Olympic Disappointment: Doping Positive
Perhaps it's just my excessively rosy outlook on life, but I was really hoping we could get through the Olympics without having a doping issue to talk about. Unfortunately, it looks like Maria Isabel Moreno (website) took that from us, with a positive test for EPO. The details aren't entirely clear at the moment, but I'm sure we'll know more than we ever wanted to, soon enough.
Update: The short version is that Moreno was tested on July 31 and left the same day, never even entering the women's road race. Sounds like she knew what was coming. The latest release on her website is announcing that she won't be talking to the media today. And with that, I think that's the last time any of us will be giving her any attention, barring some useful finger pointing at the supply chain.
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And
this is the link of her press release (the dates confuse me) about the situation. To my intermediate-spanish eye, it looks like the usual stalling for time announcement that comes out after a positive is announced.
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 1:22 AM EDT
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anxiety attack indeed… didn’t even wait for the results… Not supriesed at all in light of the Giro/TdF testing. I’m waiting to see what happens with swimming. WR’s are tumbling in inhuman numbers
by Fred Marx on
Aug 11, 2008 1:23 AM EDT
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It's the miracleSUIT. LOL Yeah right.
There’s a sport that’s in for the same type of rough awakening that we have experienced these last years. my friends laugh at me when I try to tell them that they need to take all swimming/ crosscountry skiing-results since 1993 with a grain of salt. It’s just cycling that has these problems you know….......
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on
Aug 11, 2008 4:32 AM EDT
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things that make you wonder
I watched the womens weight lifting a couple of days ago.
I had a bit of a double take moment with Belarusian weightlifter Anastasia Novikova. Giant head, square jaw, bad acne at age 26. Hmmmm.

by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 10:17 AM EDT
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I find the women's weightlifting grimly fascinating.
One of the most compelling viewing experiences in the Games!
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 10:31 AM EDT
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I really enjoyed it
However, I think poor Anastasia is on the juice.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 10:32 AM EDT
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and actually, that's a good topic for a new thread
Any “new to you” sports that you found compelling.
and the flip side, sports that nobody should watch.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 10:34 AM EDT
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I know many men won't agree
but beach volleyball is a real no no in my book!
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 10:40 AM EDT
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my only complaint about women's beach volleyball
is their suits aren’t revealing enough.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 10:54 AM EDT
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my complaint is the guys get away with wearing shirts....
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on
Aug 11, 2008 3:12 PM EDT
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Personally I don't like the fact that the male swimmers
now wear these all in one thingies. How are we girls supposed to see their beautifully honed physiques now?
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 4:37 PM EDT
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The second they're out of the pool the unzip and strut...
happens all the time.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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And Dan knows this...
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 11, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
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I also know that ...
... you can’t avoid seeing a dude’s junk when watching the slo mo replay of a field sprint. I mean it’s right there in front of you…
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:17 PM EDT
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Ewe. I'll stick with the unzipping in swimming. LOL!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 11, 2008 5:18 PM EDT
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I had indeed noticed the unzipping occurring
but they don’t show enough of it IMHO. Michael Phelps seems to like showing off his body but I think there’s something quite disturing about his torso-it’s so long and flat looking!
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 4:58 PM EDT
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that long flat torso
is precisely one of the genetic gifts that give him his edge, combined with shorter (in relation to his torso), powerful legs. the guy was born to swim. i agree, elite swimmers’ bodies can look a little weird/distorted compared to other athletes. of course, cyclists are all legs and no arms or upper bodies to speak of.
in my experience, swimmers (myself included) get so used to hanging around almost naked that we become very unself-conscious. and it’s a relief to peel off those body suits once you’re out of the water.
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 10:32 PM EDT
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Don't forget
the gills in his neck. Those give him a big advantage too.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by Drew... on
Aug 12, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
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He must get confused...
...surrounded by dryland.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 12:44 PM EDT
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i think Thorpe was much better
benefict for swim, big hand, big feets, like a fins.
But the big difference that i see in Phelps, his underwater kicks after the turn, especially the last in the race. Compared with other guys, is almost ridiculous his advantage, he win a half body, and almost a half body with his main rivals in that race.
The next time notice when he push the wall, his direction of the arms is much more for bottom of the pool, and he can compensate with the kicks.
by semprenaroda on
Aug 12, 2008 12:21 AM EDT
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we need...
a swimming forum! lol! i am a huge Thorpe fan, and i agree with your comments about Phelps and his kick. Thorpe is a kick-biased swimmer, but a different style, and those feet…!
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 12:56 AM EDT
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i'm anxious to see
100m freestyle (men).
i bet that is the most dificult race in OG to guess the winner , (ok, cycling not inclued). Almost 7 or 8 guys are trully candidate. I liked very much to see Hoggenband winning again, but i think for him is almost impossible…
by semprenaroda on
Aug 12, 2008 1:40 AM EDT
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and i'm looking forward to
the 4×200 free men’s relay! but i’ll stop talking about swimming now :)
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 10:47 AM EDT
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Why? Good stuff!
Phelps has said he spent time working on his turns after the 2004 games against Thorpe. He focused on improving them and it truly shows in these games. The speed and power he puts into kicking off the wall gains him like a 1/2 body length on others. Although having watched him the last couple years, his improvements have been steady. :-) He continues to impress me and I’m excited for him!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 12, 2008 12:04 PM EDT
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ok then... :)
i agree – off the wall he looks great with that powerful kick. in fact, his overall power is stunning. what’s really working, too, is his focus – he seems to be right inside his own best form.
