Back Pocket Previews: Saxo Bank
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 5, 2009 3:16 PM EST
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PrintI couldn't possibly love cycling enough to blog about it for a decade or so if it weren't truly a team sport. Maybe such concepts aren't as stunning to, say, a Japanese citizen raised on collective spirit, but in the individualistic United States, the sight of a group of people working together to overcome the favorites never fails to inspire me. As usual, I blame the media, which relentlessly sells us star quality and, seven years later, still can't figure out how the Patriots beat the Rams in the 2002 Super Bowl.
My hometown football biases are what makes me appreciate Saxo Bank, formerly IT Factory, formerly CSC, and forever known as Sexy Back. Riis Cycling has been relentlessly successful by any overall measure, holding an iron grip on the top ranking for years before Columbia got in the way last year. And yet, who is their biggest star? Ivan Basso? Briefly, but that was a lifetime ago. Carlos Sastre? Frank Schleck? Winners but not stars. Fabian Cancellara? More like it... but just. Riis Cycling wins by using a system, where the rider with the right qualities that day is given a great chance to win by his team. That rider can be any of a dozen guys, and the choice comes down to who can do the job best in the moment, not who's the face of the team. This was the New England Patriots, before Brady began dating supermodels. Heck, like the Pats Saxo Bank even has a leader in Riis whom everyone respects but loves to hate -- effectively deflecting pressure and attention away from the riders. No bullshit, no drama, just a group of guys committed to a winning system.
Attributes: I suppose Saxo Bank's real attribute -- the system -- has already been covered. More specifically, though, Riis has built a deep team which tends to have a few distinct benefits. One, you have a lot of cards to play when team tactics start dictating the race. Is today a good cobbles race for Kroon? Then get Jens Voigt, the Sorensens and Van Goolen to drive the tempo. Is the Tour headed to the Alps? Put Cancellara on the front with O'Grady, Arvesen and McCartney until the Schlecks or Larsson are ready to attack. Just wave after wave. Two, this approach yields a lot of opportunity in the finale, particularly in the spring Classics, where every race is a small war of attrition, and every week features three or four more of these grinds. Riis' guys may not start the day as shining favorites, but they're almost certain to have a handful of guys hanging around, sniffing out a win.
Problems: Riis has yet to find a top-end sprinter. Breschel may yet be that guy, but my money's not on JJ Haedo. In general it seems as though Riis is reluctant to find a sprinter for the Tour, because it wastes precious roster spots needed to implement his overall GC plan. I'm not sure this is a problem so much as a choice. Another problem would be Frank Schleck's brush with the law, if only because every mention of doping at Saxo Bank immediately dredges up the Basso mess and Riis' own past. Then there's the disappearance of IT Factory from the sponsor rolls. On just about every other team, such matters would barely register as problems.
Key Rider: On a team of steady, known quantities, it's hard to pick out a guy who could carry the team beyond expectations. Everybody knows that Andy Schleck is taking the reins at the Tour, in place of the departed champion Sastre. But while he probably won't beat the Astana guys, there is little doubt in his fitness for the job. So, IMHO what could really make Saxo Bank's season is Matti Breschel: can he take his win in Madrid (last Vuelta stage) and join the fray of grand tour sprints? It's a tall order, but he's 24 and coming into his own. Riis has signed a couple track guys in Rasmussen and Morkov to bolster the sprint squad. Another possible breakthrough could come from Alexandr Kolobnev, a consistent winner in the fall races who could maybe do something more substantial in the Ardennes.
Key Moment(s): Fabian Cancellara at the Tour of Flanders. With wins in MSR and Paris-Roubaix, de Ronde is Tony Spartacus' bete noir, and one of the few huge races on the planet that no Riis rider has won. I'll probably spend another dozen gigabytes this spring on why Cancellara can never be the favorite for Flanders, but he specializes in shockers, and makes no secret of his desire to win this race.
Passing Thought: I would love to know the answer to this question: what do pro cyclists value more, finishing second or helping a teammate finish first? Obviously there's some variety in the responses, but I'm pretty sure the Riis boys would choose the latter, as demonstrated at the Tour. I'm equally sure that the Columbia kids would make the same choice, mostly, even Cavendish seems devoted to his teammates. These are the top two teams in the sport. In fact, this attitude seems more prevalent than not, even in some corners of Team Astana. I don't know if this is Riis' legacy or something more long-term, but there is no question that the CSC era made a strong statement about how to win.
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Kolobnev in the Ardennes?
That’s hoping Bruseghin is winning the Giro…. on a Donkey
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
You are just grumpy because he didn't produce at this level at Rabo :-)
I tend to agree with you though. If he was going to win there we would have seen some glimmer of it by now.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Maybe
But why is he so strong in Italy? I guess I’m failing to appreciate the difference between climbing at Lombardia and at Liege.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 5, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think he needs a lot of competition in his legs..
And Jens. That isn’t (totally) true.. He did fairly well in the race in his time by Rabobank.. Most of the time he was their strongest guy..
But it’s frustating to see Rabo, once again, let a pretty good cyclist go off too soon .. Walker won his first race in 4 years yesterday.. Where did he race last 3 year.. Indeed by Rabo.. Now? By Fitjis-something.. Somehow they can get the right way to let the cyclist ride well
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
Switching to Rabo
I’ve hinted recently at how much I love their roster, with all the young Dutch talent around. But can you explain how they work as a team? From my distant view, it seems like they’re still pretty dysfunctional.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 5, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly..
I don’t know.. But always if I look to their results I think:
I would be a better manager..
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
Quote from CN
"Last year’s sensation, Robert Gesink, 22, who finished seventh overall in the Vuelta a Espana, is scheduled to make his Tour de France debut this year. He is also expected to scout out the Tour climbs, although not necessarily with Menchov. "
Rabo= 25 guys riding in the same jersey but not necessarily with any type of cordination or common goal. I think this kind of old school teams will become dinosaurs as teams with a strategy, like Columbia, Garmin, Saxo and Astana, become ever more dominant.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Yeah, I've seen their tem presentation and they figurded that out too
Points they take to become more of a team:
1 Their 30 cyclist are gonna train in teams. So one for the springsclassic, a TdF squad, etc. I will sort them out if someone like to know that.
2 The coaches get a coach how help them to become a coach.. So they are gonna focus more on the mental aspect.
So their heading to something..
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
You make the diference about Italy and other regions
i think the difference is most about the timing. In last years his top fitness is after July, at least I think his results confirm that.
About winning the Ardennes…..i think not. He is the same level that Kroon, some top10 in big classics, some victories in HCs, and others…no more that. Ok maybe he could win thanks to his team and friendship attitude.
When i seem him in World Championship 07, i was curious to see how would run his season, but my conclusion is: “at the same level than before”…..so not much hope for him.
About CSC, i think will be one more year with Cancellara’s wins. Frank will be at podium at least one of the Ardennes, Andy top 10 in Tour, Breschel maybe better than last year but not much….so for big wins remains Cancellara.
Ok, with CSC and his attitude my chance to guess is much lower….i hope so.
Sounds
about right.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 6, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Could easily
swap Kolobnev for CA Sorensen, but what’s his role in 2009?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 5, 2009 4:10 PM EST reply actions
He's on the preliminary Tour roster
He will have a light schedule aimed at a peak to ride support in the Ardennes followed by riding Romandy with the opportunity to go for a result for himself there. After that a buildup period aimed at a Tour start if his form is as it has been in previous years. Not much chance of glory at the Tour, first time and a definite mountain domestique role.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Sorry. Forgot to say, info is from danish-media interviews
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Good.
I was wondering how C.A. was stepping up this year and what you describe is a sane course of action for the kid. I do hope he goes for Romandie and I hope that we see a bunch of young ’uns there as well- Mollema, Dekker, Kreuziger, Brajkovic, etc. Fun.
Which
brings me back to my original point: if you’re looking for surprise results, Breschel and Kolobnev are the best bets. Sorensen seems to be in building mode this year, except maybe at Romandie.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 5, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Breschel is a good catch..
But Bellis, Fugslang and Goss are the oother one for the surprises.. Goss already beat Boonen in the sprint. Fugslang very talented, talented don’t know his age. And the cycling season is to far away to remember Bellis well.. But it wss a nice transfer at that time
Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.
very interested in goss
I’m looking forward to seeing what he can do this season.
