wouldn’t have it here if they didn’t check with the UCI during the development process that the design was ‘ok’; for the sake of Cadel, I hope they did.
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FSA asymmetrical chainrings and some other stuff.
This is a nice bit of news as it may mean availability and cost could soon come to a point where this idea might actually be tested in the real world by a lot of different people riding many different ways.
The idea is a good one, but I have never really had a chance to ride on them in order to find out for myself.
Anyone have experience with asymmetrical chainrings?
They seem to have become more and more common in the peloton over the years.
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/More_from_le_Tour_2008_426.html
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 8, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very cool thready.
keep it coming :-)
so heart the shiny toys.
btw, for linkies: a href=”http://cool link.php” i left off the < > on either side of that of course. i can’t remember the code for writing html code without having it become html code. uh, whatever.
by gavia on Jul 8, 2008 1:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just another vote
to say keep going with this stuff. I am slightly relieved that you are getting this stuff from close up photos and not from just watching the races. That scared me.
by Monty. on Jul 8, 2008 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This may sound strange coming from a Campy guy but
the new Dura Ace looks quite nice when you see it live. IF I was starting from scratch, I would have a lot of trouble choosing betwenn DA 7900 and Record. Super Record is just too damn expensive.
by Mr Van P on Jul 8, 2008 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup, having a good time riding in
North Carolina. Sticking to short fast rides, but the roads are nice and the drivers seem to be very considerate. Tip: get out early before the temps hit 100.
by Mr Van P on Jul 8, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Asheville riding
There’s tons of riding around Asheville. Pick a route and you eventually end up on some part of the Blue Ridge Parkway some way or another. Get more towards Tenessee and you are staring at more grunts to sustained climbs.
by spokejunky on Jul 16, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personalizing the bikes
Bike Radar article here. Superfluous – but very cool.
by Sui Juris on Jul 13, 2008 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ah, another mystery solved. From your link, Mark:
Technically speaking, there is nothing unique on Valverde’s bike as compared to those of his Caisse d’Epargne teammates. However, it couldn’t be more different visually with its bright yellow and red paintjob to match his national flag and the words, ‘Don Alejandro‘ and ‘Prince of Spain’ boldly emblazoned on the top and down tubes.
We were all just talking about that in a race thread the other day…Merci.
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. - George Carlin
by Ruthann on Jul 14, 2008 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wheres the tape holding the mini-pump?
Look back on the “Bobke Strut” and see what I mean. Nothing like Oscar for that high tech stuff.
by Markk on Jul 16, 2008 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice..
I wonder if he lost the little mounting bracket that came with it…
by Mr Van P on Jul 17, 2008 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the made up interview
Bobke Strut: Hey Oscar, why not a mini-pump bracket?
Oscar Freire: Well…I think Ernesto Colnago would crap his pants if one of those brackets appeared on my ride.
BS: And duct tape is ok?
OF: Hell yeah.
BS: What about jersey pockets?
OF: But that would mess up the exquisite lines of my kit. Plus, don’t you know that guys like me don’t have functioning pockets? They’re sewn shut, just there for show. If I need something to eat, I just stop at somebody’s house. Everyone in Torrelavega knows Oscar Freire. If I need a tube, I flag down a fellow cyclist and he gives me his. If he doesn’t have a spare tube, then I just take one out of his wheel. Then he gets on the cell and calls to get picked up.
BS: Then why bother with the mini-pump? Wouldn’t said rider have a pump you could scam, too?
OF: I need it to whack smart-ass journalists upside the head. No more questions from you…”
Makes Oscar one of my favorite guys. Also shamelessly lifted from the same post REAL quotes that show the true Oscar:
On using an SRM: "Are you trying to turn me into one of those crazy riders or what?"
Paris-Roubaix: "Roubaix is a nice race to watch on TV, but not to ride…We were doing 60kph as we rode into the [Arenberg] forest and never in my life would I have thought we were going to turn down that road."
Rainy training rides: "Stay at home and ride the rollers"
Training volume: "I go well with relatively little training…if I did as much as Erik Zabel I wouldn’t win anything"
by Markk on Jul 18, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RYAN
Good stuff here, thanks. You put my own bike-tech-geekitude to shame.
Re: CN’s bit about A. Schleck’s R3-SL, they said ”...the derailleur housing ferrules are drilled out for smoother operation.”??? Smoother operation? I have a tough time figuring this one out. Any insight/history on this?
I also have a question about SRAM Red’s trickle down features I’ve been meaning to ask you but I’ll wait for another day/thread.
by itswells on Jul 15, 2008 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shimano derailleur housing
is a smaller 4mm diameter compared to the normal 5mm for Campy (or Shimano break housing). the ferrules are failry tight which helps seal the cables from dirt, water, and general road muck. By drilling them out it would allow for less friction in the shifting, but may decrease the longevity of the cables.
by Mr Van P on Jul 15, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What he said and . . .
. . . so that means the CSC mechanics havee been swapping out housing on bikes like every 3, or 4 days because of all the rain.
That’s could be up to 40-50 cable/housing swaps the maechanics will do just in this Tour!
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for the terrible spelling
I tried to write this before I had my coffee in the morning
by Ryan_Liles on Jul 15, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, when CN mentions "smoother operation", what they really meant
was less friction when shifting due to the adjustment ferrule being “loose”, i.e. “weakened” by the holes which causes less friction on the derailleur cable/pull action?
Oh, OK. Why didn’t they just say so?
I finally comprehend what you guys are saying, it seems kind of a reach to me, though.
by itswells on Jul 15, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
personally
I don’t mess around with cables. I just install them the way theyre supposed to be. Too many other thinks to obsess over.
by Mr Van P on Jul 15, 2008 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
speaking of tech...
I’m posting from the iTouch I bought Mrs Van P for her b-day. Neat little device.
by Mr Van P on Jul 15, 2008 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how long did it take you to tap
that sentence out?
:)
by Sui Juris on Jul 15, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with my fat fingers it took me 4 tries
just to type “Mrs”.
by Mr Van P on Jul 16, 2008 6:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and
what are the chances Mrs. Van P will have her hands on it any time soon?
by itswells on Jul 16, 2008 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slim, but It's the little Van P's that are
monopolizing it…
by Mr Van P on Jul 16, 2008 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not specifically tour related but
2009 Specialized bikes out tomorrow.
by marian on Jul 24, 2008 5:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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