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
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Funny... if we saw performance like Phelps'...
... in Road Racing, the quantity of screaming from on high about PEDs would be deafening.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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Nope....
Just like the ones I believe with cycling, with the extra internal testing, Phelps too is signed up on that kind of program. If he wasn’t I think you’d hear the same rumors. Hard to argue his talent when it’s been steady and he has the testing to back it up that he’s clean. If cyclists perform and come from that kind of testing, I tend to think – “great talent” before I think “doper.”
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 12, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
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i feel like i have...
a somewhat better grasp on what a physique like Phelps’ and that level of training can do in swimming. also, in the finals the time gaps are not that ridiculous and it’s easier to get my head around a few hundredths of a second difference than many minutes or skyrocketing up a hillside way out in front of the best in your discipline. Phelps has good, consistent competition, he just has that extra edge like other great swimmers have had. he doesn’t completely smash the competition, he just does them one better. that, with the program he’s on, makes me think he’s clean.
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 6:10 PM EDT
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Please don't misunderstand... I'm not accusing Phelps at ALL!
I’m only saying that with the margins of his victories, last night he beat the competition in the whateveritwas he raced by nearly 2 full seconds and bested his on world record by nearly half a second, if that were to happen in cycling there would be an effluence of cynicism thrown at the endeavor.
Effluence is your word of the day… use it in a sentence with Shuttlecock.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 6:42 PM EDT
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i didn't think
you were accusing him – it’s a valid point. for me the difference is in how i understand peak performance in swimming vs cycling. check out my posted link in the official swimming thread offering some analysis of the ridiculous times swimmers are turning in at Beijing.
Taufik Hidayat could not counter the effluence of the shuttlecock from the racket of Wong Choong Hann.
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 6:56 PM EDT
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I didn't think you were accusing either
and I’ve been battling co-workers all year on “doping” issues in cycling and now the one is having a field day with swimming. I talk about the testing some are doing and they just roll their eyes. Sad I think to not be able to want to believe.
Due to an effluence of a cycling coming my way tonight, I think it may be time to leave work, as if I stay, I will surely be shuttlecocked by morning. (Okay did I even use those in the right context? Probably not. It’s late. Time to leave work.)
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 12, 2008 7:36 PM EDT
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If we can use doodsmak and ploegmanager
you can use shuttlecock however you want.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 8:39 PM EDT
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i suspect...
though I could be wrong, that a sidebar discussion of swimming wouldn’t totally be frowned upon.
but i defer to the editor-in-chief guy on this, of course :-)
by gavia on
Aug 12, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
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Go fer it
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 12, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
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Just created a fanpost...
... linkage.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 6:07 PM EDT
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There's a whole internet full of naked ladies out there
Lingerie catalogues are so 1950s
by Monty. on
Aug 12, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
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Man, I went to high school with a couple girls that look like her and . . .
. . .They weren’t on the sauce, they were just apart of the softball team.
Hahahaha
by Ryan_Liles on
Aug 11, 2008 11:01 AM EDT
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can we stay a bit further away from the negative use of gay stereotypes...
...male OR female?
Also, anyone else notice that several posts have recently conflated the concepts of “muscular,” “masculine,” “lesbian” and “unattractive”? Anyone else find this public display of personal anxiety (on the part of the posters) and careless shaming (of the athletes) distinctly unsavory?
If someone has stupid hair or ugly clothes, that’s fair game. But when it comes to bodies, that’s something else. There’s a big difference between featuring your pick for “hottitude” and your pick for what is basically your “dog of the week.” It’s friendly to share what you like. It’s jerk-like to share what turns you off. The athletes are there to compete, not to turn our various cranks, nor to convince anyone that they are heterosexual.
If some of them are visions of male or female beauty (in whatever version works for you), by all means share your appreciation. If you have “before” and “after” pictures that make you suspicious of roid use (or, well, I guess acne is fair game), fine. Going after someone for having a square jaw, without seeing her family photos? Very borderline. And the other thread, where someone was basically called out for uglitude? Not cool.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 11, 2008 11:16 AM EDT
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borderline?
If I thought Peeps, Cobo, and Ricco’s performance at the TdF was suspicious, I’m not going to give Anastasia a free pass because I don’t know what her mom looks like!
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
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Thank you for the reminder JFS
I think people can do ‘hotness’ threads in a fun way that doesn’t veer off into gay/lesbian jokes. I’m not policing commentary; just pointing out the topics that might get in the way of our harmonious chatter here. You guys can figure out the rest.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 1:46 PM EDT
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No problem JFS . . . .
. . . actually, it wasn’t my intent to even suggest that she was even ugly.
I was just trying to point out that everyone comes in all shapes and sizes without the need of chemicals.
Personally, I’m not into raising suspicion on anyone that they may be juiced up, just because how they may look, and I am also even less into the whole ‘uglitude’ thing as well.
Lastly, I really apologize that my use of words made you think I was referencing gay stereotypes ‘cause that was not my intent; what so ever.
by Ryan_Liles on
Aug 12, 2008 6:18 AM EDT
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I too missed the homosexual reference
But I was hugely offended by your callous disregard for softball and wept for a week.
