Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Jim Irsay: We Can Make It Work With Peyton Manning

Back Pocket Previews '09: Liquigas

Back-pocket-2_mediumWhich came first, Ivan Basso's signature on a new contract, or Liquigas' remaking as the Italian stage race squad? I wouldn't go confusing them with US Postal circa 2001 just yet, but for a team that has a history of broad focus (or maybe just lack of focus), Liquigas is forging a new identity.

But at what cost? Ivan Basso's return counts as probably the sport's largest crisis on tap for 2009: the repatriation of an Operacion Puerto rider into the top echelon of the sport. Yes, other OP guys are hanging around, thanks to muddled evidence and other factors which made their exclusion impossible or at least unnecessary. But unlike the uncertain cases against, say, Alejandro Valverde, we more or less know what Basso did. He cheated, and prospered. We also know that, unlike various cases where OP names can't get hired, Liquigas went out of their way to thumb their noses at the gentlemen's agreement to extend bans to four years, hiring Basso as soon as he could get a license. And unlike diminished returnees like Tyler Hamilton, we will find out soon enough if Basso is still an elite grand tour cyclist, the answer probably being yes. Not good times.

Did it have to be this way? Liquigas had seen its fortunes of the last several years rise and fall on the efforts of Danilo DiLuca, and when DiLuca's own troubles brought him a short suspension, Liquigas cut him loose and set about building a different team. Not that I don't love Il Killer di Spoltore, but the resulting squad was a huge improvement: Daniele Bennati came aboard to win some stages and help Filippo Pozzato in Belgium and France. DiLuca's middlin' grand tour abilities no longer blocked their formidable young talents like Roman Kreuziger and Vincenzo Nibali. The Killer would be missed in the Ardennes, but while the team toggled between 17th (on the CQ rankings) and 3rd depending on one rider's efforts (and Pozzato's customary 1000 points), in 2008 they settled into 6th place on the backs of an array of diverse, talented, and largely improving young riders.

Dropping in Basso short-circuits the remake of Team Liquigas, co-opting it into Team Basso instead. Instead of being an interesting team to watch at the Giro, they are hands-down favorites to win, and to threaten any Tour de France champions if ASO ever extends Basso an invite to le Grand Boucle. You can't blame head-honcho Roberto Amadio for jumping at this chance, but the question going forward will be, was it worth it? The headaches, the salary, the fan reactions...? Or would Liquigas have prospered anyway, and more gracefully?

Attributes: Incredible stage-race depth. As hinted above, this team was somewhat loaded before Basso came on. Now youngsters like Kreuziger and Nibali, as well as B-lister Franco Pellozotti, can slot comfortably into support roles in the grand tours. Liquigas also spirited away Sylvester Szmyd from Lampre, adding some chrono muscle to a squad that already knew how to bust out a team time trial: first at the 2007 Giro; 8" back at the 2008 Giro; first at the 2008 Vuelta. You can wonder why Liquigas chose Basso, but there's little secret as to why Basso chose Liquigas.

Problems: Chances of winning outside the Giro. Pozzato left for Katyusha, leaving Liquigas thin for the cobbles. Manuele Quinziato and maybe Daniele Bennati will have to hold down the fort. DiLuca's departure created a hole in their Ardennes squad that hasn't been patched, two years later. Basso would be a contender but it may be a while before ASO cares to invite him; meanwhile, Kjell Carlstrom isn't going to sneak up on anyone. Then there's Bennati, potentially a green jersey winner in France. Will he have to go it completely alone against the Columbia juggernaut?

Key Rider: Roman Kreuziger. If you make Kreuziger and Pellizotti and Nibali base their season around helping Basso, it seems like kind of a waste. Hopefully they'll be given real chances to shine in some one-week races, out of fairness at least. But in Kreuziger's case it's particularly important to figure out how to make use of his talents. At age 22 he won the Suisse Tour and finished 12th in Paris -- an age 22 season that speaks of truly elite talent. Conceivably Basso can focus on winning the Giro this year and hope for clemency and a Tour shot for 2010, which means Kreuziger could include a Giro win in his to-do list as early as next year. The two could make a formidable duo for the next few years, until Kreuziger is ready to be a true captain, and a reformed Basso might be the perfect shield for a young emerging rider (see La Vie Claire, circa 1984). But with Basso out of the Tour this year and hogging the Giro limelight, there's simply less to do, meaning now is a good time to see what young Roman can do in places like the Ardennes or some Spanish one-week events, with little pressure.

