Newbie Training Question
Hey guys,
Okay, let me admit this up front: I am new to the sport of cycling in every way. Last year I started biking to work (well, to the train station, which is about a mile from my house), and it quickly blew up into a whole full-blown thing.
So here's my problem: I did two triathlons this year (a sprint and a mini), which was great, but since I come from a swimming background, I was basically one of the first guys out of the water and then promptly spent the next hour-plus getting passed by, well, everyone. I mean, I know I'm never gonna be Greg LeMonde or anything, but I would like to at least get in the neighborhood of my potential. In my last race, my bike split averaged 19.4 mph. That's probably not terrible, but that said, I'd bet everyone on this board can go faster than that for a comparable 14-mile jaunt.
Bottom line: how do I get faster without sacrificing the time I need for training in the other disciplines? Should I just be riding longer at every pop, or should I do some kind of intervals? Is there some really basic, basic guideline of which I'm just ignorant?
I'm a husband and father of two, so training time is at a premium, but I can make time for anything within reason, especially on weekends.
Thanks!
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spend some time
with Joe Friel’s Training Bible for Triathletes (or some such title).
THen check out the postings at slow-twitch.com.
Short answer: yes to intervals, especially of the 10 min at threshold, 10 min recovery, 10 min at t-hold variety.
(and investing in some form of measuring device: hr or power (especially power) is worthwhile.
by R Mc on
Sep 30, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
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Intervals, intervals, intervals
If finding time is a problem, which it usually is, get a trainer. Training indoors is no fun, but it’s the only time I can ever do intervals. Next, pick your favorite sporting event, say football, and come up with a program that follows the game.
1. Pick a team and when that team has the ball, go at threshhold.
2. When the other ream has the ball, recover and cruise
3. When there is a commercial, get out of the saddle, gear appropriately and act like you’re climbing a mountain
It’s definitely not the most structured workout, and some cycling die-hards would probably scoff, but it’s fun, which if you’re not a pro, is what it’s all about.
By half-time, you have cranked out 90 minutes of a pretty intensive workout while not missing the game. The only thing left is to tackle a 4-pack of Sammy Smith’s while watching the second half and putting back all those calories you just burned.
by PopUp Rolen on
Sep 30, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
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i like this plan...
intervals on an indoor trainer . intervals are key – although i was a swim coach, i think it’s the same principle for endurance efforts like triathlon, and interval training gives you some kick when you need it. we coached a number of swimmers who also did tri and it was all about the intervals… i attend two or three spin classes a week just for this type of intensity.
by nickel17 on
Sep 30, 2008 5:14 PM EDT
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i'm on board with spin classes too
Especially in the winter. Good for high-intensity workouts.
by PopUp Rolen on
Sep 30, 2008 5:27 PM EDT
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Oh man PopUp...
I know you’re here in Chicago… I just hope your not a Bear’s fan or you’ll be recovering and crusing for most of the game. (Tee hee hee hee…. sorry, I couldn’t help it. LOL!)
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
by nikki on
Oct 2, 2008 11:41 PM EDT
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Thanks guys.
I usually get up early and ride on weekends, but it’s tough to also try to swim and get to the gym—also on weekends. It’s easier to lift, run, or swim on week nights, but cycling at night is actively scary.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on
Sep 30, 2008 2:32 PM EDT
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i did swimm and next triathlon too
like you i was one of the first in swim, and in bike was poor too, I limited myself to go on the wheel.
if you interested in triathlon only, you have to focus more in running. Because if you running a lot you loose the weight (in swimm you tend to be heavier), need for running (very important) and in cycling too.Cycling is important for that little climbs and recovery from that.
Another important training is the transition for bike to run: every week in one train i used to do about 40km, 60km of bike and next (stop only to change the equipment) about 50 minutes (10km) for running.
If you are good already in running, focus a little bit more in bike, To be good in cycling i think are no mistery, you have to do a lot of cycling, hours. (my coach, Sergio Santos used to say this)
by semprenaroda on
Sep 30, 2008 3:18 PM EDT
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i was talking with...
a couple of ironman competitors i know, and the opinion seems to be that the bike is key. even if you lose time in the water, you can pull it back on the bike (as spun says below, you won’t lose a triathlon in the swim). i’ve never totally mastered the bike so while people kept saying “why don’t you do tri?” i never have.
by nickel17 on
Sep 30, 2008 5:23 PM EDT
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I wanted to do a triathlon
but it was against the rules to wear a lifejacket
by cyclingchallenge on
Sep 30, 2008 5:37 PM EDT
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swimsuit
of neoprene, isn’t a big diference. ;)
by semprenaroda on
Sep 30, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
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"seems to be that the bike is key"
ok, you talk with ironman competitors, and they can’t drafting. This is a big diference, in a ironman, swimming is the less important discipline for sure.less time=less gaps.