I guess it’s been too long since college in the 90s. And when I write that, I don’t mean to imply that my college softball team was entirely composed of lesbians. (Not that there is anything wrong with that!) And I don’t mean to imply that a softball team should only be composed of heterosexual women. Nor should one assume that a softball team that’s composed entirely of fat, drunk men is 100% hetero.
What I was referring to was being out of practice with my political correctness. I used to carry a guide of jokes that had been approved by the womens study faculty at my school and referred to that any time I wanted to make a wise crack. The great thing about the guide was it could also be used as a book mark, which made it very convenient to carry.
by KevinK on
Aug 12, 2008 3:31 PM EDT
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apparently the opening ceremony planners
discriminate against the less attractive… The cute little girl who sang “Ode to the Motherland” at the opening ceremony was lip synching.
by KevinK on
Aug 12, 2008 3:10 PM EDT
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Not only do they hide the ugly ones
But Beijing even has its own branch of Hooters
by Monty. on
Aug 12, 2008 3:19 PM EDT
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Ah, another Chinese knock-off
It’s the C Music Factory video approach, eh?
(I sometimes marvel at my own cleverness)
by Sui Juris on
Aug 12, 2008 4:40 PM EDT
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Is that real?
That’s awful. And sorry but the “real” girl looks just fine. Not this little cover girl kiddie, but certainly not ugly. Awful decision if it’s in fact true.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 12, 2008 5:51 PM EDT
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i saw some liftings
and i so impressed with the knees of this guy!!!
the ligaments knees maybe has the most pained muscule? poor ligaments.
Congratulations with yours 4×100 freeestyle, amazing winning against frenchs.Like this race, the finals yesterday are so amazing: Kitajima with a great turn and second 50m.
And the 400 freestyle a great win, ADlington winnig in the last touch!! despite Hoof domination.
by semprenaroda on
Aug 11, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
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Kitajima...
... competitive Breaststroke… dumbest… event… ever…
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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you're not sour...
about Hayden, are you? ;) i remember a few years back when i was coaching a breaststroke workout, one of our best free and fly sprinters just stopped swimming, looked up at me and said “who invented this stroke? this is the stupidest stroke!” i couldn’t argue…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 1:14 PM EDT
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er,
that’s Hansen. i transposing Hayden and Hansen…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 1:17 PM EDT
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Nope... not sour :-)
... I just think that’s the goofiest thing in the world to perform and then try and look all warrior-like about when you’re done. I mean, does Kitajima have any idea what he looks like during the event? Cause if he doesn’t, he should watch… he might be dissuaded from his Divine Yell at the end. It’s like whack-a-mole in a pool.
DISCLAIMER: I MAKE NO COMMENTARY ABOUT THE MASCULINITY OR NON-MASCULINITY OF A SPORTING EVENT WITH MY FOLLOWING COMMENT…
It is as goofy to watch as competitive walking. They might as well have competitive chicken imitating.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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what's less worthy
synchronized diving or the breaststroke?
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
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Rythmic Gymnastics
I think it’s been dropped from the Olympics this year.
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 1:50 PM EDT
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events with an outcome that's strictly dependent
on the judges is pretty hard to watch.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 1:53 PM EDT
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I'm torn
I was a diver in High School. Even though I think that diving scoring is more objective than Gymnastics scoring, it’s still too subjective.
In my Olympics there would be no events with “style points”
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
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Diving is fine
but how can you possibly judge synchro diving without slow motion tv replay? I was watching it last night and the only thing I could be sure of each time was that 2 people jumped off the boards at the same time and basically entered the water at the same time.
Other than that I had no idea what they looked like.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by Drew... on
Aug 11, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
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I speak not to the actual...
... competitiveness or lack there of of any sporting event. I merely state that, categorically, under the new world regime of Imperatrix Mundi Daniel, those participating in Breaststroke and Race Walking will be sat down, Clockwork Orange style, and forced to watch Beerfest repeatedly with Pachabel’s Canon playing in the background.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 3:01 PM EDT
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you need to watch
the 200 Breast – you might find it more elegant…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 3:16 PM EDT
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great way to
screw up your shoulders and knees . . .
grumble . . . grumble, grumble
by R Mc on
Aug 11, 2008 4:18 PM EDT
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Watching the 200 Breast
will screw up my shoulders and knees? :)
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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that depends on
the position you’re in while you’re watching, dan…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 10:35 PM EDT
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Hee hee!
But it’s such a lovely feeling when you do it right and a little delayed vortex of water rolls along your legs. No, agreed, the old-style breaststoke is good for crossing a lake, slowly, while seeing where you are going. The new is, indeed, for screwing up your hips and knees.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 12, 2008 9:23 PM EDT
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you'll get no argument
from me there! i gave up breaststroke years ago.
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 10:34 PM EDT
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Divers Relay
In High School, if we were beating up on the other team in a meet, we would field a “divers relay” for the IM relay, which was held last.
I swam the breaststroke.
The bizarre thing is that Butterfly is a derivative of Breaststroke.
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 4:11 PM EDT
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One more discipline
and you’ve got your own triathlon of hell.
by Monty. on
Aug 12, 2008 2:31 PM EDT
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Vespa Pizza Delivery...
There you go!
First Leg: 1500m breaststroke
Second Leg: 15 Pizza’s delivered by Vespa
Third Leg: 5 mile race walking
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
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And you guys
probably never heard of the banned Mt T commercial
by Monty. on
Aug 12, 2008 3:13 PM EDT
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I saw that...