Key Moment(s):  May 21, 2009. Also known as the date of the year's most grueling time trial, the 61km jaunt from Sestri Levante to Riomaggiore. One would expect Basso to race more conservatively, tracking his rivals, over the Cuneo-Pinerolo stage, coming as it does two days before the mega-chrono where he stands to put a huge dent into the other climbers. But is Basso 2.0 the hardman he was back in his CSC/Birillo days? And what happens to your legs after a monster stage like the Cuneo jaunt, when you've been out of racing for two years? If Liquigas have gone all-in on Basso, Basso himself has gone all-in on the Centenary Giro, and he's likely to sink or swim at the GC level based on his ability to crush his rivals along the roads of the Cinque Terre.

Passing Thought: Change is in the air, and it's not an empty buzzword; it's a complicated one. In the current political environment, we are being asked to face up to our comfortable way of doing things, as individuals and as a body politic. As President Obama told us Tuesday, America suffers from a "collective failure to make hard choices and prepare the nation for a new age." Avoiding hard choices is nothing new, nor uniquely American or political, and at the risk of torturing the metaphor, I'd say it applies to Cycling rather well. Ivan Basso's return to Cycling is a painful reminder of a past in which the sport steadfastly avoided hard choices. Basso himself chose to consult with Dr. Fuentes in search of insurance against his Tour aspirations. But he did so in an environment which pointedly failed to punish people for such choices, which is tantamount to endorsing them, even requiring them.

Now Basso returns to a changed sport. Nobody is declaring total victory, but the consequences of cheating are real, even surprisingly so. Imagine how Riccardo Ricco felt when someone told him that the Tour was testing for CERA, only months after Ricco seemingly acquired an untraceable drug. Look at the biological passport program, the internal checks, and the terrible punishments being handed out to star riders, once thought immune to justice. Two yellow jerseys disgraced, stage winners and high finishers like Kohl, Sella, Piepoli, Schumacher all unemployed. Cycling is making the hard choices nowadays, even if they had to exhaust the alternatives first.

Basso puts us fans in the position of making a hard choice: seeing him as permanently stained, or letting bygones be bygones. I admit, I don't have an answer yet. Maybe one will suggest itself more clearly as we watch him race. It becomes easy if he can't keep up -- we don't have to care either way. But I really don't think we fans will have that luxury. I expect him to win big, and it becomes pretty hard to check your opinions when a guy pulls on the maglia rosa. Not to overstate it, but Basso is the ultimate test of your ability to move on from the horrible scandals of the last several years, and the future of cycling depends in some small part on how we resolve the past. As I said, I'm withholding a decision for now, but for what it's worth, I think I know what President no-drama Obama would do...

Comment 47 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Nibali

I’d expect Nibali to ride better in next year’s Tour without the Giro in his legs. If not, well, then his days as a “rising star” are numbered, and his career will shift toward a supporting role for friend and team-mate Kreuziger. I’m not ready to give up on the kid just yet, though he hasn’t yet made any big results. I’m looking forward to seeing what both Nibali and Kreuziger do in July.

by Jen See on Jan 22, 2009 6:40 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah

I decided not to talk about him this year. I talked about him a lot last year, and it didn’t do him much good. We’ll see, he’s still young.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 22, 2009 7:02 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL

Sounds like a plan. Let’s say we ignore him completely and see what happens. Heh, I’d like to see him go big, but not sure if it’s going to happen.

by Jen See on Jan 22, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

very nice post

you seem inspired with Obama’s words.lol

I don’t like Liquigas, they are trouble. I think is the most problematic team in last years, every year had at least one case of doping…

I din’t saw yet, but you are right, this year they are a GT team. (Oliver Zauug coming too). Pozzato need to change and Quinziato only can do something in minor cobbles classics.

by semprenaroda on Jan 22, 2009 7:04 PM EST reply actions  

What's his dealy again?

