2010 Tour of California Route Announcement
by Chris... on Oct 22, 2009 10:39 AM EDT
in News
205 comments
Due any moment now... Use this open thread to discuss.
Here's the stage list from the Amgen Tour of Cali site.
1. Stage 1: Sunday, May 16 – Nevada City to Sacramento
2. Stage 2: Monday, May 17 – Davis to Santa Rosa
3. Stage 3: Tuesday, May 18 – San Francisco to Santa Cruz
4. Stage 4: Wednesday, May 19 – San Jose to Modesto
5. Stage 5: Thursday, May 20 – Visalia to Bakersfield
6. Stage 6: Friday, May 21 – Pasadena to Big Bear Lake
7. Stage 7: Saturday, May 22 – Los Angeles (individual time trial)
8. Stage 8: Sunday, May 23 – Thousand Oaks/Westlake Village/Agoura Hills
Despite some suggestions to the contrary, Lance Armstrong has confirmed that he will ride the Tour of California, and skip the Giro d'Italia. Levi Leipheimer and David Zabriskie are also confirmed as of today.
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Official press conference is at 10AM Pacific Time.
but the route is to be “leaked” by Leipheimer, Hincapie, Zabriskie, the official ToC site and the governor (on Twitter I assume) at 8:30am. That cracks me up. A planned leak? Ha!
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zoe
are you talking to yourself in here?
"My facking goat didn’t wear Robes! Does he look Scottisch?!" Baron von Frinkenstein
by itswells on Oct 22, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Levi
He tweeted this two days ago:
I am confident that Santa Rosa will be announced as a host city on Thursday for the @amgentourofcali
I assumed “I am confident” meant “I know”.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Oct 22, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yosemite turned down a route through the Park. Bummer. That would have been spectacular.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Up Tioga Road from the valley over to Mono Lake would have been cool
by roadside on Oct 22, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am excited to see the route (clearly)
especially since its in May. More room to roam in the late Spring.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too much snow in may
this road typically open in early to mid june.
I think a time trial in Yosemite Valley would be epic. I don’t know if it’s logistically possible, but there is a loop road there that would be perfect. Nice and flat, and takes in all of the sights.
Flahutes: Harden the F--k Up!
by bobgade on Oct 22, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the issue was the road closures needed for the race. Would be a nightmare.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it requires a change in mindset
Simple announcement: that day the road will be closed because of a sporting event. Aight, so we can’t use it that day. Hey, maybe we could go watch.
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
Not an easy thing here, where cycling does not have the deep roots it does in the older cycling countries. The difficulty with Yosemite is that May is a peak period for people to visit, and there aren’t alternate routes. In the main, though, I think the nix on Yomsemite has more to do with the wilderness factor.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's more of a legal issue
Something to do with not allowing events that award prize money. And there is only one road in Yosemite Valley, really. They would never shut down the entire valley for an entire day for anything. No way.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, legal issue was mentioned earlier
So that’s the main reason or really the only one. Still, “they would never” is just what I meant: lots of main arteries or only roads over mountain passes get closed off in Europe, for the Tour de France as most prominent example. Just the way it works: that day you can’t go there by car. Acceptance for most. Much rejoicing among hotel owners.
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This would be good too: just outside Yosemite
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sonora Pass might still be closed in May
But if it was open, it would be a a gorgeous ride and a beast of a stage. The summit is over 9600 feet, or 2700 meters, with sections over 20% near the top. And the east side is a bitch. Best part is that almost nobody actually uses that road because it goes from Sonora on the west side, to the middle of fucking nowhere on the east side.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eastern Sierra
It would make for amazing racing to go to the Eastern Sierra, but it’s so freakin’ remote. You’d have the race running along empty roads. Maybe some peeps would head to Mammoth for a stage finish, but it would be really hard to draw the crowds.
Me, I can’t say I have too much criticism of the Yosemite decision. It’s not like Cali needs to promote that place – plenty of people find their way there. And dunno, pretty special corner of the planet, not sure I’d want to think of a bike race running through there.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yosemite is crowded enough
that place needs less traffic and fewer crowds as it is. The mobile circus that makes up a stage race would not help. The Eastern Sierra would just blow people away with its awesomeness, but the route would be devoid of spectators.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I so heart the Eastern Sierra
but yeah, it’d be hard to draw any crowds at all. Also, it might be a bit cruel so send a bike race through the Mojave ;-)
It’s one of the more beautiful parts of California, though, really. To see the Sierra Nevada rise so steeply from the desert is amazing.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or infrastructure to host anything.
