Tour of California shaping up Official route details tomorrow.
by flying dog on Oct 21, 2009 12:59 PM EDT
64 comments
"Steephill.tv":http://www.steephill.tv/tour-of-california/ has the links, maps and other stories and details while we can expect the official announcement tomorrow at 10:00am local time.
As a side note Clovis, after a successful first year hosting a stage will be left out this time. There is an interesting story about how having the event was very much appreciated on many levels, and the money was nice too. Story is linked at steephill and "here.":http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/1680832.html
Contrast that story with what the politicians have done in Greenville, SC host of the last couple of national championship races. Rather than reward the events that are bringing in large amounts of revenue they are funneling cash to pet projects. Story"here":http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20091021/NEWS/910210340/1004/NEWS01&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL
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Thank you for tolerating my ineptness, links below.
by flying dog on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yosemite
Was on their wish list, apparently, but one of the blogs that Steephill links to says that they were not allowed to race into a national park due to rules forbidding races with prize money. Too bad. That would have been gorgeous.
by Jimbo... on Oct 21, 2009 2:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed - seems short-sighted
Yosemite views would really appeal to Euro skeptics
Moo
by Willj on Oct 21, 2009 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
The insane shit people try to do in National Parks is endless. So the Park Service has some draconian rules to cover things. Not ideal in this case but I totally understand.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Oct 21, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the idea was to parade through the park like they did on the Amgen Golden Gate Bridge last year.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 21, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as seeing Yosemite might be great
it would be a travesty to take a big bike race through a national park (IMHO)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 21, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so the ToB ought not to be going through the Peaks next year? ;-)
(Doubt very much it will be anyway but that’s another story…)
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 7:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Peaks is a national park
then I say no, but hey, you live there. National Parks are ‘made’ for a reason and they should be sacred. 150 riders with lackies and fans in Yosemite is a great way to undo good work, apart from the fact of the hypocrisy of many cyclists who ride because it’s kinder to the environment.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 7:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm being slightly disingenuous because British national parks are rather different.
Something like the Peak District‘s largely a manmade environment (no real wildernesses here, though bits of it seem wild enough). They’re also places where people live & work, so economically something like a bike race can be a good thing to do. As long as you pick up your litter, that is.
Certainly the Giro has been through Italian national parks; I don’t know about the Tour or whether they even have national parks in France.
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the national parks are
like what you say for britain and italy – and yeah the tour goes through them.
by yeehoo on Oct 22, 2009 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
personallyn I think that national or regional parks are made for Bike races
the key is having some sort of common sense clean up strategy.
As yeehooh says, pretty much all the Tour climbs are through regional or national preserves.
The Tour takes a few obvious steps to keeps things clean.
For example, on the busy stretches like a big climb, garbage bags/containers are placed along the route beforehand
And after a race there is some sort of volunteer group that cleans up garbage.
Moo
by Willj on Oct 22, 2009 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willj, I don't know what to say
Clearing up rubbish/trash doesn’t fix the natural habitat you just destroyed. Bikes races are great, but they come with humans and technology like cars attached.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well parks like yosemite
have tons of cars, huge traffic jams and everything else anyway. But that being said i think i’d still side with not letting the bike race through. There are tons of great natural areas and mountains and passes and forests in california without going through yosemite. Not that they will use any of those, but …
They should move the toc to august – between the tour and the vuelta – all the sierra nevada passes would be open. The kids would be on vacation – lots more tourists around to watch the race, …
by yeehoo on Oct 22, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds like a good idea ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 8:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for fire season.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 22, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but again, I'd question whether those parks are truly unspoilt natural wildernesses that any intervention despoils irreparably
or whether they are active, working places, in some degree man-made & that actually, in the scheme of things a bike race is not that big a deal, especially not when compared with some of the alternatives. Why, for instance, were there roads up some of these mountains in the first place?
In countries where there is so much more land and comparatively so few people, where there is something approaching a true wilderness, then maybe it is & should be a different story
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have roads and camp grounds in some national parks but they're fairly heavily policed
Bike races come with fans who stand OFF the road and that’s part of the issue.
Our wilderness areas are a source of great satisfaction and pride that at least some things will be preserved…
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Natural habitat? Huh.
I think national parks in Europe are mainly instituted to keep things more or less they way they are, to keep new development out. All of them have roads or trails crisscrossing them. Almost nowhere in Europe is there still true wilderness. Also, over here national parks are quite a bit smaller than Yellowstone et al.
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have both sorts
but they’re luxuries many of us would like to see preserved ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Google map link below
gives a view of some of the bigger parks in France.
I think tedvdw is correct though, national parks I think in general – in France/Switzerland at least – are more about zoning and preventing further development.
Moo
by Willj on Oct 22, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of ours are a bit like that
but in cities we call them Green Belts.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to be difficult but I don't understand
what destruction?
generally people are just beside the roads.
I can only talk from personal experience, but places like Galibier are beuatiful remote wilderness often inundated by the Tour, and I don’t see an adverse effects at all.
Moo
by Willj on Oct 22, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're also in high country
Most national parks here are in temperate climates where vegetation and animal habitats come right up to the road. It’s probably a moot point anyway, but in the majority Australian national parks there is bush right to the edge of the road, so nowhere for spectators.