I looked at him and kind of drew a blank.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 22, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

climber-stage racer guy

Rode for Gerolsteiner last year. Finished in the top ten on the Angliru and eh, at least one other mountain stage at the Vuelta. Placed high in the GC, too, I want to say 11th or 12th. At Liquigas, he’s a very solid support rider for Basso in the mountains, with maybe a shot at getting a result for himself along the way. Not especially old either, and been developing steadily, though no real stand-out results that I know of. Not on the Kreuziger level, for ex., but solid talent in the mountains.

by Jen See on Jan 22, 2009 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Zaugg

Yeah he finished 11th in the Vuelta, ahead of Moreno. It will be interesting to see if joining Leeky will help Zaugg’s chrono abilities because until now they are donkey-esque.

by ursula on Jan 23, 2009 2:04 AM EST up reply actions  

It's the Podium Cafe

where you get what you pay for.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 23, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I've mostly avoided liquigas for my VDS

totally agreed, too many “random” doping problems there. But am not willing to drop Zaugg. So I’ve taken him again. Hope they’ve decided to get clean(er) as a practical choice, if not a philosophical preference.

by JFS_PGH on Jan 23, 2009 2:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I don't really know what to think about these guys

I disagree that they have “incredible” stage race talent. Clearly Kreuziger is on his way up and Pello rode a good Giro last year, but other than that, they’re nothing special. As far as Basso, I wouldn’t be surprised if he falls short of expectations. It is entirely possible, not because of his two year vacation, but because he won’t be able to juice up. Like Ricco, he may have never raced at a top level clean, we just don’t know. Personally, I don’t care how he does. I hope that Kreuziger does well and makes a case for team leadership soon or finds a new team. As far as Nibali, he hasn’t shown me enough yet. Liquigas for most is about Bennati of which I am not a fan. But, overall, good breakdown and I agree about Kreuziger, he’s clearly the future of the team.

If I just had one more gear, I...

by SpunOut on Jan 22, 2009 7:05 PM EST reply actions  

Basso stated, for what is worth,

That he never doped but he was gonna dope himself for the Tour..

I’m a believer

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jan 22, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I know

but really…

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 22, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It would be sad...

Bassa had his bad days.. He wasn’t onnatural expect the last Giro.. So what can we say about the boys without bad days..

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jan 23, 2009 8:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Another problem with that era

No matter what they did, you have to wonder if it was clean or not. If nothing else, Basso had the nerve to call Fuentes, so his past is suspect.

But now, it should be different.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 23, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

You suggest riders like Basso might not even keep up without PED's

These guys are super strong clean, they are exciting for the sport, and I for one can move on. I dropped my Puritanical streak a long time ago, I think many others need to do the same.

by sminer on Jan 22, 2009 7:47 PM EST reply actions  

OK for you

I’ve hinted at the same approach, though I’m not ready yet. Different people will have different comfort levels.

As for Basso being super strong clean, how do we know this? I’d say we will know by May, but right now, I’m not too certain. But again, I suspect he’s going to be somewhere between very good and maglia rosa, without any special “help.” I’m just waiting for confirmation.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 22, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I tend to agree on the puritanical streak...

…especially where we’re talking about guys from that era who have been caught and punished.

I’m not saying I like how things were done during that period, but I think we need to beware of falling too far into a myth of authenticity and claiming that nothing these guys did or ever will do has any validity. We have, for better or worse, decided that certain ways of modulating and preparing the human body for these kinds of competition are ‘natural’ and some are cheating. In fact, all of it is about pushing the body to a kind of peak that it can’t, and doesn’t sustain for more than a few weeks, and even that requires a truly amazing amount of tweaking. On many readings, there is nothing natural about anyone being a professional cyclist, track star, or any other kind of high performance athlete. The same largely goes for ‘authentic’ insofar as it is implicitly tied to questions of what the athlete’s body is ‘naturally’ capable of.

What that means is that what we have here is not some kind of ontologically defensible distinction between natural and unnatural, or authentic and inauthentic ways of achieving athletic performance. What we have is a list of allowed and non-allowed ways of achieving it. To the extent that the proscriptions on that list are enforceable, they make sense and that’s good. To the extent that they are not, however, we’ve got a real problem, since in fact there is no way for the athletes themselves to be even remotely sure that the guy next to them is playing on the same field they are.

I think it is incredibly important to realize how completely the development and serious, consistent application of real enforcement regimes has changed the situation of competition. People who cheat in this situation, where they have a good reason to believe cheating will be caught and punished, seem both genuinely stupid and likely malicious. They deserve severe punishment, if only because if they are not punished and excluded the people who do not want to make a mockery of the rules won’t have the practical conditions to choose not to do so. But even the Riccos, Kohls and Schumackers also reflect the point I just made above. They’re deaf dumb and blind to reality, but you’ll notice, especially from Ricco, that it was precisely his conviction that here was an undetectable form of EPO that made him feel it was necessary to do it. What Ricco and many others are guilty of first and foremost is not understanding how the sport has, finally, changed.

I’d say we also need to realize that its changed, and keep that in mind, before we start pretending to be able to judge its entire past on the basis of standards that make sense now.

by Ed K on Jan 25, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Just want to thank you for putting your thoughts on some history into words for others to read.

I think it’s one of the better opinions I’ve seen written and I hope it helps some put some of their thoughts together in both views. Thank you for taking your time to do it.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Jan 25, 2009 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

huh

I believe this is the first use of ontological on the Podium Cafe. Ruling?

;-)

by Jen See on Jan 25, 2009 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Basso won the Giro by 9 minutes

and by 12 over the first presumably clean rider(Gibo…oh who knows who was doped), I don’t care how doped he was you don’t go winning a GT by that much without great talent. I think he’ll win the Giro because he wants it the most and he wants to prove his doubters.

"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt

by Phil H. on Jan 23, 2009 12:44 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah... I'm not buying yet

I have my doubts too, including his ability to win either the Giro or that monster ITT.

But that’s the fun of watching the races, ain’t it?

by ursula on Jan 23, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions  

That's the point isn't it...

The other riders are only presumed clean from those wins accomplished by guys we know or highly suspect of doping. Basso know he can win clean and will, same with Lance.

by sminer on Jan 23, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a team that I would love to be a fan of

Lot’s of riders whose ridingstyle I really like. Ubertalent Kreutziger, GT Patron Basso, Italian TTer Nibali and so on.

Not going to happen. I have absolutely no trust in this bunch.

 It’s a Teflon-team, the individúal dopingscandals just slide off and the team looks squeaky clean. As a retailer of Teflon-products I can let you in on a little secret. Teflon isn’t clean if you just rinse it in water, you need to scrub it with detergent, otherwise it just looks shiny and clean. As for Basso i just can’t summon the will to believe him, and I have tried. I always come back to the same point , he had the chance to confess and take a new path but he went the old omerta way and took his punishment and kept his mouth shut. How is cycling better off from this?

So as exciting as this team is, and they are going to have a lot of success this year, my feelings can be summed up in a big , fat……….. meh

by Jens on Jan 23, 2009 3:30 AM EST reply actions  

You

and Christian Prudhomme both.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 23, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions  

If he has one or two GT wins come next year I'm guessing Prudhomme could be in a very forgiving mood in 2010

Especially since he, unlike Vino, Kohl, Floyd et.al. , didn’t test positive at the Tour.

by Jens on Jan 23, 2009 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

How is cycling better if he did indeed dope and confessed to it?

You would be able to move forward perhaps and forgive, “Whoopie”. There is never any way of knowing that there isn’t something out there right now that your favorite rider is doing. If a guy gets busted then crucify him and throw him in the “of all the atrocities” bag of yours, otherwise can we just enjoy the action without all the “holier than though” bullshit.

by sminer on Jan 23, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Gee sminer

Can’t you make a simple point without sounding like you’re attacking people?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 23, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Charming as always

When I talk of cycling “being better off” I’m certainly not referring to my feelings being hurt or me preaching some kind of higher moral for riders to live up to. My simple position is this: 1. Cycling has a huge doping-problem that is sucking the life out of the sport . 2. At the root of these problems is a large number of people who are profiting off providing athletes with illegal drugs. 3. The problem will never be solved until a large number of these parasites have been removed-.4. As long as riders abide by some bullshit , selfinvented code of “honor” and keep taking the blame for all the shit that goes on the parasites will be safe to continue making money. 5,. Therefore a confession from Basso and providing investigators with info that can lead to the dealers would have been in the best interest of cycling. His silence is of no value to me. Nor do I see any honor in the way he took his punishment.

