Podium Cafe: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Backing the Pack for NC State Fans!


spread the word

Priorities, Part Two: Three Regions

Priorities, Part One- Grand Tours here.

Season VDS totals of the teams here.

WARNING!!! Numbers- lots of 'em!- follow!!!!!!  

So with the Grand Tour post done with, we'll now look at three major cycling countries and the major races they hold. Belgium, Italy, and Spain. How did the teams do in those regions and can numbers back up what our impressions tell us about the unique flavor of pro cycling in each region? More importantly can numbers tell us something new, or just shamelessly lie about the whole mess?

In future posts I'll delve deeply into each region; here I'm contrasting the regions. On the flip I'll start with a dreaded table but before I get to that, a word about the regions I'm neglecting.

France- This is the tough region to neglect but I'm taking a cue from what Chris wrote a week or so ago. May French VDS races are more world events than French regional events. The Tour is totally a world event but so is the Dauphine and Paris-Nice. Paris-Roubaix I'm including in Belgium while Paris-Tours is so vanilla to me that it could be anywhere.  Still it's a judgement call but I'm going with the idea that to get the full flavor of French pro cycling you have top go to the Coupe races, which fly below the VDS radar mostly.

I realize that this slights the French teams. However its interesting to see what French teams do elsewhere. One other team that leaving France out of this study messes with is Garmin, at least last year. As you'll slowly see Garmin did very very little outside of France last year. That will probably change-somewhat, this year. At least Garmin better hope it will.

Germany/Eastern Europe- So much time, so few races. Hopefully Germany will become a real pro cycling region again.

Okay. One more thing on definition of Regions.

- Belgium means all the VDS cobbles races, including Paris-Roubaix, plus the Ardennes trio, including Amstel, plus the later two stage races, Ster Elektroer, and Eneco/Benelux. There are 20,530 VDS points up for grabs.

-Spain means the three single day races, the four week stage races, and the Vuelta. Racers compete for 17,929 VDS points.

- Italy means the one week-long stage race, the five single day races, and the Giro. 19,406 VDS points for the taking.

Jump!

Star-divide

So. On to the comparative list:

CategoryBelgiumItalySpain
Total VDS Points 20530 19406 17929
# of teams winning points 30 26 30
Points won by non PT teams 2815 5387 2061
% points won by non PT teams 13.7% 27.8% 11.4%
Points won- top 5 all teams 10005 8358 9273
% points won top 5 points all teams 48.7% 43.1% 51.7%
Points won- top 10 all teams 15265 14303 13899
% points won top 10 points all teams 74.4% 73.7% 77.5%
Best team, points won 2450 2215 3315
Best team, % points won 11.9% 11.4% 18.5%

Such a little table! No worries: just you wait! BTW, "PT" means Pro Tour teams last year. 

So anything interesting so far?

% points won by non PT teams.  Notice how Italy has so many more non-pro tour teams getting results. We'll look more at that in the Italy post but to me it shows how much Italian talent that does not cross its borders. This is aggravated to be sure by ASO's exclusion of LPR last year but even still the national nature of Italian races is more pronounced than the other regions. Or, to put it another way, the regional teams of Belgium and Spain suck more.

% points won top 5 points all teams. The top five teams in each region:

Belgium: Saxo (2450), Quickstep (2305- hear the gnashing of teeth?), Rabobank (1935 (more gnashing), Columbia (1715), *Lotto (1600- a whole lot of wailing going on!)

Italy: Liquigas (2215), CSF (1815), Saxo (1657), Astana (1815), and Columbia (1306)

Spain: Astana (3315), Caisse d'Epargne (2375), Eustatel! (1230), Saxo (1180), Cofidis! (1173).

This "Italian regional teams are better" meme is again brought out in this category which shows that Italian races are less dominated by the very best (read multinational) pro tour teams. 

What's also interesting here is that there are fewer teams winning points in Italian races than the other two regions (26 vs 30 for the other two regions), so you might say that there's a bigger drop-off in quality from the good non PT Italian teams (LPR, CSF, A&S, Barloworld, Tinkoff, big inhale Serramenti PVC Diquigionanni-Androni Giocattoli, and Ceramica Flaminia and the rest then there is in Spain and Belgium.

Notice though in the next category, the top 10 teams, the regions basically even out.