... and the statement he read on the Bill O’Reilly show (It was on at the gym… I had no choice). Probably one of the most straight up “official statements” I’ve ever heard. Not the most gifted of readers, but truly genuine that Mr. T.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 4:26 PM EDT
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And the bizarre thing is
that absolutely no-one over here complained. Not only that but they even had famous gay people queuing up on news programmes to say that they found it funny.
by Monty. on
Aug 13, 2008 12:11 AM EDT
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well
i found it pretty darn funny, too, and i play for the other team as do some of the best athletes i’ve known. sometimes it’s about context and tone. and sometimes what’s offensive is that someone says something as though none of us would be listening/reading. being excluded by assumption or made invisible or the brunt of an inside joke that you just happened to hear can be worse than a head-on insult. as for Mr. T’s commercial, it’s right out there, and i’m still chuckling…
by nickel17 on
Aug 13, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
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you talk about Triathlon...
Vanessa !!! Vanessa!! Vanessa Fernandes (daughter of Venceslau Fernandes, a winner of 1984 TdP) .....for the GOLD!!!
PS: check the email Crashdan (i swear is the last)
by semprenaroda on
Aug 12, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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I didn't get any email man...
... I’ll check the spam filter. No worries… happy to help :)
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 12, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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I bet people say the same to you
when watching a cycling sprint.
“How could you make anything out? All I saw was 60 bikes in a lump riding really fast and one guy won, apparently.”
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on
Aug 11, 2008 3:22 PM EDT
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Sure
But it’s not subjective. Someone clearly wins.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by Drew... on
Aug 11, 2008 4:17 PM EDT
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What I meant was
Just because we aren’t competent to make out decisive details in real time, that doesn’t mean the judges aren’t. I have no opinion on judgment sports other than that they are a lot less subjective than they appear to us novices.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on
Aug 12, 2008 3:30 AM EDT
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Agree
But how they judge something like synchro diving is beyond me, even with Hubble Telescope type eyesight.
What if some of the judges are like Phil – well intentioned by the old peepers aren’t what they used to be?
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by Drew... on
Aug 12, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
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i confess...
i get it. i can see some of what they’re trying to judge and some of the errors even on my TV screen. and i think it must be massively difficult to do. but i still have trouble with the politics of judging…
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
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Drew said peepers. Tee hee hee.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 12, 2008 7:37 PM EDT
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nope, style there
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on
Aug 11, 2008 3:16 PM EDT
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As long as
They don’t replace it with synchronized Sport Aerobics
by Monty. on
Aug 12, 2008 2:29 PM EDT
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If you want goofy
then replay some of Ciolek’s sprints. Even in slo-mo it makes me dizzy.
by Monty. on
Aug 12, 2008 2:25 PM EDT
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I agree swimming has dopers (sadly as do most sports) but,
I am very happy and proud of Phelps and Torres. They both volunteered for the additional testing up to the games and they agreed with the samples being kept for 8 years for future testing (as newer testing is developed). Again I applaud ALL athletes willing to put themeselves through these testing programs to show that there is true talent out there and not everyone dopes.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 11, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
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yes
any athlete worth their medals should be this forthcoming.
swimming is my sport – we don’t have a “culture” of doping that i am aware of, but that said, yes it’s there. the whole sport has jumped up a level as Rowdy has been pointing out in his commentary. when you’re talking hundredths of seconds between glory and ignominy, and you have to train so hard for so long, it’s no surprise that doping cases surface. there is only so much the body can do at that level – it’s so ridiculous that yes, that swimsuit can make the difference.
but for those who don’t have Phelps’ and Thorpe’s genetic gifts, there is a wall and it hurts like hell when you hit it. same with cycling. and we glorify winners and forget the also-rans, even when we’re talking such ridiculously small differences (relative in each sport, of course).
the looks on the faces of the French swimmers when they lost that relay to the US tells such a story – they should all have been basking in the glory of a magnificent finish between two marvelous teams, and yet it was abject disappointment. it’s a shame it has to be that way…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
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The French guys last night were smiling during the podium shots.
I think it was mostly disbelief after the race itself. When they openly say they’re going to “smash” the US and then the US win’s might lead one to be speechless for a bit. Smack talk is always interesting but I love it when someone not favored wins. (That “come from behind” type thing thrills me even when it’s against our athletes. It just pulls at me to see one dig so deep and give it all they have.) So far, even with the the doping busts and discussions, I’ve found these Olympics thrilling and inspiring and I’m really enjoying them. So many athletes from so many countries with so many stories. Good stuff. Go World!!!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 11, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
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That was a pretty amazing comeback
I still can’t figure out how the US guy made up that kind of ground (water?) in the last 5-10 meters…
by Le Comte on
Aug 11, 2008 12:13 PM EDT
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When you hit the wall in swimming-
it’s like dragging a piano. KABOOM!
So it was probably more about the speed of the swimmer he was chasing than his speed..
by Punctured on
Aug 11, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
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yes
you could see it happen – everything is moving but suddenly you feel like you’re standing still. holding onto the water and keeping the feel in that moment is very tough.
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
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i should have said
staying out ahead of the water is tough, because in that moment it’s like the water suddenly gets in front of you. ok, ok – back to cycling :)
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 12:44 PM EDT
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Lezak swam the fastest split ever
to win that but the commentators also pointed out that you could see the French guy tighten up before the finish. In all regards, it was fantasitc to watch.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 11, 2008 1:29 PM EDT
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true
they were smiling later as well they should have been. what i find remarkable is the extremities of reactions on both sides over the length of a hand – it suggests that something is really out of balance somewhere and, to me, sets the stage for doping among those who can’t field the distortions.
i find the “smash” talk a bit silly, really – it’s like the big wind-up between Manadou and Pellegrini in the women’s 400 Free, then the Brits come in and steal the show – loved it! or the touted contest between Kitajima and Hayden in the 100 Breast, and then Oen of Norway comes in to win his country’s first medal ever in swimming – fantastic!
i’m not sure i would say the US was coming from too far behind in that relay, but they weren’t the favourites for sure – that said, that kind of finish is an absolute thrill to watch, and it was made sweeter by the fact that the other teams were swimming brilliantly too.
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
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correction, again...
Hansen not Hayden
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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Strike two...
... one more and you have to start posting about cycling again :P
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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i shall try to
curb my enthusiasm… :) hopefully some of the tri folks in the bunch are appreciating the commentary…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 1:28 PM EDT
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would they know
any stroke beyond the total immersion crawl???
by R Mc on
Aug 11, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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you have a point :)
although it depends how you got into tri and who you train with…
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
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I tried a triathlon--someone swam OVER me
that never happened on the swim team.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 12, 2008 9:29 PM EDT
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+2
That was the best 4×100 freestyle relay I’ve ever seen. Congrats USA, fantastic!
by Bruce Suomi on
Aug 11, 2008 12:26 PM EDT
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and
the Aussie, Sullivan, went almost unnoticed (in North America, at least) in setting a world record time for his lead-off split – way hard to do from a stationary start (vs. in motion on legs 2-4). as the final heat of one of the most thrilling events in swimming, it simply rocked!
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 10:44 PM EDT
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not bad for a 50m specialist...
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on
Aug 12, 2008 8:43 AM EDT
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exactly what i said
not bad for a 50m specialist to break a world record for a 100m race…
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on
Aug 12, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
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got it - good point
my apologies – i was between espressos again and misread your post.
by nickel17 on
Aug 12, 2008 6:18 PM EDT
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basically she’s going to be in an “undisclosed location” in Zaragosa as of Monday. Recovering from her “strong anxiety attack”. Uh huh, sure you are.
by Fred Marx on
Aug 11, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
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yup
not impressed.
I’m considering throwing up a shingle for a “How Not to Complete Embarrass Yourself After You’ve Been Caught” practice.
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 1:29 AM EDT
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and if I do that
my first hire will obviously have to be a proofreader.
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 8:39 AM EDT
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Yeah well
Then there’s this beauty. She looks like my cousin Gary.
Obviously hottitude and gold don’t go together. Sorry ladies.
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
by CannonDowell on
Aug 11, 2008 1:40 AM EDT
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That's a lot of bicep...
But ya know, except for more fattitude, I look more like her than like the PEZ eye-candy girls. (Or at least, I do when I’ve been hitting the gym for tech diving.) And it’s all natural.
Besides, do you really think any of the women are still using androgens? That’s so East Germany 1970’s, and so detectable.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 11, 2008 1:59 AM EDT
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Are you kidding me?
Cooke did an amazing and beautiful ride and has gold…something you will never know Cannon….geesh. I don’t find her ugly at all. She looks stunning with the gold around her neck!
by steph- on
Aug 11, 2008 8:44 AM EDT
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Cooke's
views on drug takers are uncompromising. She will not share a room with anyone who injects vitamin supplements, let alone anything stronger.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/aug/15/athensolympics2004.cycling
by lucybears on
Aug 11, 2008 10:12 AM EDT
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Yeah
I was actually kidding. Just trying to deflect MORE doping talk. But now that you have gotten all personal Steph, I would like you to know that i am leaving for vacation this morning and hope you have a great week.
And on another note, I will once again be vying for the coveted “Greatest Dad” award given out to me by my biggest critics and fans: my kids.
Golden
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
by CannonDowell on
Aug 11, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
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Well... it may get worse...
... this article in Sports Illustrated is saying that WADA will be making recommendations to the IOC in November as to whether to suspend or eliminate certain sports from future Olympic competitions. What I didn’t know was that, according to the article…
The entire 11-member Bulgarian weightlifting team was barred from the Beijing Olympics after testing positive for steroids, and 11 of Greece’s 15 Olympic lifters also were excluded after failing pre-games controls.
And there were large swaths of Russian female track and field athletes that have been provisionally banned from competition because (god help me)...
You can only walk around for so long with someone else’s urine in your body. * * * Suspicion was soon directed at immigration authorities in Russia; the theory was that someone in the visa office was tipping off the athletes to alert them when the testers were coming.
And now, in addition to those bits, this news just broke too…
Greek Olympic sprinter Tassos Gousis has failed a doping test, state television reported on Friday.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 2:18 AM EDT
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dear god, they catheterize them and put someone else's urine in their bladders?
Not only that, 5 different people???? How’s that for a way to get an STD… or bladder infection…
OK, new rules for OOC testing. You pee until empty, drink a couple of cups of water, and wait until YOUR KIDNEYS produce a sample.
(I mean, I assume they don’t inject the urine??? Ghaaak. Either way, Ghaaak. Do they do the MEN that way too? Ghaaaaaaaaak.)
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 11, 2008 11:23 AM EDT
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REAL FRIGGING WARM URINE FROM ANOTHER PERSON
in your bladder, with their PCR-traceable shed cells / DNA (and viruses) all floating around in it? (Again Ghaaaak…and so stupid.)
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 11, 2008 11:25 AM EDT
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you really hate us,
don’t you?
Me, I was perfectly content to go through life without imagining any of that, but now . . .
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 11:37 AM EDT
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If you can't imagine it, you don't think to design the tests to prevent it.
And anyway, at least I know that at least two of us are feeling queasy. Misery and company, Sui, misery and company.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 11, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
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Thankfully
it’s not my job (nor Sui’s) to design the tests. But, damn, I think that thought is going to ruin my day now. Yuck…
by Le Comte on
Aug 11, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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There was a show on ESPN in the US called "Playmakers"...
... that was about a faux professional American Football team that actually had a plot line devoted to someone, a male, going through the process of having urine injected to get past a test that he was tipped off was coming (the character was a cocaine addict). It was an absolutely fantastic show and it got canceled after the first season because the NFL threatened all manner of sanctions against ESPN.
Netflix that shit… you won’t be disappointed for an instant. Oh, and the theme is great gym music if very short.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 1:09 PM EDT
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and don;t forget the Chinese women swimmers
that were not allowed to compete after failing their drug tests.
by steph- on
Aug 11, 2008 8:46 AM EDT
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or 12 year old Gymnasts
What’s up with that? I swear some of those girls looked younger than my daughter (12). But how do you prove age if the government is providing Passports and the government is sponsoring the “cheating”.
Maybe we need to start getting X-Rays of growth plates to determine age.
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
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i so agree with this
i find it quite disturbing to watch. it’s a bit like watching children’s beauty pageants, almost surreal.
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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Overwork their muscles at that age, and selectively underfeed them, and you can halt the bone growth
Pretty scary. Repercussions later in life. Terrible thing to do to anyone. But you get built up muscle with little to lift, and they fly like birds. I no longer follow the sport because it does, basically, demand that you commit, at a tender age, to a probably miserable middle age and old age. Cycling’s innocent by comparison.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 11, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
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i see a report in tv portuguese
of a youth chinese academy , and the the boys, with 7 years old, doing flexibility and crying a lot. The trainers push them into maximum and the children suffring every day.
by semprenaroda on
Aug 11, 2008 11:54 AM EDT
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You should see interviews with Jackie Chan...
... about what life was like as a child performer in the Peking Opera.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 1:11 PM EDT
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Bela Karoly
Had something to say last night during the coverage.. yes I admit I was watching it. I’m half laid up with sciatica.. damn that hurts. This had best not interfere with my plans to shoot The Tour Of Utah this week… grumble.. grumble..
by Fred Marx on
Aug 11, 2008 7:27 PM EDT
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one more time
the tv portuguese talk about cycling because of doping…what a bad image.
PS:Crashdan check the email please :)
by semprenaroda on
Aug 11, 2008 10:03 AM EDT
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I'm gettin' there... I'm gettin' there!!! :)
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 10:06 AM EDT
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Amy Winehouse?
"I won! I won! I don't have to go to school anymore." -- Eddy Merckx, after winning his first bike race
by ELVISGOAT on
Aug 11, 2008 10:26 AM EDT
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My least favorite sport
is female gymnastics
I can’t stop thinking that most of tem have been training since near infancy in strange contortion schools.
A true form of child abuse.
by cyclingchallenge on
Aug 11, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
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The Kerri Strug thing still creeps me out.
Playing in pain is one thing. She was injured.
I know there wasn’t a lot of time to have it checked and it was great theater, but I can watch it.
by Punctured on
Aug 11, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
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3 years old
NBC did a spot last night on one of the Chinese Gymnastics Academies. They start out at 3 years old. Unbelievable.
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
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I went to one of those gymnastics
shows when I was in Shanghai, and walked away feeling like I’d just supported something really really wrong.
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 12:26 PM EDT
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YOu know it's funny...
... watching the gymnastics coverage last night, I didn’t find the actual gymnastics performance offensive… it was more the coverage of “how do these teenage girls act at home when they’re not performing” that turned my stomach.
Really… watching a teenage girl shop in the 21st century, at least as it was portrayed in that coverage, is why the terrorists hate us.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 1:15 PM EDT
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Has anyone heard the rumor about Cancellara?
that his A sample tested positive in the road race?
by EuroPeloton on
Aug 11, 2008 1:32 PM EDT
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that would be the death blow
for my cycling fandom.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
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source?
Have a really hard time wrapping my head around that one.
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 1:39 PM EDT
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saw it in a forum, so whop knows if it's accurate
http://www.dailypelotonforums.com/main/index.php?showtopic=7668&st=0
Sorry if I freaked everyone out
by EuroPeloton on
Aug 11, 2008 2:34 PM EDT
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gah, no, that thingy is just a rumor
i’m guessing that the spanish woman positive got twisted in the rumor mill into an elite dude, probably sanchez. and voilà, out popped a rumor.
i have my doubts that they’ve even managed to test the road race samples yet. probably too soon for any news just yet. the spanish positive is from 31 july, which was quite some time ago. hopefully, there won’t be any news, of course.
by gavia on
Aug 11, 2008 2:41 PM EDT
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some of the DOF folks love to spread rumors about European riders
especially riders that beat their own favorite riders. The ugly side of fans.
by lyne on
Aug 11, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
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they're confused...
there’s a recent article regarding 1996 olympic road race winner pascal richard
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on
Aug 11, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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You did freak me out a little!
