Will the 2009 Giro Be Blotted Out By The Sun?
by Chris... on Sep 16, 2008 7:19 PM EDT
in News
56 comments
This is pretty o/t, but it's occurred to me that the Giro d'Italia is in a pretty bad position right now. Despite the Giro's penchant for glorious racing and the usual sumptuous feast of a course in recent years, I fear the Great Yellow Circle* is about to devour much of the sport next year, and leave the Giro with a vastly watered down field of Classics guys and B-list stage racers.
[* Le Tour]
Can you name a single serious grand tour rider who you'd expect to see lining up for the 2009 Giro? Yes: Ivan Basso. That might be about it. Recall, this year's battle pitted Alberto Contador against Riccardo Ricco. The former was a fluke inclusion, perhaps never to be repeated; the latter is busting rocks on a chain gang til 2010. The CSF boys are in disgrace. Gibo Simoni isn't walking through that door anytime soon. And other recent champions Danilo DiLuca and Damiano Cunego have proven themselves to be marginal grand tour threats (albeit one-day marvels).
Italian cycling doesn't have a ready crop of three-week riders on line right now. I'm not savvy enough on the prospects of the next generation, so maybe there's a new, new Pantani or what have you just around the corner. We do know about guys like Gabriele Bosisio and Vincenzo Nibali, showing some real promise, but they're a ways off still. Closer to the top is Franco Pellizotti -- in fact, he may be the answer to this riddle. But one Tour de Suisse win fourth in the Giro isn't quite hard evidence.
As for foreign riders, a few guys like Jurgen Vanden Brouck might come back for a chance at a win. It's still a good race for young grand tour hopefuls, like Thomas Dekker or Robert Gesink, who could use some seasoning on the three-week circuit. Or maybe Columbia will launch its good-not-great GC guys like Lovkvist or Mick Rogers at the Giro. But with Lance purportedly back in the mix, the Tour will be a humongous draw for every rider on the planet next year, and even if the competition might leave B-listers everyone gasping for air, the crush of world media will still force DSs to send all their best guys to France. A reinvigorated Tour will inevitably suck more air out of the Giro than the Vuelta, both because it comes afterwards (and makes the Giro a training risk) and because the Vuelta has so much homegrown stage-racing talent that the show will go on.
If you can think of major GC attractions who can be expected at the Giro next year, I'm all ears. Also, if Lance skips the Tour for the Giro, you can scotch this entire post. But I'll believe that when I see it.
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Factor in the rumored reshuffle of the GT schedule and it gets really weird. To answer the original question, I cannot put any of the top names in Italy next spring.
by Fred Marx on Sep 16, 2008 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh
reshuffle rumors? Refresh my memory please…?
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 16, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vuelta in April
I think that was the small buzz about reshuffling.
Menchov? Maybe Menchov will go there in training for the Tour and give Basso a run for his money. Vuelta and Giro winner would create a little buzz.
Lessee…. I wouldn’t be opposed to Rock Racing at the Giro. They could have a daily fashion show. Hamilton, Botero – has-beens or contenders?
Any team that doesn’t get the Tour invite will be / should be bucking for the giro. For some reason I’m thinking Barloworld is a little tenuous in which case Soler might do well (better than this year).
Pelizzoti, Brus, Nibali, DiLuca, Visconti, Bossissio, Basso – the Italians will still have fun, but definitely not the crazy big firepower of the Tour next year. We’ll still enjoy because we should all be in Italy and it’s May and we’re all jonesin for a GT by then. But I think you’re right, competing with the Tour next year is going to be hard, with or without Lance.
by kimchi on Sep 16, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes- lets hear the rumor!!!
If there are no changes in the Grand Tour schedule, at least for next year I see the Giro increasingly being hemmed in by the Big Yellow Circle. With the Ardennes and Paris-Roubaix/Flanders before it and the Tour after there’s precious little oxygen for the Giro.