- Notice that the best team in Spain won a lot more points relative, than the other two regions. The #1 teams in each region are Spain-Astana, Belgium-Saxo, Italy-Liquigas. I think that this is because Spain's VDS races are mostly stage races- red meat to Astana, while the other two regions are single day racing orientated which spreads out the winners more. If you take the Giro and Vuelta out of Spain and Italy un-respectively, you get: 

 

CategorySpain w/o VueltaItaly w/o Giro
Total VDS Points 8791 8758
# of teams winning points 30 23
Points won by non PT teams 1466 3036
% points won by non PT teams 16.8% 34.7%
Points won- top 5 all teams 4165 4731
% points won top 5 points all teams 47.4% 54%
Points won- top 10 all teams 6343 7562
% points won top 10 points all teams 72.2% 86.3%
Best team, points won 1080 1517
Best team, % points won 12.3% 17.3%

So here Italy's uniqueness is even more pronounced: the good non PT teams are seriously competitive here. On the other hand the top teams, pro tour or no, really compete/dominate in the non Grand Tour races. 

Other odds and ends:

- Aqua & Sapone. I was surprised at how competitive they are in each region. But that just points out that the Italian non-PT teams travel better than the non PT teams based in Spain, Belgium, or France as you rarely see the later countries' non-PT teams doing squat anywhere outside their home regions. (VDS tip!)

-Cofidis. I was happy to see how well Cofidis did in Spain. 1173 points, 5th best, just behind Saxo. They earned points in five of the eight races so it wasn't just Moncoutie running off and hiding with the KOM Vuelta jersey. Of course this year... no Nuyens, no Chavanel the better, no Monfort, no Scheirlinckx, etc. etc. etc.

- Saxo, which won the most VDS points overall, had the highest average ra nking within the three regions at 2.67. The top top in average ranking: 

Saxo- 2.67

Quickstep- 5

3 (tie) Liquigas- 6.33

3. (tie) Columbia- 6.33

5. (tie) Astana 6.67

5. (tie) Lampre 6.67

7. Caisse d'Epargne- 7.33

8. Rabobank- 7.67

9. Gerolsteiner- 10

10. *Lotto- 10.33

Of course average ranking is in many cases here highly misleading because the differences between one and ten in any region is huge.

Back to work. More later.

 

 

0 recs | Comment 14 comments | Share on Facebook Digg!

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

How dare you

Let Belgium annex Holland! It should have been the other way around!!!

by Lopex on Jan 9, 2009 3:53 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shhh!

The Dutch don’t know yet!

by ursula on Jan 9, 2009 4:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

French races

To me, the GP Plouay is a very French race. After that, I don’t know. It’s a hard thing to define: originally they consisted of these completely mad out-and-back marathons like Paris-Brest et Retour, some 1200km. Then they created Paris-Roubaix, only to see it adopted rather forcefully by Belgians. Then the Tour de France, which was French for a while but obviously that’s been invaded by everyone. So maybe Plouay and the Coupe are the heart of French racing?

Wisdom from actual French people would be of use here.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Jan 9, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Best line

“the regional teams of Belgium and Spain suck more”

Nice one. Or, more tactfully, Italy has a deeper bench. Nah, I like your way better.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Jan 9, 2009 6:03 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other explanation

All the big guys how ride in Belgium can do that in one month. They start in Omloop het Volk and end in Parijs-Roubaix. Because the combination is working to buil;d your form to Parijs-Roubaix there are more big guys how are really motivated to ride that month on cobbles. The Italien race are, I think, whole the year. So the big guys are not really focussing on them. But it can be all rubbish because I don’t knoiw which races are included. Secondly. I have to take a look at the Tour of Belgium what the comparison is between PT and non-PT.

But ver nice Ursula.. As usual

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jan 10, 2009 1:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok.. I examined the Tour of Belgium..

I hope you have a quicker way to do that else it must have tak you houers to finish this..
But here are the stats: (Hope it all went ok with the mathematacis)

Total VDS points: 860
winnig teams: 13
Points won by non PT: 332
Percentage: 38,6%
Points won by Belgium: 408
Percentage: 47,44%
Points won by best team (qst): 171
Percentage: 19,8% (Sil 19,2%)

Some say the best things in life, are one the inside.

by Frinking on Jan 10, 2009 7:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Probably something to that.

