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Eddy vs. Edvald [Updated]

Stats_mediumI know I have often said there is no next Eddy Merckx. I have also said on more than one occasion that Edvald Boasson Hagen is, in fact, the next Eddy Merckx. Both of these statements can't be true. So which one is? Let's look for some data to help us decide.

  • Eddy Merckx finished 12th in the 1964 Olympics, at age 19. Edvald finished 71st in the Beijing Olympics at age 21. But that doesn't really count, there were fewer countries in 1964 than there are now.
  • In his first professional season Eddy Merckx won three races, followed by 13 in his second year, during which he celebrated his 21st birthday. EBH won eight races in his first professional season, plus 15 more the next year, for a total of 23 wins before his 21st birthday. Actually, since his birthday is in May, you can add in a 24th, the Criterium International time trial in early April.
  • At age 22, Eddy won his first grand tour stage, the 12th leg of the Giro d'Italia. He bagged his second stage two days later along with a second on stage 19. Meanwhile, at age 22, Edvald won his first grand tour palmare, stage 7 of this year's Giro d'Italia. He also shared a team win in the opening TTT, and took second on two other stages.
  • Also at age 22, or shortly before, Edvald won the Flemish classic Gent-Wevelgem. In his comparable year, Eddy Merckx won Gent-Wevelgem. And Milano-Sanremo, Fleche Wallonne, and the World Championship. While taking second in Liege-Bastogne-Liege, third in de Ronde, sixth in the Giro di Lombardia, and 9th in the Giro d'Italia.

Conclusion: Edvald Boasson Hagen is not yet the next Eddy Merckx. I'd give him another year or two. Certainly, he can catch up to Merckx by winning Paris-Roubaix, the Giro (twice), the Tour, Flanders, L-B-L, MSR a few times, and Paris-Nice. Then I definitely think we can call him the next Eddy Merckx.

[Tongue firmly in cheek here. EBH is utterly awesome... but not quite this awesome. Yet.]

Update: a little serious analysis now. It's hard to know where EBH is going, though at least we shall start to see in the next couple years since Sky are likely to set him free. But 22 is still incredibly young for a cyclist. In years' past his legs simply wouldn't yet have the strength they will someday, after a few hard seasons, Tours, etc. -- probably still the case. 

But we do know already that he's a devilishly fast finisher, too slow for Cav but nearly on par with Greipel, Farrar and his countryman Hushovd. And we know he has fairly awesome raw power, on display in his time trial exploits, where he won his last two non-prologues, scored third in Rome, and is the reigning Norwegian champion.

Sprinting and time trialing... some comparables are Tom Boonen and Thor Hushovd, or even George Hincapie. But Hincapie is taller and less sprinty, while Boonen and Hushovd are both at least ten pounds heavier. So while skillsets might be vaguely similar for now, I wouldn't fix expectations accordingly.

Climbing is the key, of course. We know Boasson Hagen can rip up a short climb, as his exploits in Belgium have shown. I would say he's a solid Milano-Sanremo contender right now. He may or may not be diesel enough to win Paris-Roubaix, but he is clearly capable of some Ronde results once he gets accustomed to the longest, hardest days in the saddle. [Warning: that may or may not happen in 2010.] Then what? Can he improve his climbing enough to compete in Amstel Gold? Liege-Bastogne-Liege might be a better event for him when he's ready, since the finish (in recent times) isn't biased toward the pure climbers and occasionally is won in a mid-length break (a/k/a time trial). Another comparable might be Philippe Gilbert, who is a shade lighter at present.

The final obstacle is the high mountains, and here we know nothing, except that in this year's Giro he was not a factor. There are a long list of explanations for this -- he was engaged in teamwork, it was his first grand tour, he wasn't prepared for the high mountains at any time this season, etc. Lance Armstrong, a big-diesel guy who was built like EBH at the same age, wasn't an instant sensation in the grand tours either. But Lance also possesses a supernatural cardiovascular system, a unique physical gift, and anyway comparing someone to Lance is only slightly less unfair than the cheeky comp that I started this column with. For now, suffice to say EBH isn't a high mountains guy, though I wouldn't rule it out someday.

I do think Boasson Hagen will be more than a Flanders success. I am a little skeptical that he will ever be able to hang with the pure climbers. If he dedicated himself to a decade-long, pan-European classics rampage, well, the field is brimming with talent these days, so he'll be sharing the spoils no matter what. But Boasson Hagen will leave a mark on the sport. The question is, how big?

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Hey Chris

Based on that, can you predict what Edvald will do next season??
I am curious, but too lazy to research or google it.

Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!

by perezbike on Oct 23, 2009 6:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Win MSR

Not kidding this time.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 23, 2009 7:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

but is that based on eddy's wins

or your own forecast?

Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!

by perezbike on Oct 23, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

Data won’t do, really. 1965 was too long ago. I will say more @ EBH tonight, no time now.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 23, 2009 8:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

No, there will never be another Eddy Merckx

not in modern day cycling and I can’t see things changing in the future. EBH is very far away from winning the Tour, and then he still has to win at least 2-3 more monuments plus the Giro that same year to be considered as good as Merckx.