And Breschel? So close to a big result. Any day now.
I like CA Sorensen...
I was glued to the Vuelta in 2007 and that boy put in some serious work for Sastre along with favorite of mine. Seriously good things in his future if played timely. :-)
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
speaking of Kolobnev
how many VDS points is he? For some reason I can’t find him on the spreadsheet…. is my find function having a brainfart or what…
He was left off
but will be on the final one we’ll roll out this week.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 6, 2009 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
gracias!
wow, there’s another one ;) I’ll look forward to v 2.0
Sexy- #1 with a bullet
That Sexy was soooooo far ahead of Columbia in the VDS competition, and beat out Columbia in CQ makes them #1 in my book. If one is comparing teams one has to look at the whole team rather than just individual winners IMO.
Another area of weakness?
Riis’ disinterest in sprinters aside, the one area that Sexy seems to be weak in is the Grand Tours. Think about it. Last year they absolutely dominated the Tour, yes- and they will put a great effort there again this year, win or lose. They won’t be a pushover there. But aside from Sastre’s solo performance at the Vuelta they did practically nothing in either the Vuelta or Giro. And now Sastre’s gone.
They have one about to blossom GT stud in Andy Schleck. Brother Frank to me is more of an Ardennes/ one week stage guy like Kim Kirchen. He will be big support to Andy but I can’t see him winning any GT in his career. Then you have possible future GT guy CA Sorensen, a couple of years away. Other than that the cupboard is bare which is why I can understand Riis talking to Cancellara about reinventing himself into a GT guy.
There are a bunch of decent support guys for a GT but other than Frank, the rest of the support isn’t capable of really fighting it out in the mountains- much like Cadel Evans’ support. Even Cadel now has a match to Frank in Dekker (probably). So if Basso has a successful return to cycling I’d put Sexy at #3 in the Grand Tour teams behind Astana and Liquigas. You could argue that Rabobank could pass them by this year too.
They won't contest the Giro or Vuelta
but if all they have is Andy Schleck, there are at least 17 other teams drooling at the thought of trading places with them.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 5, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
It's a weakness I love
They sacrifice 3-GT-dominance for being able to be competitive in all types of races. I’d hate to be an Astana-fan in Apil or a QS-fan in any other month than April.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Ahhh
But that’s the thing- other teams don’t sacrifice Classic competitiveness for GT aspirations. Astana I agree goes too far to GT dominance. Basically you got …. hmm… what you guys are saying…. I think I’ll write a new post so this post sticks with giving due to a great team.
WoW
I love PdC, you see i don’t think about all this stuff when it comes to cycling, it may come eventually (or maybe i need to change my thinking).. But it is interesting reading..
I’ll be glad just to see the Sexybank guy’s back riding, and looking forward to seeing Jens! back in australia…
and as long as i can catch up with Fabian and Frank in april, I’m easily happy… (well being there with Benna will make me smile too).
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
See
Now that’s what a real comment looks like…
thanks!
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 6, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
...how much did you pay Steno to type that?
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
A little less praise from here.
"In fact, this attitude seems more prevalent than not, even in some corners of Team Astana. "
Seems? Speaking about CSC and Columbia, which you state to be the two best teams in the sport as if it is a fact rather than an opinion, you also make it sound like they have figured out something the other teams haven’t… sacrifice the team for the win. And about Bruyneel’s team you say that it “seems” like they race this way. “Seems” you say about the most dominate team in stage racing which is all about team work and sacrifice for the strongest guy in order to win the overall. Looks like clouded judgement prevails at PdC once again, and that’s not the same as a difference of opinion.
But thanks for acknowledging that Cance is the king of “shockers”, because I assure you that more are coming this year. And after your comment about him at Flanders, I will be rooting for him every k.
C'mon everone
I know it will be hard to stop calling them CSC, but CSC are no longer a team…. It’s SaxoBank or if you like what we at PdC call them SexyBank.. It’s like being divorced, going back to your maiden name, and everyone still calls you your married name… OUCH!!