My radical solution, particularly if the Vuelta moves to the spring: move the Giro to September/October, directly in competition with the Worlds. This would be part of the effort of making the Fall season all about Italy. You already got Lombardia and Emilia. Add the Giro and add an early September/late August one week Giro prep stage race (move Romandie?). Make a new one day classic before Emilia and Lombardia that will make that new three pack be a Fall equivalent to the Spring Ardennes.
IMO the Bike racing world suffers in the Fall. It just peters out. Some riders stop early, some go for this race, some for that, and no races are riveting. Italian cycling can change all of that. I know what I am proposing sounds weird but I think it could make the post-Tour calendar much more interesting by getting a series of one day classics and the Giro away from the Tour and ASOI races so riders can rest up and peak twice.
by ursula on Sep 16, 2008 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gah
I can’t beLEEEve you just wrote a post about the Giro in September. That’s dedication right there.
Short answer? I have no freakin’ idea who’s riding. I need me some team rosters first.
And, no way are we moving the Giro from May. Unacceptable. Do what you want with the Vuelta, but the Giro? No way, no how.
by gavia on Sep 16, 2008 9:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If writing too much about the Giro is wrong...
never mind. What can I say, it’s been bothering me lately.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 16, 2008 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there can never be too much giro
so heart that race. i think when the time comes, we’ll enjoy it just fine. but i really don’t know who’s racing, i’ll work on that. Since it’s bothering you ;-)
by gavia on Sep 16, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as long as
you protect me from the angry cervélo people
by gavia on Sep 16, 2008 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giro
IMO deserves a fate better than just another minor stage race, which it is on the road to becoming. Same with Italian cycling in general. rRght now its being marganalized; soon races will start to get cancelled.
Its a natural thing for humans to want to get out a ride bikes when spring comes- and to see the best riders doing the same. But people ride all summer, even into the fall. The pro racing calendar is in danger of being swamped by the whale that is ASO so that everything from the first hint of spring onwards will point toward the Tour. Its really quite simple: Cobbles-Ardennes-practice stage races(regional Spanish races/Vuelta/Swiss races/Dolphin)-Tour. After that….. The Giro is in danger of becoming roadkill in this world.
The Giro is in danger of becoming rustic. Already she shouldn’t have the same VDS point value as the Tour; she already doesn’t with CQ. Lets change that and give her the love she deserves instead of putting her on a pedestal.
by ursula on Sep 16, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ebbs and flows
If the home team can field strong riders, it changes everything. The Giro would be a prestigious race, and would maybe draw in some better foreign talent, if they were expecting a top-flight competition. But when the home team is weak, it knocks the race down a peg in stature. The Giro is way better than the Vuelta, but the Vuelta can count on Contador, Valverde and Sastre, to name just a few, every year.
The Giro will be fine mostly, and great at times, but I think they’re gonna slip to third place for a few years.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll make a better case fot this in the offseason
Give us something to talk about. But I don’t think this is a simple ebb and flow thing anymore.
by ursula on Sep 17, 2008 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Third place?
And there was I thinking that the future of pro cycling seems very much to be headed to Italy. Everywhere else teams are folding, yet they have more new sponsors than seems decent. OK they don’t get the same international coverage as the Tour, but the domestic scene looks a lot healthier than in France and Belgium.
by Monty. on Sep 17, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
si...
Or Spain. Quick name a major team with a Spanish sponsor. Caisse is a French company that does business in Spain. They’ve lost a fair number of races in Spain over the last few seasons, and the ASO could buy a stake in the Vuelta, because it was barely solvent.
I don’t think the same could be said for Italy. I haven’t heard too many laments of lost races in Italy recently. And, they actually gained one in the Eroica.
by gavia on Sep 17, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to be able to name one
but Karpin pulled out to be replaced by something that only Albertina can pronounce.
by Monty. on Sep 17, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, it'll find a way
to be a great race. In fact, maybe the lack of dominant figures will make it more fun than ever, if not overly significant.
Just sayin’, surely I’m not the only one bothered by the state of Italian stage racing these days??
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 16, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andy Schleck?
He finished 2nd in the ‘07 Giro, so why not come back to win it. Ok, so he and his bro may be CSC-Saxo’s Tour captains with Sastre gone, but wouldn’t his chances for the top spot on the podium be better at the Giro with (usually) more emphasis on climbing and less on chrono as well as no Contador presumably? I’d take the Maglia Rosa over a top 5 placing at the Tour. Also, he’s so young that he should have many years in the future to target the Tour.
by huy on Sep 16, 2008 10:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He might
Depends if Bjarne can field a potential winning team w/o Andy. I imagine there are some moves left to make, and the Tour has to show its hand too before people start plotting.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way,
it’s all about the Tour for him next year…
by Bruce Suomi on Sep 17, 2008 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For an decent GC contender, including the Ardennes guys
Its about the Tour. That,s the de facto championship. The Giro is a sideshow. Cunego made that point perfectly clear. Liquigas fielding its two great young stars in the Tour made that clear. Basso in ’10, when he skips the Giro for the Tour will make that clear.
by ursula on Sep 17, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard that
SamSan is looking forward to riding the Giro in his new Cervelo Test Team kit.
by OnTheRivet on Sep 16, 2008 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DiLuca
Doping baggage aside, I enjoyed watching DiLuca in the Giro the past two years. In ‘07 he attacked, then showed grinta and suffered, but held on to win. This year he came out fighting again because it was his only chance, then suffered and showed grinta in defeat. His “preparations” were not as strong this year but I still found him one of the more compelling riders in the race. While I know they’re better at one-day races and certainly enjoy them in those races, I find Diluca and other Ardennes-type guys like Cunego, Valverde, and SamSan very exciting for me as a fan in GT’s because of their highs and lows. They take risks, go for stage wins one day then suffer the next. You know they’ll falter, but when, whereas many true GT guys seem too methodically and consistently…uh…well, good. Not sure what I’m talking about here, but I know I love the Giro. Vive le Giro! :)
by huy on Sep 16, 2008 11:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still love DiLuca
Before he became officially shady, he was my favorite rider. Tenacity personified. But he can’t hump it over the Gavia/Mortirolo double. He needs a mellower parcours to even get back into the conversation, and after this year it seems like the big races don’t want to skimp on climbs just now.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s too bad the Giro gets shafted, in my opinion it’s the best of the tours. I don’t know why I think this – maybe because I’m a cold-weather guy, not that Italy in spring is cold but hey, it’s the tour in which it’s most likely to snow – can you imagine Hampsten in a snowstorm on the Gavia in France or Spain? (Well maybe, but with greater difficulty.) In the Tour and the Vuelta it’s just so…sunny.
There’s also something more tragic about the Giro – it just has more pathos somehow. Right down to the maglia rosa – pink, but a kind of faded pink, not bright yellow or gold like the other guys. I guess this is just a personal feeling, but I almost feel bad for the guy wearing it – as though it portends doom somehow. Maybe it’s the ghost of Coppi, the idea of dying young.
Maybe I’ve just seen too many Antonioni films…maybe I should just shut up.
Maybe I’m just feeling “romantic” about the Giro because I’ve been reading Buzzatti’s book – someone here recommended it, can’t remember who, but thanks.
by plinytheelder on Sep 17, 2008 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pellizotti won the Tour de Suisse?
I couldn’t find any of this on cqranking.com, you must mean Kreuziger?
by brunopitton on Sep 17, 2008 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sheeeooot.
Let me try that again…
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All mended now
thanks!
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Armstrong at the Giro and Tour?
The Vanity article mentioned that Lance might do the Giro as prep for the Tour.
by The Team Chef on Sep 17, 2008 1:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see Armstrong
do the Giro and Vuelta. The TdF? Been there (7 times)
His claim as the best rider is completely undermined due to his lack of Giro and Vuelta results.
Whereas others (like Contador!) has done all 3
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 17, 2008 3:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to say it one more time just because it bugs me
The Giro was getting better every year with the ProTour. More HQ international GC-riders because all the teams were obligated to send teams, more competitive stages, less pianostages. The wildcard teams may be motivated and add local enthusiasm but a lot of the times quality simply beats motivation.
It will always be a beautiful race of course, with great racing, but by siding with ASO rather than the UCI the Giro doomed itself to be a provincial race, forever languishing in the shadow of the Tour.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on Sep 17, 2008 2:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You said this before?
Heh heh. I’ll take your word for it.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
Giro fields were always terrible until the past couple years — worse than the Vuelta. Lovely race, but when Gonchar and Popovych are perennial top-5 on GC, you have issues. Simoni, Savoldelli, and Garzelli get love here for being Italian but if they had focused on the Tour, they would have had difficulty beating Mancebo for 8th place.
The fields were getting a lot better though with the ProTour, especially when CSC and Discovery started taking the Giro seriously.
But to a great extent, the Italians did themselves in. Basso and later Ricco — 2 or the top 3 GT talents in the world today — could have propelled the Giro to be a direct rival of the Tour, especially consideirng the depth of Italian riders and the decline of quality riders in countries that really care about the Tour.
by Mr 60 Percent on Sep 17, 2008 7:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not worried
A few teams will at least let their top GC lieutenants ride the Giro as captains. If he’s smart, Levi will attempt to win it; if they’re not verboten by then, we might see Mick Rogers and little Dekker; Gesink’s not a bad guess, and Cunego might try to go back to his roots.
The Tour will be like a Godzilla movie in 2009, with Andy and Alberto and Lance stomping on the peloton.
by Softie on Sep 17, 2008 8:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hmm
I never really get these sorts of discussions. What does it really matter which grand tour is “the best”? And really, what do you mean by that anyway? If you want to watch it, watch it. If not, wait for the Tour.
Me, I enjoy the Giro, no matter who rides it. It always has an interesting course – no long marathon marches across the wheat fields of Northern France, for example. The mountains are difficult and unforgiving. The scenery is good. The tifosi have passion. It is appealing for what it is, not for any ranking relative to anything else.
I enjoy the Tour, too. It’s July, it’s France. It has iconic climbs, the Alpe d’huez, Luz Ardiden. There are sunflowers. It has it’s dull spots, of course, those interminable flat stages. Thank goodness they spared us those this year. But here again, it doesn’t really matter who rides it. Because there will always be good stories. Before the Tour this year, there was so much talk about how without Contador it would be flat, that Evans would inevitably win, and that, because Evans is not especially charismatic on or off the bike, July would be a dull affair. It didn’t turn out that way at all. To me, this year was one of the most interesting Tours in years. So many plots and subplots, twists and turns, and an unexpected finale in Sastre’s big move on the Alpe.
Maybe it’s a dude thing, this need to make heirarchies. Me, not so much. I have my favorite races, the riders they come and go. Whatever the race, some years are more exciting than others.
I don’t think anyone in Italy right now is wringing their hands over the Giro. Anyway, it should be quite a party, with the 100th anniversary.
by gavia on Sep 17, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Psssst, we don't really care either
we’re just testing how much Giro-bashing Chris can take before smoke comes out his ears……
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on Sep 17, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money follows money
Yeah, I see that hierarchies are kinda dumb. But we are aware that things change. In most of Italy’s history there was no Giro and the would be tifosi were concerned with other things. What I’m getting at is that events like the Giro or Tour don’t exist by right, they are human creations, and that fans can quickly change their attention to other creations if given the opportunity. That opportunity usually happens by some farsighted planning. That’s what the ASO is doing now. With them they are looking toward the future, making a cycling calendar that focuses on their events.
RCS, on the other hand, have no vision that I see. Its more like, “There will always be a Giro. Nothing will change that.” They don’t imagine a possible future where the money will go elsewhere. They aren’t sure that ASO is a competitor or a friend. They aren’t enhancing their product. They are complacent. The logical outcome of this is that ASO will grow to be so dominant over RCS that they can basically dictate which riders will go where with all the best Italian riders not racing any RCS races. Those races would have the same impact as some 2.8 race. Good luck following the Giro then.
Look at the history of auto racing. You see the same committing interests and the same edging out and eventually canceling of famous races. Races that were institutions. Fans, as a rule, follow like lemmings. Honestly it makes little difference to them what they follow; they will go form one thing to another. ASO understands that. RSC? Not so much.
by ursula on Sep 17, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's been 100 years...
I’m not sure the race is all that fleeting if it has a 100 year history. I have yet to see any concerns in the press about securing sponsors – that may show up over the winter, but as yet, there are no reports of problems. This year’s television numbers were very good – especially for the mountain stages – and last year was also. Overall, Italian cycling is healthy in terms of sponsors – there are new sponsors coming in for teams, and for the most part, they haven’t seen teams disappear in the way of Germany. I just haven’t seen commentary from anyone in Italy to suggest that Italian cycling is in crisis. Maybe you’ve read something I haven’t.
I’m not sure how you see the RCS as complacent. But again, maybe you know something about their plans that I don’t.
by gavia on Sep 17, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's relevant
And not just in my Italian-cycling-obsessed brain. I want three great grand tours, but the reality is riders choose one (or two) over another. I want a quorum of the best GC guys to choose the Giro, but instead it looks like they’ll all choose the Tour. And I’m not gonna take it anymore!
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're close to smoke people
Quick, someone mention a better cycling-book than Buzzati.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
by Jens on Sep 17, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re close to smoke people
My Tour Rankings:
1. Tdf
2. Vuelta
3. Dauphiné
4. Tour de Suisse
5. Giro
In part because Dauphiné and TdS are always full of the big names gearing up for the Tdf …. and in part because they are nice, sharp, hilly courses – but mainly in jest …. (looking for smoke)
"Tourists and locals are watching from sidewalk cafes. Non-racers. The emptiness of those lives shocks me." Tim Krabbe
by cyclingchallenge on Sep 17, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
GRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
YYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHH!!!
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Vuelta's importance has been elevated
by the Astana situation this year. It’s long term significance is definitely far behind both the Tour and Giro. In fact, should Alberto win this year’s race, I’ll bet he never makes another appearance in Spain’s GT.
It’s no coincidence that Merckx and Anquetil only have one victory in the race, particularly Eddy. It also worth noting that Indurain never won his own country’s Grand Tour. Another glaring absentee from the list of winners is Coppi. The reasons for the lack of interest in the race are many, and could fill up an entire thread.
In keeping with Gavia’s theory that dudes need to rank things (*see below), I’ll offer my long-term Tour hierarchy:
1. TDF
2. Giro
3. Vuelta
4. Suisse
5. Basque Country
6. Dauphine
7. Romandie
*Is there a dude that hasn’t made a top 10 hottest chicks list? Isn’t this male ranking gene the very reason that magazines like Maxim, and their ilk, even exist? FWIW my top ten list is updated every year.
by The Team Chef on Sep 17, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bahahahaha!
That was beautiful :-)
Perhaps on Friday during Happy Hour, a comparison of lists should occur…
I so heart the Tour de Suisse. That’s a lovely race right there. I like it better than the Vuelta. But just one of those things.
by gavia on Sep 17, 2008 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tour de Suisse
…is nice enough…but it can’t top sangria, steep climbs, and spanish boys…..give me la vuelta every time!!!
by steph- on Sep 17, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
p.s.
Hierarchies totally rule! Contact me offline for a copy of the hierarchy that exists in my bike closet.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on Sep 17, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch, that's a bit harsh!?
I enjoy the Giro more than the other 2, but I don’t know if it’s a “dude need to make hierarchies” – I watch/follow the other two as well, enjoy them immensely. To me, there’s just something about the Giro that’s a bit more special on a personal level, that’s all. Doesn’t mean it’s “the best.”
by plinytheelder on Sep 17, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
i was agreeing with you ;-)
that is, everyone has the races they like best. i don’t see a problem with that. i don’t understand the need to declare this race or that one the very bestest of all, or maybe more specifically, to declare the Tour the norm against which the rest are compared.
by gavia on Sep 17, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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