If that makes me “holier than though” in your eyes that is really your problem.

by Jens on Jan 23, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I have to agree with Jens here

Must be that cold east wind blowing these past couple of days all the way from Sweden. Its my personal view that doping is not the root problem in cycling; its how the sport is/has been organized. Doping to me is a symptom. But symptoms do kill and how Basso and Leeky have been dealing with doping is quite distasteful at the least. There’s little honor in that team or in that rider.

by ursula on Jan 23, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

"There’s little honor in that team or in that rider."

That, I have no problem with and don’t disagree with.

by sminer on Jan 23, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Huh

I’m not sure I see the distinction between Jens saying “I have no trust for this team,” and ursula saying “there’s little honor in that team or in that rider.” The first you disagreed with, the second, you agree. But aren’t they much the same thing?

What am I missing?

by Jen See on Jan 23, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Those two comments yes...

But the distinction that I over-reacted to in Jens comment was what I saw here: " he had the chance to confess and take a new path but he went the old omerta way and took his punishment and kept his mouth shut". I read that to be overly judgemental towards Basso’s case which was a link to a doctor, not that he tested positive in a race. I saw the difference as ursula saying they don’t believe or trust Basso, and Jens saying that he was guilty and should have come all the way clean. I don’t believe Basso either but I’m not going to call him a doper either. Anyway, I over-reacted towards Jens comment and apologize for that.

by sminer on Jan 24, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Apology accepted, no worries

I know you are not alone in your non-puritanical view of how to relate to doping and I’m cool with that, it’s a personal preference.

And you did read my view on Basso absolutely correctly, I do call him a doper, I don’t buy his account of what he has done, I am offended that he would have me believe his Giro win (which I cheered loudly and cursed Gibo for questioning) was clean and I am pissed that he first made a sobbing confession saying he would own up to his mistakes and then ended up (doing the legally smart thing) only admitting to what was already proven by physical evidence.

by Jens on Jan 25, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

+1

are you telepathic or something? i must try to post something original and stop just agreeing with you :)

by nicknorco on Jan 23, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately, Carlström is riding for this team

and he will race the same schedule with Basso… Sigh
Here is the race schedule for Liquigas’ top riders
http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fi&u=http://www.feltet.dk/index.php3Fid_parent3D126id3D2826id_nyhed3D16942&sl=auto&tl=en

by Bruce Suomi on Jan 23, 2009 5:06 PM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Every sprint, every cobble, every mountain pass from the world of Pro Cycling

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Tv_at_tour_2_small
FSA DS - The Wacky Racers
Javino_small
Presenting PdC U-25 VDS 2012!

Recent FanPosts

Small
FSA DS For Dummies Continued....
Swisscheese_small
FSA-DS: The Value of Men's UCI Teams
Sorlin_small
FSA DS - Don't Forget the Frenchies !
Swedish_chef_small
An insight into the minds of Belgians
Picture_002_small
Techs / Mechs - a cheap sense of direction
White_unicorn_160_x_160_small
A friendly reminder... Don't use the c-word!
Small
Ohh Man, a Sprinter Showdown.
Small
Already dreaming of the Giro

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Another Cancer Survivor

Recent FanShots

London Track World Cup Previews
Mitch Docker talks about his Injury
Can it be Feb 25 already?
A frozen 'cross ride from this last weekend. As you may be aware we have had siberian conditions here in the UK with a low of -14 degrees centigrade here on saturday morning. It was a beautiful sunny morning so i layered up and set off for a snowy 'cross ride along a roman road. I checked the thermometer when i got back to find it had been -10 throughout the ride! I had a lot of fun though and the views were spectacular.
Oh come on
Cowmouflage - Walt "Clyde" Frazier raises the bar
9 to go! Are you ready?
Spanish government may sue French TV for doping skits
This is funny on so many levels. [Html should open bigger]
New 2012 World Tour stage race in China

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Editors

30102_394659898780_714513780_3911404_852720_n_small Chris Fontecchio

Espresso_cup_small Jen See