But in a olimpic or sprint distance, bike is less important then others, only if the parcous is hilly, but is rare, i think. IF you swimm good, you already are at front and "only"have to have a bit of luck to catch a good group, after, you must only pull sometimes, because is rare somebody attack in bike.
Don’t forget to do some abdominal exercices in the final of the run because i remember to “jump” this exercices a few times, and ruin one or two races with large abdominal pain.
by semprenaroda on
Sep 30, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
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yes, true enough...
although at this Olympics it was sometimes looking like the swim was not as important as you would traditionally think. but i’ve coached triathletes in swimming who were looking to make their biggest gains in this leg.
by nickel17 on
Sep 30, 2008 7:31 PM EDT
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there are exemples
like Ivan Rana (world and european champion in 2003). He swimms bad, but is an excelent rider and mostly a great runner. I remmember a few World Cups in that year, and the Spain team some times have to wait for him after the swim, and putt him at front during the bike. In running, he crushed the opponents…
If you swim bad, you loose almost at start, but if you run bad instead, you will break a lot. In bike you only have to hold…
i knew guys from duathlon (Lino Barruncho for exemple) that in run and bike are excelent. But in the swim he loose many many time. In cycling he almost do a Time trial creating a large group of riders only in his draft. He run excelent of course but in maximum he achieved the top10 in a portuguese triathlon.Thats whats happen here in Portugal a guys like Lino.He do Ironmans sometimes and performs much better.
But in swimm, or you learn in maximum at 15,16 years old, or if not you never will learn good.
by semprenaroda on
Sep 30, 2008 8:29 PM EDT
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"But in swimm, or you learn in maximum at 15,16 years old, or if not you never will learn good."
yes – i think you can pick up the bike and running later but there is no substitute for training in the developing years in swimming and all the muscle memory that comes with that. i’ve tried to tell that to numerous frustrated adults who learned late and couldn’t figure out why they couldn’t match what previous age-group swimmers could do even with lots of training and practice…
by nickel17 on
Oct 1, 2008 1:11 AM EDT
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you are right
but in triathlon i think there still a long way to know how to devolepment a athlete.
In the past, almost the thriatlonist for Olympics and Sprints distance begin training all the three components with about 20 years (until that age only focus in one modality), and their peak were at 26,7. Now you see much youngers athletes, like Vanessa Fernandes and Javier Gomez, thriatlonist that begin training all the components at 15,16, and now (with 21,22) are in top of that distances. Actually If you see the top 50 in world thriatlon, still mostly athletes only start triathlon with 19,20..
Ok, this sports are recently in Olympics, this is a big push.
by semprenaroda on
Oct 1, 2008 8:46 AM EDT
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That's true.
But the typical racer is still a guy who, like me, used to excel in one discipline and then transitioned in their 30’s to triathlon. For me, I like the sport because: a) it bores the heck out of me to do just one thing, and there’s no reason to focus anymore (I mean, I’m not on scholarship or anything), and b) it’s easier on my knees and other joints to do a lot of different things.
At the races I’ve been to, most guys are in their 30s and 40s, either re-entering serious competition after a layoff (mine of 15 years in about the norm) or simply getting into something else because they can no longer compete at the elite level in any single discipline.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on
Oct 1, 2008 9:42 AM EDT
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I like the sport because: a) it bores the heck out of me to do just one thing
this is the main reason that people starts triathlon
you can train more hours and keep the motivation.
by semprenaroda on
Oct 1, 2008 10:31 AM EDT
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I would do a couple of things
I race duathlons myself, since I can’t swim worth a damn. One key workout you are going to want to do is a bike/run brick workout once a week. This will get you used to running after riding. I wouldn’t even worry about swimming since you are a swimmer and swimming won’t lose a triathlon for you. Next thing I would do is do a 30 minute time trial and use a heart rate monitor to get a good heart rate to set a threshold level for training purposes. Do this after a good 15-20 minute warm-up. I say 30 minutes because most of your bike legs are probably only going to be around 20k or so and 30 minutes is good enough for a good heart rate reading. You can’t use speed as a measuring device as every course will be different and weather conditions will probably different as well. Heart rate is a good indicator, unless you have a power meter laying around. You can do the same thing for the run as well. As far as the intervals, you can always do some informal speedwork and that will get you faster. There really is no 100% correct way to do it. If you have fun doing it, you’ll keep doing it. If you’re not having fun, you won’t do it.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on
Sep 30, 2008 4:10 PM EDT
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Drew?
He’s our resident trainer.
Everything I learned came from him or Joe Friel’s Cyclist Training Bible, an aptly named book.