Without an essay, i would say personally that I think the effects would be detrimental, but I have no doubt that others will disagree.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
we don’t disagree regarding the idea that a race isn’t worth it if it causes a bunch of habitat damage.
the question is whether it would or not – which I guess depends on where exactly we are talking about.
Moo
by Willj on Oct 22, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I think location is probably the key
although philosophically, I would probably be against bike races in any national parks. (Old tree hugger. Can’t help it). I live next to a marine national park and i’d hate anything to hurt that either ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would probably be against bike races in any national parks.
but then you are against any Tour stages in the Alps and Pyrennées ?
Moo
by Willj on Oct 22, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...in any Australian national parks
I can’t speak for anywhere else ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't the biggest complaint about litter this year (or at least one I heard...)
come from some of the municipalities along the Paris-Roubaix route?
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
slightly off topic, but maybe of interest:
many French amateur cyclosportives (i.e. big events that anyone can enter)
have riders/volunteers that police littering by riders
Moo
by Willj on Oct 22, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rubbish is easily removed,
but ensuring that people stay within boundaries etc is problematic.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, we now have the so-called "right to roam" so...
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with drinking spectators ...excellent
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We fought for those rights & actually, my experience is that even for bike races, people in the Peak Park are generally very respectful of their obligations because of them.
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted to say 'disingenuous' but I thought being serious would be safer
The Peaks District has already had to compromise and watching the ToB there would be lovely ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not so much that it's had to compromise, more that it is what is
But yeah, the last time it went over the Snake was ace. It also means that you get some half decent hills, though I’m not sure the organizers altogether want that. It’s hard though because ToB stages are largely defined by regional development agency areas (they have the cash) & a stage in the Peak Park would generally cross the borders of one or two.
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 7:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
people have been living here since way before anyone ever thought of the idea of a national park
by yeehoo on Oct 22, 2009 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We occasionally have little enclaves, but as a general rule
our national parks are without permanent populations.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's interesting
so were people forced out to create the parks, or were the park areas uninhabited to begin with?
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Usually almost uninhabited,
although in some there are roads through to little beaches etc. as you can imagine, there were plenty of spaces with little or no habitation. We even have national parks in Sydney ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
definitely the concept
of national parks between the “new world” and old world countries is quite different. In the U.S. (and i take it australia is similar) the parks were mainly uninhabited (we’re talking uninhabited by white european ancestry people – why should only they matter? well, uh, …… there are those who have guns and those who dig?) and were created as areas to be protected from human development. Actually i guess that’s similar to europe except in europe they are just stopping/reducing modern development rather than sort of trying to exclude people entirely.
Point is in the new world parts there is this idea of pure, raw, untouched by the human hand nature, which you really don’t see much here in europe. And the parks are so supposed to protect that – although people are always fighting over it still.
by yeehoo on Oct 22, 2009 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're not much for guns here... except for shooting feral animals like pigs
or culling kangaroo populations. We have the luxury of not much space and many people. that said, our indigenous tribes are still fighting hard for native title in many places. That of course is about the vexed question of who has the right: those whose spirits and culture reside there or those who cultivated the land.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bugger! thanks Ted! Not many people, lots of space... sigh
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Oct 22, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The story about Clovis mentions three factors that prevented the okiedokie.
One concern was the timing just before Memorial Day and that road closures would have interfered with some vacationers plans and as a twist on your point the consideration was that it might imply favoritism towards Amgen (Don’t you think Amgen every time you see or cross the Golden Gate Bridge?). Also the damages from so many people parking and reveling on the roadsides. In other words they were just excuses not to have the race there.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 21, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this race starting in the Netherlands
like all the other Tours?
Moo
by Willj on Oct 21, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nevada City has an International House of Pancakes
Does that count?
by Jimbo... on Oct 21, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps...
the start will be considered by some as the nether region or bowels of CA?
(okay, it’s not as funny as i thought it would be, but i’m posting anyway for the entertainment of the ball busting posts that will follow – i deserve it)
by Yakko on Oct 21, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will miss Solvang
Also there is very little coast in this route. Meh, it’s a big state.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Oct 21, 2009 9:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bleah
With so many beautiful, challenging roads in California, they choose to spend so much of the race in the Central Valley? I was hoping for some serious Sierra Nevada action.
by tgartner on Oct 22, 2009 1:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whatevah
no one is going to be watching anyway. It’s the same time as the Giro
by Jens on Oct 22, 2009 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But.. But Lance is riding in California!
by Frinking on Oct 22, 2009 4:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course he is..
It’s all in the marketing
by Frinking on Oct 22, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be watching...
but maybe not the Visalia to Bakersfield stage.
And I don’t quite see why they thought it was a good idea to go head-to-head with the Giro.
Yeah, the February weather was godawful, but it gave the race a distinct identity.
by tgartner on Oct 22, 2009 4:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you kidding? It'll be like watching a double feature every day for a week.
ToC won’t start until Giro stage is finished and people have refueled, or tried to get maybe a little bit of work done to please the paycheck gods and of course their boss.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 22, 2009 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forget about the 9h time difference
Watch Giro stage finish, switch seamlessly to ToC start.
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It needed to be said, no matter how many times.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 22, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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