There are Italian races running all year. Also, Italian racing, because of the terrain, seems to select for more well-rounded riders, and for a greater variety of rider talents. You have a lot of guys like Cunego and Bettini who can climb and sprint, pure sprinters, pure climbers, blah blah. There are races for everyone. There simply aren’t too many Belgian climbers – Monfort and van Huffel are the two I can think of immediately. Quick, how many Italian climbers can you name? Lots.

by gavia on Jan 11, 2009 7:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ursula, there really is something kind of freakish about you

(and now I’m off to study these numbers in depth)

Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets

by Jens on Jan 10, 2009 4:47 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You silly Geat!

Next post will be an updating of the Annals of Fulda.

TAKE IT TO THE HOUSE!

by ursula on Jan 10, 2009 3:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ha Ha Ha

My thoughts exactly. I like this post but the more I read it the more I feel out of my depth trying to pick a VDS team on scientific grounds. Cyclegirl seems to have aleady claimed the best butts approach so I may go for colours, favourite vowels, or most euphonious surname.

by Monty. on Jan 11, 2009 1:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LoL and I have my team

Only problem i’m one point over and not sure which Rear I don’t want…

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950

by CycleGirl on Jan 11, 2009 7:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is there such a thing?

Carlos Sastre - Tour de France winner - Born From Jets

by Jens on Jan 12, 2009 5:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes, maybe..hehehe

We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950

by CycleGirl on Jan 13, 2009 7:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Every sprint, every cobble, every mountain pass from the world of Pro Cycling
Start posting on Podium Cafe »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Tuco_1_small
ROAD RACE: Nat'l Champ. Repository
Unicorn_160_x_160_facing_other_way_small
VDS: National Championship Bonus Points

Recent FanPosts

Jim_small
The Pursuit of Green
Small
The Tour de France Stage 2
J0397446_small
Versus live streaming?
Small
Giro Donne – Stage 3
Small
Tour de France Stage 1
Small
Giro Donne – Stage 2 Time Trial
Small
Giro Donne – Stage 1
Small
MY OPINION ON THE TOUR DE FRANCE
Bowling_small
I have a strong feeling how Versus coverage is going to go
Small
Giro Donne – Opening Prologue

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

Our Sponsors!

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Greipel gets win 11
Jamie Barrow wins Maratona dles Dolomites
"Cancellara will be top five"
A Tour de France Primer (for Americans)
Best Tweet Ever: And It is By Brad Wiggins!
Kim Kirchen (Team Columbia-HTC) Recovers from Broken Collarbone in Time to Ride the Tour de France.
Theo Bos suspended 1 month
Joe Parkin, "6 Years in a Rain Cape"
Pearl Izumi parody of cycling controversies, this one focusing on the what-ifs of performance enhancing clothing.
This video is an attempt to show the ambience at the final hour of the Nice Ironman competition. A lame attempt i'll admit, but wth? If you're ever going to finish towards the end of an ironman, i suggest Nice as the place to do it. The applause and support and general ambience at the end is really remarkable. Dj's, pom-pom girls, people dancing, shouting, dance music blasting ... Some finishers just go on through, others raise their arms or just have a huge smile, one guy did some pushups while the dj counted for him, another did a cartwheel, some ran through with their little kids holding their hands. And this all 8 hours after the winners have finished. 

When i went out my door to walk over to see the last hour or so of the Ironman, the first thing i saw was a guy across the street, pushing his triathlon bike, head hanging down to his chest, walking with a pronounced. Painful. Slow. Trudge. Medal around his neck. He'd done well. Hope he felt better the next day.

Then i got to the promenade and started seeing more of the people who'd finished: one guy asleep on the pavement with his wife by his side in all the raucous noise and confusion and crowds everywhere. Then the medical tent - massages, those heat blanket thingies, oxygen, people limping aorund, Oy! 

Then every now and then you see a finisher with a medal around their neck who look fresh as a daisy, like they've just had a nice walk in the park.

Then finally you get to the finish line ... and that's the video. At the end there's a fireworks display (no one timed their finish to coincide with it this year) and then apparently a few hundred people stayed all night to party on the prom next to the beach until daybreak.

I could not do an ironman even if i wanted to, but i'll be there again next year to help welcome the last finishers in.

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini