Angliru Post-Race Thread
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 13, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
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My legs still hurt. And I'm in pajamas. Great stage today, even if the winner wasn't a huge surprise.
Here are today's stage results and the current general classification.
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Whoops
wasn’t sure you were here. Things moving awfully fast today.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris Fontecchio on Sep 13, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Provisional Results:
1 Alberto Contador (Spa) Astana
2 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d’Epargne
3 Joaquím Rodríguez (Spa) Caisse d’Epargne
4 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Astana
5 Carlos Sastre (Spa) CSC-Saxo Bank
6 Ezequiel Mosquera (Spa) Xacobeo Galicia
Gesink in 6th I think
He was missed coming in when they were replaying Contador crossing the line . . . finished at 1:56 down (Mosquera was another 22s back)
gotta feed the boys
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Every stage should
have 20% grades!
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
no doubt
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Sep 13, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Great stage
Still wondering what Igor Anton could have done.
Very sad for him
yeah...
…I bet it’ll be a while before we see the Angliru in the Vuelta again…
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Half of them were riders
which makes me extra mad. If they were all a bunch of fat drunkards, I would expect them to act stupid, but how can you ride up there and be drunk? Inconceivable…
I reckon that anyone who was drunk had to be a cyclist
The only other way up there was a very long, very sobering, walk.
oh, here you will be fined if you ride your bike drunk,
not as bad as driving a car drunk, but here you are not allowed to drive/ride anything if you are under the influence………
Fined for being drunk on a bike in Finland?
I guess that means no one rides bikes in Finland? ;)
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
My point was not that it is impossible to ride drunk
Riding a bike drunk is easy, but that is on some townie bike. Or at the beach or on vacation… But riding up a climb like that while drunk? Or even worse, riding down after getting drunk?
Ask these guys
http://drunkcyclist.com/wordpress/
That’s where I bought the jersey in my profile picture that says “Drunk Cyclist” on it.
Same blood alcohol limit as for cars?
Here we also have public intoxication laws, so you can get in trouble for just existing in a very drunken state. I think it would also be illegal to bike in the street…but we are actually allowed here, in residential neighborhoods, to bike slowly on the sidewalks, and I assume it is legal to do that even while drunk…in the same way that one can do it without proper lights and reflectors. Not saying it is wise, but so far as I know, it is legal.
Wonder if Basso
will have a chance to ride the Tour. And how will he do against Contador.
no chance
LIQ aren’t even trying as it looks.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
I mean that purely in terms of riding and race attitude
and to a smaller degree, physical resemblance.
The both have that natural forward lean, and greyhound-y build. Basso’s thicker in the belly, and doesn’t have as much of that frog-like lateral looseness in the hips that Contador does, when he relaxes as he crosses the line.
That’s what I notice as he does his gun-shot—not the shot itself, but that he looks like a frog on a dissecting tray, limbs out to all sides.
Don't think
we could expect Basso to be in top form for his first year. But it will be interesting to see what happens in his second year back.
Great racing
Lot’s of attacks and comebacks. Percentages like that usually make for fair but uneventful racing, but not today.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
how hard it must be
for the riders still coming up with tons of likely drunk people walking down the road
wonder if they could limit the people they allow up there...
…either that or more cops – it was hilarious watching those burly dudes in yellow trying to clear a path…all the while keeping up with Contador!
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
At least they were trying
Say what you will about the tenets of national socialism, but at least it’s an ethos
I like the other ones better...
…how about “he was kinda funny looking”
by plinytheelder on Sep 14, 2008 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
AC looks like a very skinny Arnold S, weird but I see a likeness
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
If Bert wins the Vuelta
do the sunglasses get a gold band on top to go with the yellow and pink arms?
excellent spanish by the sounds of it
dude sounds like he was born and raised in Madrid
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
According to his website
he is fluent in 6 languages (Dutch, English, Spanish, French, Italian, German)
I can't believe he doesn't speak
at least a little Kazakh by now. Also, according to his bio, he has a BA in marketing.
you mean russia?
I think they speak Russia in Kaz?
by Bruce Suomi on Sep 13, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the former Soviet union
Most native kasakhs were probably moved to Siberia long ago.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
kazakh and Russian for ethnic Kazakhs (majority), only Russian for ethnic Russians
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
according to wikipedia (which is reliable at least 5% of the time)
Kazakh is listed as the official state language, and Russian is listed as a second language
Yeah but according tot he Irish constitution, English is my second language.
Though some of you probably figured it must be the way I abuse it.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
well, here we
(unfortunately, no offens Jens) speak Swedish and Finnish, since they are our main languages. But as you can imagine, no one likes Swedish language……. ;D
Maybe you can get some pointers
from our american friends here on how to shed the last remnants of your colonial past. It’s ok to drop the swedish language by now. We won’t invade and burn down your farms and villages (that’s like sooo 18:th century). We may however retaliate by sending hordes of drunken, vomiting teenagers over on Silja Line but let’s face it, we’re going to do that anyway.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
don't forget BS, he speaks it often
Like “I had no idea Lance was coming back……”
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
OK in my book
he speaks 1 foreign language. He’s Dutch, and Dutch is basically low German, so that one doesn’t count. All Dutch learn English from the age of 2 or something so that doesn’t count. That leaves Italian, Spanish and French. Those 3 are so close to each other that they’re basically the same language. So pick one of those 3…and that’s his foreign language. I don’t know why I’m so surly about this, as a counter-argument his Spanish is indeed excellent.
by plinytheelder on Sep 14, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Rebellin in the top 10
How freaking impressive is that?
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
not impressive enough, I chose him
as my shock in the top 5!!!!
Davide Rebellin
9th overall, 11th on the stage. Apparently he wants to snag a top-10 Gc
And Bettini came to climb today too. Not to mention Valverde and Cunego.
Who knew that Angliru was for LBL riders?
I'm with you...
scanning the results a big “umm, wow” came to my head.
god damn the dopers, they me me skeptical of everyones good day…
Bettini too in the top 20 is a little surprising for a climbing day like this.
hear you loud and clear,
I don’t trust anything, especially the teams without an AD-program.
Definetly raised my eyebrowns, since when has Bettini survived 4 cat1 or hc climbs? Or Rebellin?
Color me cynical but I don’t know what to think of it…
If their teams had an AD-program, I wouldn’t have any problem, but………
+1
"I won! I won! I don't have to go to school anymore." -- Eddy Merckx, after winning his first bike race
Of all the people who shouldn't have to dope, despite advancing age,
to keep riding…Bettini’s high on the list
wonder what will happen tomorrow...
…if I remember right there are 2 cat 1 climbs! Could be interesting…
Can't be breakaways because it'd win,
short from stage what I remember
Aside from Bert
I was the most impressed by Levi. Bring on the podium!
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
agreed...
…did exactly what he had to with Sastre, both for himself and for the team
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
he might even win, remember the last TT..
by Bruce Suomi on Sep 13, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Too short to gain
major time on Alberto. And there is an uphill.
Definitely down to Bert and Levi
barring injury of course. My guess though is that Bert can hold a minute on Levi on a shortish cat 1 TT.
Why would
Bruneel want Armstrong back when Contador is money in the bank. He is about to win his third GT in just over a year. Seems like Armstrong can only complicate things.
I can't remember Lance
winning the Giro or Vuelta
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
not sure
was 4th in Vuelta once
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't say no I guess
But Bruyneel needs to give serious amounts of love to Bert for next year. lance is a one year fling; Bert is forever.
I agree
Bert is the team’s future, plus he’s shown to be loyal following johan to Astana and sticking with the team when they didn’t get a TDF invite. It would be stupid to mess up that relationship for one year with a questionable Lance comeback.
yes his loyalty is commendable
and rewarded with a Giro and Vuelta
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
if they both sign, and Cont. is better than LA in the early races...
…it would be nice to see Lance say “I’m going to work for Alberto.”
Then again Lance isn’t really in any of the early races is he.
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
The Dauphné will be the warm up for the tour for Lance
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If I were Bruneel
I would tell Armstrong that he can come back. But he has to be Contador’s domestique until the last 2 kilometers.
Nicholas Roche
only 4’44" down.
That boy could have a future.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
agreed...
…the Spanish commentators were commending him, “very nice Vuelta for him” they said.
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty good Vuelta for the french
all things considered
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
pretty good Vuelta for the french
Ahem! He was only French briefly! He’s Irish now.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
hehehe yep
but born in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, France
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He did actually ride for France, I think, like Dan Martin rode for the UK.
Doesn’t matter to me too much. I’m happy for the French to even claim Sam Beckett as one of their writers.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Belgian?!? Are you on drugs? There’s NO famous Belgians. Even Jacques Brel was French. As was Hergé.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
I thought Poirot was British/French/Italian/Swiss/Russian
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Eddie Merckx ?
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Who he?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Second best rider of the seventies
always lost to Lambert
OK referring to Brel as anything other than God is fightin’ words, name your time and place!
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t say he wasn’t a deity. I said he was a French deity.
For the record, I have a full set of his CDs. I kinda like the guy.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
WHAT!!?? what do you think he means by the “plat pays qui est le mien”…Normandy?
by plinytheelder on Sep 13, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Where are my Giro rider analysis experts?
Yea that Contador, what a wheelsucker he is.
Some of you haters (and that’s fine if you don’t like a rider) but you still need a reality check, you can’t ride the way he did today if you haven’t prepared.
Why call people haters?
People can voice opinions on riders without hating them. We are not six-year-olds.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
you can’t ride the way he did today if you haven’t prepared
How do you mean ‘prepared’?
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
meaning probably
knowing that you were going to race the race, check out the mountains before, have a training camp etc.
That’s what I think is prepared.
And I agree with Jens, I don’t agree with the haters thing, if I have a different opinion about something or someone, I’m not hating that one.:)
by Bruce Suomi on Sep 13, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
haters: from the urban dictionary
<blockquotehater
A person that simply cannot be happy for another person’s success. So rather than be happy they make a point of exposing a flaw in that person.
this site is full of haters.
I hate you for saying that! This place is full of leurve. Can’t you feel it washing over you? C’mon, feel the love!
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
You are entitled to your opinion of course
but I would argue that the opposite is true. I think you will have a hard time finding a forum where people have more respect for all riders. Your memory of the Giro-threads may be better than mine but I simply cannot recall any widespread disrespect of AC’s victory.
You have to respect the fact that others may have different favourites than you.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
not at this forum
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Would you expand on that?
I simply don’t see it.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
people on this forum did not diss contador for his giro victory....
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
The last time we dissed
was probably the last time Rasmussen won a TT.
Right--"to hate on" and "hater" are slang with distinct meanings...
that imply no actual hatred. Just an unwillingness to give someone due respect, maybe mingled with jealousy or suspicion. So we in fact do often “hate on” people (sometimes for good reason, sometimes borne out by later doping exposes). We don’t have a “no hating” policy. Hating is part of commentary. Hatred, on the other hand, might be frowned upon. Unless it’s directed at Ricardo R and his pet vial of EPO.
But cop to what you’re doing. You can’t throw a fit for being called a “hater” (in the slang sense) if you (for example) consitently use “wheel suck” for certain riders (Cadel, Levi), and “mark” for other riders, when those riders are using the exact same strategy.
Cadel and Levi (and many other riders) do sometimes wheel suck in the pejorative sense (i.e. get a free ride behind someone, for an extended period, on a flat or downhill when they have no team-mate up the road).
But if they have a teammate up the road, or if they are going up a 15+ percent grade, and they’re on someone’s wheel, it’d make sense to EITHER use another word, OR point out that you’re not using the term “wheel sucking” pejoratively. OR get OK with the fact that you sometimes enjoy “hating on” Levi. Not hating him, just hating on him.
hear you too loud and clear!
and that’s the beauty of the cafe, we can agree to disagree, without getting insulting etc.,
argue in a civil manner, throw jokes agaist each others, and yet we all enjoy the passion of cycling.