But it looks like it was Moreno all along. There’s no implication there’s another one is there?
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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hmmm, not finding anything so far...
just this overview from VeloNews that mentions testing Cancellara and Tyler Hamilton’s shady win in ‘04.
in the Olympics NON-Disappointment category, they noticed!
A strong performance has made Australian cyclist Cadel Evans more confident about starting Wednesday’s individual time trial.Evans finished 15th in the road race, 22 seconds behind Spanish winner Samuel Sanchez.
More importantly, he gave his injured knee a thorough workout when he drove an attack on the last lap of the race.
Evans went to the front of the lead group as it went up the 11km climb, forcing the pace and putting several contenders out of medal contention.
He was working for Rogers, who eventually finished sixth.
courtesy VeloNews
by nickel17 on
Aug 11, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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it looks like, maybe
somebody mistakenly mixed the two unrelated threads of that article together… hopefully.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 2:12 PM EDT
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Designer urine?
I suppose it was only a matter of time before those words appeared here.
Nice to see this woman had an anxiety attack over her cheating. That has to be a first in cycling. At least the idea that it’s not OK may be sinking in. Or that you might not get away with it.
Speaking of anxiety attacks, I’m going to ignore this cancellara stuff for now…
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 1:49 PM EDT
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Ignore the Cancellera stuff
The European press would be all over that rumor if it were true…the fact that there is nothing out there means there is NOTHING right now.
Now…L’Equipe does have a story confirming that Armstrong’s 1999 samples do test positive for EPO.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/DOPAGE_ARMSTRONG_2.html
by steph- on
Aug 11, 2008 2:28 PM EDT
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Fab-ian
I dunno how he could even get started with doping. Obviously the entire chain of command, starting with Rasmus Damsgaard, could all be corrupt. But that doesn’t smell right. Only way is he could have popped something on his way to Beijing. But I mean, how stupid would he have to be? No way am I believing this until I see it reported.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 2:32 PM EDT
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IGNORE IT!
There is NOTHING anywhere on the internet to suggest that an elite male rider has tested positive at the Olympics as of now. NOTHING. Trust me when I say, I’m watching just about all the obvious places, and some much less obvious.
Sorry to yell, but this kind of thing irks me.
by gavia on
Aug 11, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
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I don't bother looking to "other" sources for cycling news...
If Gavia says “Ignore it”...I’m ignoring it.
by itswells on
Aug 11, 2008 3:44 PM EDT
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Designer Urine...
... I prefer mine in Plaid or Seersucker.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 3:04 PM EDT
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Bummer
Way, way, way off-topic, but I see Jens Voigt will not be riding in the Worlds this year.
Personally, I live in fear of the day he retires…
by Le Comte on
Aug 11, 2008 2:52 PM EDT
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I know! Me too!
The peloton without Jens! would be a sadder place :-(
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 4:55 PM EDT
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Funny
how the article says Jens can’t go because he’s had a long season. Not a long season, a long one. Like anything less would not deter him.
My first thought was he didn’t want to go because there were only two race days.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
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I can't help but hear Jens! saying that in my head...
....’a looooong season’. I so must watch Overcoming again.
by Albertina on
Aug 11, 2008 5:13 PM EDT
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Ok , so here's some conspiracy theory
Jens! likely won’t be the protected rider for Germany. So if I were an older rider who has done my duty to my country in countless races before in my career, maybe I use a convenient (and true) excuse if I don’t much like the captain I would be working for?
Without real motivation (ambition, duty to employer, loyalty to teammate etc.) I doubt he can pull the “tell the body to shut up”-trick anyway.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on
Aug 12, 2008 3:38 AM EDT
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I'll back that
I wouldn’t want to work for Schumacher either.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by Drew... on
Aug 12, 2008 12:41 PM EDT
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Cycling and embarrassment, bed partners
I share Pat McQuaid’s disgust that the first doping positive of the Olympics was in cycling. It figures the stupid twat couldn’t even keep her composure but instead had a nervous breakdown knowing she was going to get busted. Lifetime bans need to be implemented now, they need to stop dicking around with these destructive cheats.
by sminer on
Aug 11, 2008 3:51 PM EDT
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It's inly the first
Because about 12 people were banned before they arrived.
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 4:12 PM EDT
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GAH!
Headline story at CNN.com
Athlete says sports steroids changed him from woman to man
by rocketpress on
Aug 11, 2008 4:38 PM EDT
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Yeah... just saw that myself...
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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You should try to find PBS' "Doping for Gold"
somewhere. It’s about Kreiger (and teammates). Really really sad.
by Sui Juris on
Aug 11, 2008 4:58 PM EDT
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The PBS special is one to watch for sure.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Aug 11, 2008 5:19 PM EDT
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there was a fiction story in the New Yorker a couple of months back...
very well done. Somewhat on the topic. Anyone see it, and remember the title or date? I read it at the gym, so it could be older than that.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 12, 2008 9:42 PM EDT
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all I have to say is
it takes balls to step forward and tell a story like that.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 4:58 PM EDT
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http://www.instantrimshot.com
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:18 PM EDT
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one quote
Sports physician Willi Heepe said gene therapy means the body will basically dope itself.