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
What, you don’t think Independence could host a major bike race? ;-)
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Le Vining would be perfect
Check out the lodging options
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How cool would that be?
Start in Sonora, head up over Sonora Pass, descend down to 395, finish in Bodie on 3 miles of dirt road. Google maps says it would be 137 miles. That would be a rough day.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
imagining the whole peloton
at sorenson’s or the like…
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Went there once, camped overnight in Lone Pine
near Bishop. Most beautiful scenery I’ve every been so lucky to witness. When you are in the Sierra looking up at Mt Whitney it is like looking at a giant wall.
by Mr Van P on Oct 23, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
We used to camp at the end Horseshoe Meadows Rd (and then hike up into the Lakes area).
I’ve ridden from Lone Pine up to that campground once. The road crests just North of 10,000 ft I believe, I know that the campground is almost exactly at 10,000. Lone Pine sits at around 3,700 feet.
Did I mention that I only did this once?
Gorgeous scenery, truly stunning, but hard work!
There’s a race out there each year called the Everest Challenge. It’s for the light weights, it probably also helps to be slightly insane…
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Oct 23, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lovely spot
I’ve driven through Lone Pine any number of times.
There used to be a two-day race, Death Valley to Mount Whitney. The first day ran from Death Valley to Lone Pine. The second, from Lone Pine to Whitney Portal. Silliness.
by gavia on Oct 23, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Everest Challenge
It’s still on!
Here are the results from this year
BTW I agree on the silliness description!
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Oct 23, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I need to go ride some of these roads.
by Jimbo... on Oct 23, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only advice
Gear appropriately, and be prepared for a long, long day…
The phrase, “just around the next corner” will get worn out :-)
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Oct 23, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this route is horrible...
no offense to people that live in Bakersfield or Visallia…but come on! Everyone knows what we call that area!
by cyclingdiva on Oct 22, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But hand on...Bakersfield...biggest Basque population in the US.
Does this mean that just possibly Euskie might be enticed over? If Cali gets Intxausti you will be lucky people ;-)
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
by Albertina on Oct 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? is that true about Bakersfield?
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. They have a pelota tournament there each year and some of the Basque pros go over.
http://euskalkazeta.com/ek/?p=410
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
by Albertina on Oct 22, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really are into the Basque culture not just cycling. Do you study it in school?
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it happened through cycling really! I've always had obscure interests ;-)
I write a blog on pelota too: http://frontonnews.wordpress.com/
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
by Albertina on Oct 22, 2009 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bookmarked it. Looks interesting. I'll read some when I have time.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fernando Goni, one of the players in that Bakersfield article read it and messaged me on Twitter!
I was fairly starstruck!
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
by Albertina on Oct 22, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
For three of the players, this was their first trip to the United States. They were amazed to find themselves among so many Basque speakers in Bakersfield.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boise, Idaho has the other big US Basque community
"If I were World Road Race Champion, I would wear black shorts. That probably has more to do with me being on the wiser side of 30 and understanding better that the decisions I make now never really go away. White shorts would not be something I'd be proud of...." - David Millar, in Rouleur.
by Albertina on Oct 22, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Winnemucca, Nevada?
Lots of Basques there too!
by Merry Crankster on Oct 22, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
what a happy surprise once when I was driving cross country to be able to have an interesting meal in Winnemucca.
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I miss Winnemucca.
I lived there for a bit. Very interesting place and all sorts of Basque restaurants. They have one restaurant that serves sheep fries.
by profgubler on Oct 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? in Winnemucca?
I didn’t know, all I saw were the casinos when I stopped there… briefly
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the town
That also has the airport with all the weird, plane white 737s parked on the tarmac?
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I usually think of it
as the crotch
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depending on who's crotch, could be viewed as "heaven".
No horn, watch for finger.
by sminer on Oct 22, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whoa...that's a lot of driving for me!
yo zoe…we will need a tweetup in stage 1
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yup...there will be alot of..."see you at the finish Lyne"....HA!
so do we drive to the start the night before….or early the next day…
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah will need to look at this one
garchick will be used a lot!