"If writing too much about the Classics is wrong, I don't want to be right."
by Chris... on
Sep 30, 2008 4:55 PM EDT
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Everything?
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
by crashdan on
Sep 30, 2008 8:56 PM EDT
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intervals? bahhhh, they suck
go old school and just ride, a lot. like the cannibal.
there are many ways to gain fitness and speed, but intervals are the best once you have a good base. by a good base I mean you need to already have some LSD (not the hippy kind; Long – steady – distance) and then work in the intervals as prescribed above.
by humbug1 on
Sep 30, 2008 10:24 PM EDT
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that's how
we’d progress through the swim season – building up distance first, then hard intervals, then speed work. and there’s no substitute for just logging kilometres – you have to break through into the zone and that takes time and distance in the pool (and on the bike).
by nickel17 on
Oct 1, 2008 1:07 AM EDT
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Again, my thanks guys.
I would agree that I need to spend more time on the bike, period, but I also know that I need to work my runs more. To put it in perspective, my last tri was a sprint. I spent:
- 12 minutes in the water and running to the transition area.
- 44 minutes on the bike
- 26 minutes running.
In terms of averages, I think my run was the worst—8:25 pace. In an Olympic distance event, that would have been okay, but in a Sprint, it was slow.
By comparison: I came out of the water 5th. I came off my bike maybe in the mid-40’s to mid-50s. But I was okay with that, honestly; I mean, I knew I wasn’t gonna finish 5th overall. But then I lost time in the transition, and then dropped to 99th after the run (out of almost 400). However, if I’d either run 8-minute miles or biked in the 41-42 minutes range, I’d have held on at about 50th. So I think that’s a reasonable goal.
I like to do brick workouts, but I want to spend the offseason building a base in the seperate disciplines. Hence my question about base training: long rides or intervals?
I think I’m hearing to build a LSD base first and then transition to interval work later. No?
Thanks again!
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on
Oct 1, 2008 8:07 AM EDT
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Speed work?
Do you do any run speed work? If you want to shave time off your run, it’s the only way to go, especially if you stay in the Sprint category. I built a huge running base over the winter this year, focusing on distance and endurance. Once June came, I put 80% of my run efforts into speed work. Here is what my typical week was:
Sunday: 6 mile run at very comfortable pace
Tuesday: Track workouts – Mile warm-up, 4×400 with one minute rest, 2×800 with two minute rest, 4×400 with one minute rest and a mile warm down.
Thursday: 3 × 1 mile as fast as I can possibly run with two minute rest between each mile, then a mile cool down
With this type of program (feel free to mix up speed-work with different intervals) I shaved my run times in sprints from 7:56 to 7:06 and International distance miles from 8:20 to 7:40.
by PopUp Rolen on
Oct 1, 2008 9:21 AM EDT
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Awesome!
I do some speed work, but the base has been lacking. I know I can get down to 8-minute miles with a modicum of effort. But this last spring I had to re-hab from a broken hand and basically learn to bike from scratch, and my run suffered because of it.
That said, I’ve never any organized run training. I like this.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on
Oct 1, 2008 9:44 AM EDT
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"I think I’m hearing to build a LSD base first and then transition to interval work later. No?"
yes, then cap it off with speed work going into the race season, as popup suggests. we gave you the long answer :)
by nickel17 on
Oct 1, 2008 9:43 AM EDT
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The miles?
Just book ’em, Danno.
(Come on, somebody had to . . .)
by Sui Juris on
Oct 1, 2008 8:57 AM EDT
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guaranteed speed on the bike?
buy a new one – with really shiny carbon wheels. And white tape and a white saddle to match your white shoes so you look all euro and shit.
I know, no help, but I couldn’t resist.
by humbug1 on
Oct 1, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
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hey
I resemble that remark.
gav <—- a sucker for white bar wrap and a white saddle. but my shoes are blue.
by gavia on
Oct 1, 2008 1:20 PM EDT
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oh I do too, so in the winter when I am all fat - I still look fast
at least to myself anyway.
by humbug1 on
Oct 1, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
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it's all about looking fast
actually being fast, eh, totally over-rated ;-)
by gavia on
Oct 1, 2008 6:49 PM EDT
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thanks for asking
helpful to me too. My problem is that swimming thing, ick.
by kimchi on
Oct 1, 2008 6:54 PM EDT
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Sharks help...
train with sharks. The ones with frickin’ laser beams are even better…
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
by crashdan on
Oct 1, 2008 9:26 PM EDT
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crocs and sharks
perfect, I’ll definitely try that. They did reportedly just find a crocodile in a river around here… I’ll try to find him.
by kimchi on
Oct 2, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
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