If that happens, “the human monster will be a reality,” he told CNN.
Great. That’s all we need. Human monsters. I’m sticking to wheat germ.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 5:09 PM EDT
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who goes first?
Not me. But unfortunately, I’m sure there’s already a line.
If people are willing to inject someone else’s urine into their bladder to cheat, or if a father is willing to dope his son, then some nut will be willing to risk totally freaky unknowable side effects.
I can’t wait to see the UCI/WADA regulations on gene doping:
NO MUTANTS!
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
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I work with a dude named Xavier...
... perhaps we should kneecap him and call him Professor.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 5:19 PM EDT
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It scares me a little
but I like how you think.
by rocketpress on
Aug 11, 2008 5:24 PM EDT
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i'm on the tenure track
as a Video Professor, but I’m not named Xavier, and I have a full head of hair.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
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Please? Buy my product?
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 6:03 PM EDT
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Kneecapping is fine but how do you make a guy bald?
(not shaved, mind you)
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on
Aug 12, 2008 3:41 AM EDT
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Age gap
I’m completely repulsed by the idea of freaky unknowable side effects… now. But I’m pretty sure you could have talked me and most of my high school class into this risk, back in the day, solely on the promise of freaky unknowable side effects.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
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Do you think that's enough Gene Therapy?
Naaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh… go for broke.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 6:43 PM EDT
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This is simple really
Ban the athletes with horns and scales.
Duh.
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass... and I'm all out of bubblegum."
by Drew... on
Aug 12, 2008 12:42 PM EDT
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the tough thing, of course, is that we're all mutants
We all have some new mutations, and some inherited ones. In most cases, they don’t affect our sports skills, so no-one cares. But things are tough for people caught out because the olympics can’t decide if they are totally female, totally male, or what. I mean, if you’re pretty much female, and you didn’t do anything to dope, and your genes are the ones nature gave you, should someone be tossing you off the competition list because you have an active gene that should only be active in guys?
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 12, 2008 9:46 PM EDT
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Thin line
With Gene Therapy you have the potential to cure a number of illnesses, such as Cystic Fibrosis. Promising results are being reported.
As the state of the art advances it will only be a matter of time before GT moves from “diseases” to things like baldness. I’m sure an argument can be made that an increased hematocrit has physiological benefits (Anemia).
What defines you? Are you what you are at birth? Can you remake yourself? And if you can, should someone be allowed to tell you that you can’t?
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 6:39 PM EDT
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It's just going to suck when it gets to the point that...
... we won’t be able to know whether GT means Gene Therapy or Grand Tour.
I know, it said "als" instead of "ist"... don't give me any crap...
by crashdan on
Aug 11, 2008 6:44 PM EDT
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I disagree
Gene Therapy is a good thing. But, what you do with it, well, that can be either good or bad.
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
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some serious life questions that you pose there
“What defines you? Are you what you are at birth? Can you remake yourself? And if you can, should someone be allowed to tell you that you can’t?
nature or nurture with a Gene Therapy twist
by lyne on
Aug 11, 2008 6:50 PM EDT
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Yikes
Can I go home now?
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 6:52 PM EDT
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Sorry
Sitting in an office all day typing verilog and running clock domain crossing checks makes my brain hurt. I need to exercise the non-engineer side on occasion. :)
by johnw on
Aug 11, 2008 7:07 PM EDT
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verilog is enough to make your brain blow up
by lyne on
Aug 11, 2008 7:10 PM EDT
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Alert Alert Warning Warning...
John and Lyne are devolved into geek speek… Lyne step away from what ever it is and get on the plane girl!
by Fred Marx on
Aug 11, 2008 7:35 PM EDT
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do you realize how much head hunter spam
you will bring raining down on yourself by mentioning verilog… oops.
by KevinK on
Aug 11, 2008 7:12 PM EDT
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Wait
this has to do with cannibals?
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 11, 2008 7:20 PM EDT
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Boy
if that doesn’t get us another 200 hits off google. Wait, I don’t mean hits…
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Aug 12, 2008 11:41 AM EDT
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Oh, the Basso defense
You were just thinking about it . . .
by Sui Juris on
Aug 12, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
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I'm pretty sure you can't generally make that argument
Look at how regulated the O2 carrying capacity is. Go up to altitude, you start to make red cells. Come down, and they step back down again. Sure, any waste of energy should be slowly selected against (most of our ancestors were hungry most of the time, or starving periodically, and wasteful use of energy was a big evolutionary no-no.) However, you can also argue that a higher hematocrit would mean a) catching more food b) getting less exhausted and less prone to accidents and disease and c) outrunning the other guy, when being chased by the wolves / bears / bad guys. So with all the evolutionary advantage lined up on the side of ever-increasing hematocrit, how come we’re not all awash in O2? I don’t know if the answer is “death from sludge in your veins” or “damage from free radicals” but something in our biology clearly does NOT like us to have much more O2 carrying capacity than what we actually have.
Also, to be effective in an evolutionary sense, this “negatives of having a high hematocrit” would have to cut in before or during the peak reproductive years. (Stuff that kills you after you have bred is not really selected against, except insofar as your absence makes your kids less likely to survive.) Anyway, I don’t know what the payback is, but there pretty much has to be one.
Either that, or human evolution is 99% about sitting and (not quite) starving, and only 1% about catching food or catching hell.
by JFS_PGH on
Aug 12, 2008 9:57 PM EDT
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