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me guess
it’s a pink Garmin for feminists?
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Lyne's Garmin....speaks with female voice
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
she's a bit passive aggressive sometimes though
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
i’m picturing some full-on arguments between Lyne and the GarChick
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the problem - she just keeps repeating 'please follow...' in the same neutral voice
told you, passive aggressive!
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems to me it was designed more
for residents to catch the race than for Tourists to follow it.
Beware the Argyle Unicorn!!
by Clydesdale on Oct 22, 2009 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Good point Marvin. I always thought these were to show case your state?
by cyclingdiva on Oct 22, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of these stages will be a pain
to get into unless they organize shuttles. This year getting into oh what is the name of the city where they start right before the Golden Gate bridge stage? Pain in the butt!
by cyclingdiva on Oct 22, 2009 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
whoa...I totally disagree
the start…if the SF previews are correct is at pier 30….quite easy access…and I actually think easier than Sausalito start.
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that will work well
Through the Marina into Crissy Field and Golden Gate Park. Lots of good places to watch from.
Tickets are bought, Belgium here I come!
by jsallee00 on Oct 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup...the mentioned the Bay-to-Breakers course...
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh ok
Wow, on a Monday. Those are some petty heavy traffic streets to be closing.
Tickets are bought, Belgium here I come!
by jsallee00 on Oct 22, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's on a Tuesday
They will start at 10 or 11 after the morning rush hour, and just roll down the Embarcadero and be out of town in about 15 minutes. It won’t cause much trouble, I would guess
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just noticed the Bay to Breakers route mention
Howard street to 9th, up to Hayes, out to Fell, and through the Park. I can watch the start from my office window almost.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sausalito this year is what I'm talking about.
They should have done shuttles. Like they did in Davis. Parking was very difficult.
by cyclingdiva on Oct 22, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sausalito is difficult on a non ToC day.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parking always sucks in Sausalito
The fact that it was pouring rain this past year probably made it better because it kept most people away, or maybe it made it worse because all of us locals drove down instead of riding.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sausalito
No bridge crossing this year, which is too bad.
Tickets are bought, Belgium here I come!
by jsallee00 on Oct 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that we saw much of the Golden gate Bridge last year....
…the rain storm that day was vicious!!!
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't go as expected last year. No coffee table photo book shots.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we got a pretty good one
A lot of thought went into this shot.
Larger version here:
http://www.cyclingfans.net/images/2009_tour_of_california_golden_gate_bridge.jpg
Too bad they won’t cross again in 2010.
by Pete-CF on Oct 23, 2009 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bridge crossing was supposed to be..
a massive publicity bonanza. The photos on the worldwide feed were going to be Humungous! And the PR Gods showed their fickleness.
And did I tell you it cost the organizers million dollars for the stage to cross the GGB? And another million for the rest of the day?
by MavicMoto on Oct 22, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lance Armstrong tweeted that he will be riding the ToC.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Awwww man
Does this mean we’re going to have live images of all those other losers riding ?
by Jens on Oct 22, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does this squash Levi's quest
for 4 straight ToC wins?
I mean uh... hasn't that ever occurred to you, man? Sir?
by Drew... on Oct 23, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ToC site has a map of the 2010 route on it but if you click on it for a larger version
itsd the 2009 map still. Oops. Blame the webmaster!
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they're slow with the updates
bigger 2010 map here
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am bummed there's no prologue or ITT in NorCal.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Too bad no ITT in Venice.
I was really wondering about how they’d handle the street closings in that area. Downtown LA should be interesting, with some nice hills around Disney Hall area. It won’t be as easy as a spectator to move around to different parts of the course as in Solvang.
by Veloki on Oct 22, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and imagine the crowd pics! those would have been awesome
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
though downtown is not bad....interesting buildings in LA
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
poor Bakersfield. Will it ever shake that image?
I went to a local dirt oval track stock car race there when I was 13. Don’t ask me why. Its the only stock car race I’ve ever been to.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, then you could say it's your last.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 22, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah
May will always be Giro month to me.
I mean uh... hasn't that ever occurred to you, man? Sir?
by Drew... on Oct 22, 2009 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There's no pollemica here folks, move along.
Cyclovia: Bogota www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
by flying dog on Oct 22, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry - still irritated that they moved it from February and spoiled my training camp
I mean uh... hasn't that ever occurred to you, man? Sir?
by Drew... on Oct 22, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shut the fuck up Donny
I mean uh... hasn't that ever occurred to you, man? Sir?
by Drew... on Oct 23, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not enthused. those transfers are going to be killer
by lyne on Oct 22, 2009 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
bundle of suck
on the transfers, for sure.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garchick and I are going to be very close!
by steph- on Oct 22, 2009 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how much the ToC will hurt the Giro
The USA is a big market for most cycling team sponsors and insisting that their teams send a quality team to the ToC will probably be high on their agenda. Does this mean that the Giro will become a regional race again where only Italians are going to Giro for the win? What do others think? Does ASO’s involvement with the ToC bring extra pressure for teams to send a competitive team?
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 22, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some of the slack-asses using the Giro for Tour prep
might go to Cali instead. Training + making an appearance for the sponsors. It’s a good fit.
by Jens on Oct 22, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
That’s what I’m afraid might happen. I would love to go the Giro one day, but I don’t want to go to watch a regional race.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 22, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 I really hope that doesn't become the case.
My wife really wants to go to Europe sometime within the next few years. I’d like to as well but said the only way I could justify spending all that money would be to attend a few stages of the Giro. She actually favored that angle!
by Spot of Bother on Oct 22, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll add to Jens' comments to say
It’s not so much anti-Giro as pro-Tour. It won’t take much away from the Giro as there really isn;t that much in the way of riders doing Tour prep at the Giro: maybe one or two big names a year, tops.
But the ToC will become an early Tour prep and in that light it makes sense that the ToC course is not that hard.
by ursula on Oct 22, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't ASO
now own an interest in the ToC?
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's an ownership share
My recollection is that they have a deal with AEG to promote the race in Europe.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, doesn't hurt the racing in the Giro
Perhaps some of the pre-race hype though?
by Jens on Oct 22, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That and according to Andy Schleck on CN
It looks like he will be there if possible. If he were to go, Saxo would obviously be sending a good team.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 22, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Almost certainly sponsor-determined
Le Shack and Columbia will certainly send fab squads. Sky, who has interests in Italy, would likely send a better team to the Giro than Cali, if they are invited. Liquigas is obvy all Giro, though they have an American bike sponsor, so they frequently send nice teams to the US races. Etc.
It’ll be a mix – some good riders will go each way. But I don’t see the Giro going all regional because of Cali.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until the last couple of years, the Giro was regional
I’m not saying that the Giro will be back to those days exactly, but a ToC with fantastic weather, great organization, and awesome fans can’t be good for it. From what I hear, I would certainly expect the logistics of the ToC to much better than most other races, in Europe or elsewhere and that certainly has to make an impression on the riders and DSs that will be there.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 22, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you
certainly expect the logistics of the ToC to much better than most other races, in Europe or elsewhere
?
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has been rampant complaining for years about the shit food/hotels
That riders have had to deal with in the GTs while there have been many positive comments about the the food/hotels from riders since the ToC’s inception. Maybe I should have specified what exactly I was talking about.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 23, 2009 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
tough to find a good meal in italy or france.
by yeehoo on Oct 23, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well smartass
There is a problem for teams that don’t have their own cook with shitty food at hotels in France. Riders have complained about it for years. They tend to rely on food that the hotels can provide and many times the substandard food is not what they need nutrionally for proper recovery/refueling. So, there is a problem with food unless they are going to go find a restaurant and pay out of pocket themselves, which they aren’t going to do because going and tracking down food after a long day on the bike isn’t feasible.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 23, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You make it sound like this happens every day to every team
If you really think that is what happens, you are deluded. Sure, there are some bad (or cheap) hotels and every team is bound to encounter one during the 3 weeks w/ a different hotel each night. Especially in villages and with 20 teams + full entourage. So every rider has a story. Still, incidental.
by tedvdw on Oct 23, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm
I think QS gets the runs every time they come to the states. And, the motel accommodations at the ToM were horrible. ToC are a little better…but nothing to brag about.
by cyclingdiva on Oct 23, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tour of Cali
The first year at the Tour of Cali, the race passed through a bunch of high end towns, and the accomadations were well, high end. In one case, there were teams doing it up at the Four Seasons. Kid you not. So, I think the rep of the Tour of Cali having fab hotels and awesome org comes from the first year, when they were actually in high end hotels and there were no transfers.
The more recent editions I’m sure are fine, but not much different than a European race. The transfer from the Bake to Pasadena next year won’t be much better than the average Giro transfer, and could conceivable be much much worse if there’s heavy traffic on the grape vine.
So agreeing with you :-)
by gavia on Oct 23, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and in california the hotel food is better?
Or what? Seriously, i’m asking. And is it american riders complaining about the food or everyone?
by yeehoo on Oct 23, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overcooked pasta seems to be a French hotel catering speciality ;-)
You do see a lot of cliched whinging about that from all sorts of riders. But then there’s Cadel’s astonishment at finally getting a bad bowl of pasta in Italy
by civetta on Oct 23, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
& I'm not convinced the Giro was all that "regional" either
though obviously it has meant more to Italians to win it & they have frequently done so
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the majority of the ones really focusing on the win are Italians
I would call it regional. Not saying that there aren’t international riders showing up, but the truly elite riders aren’t trying to win most years, the last few excepted.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 23, 2009 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indurain? Mercx? Fignon? Hinault? Anquetil?
by civetta on Oct 23, 2009 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're all in the "last few" years which Spun Out was excepting... ;-)
plus I still can’t spell Merckx, tut.
by civetta on Oct 23, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contador won when he showed up
And so did Menchov. Leipheimer was there for nothing more than training and to help Contador.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 23, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those guys rode every race back in the day
Riders today don’t do that. Since those days are long gone, that’s not valid. You can’t tell me that Cunego was one of the elite GT riders when he won the Giro, no way.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 23, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive me
but hang on a minute here.
Examples from the recent past you’ve already excepted/discounted. Examples from the “past” past you’re now also dismissing. So basically, the only the only period that’s relevant in determining whether or not the Giro is or has been a “regional” race corresponds, more or less, to the period when HWMNBN was riding (& winning) exclusively the Tour.
So Lance returns, does the Giro once, lending it an air of international importance, then decides to sod off back to Cali the following year, making it “regional” again, yes?
Actually, in the eyes of a certain audience, you may well be right… ;-)
by civetta on Oct 23, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Giro is a regional race
than it’s the greatest regional race EVER. But you have to look at more than GC contenders, the Giro also draws out a lot of interntaional sprinters and all around guys. Yes the Italians go all out for it while the international riders take it more easy because of the Tour, but riders will only be using the ToC to improve form for the Tour in May. They may try to win because it’s less difficult than the Giro, but I doubt any PT rider will go into the year with the ToC win as a major goal(well except Levi of course).
Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!
by Phil H. on Oct 23, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if thats why the Giro has such a great route this year, as if to say
oh you want to race along side us, well say hello to some gravel roads..oh and some little climbs called Gavia, Mortirolo, Zoncolan, Terminillo and so on…so what you got?
Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!
by Phil H. on Oct 22, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is, if we were to get really serious about proper climbs, we have
HUGE mountains that dwarf most of the climbs in Europe and definitely views that rival them. The one thing we don’t have is the romance and history of the races over here. But, if there were a concerted effort, we could definitely get started on that route.
If I just had one more gear, I...
by SpunOut on Oct 22, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well the mountain may be bigger but the roads are far less spectacular
at least here in Colorado, you have huge mountains, with big roads going up them at like 4% grades…quite a yawner.
Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!
by Phil H. on Oct 22, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like that
I’m guessing it was difficult to get stage hosts this time. Most local governments don’t have any extra cash these days in Cali to be hosting bike races – the AEG has to foot a lot of the bill and head for spots where it’ll cost less to get the roads. Certainly, they could have gone to Venice with enough cash. In the ‘80s they ran a one-day race straight through the heart of LA, with rolling closures all the way. That’s serious money right there. But that was the ’80s.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But that was the 80's
And how big was your hair back then, Gav?
by ursula on Oct 22, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not very big
as i was just a wee lass in the 80s ;-)
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gav is younger than her avatar looks
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am amazed she was even born
what with that, like, SoCal thingy going on and all I thought she was, like, 19 ZOMG! lolz.
by tedvdw on Oct 22, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pasadena to Big Bear via Wrightwood?
That is going to be an entire day in the mountains. No huge gradients I think, but a long, long day riding through all those places that just burned up during the wildfires that you saw on the news.
by Jimbo... on Oct 22, 2009 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, across the ridgeline
and through the burnzone. If the road survives the winter.
That could be problematic. And they will have to hope there is no wind – That ashy shit blows all over the freakin’ place. Yuck.
by gavia on Oct 22, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Atmospheric conditions aside
I think that this stage could be an entertaining one.
You’re right, there’s no nasty gradients in there, but the climbing just goes on and on and on. Perfect for the TT’er who can hang with the climbers but can’t respond to savage attacks on steep stuff.
Also perfect for a stacked team to dish out a death march. Set an unrelenting pace and watch the “couldabeens” and “almosts” get dropped one by one.
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Oct 22, 2009 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
It has potential to be quite fun to watch – and if the weather cooperates, there should be some seriously awesome photo ops. I like this stage a lot. It’s also spectator friendly, because Big Bear is a nice place to hang out with plenty of lodging. Win-win, in my view.
Me, I think they should have sent them across the Pearblossom Highway and up the back side of Big Bear – but I’m cruel that way. And, it would be completely impractical. The climb on the desert side is freakin’ silly, though.
by gavia on Oct 23, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are mean!
Have the specific details been finalizee yet, or are we just looking at what people think is the “most likely”?
If we assume that they are going to ride around the 120 mile distance then there are a number of ways to get from the Rose Bowl to Big Bear, some tougher than others – but none of them easy.
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Oct 23, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it's not final
LOL, but I highly doubt they would ride the Pearblossom ;-)
by gavia on Oct 23, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that they are.
Assuming that they take the ‘crest (Highway 2) over Waterman and down into Wrightwood, wouldn’t they then hook up with the 138 to the Rim of the World (18) and just follow that into Big Bear?
I thought that the gang at Steephill.tv (isn’t that you too?) pretty much captured it here The only question was do they go up the 39 to the 2 or hit the 2 straight out of La Canada…
Or is there an even more difficult route?
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
by muk on Oct 23, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That portion of 138 is not the Pearblossom highway
Pearblossom doesn’t go that far east. It’s only the part of 138 and 18 north and west of there out on the flat high dessert.
Gav, is the crazy climb from the desert side you are thinking of highway 173?
by Jimbo... on Oct 23, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
LOL, i wasn’t being all that specific. You split off the Pearblossom and head toward Victorville, cross the 15, then head out through Apple Valley. Hmm, 173 might be right. I’d have to check a map thingy to be sure. There’s only one option though on that side – it’s on the northeast side of the lake at Big Bear.
by gavia on Oct 23, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they still haven't decided the road
ahem and I quote from the press conference
“Operational & technical guys are recommending that the route goes through the desert after Angeles and then come up the backway, the alternative is to come up the Rim of the World Highway.”
and the roads up Angeles are currently closed from the Station Fire but after consultation with CalTrans, the organizers are optimistic that they will be re-opened.
by lyne on Oct 23, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I see is the "usual" lack of acceptance of change.
I embrace the TOC’s growth and competition with racing in Europe and I say “about time”. Sure the Giro is one of the major tours I would like to visit one day of all the majors because, hell, it’s Italy. But it just seems natural to me that cycling venues grow in other places just as they did over a hundred years ago, and it is almost inevitable that they compete as well.
No horn, watch for finger.
by sminer on Oct 22, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they had found a good niche as an attractive season-opener
I have serious doubts that it will make much of a splash in May. Who is impressed with the label: The NEW Volta a Catalunya?
Time will tell
by Jens on Oct 22, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I might agree
if the parcours was more interesting. Seems to me they haven’t taken much advantage of the better weather May offers. All or large parts of 4 stages are in the Central Valley, one of the flattest places on the planet. And by May it’s already pretty hot there. Headscratcher for sure.
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with both of you
I liked it as a season opener, and it does appear that they aren’t using the potential that is there for an amazing course. I hope they have a great vision and are growing this Tour slowly to become a grand tour some day. That really falls under the category of “Time will tell”.
No horn, watch for finger.
by sminer on Oct 22, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only see one stage in the Central Valley.
1 – Sierra Foothills into the Sacramento Vally
2 – Sacramento Valley into the Coastal Mountains
3 – SF Bay Area
4 – Bay Area to San Joaquin Valley
5 – Central Valley
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parts of 1, 2, 4 and all of 5 — I see your point about differnetiating “Sacramento” and “San Joaquin” Valleys from the Central Valley but they are all of a piece and equally flat. Of those, only #2 doesn’t end in the Valley. 1 is downhill then flat. 4 is over the coast range then flat. 5 is flat flat and more flat. They could do a lot better especially if this is supposed to be a pre-TdF tuneup and is no longer a pre-Spring-Classics tuneup. I suspect gavia is right about the state’s (and municipalities’)financial problems having an effect.
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Us folks in Sacramento consider the Central Valley to be south of Merced or so
But as far as the heat goes, it doesn’t matter. Its hotter the further north you go. That Nevada City to Sacramento stage could be 105F and bone dry or 65F and raining. Never can tell in May.
It makes me laugh when people say it won’t rain in California in May. They could be in for a rude awakening.
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and us folks in the Bay Area
consider everything east of Fairfield to be in Nebraska :)
Seriously though, I’ve never heard anyone differentiate the difference in the Valley between Redding and Bakersfield. It’s all just “the valley”… aka the place you have to suffer through to get to Tahoe.
Tickets are bought, Belgium here I come!
by jsallee00 on Oct 22, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh no.... you have insulted my valley dweller sensibility. ;-)
by ZoeRochelle on Oct 22, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope I haven't insulted
I will cop to having, more or less, the Bay Area perspective jsallee00 describes… although as a transplanted midwesterner I am sensitive to the flyover mentaility.
"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."
--Dino Buzzati
by nrs5000 on Oct 22, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"the "usual" lack of acceptance of change"
not a management consultant, by any chance, are you? ;-)
by civetta on Oct 22, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid NEWB question:
Is this thing gonna be on TV? I live in CT and am in no danger of making it out to physically watch the race.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
by DannoE on Oct 23, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
THere has been excellent web coverage
with free streaming video, commentary and stats.
by tedvdw on Oct 23, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Versus broadcast it on the TeeVee
not live, but a daily summary
by Jimbo... on Oct 23, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Versus had it live last year and I believe they have already announced live cov for next year
no doubt now with Lance riding.
Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!
by Phil H. on Oct 23, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
Now go do your homework
by Jimbo... on Oct 23, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would bet he rides the ToC
Because Columbia is a US company, the team is a California based team, Cav’s big goal next year will be the green jersey at the Tour, and that is all I can think of right now…
by Jimbo... on Oct 23, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he lives in Italy right? He seemed to love riding the Giro last year
and it helped him get in the form to win 6 stages at the Tour, I say he does Italy and Greipel Cali.
Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!
by Phil H. on Oct 23, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does live in Italy & he's a pretty big star over there.
They seem to like him very much &, ahem, recent developments will doubtless add to that. My one doubt though is that he has practically no chance of ciclamino in the Giro & while I’m not terribly sure this is exactly the Tour parcours for an attempt at green, if that’s his priority… but maybe he’ll do two weeks of the Giro again or whatever. No one seemed to mind terribly his pulling out.
by civetta on Oct 23, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will probably pull out of the race before the Zoncolan
the first 2 weeks of the race are actually quite sprinter friendly, the last 8 or so stages are by no means sprinter friendly.. Well according to the rumors which are very solid, we will know for sure tomorrow.
Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!
by Phil H. on Oct 23, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rider logistics will be key...
Personally, my take is that if anything, a May date confirms the ToC as a regional race, rather than the other way around. Almost all top level racers are based in Europe int he summer. and I think many of those will look at the round-the-world flight, and think, thanks, but no thanks.
Also, best will in the world, the ToC is not a GT. I suspect the ToC will end up seeing decent squads from genuinely US based teams, plus a few (but not many) riders who want to do warm up racing and / or have sponsor commitments. Plus, from the Parcours, it looks like the climbers would be better off doing Euro races with proper hills in them.
Those tuning up for the TdF have better / more historic / more local races to do it at.
by addict on Oct 23, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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