+3
this piece in particular:
You can’t throw a fit for being called a "hater" (in the slang sense) if you (for example) consistently use "wheel suck" for certain riders (Cadel, Levi), and "mark" for other riders, when those riders are using the exact same strategy.
and for consistency's sake...
i don’t think Contador has ever been a target here of “hating”. he may have been criticized for a different style in the Giro than people expect, but that’s not the same as certain riders who are consistently dissed whatever they do…
it seems useful to make a distinction between critiquing and hating or hating on – to me, one is opinion based on observation with available methods and the other is about overall dislike for whatever reason regardless of how the rider performs…
Sucking etiquette
I don’t remember anyone tagging Bert as a wheelsucker. I think we gave him a pass for the Giro due to the late invite and the CERA triplets.
To be a true wheelsucker, one must never attack. Those we tag as wheelsuckers here have attacked in races like the Tour of Germany, but do not attack in the grand tours.
DNS / DNF Count
Amazing, only 3 I think.
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
agreed, I thought many more would've give up...
nice to be wrong though!
by Bruce Suomi on Sep 13, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
you only get the T Shirt
if you finish
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I climbed the Angliru and all I got was this lousy t-shirt?
Bork, bork, bork!
by TheFigurehead on Sep 13, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Paris-Bruxelles much worse
by the looks of it, broken wrists, collarbones, tailbones, and maybe a hip or pelvis. Including some very nice riders, and also [[COMMENT_CHILDREN_TOKEN]]/, who was on the ground waving his legs instead of his arms. [Note classic example of hating on [[COMMENT_CHILDREN_TOKEN]]/ even when the guy is hurt, so bad of me. I’ll miss him, actually, if he’s not healed up by spring.]
anyone else trying to watch Paris-Bruxelles on c.tv?
I started a thread for the supposed “as live” coverage – but I can’t actually get anything yet. please, no spoilers :-)
Sastre quote
I have to recover and think about what lies ahead, but there’s still a week left. There are still some opportunities, but Astana did a great job today and they have the Vuelta much clearer now," Sastre said. "I didn’t have the best sensations. It’s a tough climb, perhaps better for the media than the racers. I held on as long as I could, but when you’re not as strong as the others, you have to go at your own pace. In the end, it felt like it was eternal."
from Velonews
that is a great sastre quote
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 13, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Gonzalez Linares of as.com
…has asked Valverde to leave the Vuelta to prep for worlds….very interesting!
http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo/ciclismo-valverde-objetivo-varese/dasclm/20080913dasdaicic_5/Tes
i had to step out...
for my morning ride, so thanks everyone for the great commentary :)
bravo, Valverde!! what a great comeback from Thursday and for a classics guy, too, on this stage. great to see Damiano in the top ten.
and as for the less noticed but still going strong, Nicolas Roche continues to impress, as does Cornu – it’s a promising new generation… i guess it’s too much to ask for Mr. Van A to remain in the points jersey after tomorrow, but maybe he could bring it back later in the week…
glad that Chav is still holding on at 17th in the GC… :)
memory loss
Wow, I followed the Giro here a good bit, and heard tons of praise for Ricco’s “attacking” style of riding, and a good deal of remarks about Contador sucking wheel.
In my earlier comment I said it was fine to have your own feelings for or against a rider, but my point was that those that referred to Contador as a wheelsucker during the Giro were not stating an opinion about this rider, but an ignorant and unfair analysis of him. Most understood that with the late invite Alberto was unprepared and unsure of his fitness and was either wise or unable to ride any other way than he did. The loud and ignorant few that maybe never saw Contador’s normally agressive riding style before the Giro just simply needed to be outed and corrected. And I never implied that they weren’t free to go about disliking him.
Ignorant comment as opposed to opinion…
“I can’t stand Boonen because he sits in during the whole race wheelsucking and then sprints to victory”…
“I can’t stand Boonen because he looks like a big dumb lugnut when he celebrates before crossing the line allowing another sprinter like say Cavendish who has rediculous topspeed in the closing meters to slip underneath him for victory”
Of all the things Boonen has done or might do...
Letting Cav under his elbow is pretty much going to be the high point for me, actually [grin]. You can’t pay for moments like that.
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