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
"Seems"
is my way of saying that I haven’t been invited to too many Astana team meetings lately. Also, how many teams have had their leader cast aspersions on his main lieutenant lately? Oh, sorry, I must have made that up too.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 6, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Invites
Oh and you’ve been to SaxoBank (for you CycleGirl) and Comlubia team meetings? I thought it was pretty clear you were using past accomplishments to praise Riis, so the “seems” was pretty clear in it’s usage.
And don’t get so cheeky with your “Oh, sorry, I must have made that up too.” comments when raising doubts with such outdated material. I think those aspersions have since been laid to rest. Sure, I think there is the potential for some disharmony come TdF time in the Astana camp, but I don’t think it’s going to affect the GC outcome. Besides, I think the way Bruyneel’s teams have raced show they understand as well or better than any other team the goal you were attributing to Riis and CSC (intentional because I’m speaking of the past).
puhleez
You’re the one telling me to “unwad” today. I can’t get cheeky when someone tells me to unwad?
I’m not disputing that Bruyneel was able to sell the team concept on his past squads, and if you look only at Leipheimer’s actions, you can make an argument that Bruyneel has sold the concept to his current team. But it seems a little convenient for you, defending Astana, to say that the concerns have been laid to rest about Contador and Lance. Contador’s interview said an awful lot, and the fact that they’ve since made nice in public is a fairly obvious PR move, the authenticity of which is anyone’s guess. Simoni and Cunego had lots of friendly photo shoots and interviews in 2005, after all, and it was complete bullshit.
When you have two grand tour champions on one team, in the same race, the conflicts are almost inevitable. So I don’t see why it’s so unreasonable for me to assume that Astana, while showing some positive signs of cohesion, are not out of the woods for the ’09 Tour. Hence, “seems”.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 6, 2009 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
more better
That’s a much better defence of your use of “seems”. And I mentioned they were not out of the woods too. But it’s not a matter of who the team leader is going to be for the TdF, it’s a matter of the teams goals. Wasn’t this all about a team valuing helping a teammate finish first, not which teammate? Doesn’t what Bruyneel has done and recently said show that they are this type of team? Can you doubt that they will go to the Tour with a strong team that is there to sacrifice for a teammate to achieve the ultimate prize? I don’t think that changes if Lance happens to be close enough to Contador when the big ITT comes along and he takes the yellow from him there. I would have loved it had Levi done that at the Vuelta.
Well
I harbor some doubts, not because Bruyneel won’t assemble a team in that manner, but because if there is any internal question about who the leader is, it tends to cause division all over the team. The problem isn’t usually limited to the top, and doesn’t always come out until halfway through the race. At least, that’s what happened to LeMond, and I believe Roche too?
As for your compliment, which I appreciate, I think it bears repeating that blogs are often an endless set of first drafts. I don’t say everything as clearly or precisely as I should in the post, though the nice thing is that I can count on someone making me clean it up in the comment thread.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Jan 6, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
I think there is a distinction in team(spirit) (for lack of a better word)
between Saxo/Columbia and Astana. On Astana there is a much clearer distinction between riders that are paid to win and riders who are paid to work. Saxo and Columbia frequently come to races with several potential winners/captains and more often than not produce exemplary teamwork anyway. Astana did this too in the Vuelta with Bert and Levi as far as I could see but then Bert goes to the press only days after, claiming the opposite with his “not natural”-comment about Levi. I’d say the jury is still out on the cohesiveness on Astana
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
Astana
I’d say they have a definite team strategy but compared to Saxo definitely they are more top down as you basically say here. Columbia is between the two. Garmin? I’m not sure of where they fit on this spectrum. That’s just my imressions, of course.
Sastre
Something about the Riis / Sastre / Schlecks thing at the TdF and post-TdF business smelled wrong to me. Sastre – thumbs up. CSC/Saxo – thumbs down.
There has been a long back and forth between Sastre and Riis in the danish press.
Obviously the teamwork wasn’t nearly as friction-free as it was portrayed. If you ask Riis, Sastre became too selfcentred in 2008 and broke the basic groundrule on CSC that the best man on th day shall have his chance and the support of the team by demanding beforehand that everyone sacrifice their ambitions in his favour. He also refused ride the same program as the rest of the Tour-squad and Riis failed to see in time the rift that was developing between Sastre and the Schlecks.
Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets
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