Dammit Elk! I don't care if it's your mating season, you are disturbing my peaceful sleep! Just STFU!

by Phil H. on Oct 23, 2009 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

No pressure or anything

Lucky for EBH he’s not Belgian and he’s maybe never even heard of Merckx. q

"The road is our agony, but also our daily bread; and at night, when it is deserted and the moon glistens on the asphalt, the ridiculous dreams of racers like us pass up and down it."

--Dino Buzzati

by nrs5000 on Oct 23, 2009 11:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah I know the difference between them 2

Merckx has heard of EBH but EBH never heard of Mercxk..

As he said himself when they already get the comparison after winning G-W

by Frinking on Oct 24, 2009 3:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

All comparisons are onerous.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Oct 23, 2009 11:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Funny thing for Columbia fans

They had EBH but let him go in favour of some sprinter who is going to be yesterdays news in two years time (as hotshot sprinters tend to be).

Coincidentally about the same year that EBH pulls off the Flanders / Giro-double. Funny thing.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 4:28 AM EDT reply actions  

What's the problem there

Cav’s probably on a two year contract, and about then Sky are going to be saying “Where’s our British Tour winner?” Just about the right time to head back.

by Monty. on Oct 24, 2009 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder if there was a bidding war for EBH?

Cycling transfers, for the most part, are so quiet compared to free agent signings for the main sports here in the states. You would think every team would have offered him a contract. He’s young, versatile and someone you want to build a team around.

by PopUp Rolen on Oct 24, 2009 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

His manager sure made it sound like it

I have a feeling Sky have been pretty smart in these cases though. Seems like they haven’t been haggling too much. They seem to have had a pretty clear picture of what riders are worth and offered that. If the rider signed then good , if not they let him go.
Don’t know for a fact of course.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Stapleton talked about it in the November Procycling.

He said they were willing to pay “whatever it took”

Unfortunately, we had extreme difficulties with his manager. We just couldn’t engage the guy. I don’t know what his issue was with us, because we’ve always had good feedback from Edvald. We thought we were going to sign something at the Giro but then his manager cancelled appointments with us on two separate occasions. I think that’s also when and where he signed with Sky.

His theory about why EBH went to Sky:

One reason he might have wanted to join Sky was that other two Norwegians, Kurt Asle Arevesen and Lars Petter Nordhaug, have signed. He’s such a shy, sensitive guy that I could see how he’d want to be around people who speak the same language.

And his assessment of EBH:

And to answer your question about him being a once-in-a-generation rider, yes, I do think he’s totally unique. Forget anyone else, he might be the most important piece of business any team will do this winter.

by majope on Oct 24, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really important but those statements do not add up

He says he thinks EBH decided at the Giro and one reason was KAA but we know for a fact that KAA was undecided where to go until late in the season.

He’s right on the money with the last statement though.

My guess on why EBH’s manager was inaccessible is that they made the strategic assumption early on that EBH would never be Col-HTC’s No1 priority. By letting EBH be the nice guy and his manager taking the flack there was less risk of ending up in the cooler like Lövkvist. did.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on the manager bit

nice cop/mean cop is one of the chief benefits of having an agent.

KAA, though—we don’t know where the negotiations were with him when EBH signed. If they already had Nordhaug in the bag and were trying to get KAA, that might indeed have helped sway the kid. Or signing EBH and wanting him to feel comfortable might have spurred Sky to try harder to get KAA, so I’m not sure the timing matters that much.

by majope on Oct 24, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

true

I do think Stapleton is rationalizing a bit though. In the end they weren’t prepared to do what it took to be EBH’s team of choice. I think it’s a case of “a bird in hand” and you can’t fault him for it.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for one of the more realistic views on Boasson Hagen I have seen since...

… ever.

The Giro is still the closest he has come to beating a top gun in his game – but that was outsprinting Di Luca and Pellizotti for a second place.

I think Boasson Hagen lacks two things – tactics and stamina.

Just talking about sprints, he mainly has one approach – go for it at 400 meters. Until now this has given him many victories over riders like Kuschinskiy, Viganó, Hunter and Ballan – but, has resulted in nothing a number of times as the toppier sprinters have been right in his backwheel.
Most of all, there’s the lack of stamina. He lost five minutes on the last round at the Worlds. In the Giro, he performed surprisingly well in stages at more than 220 km but nonetheless, he almost always bonks at the last part of classics – even Vattenfall. His Gent – Wevelgem-victory was a nice win on opportunism but he had been dropped from the group just a couple of kilometers earlier.

Talking about GT’s, I really don’t hope he will ever shine in a GT, just as I hope Cancellara never will – if one of them do, cycling is twenty years back again.

What I find most impressive about Boasson Hagen is his consistency – only July and October are missing Boasson Hagen on a results list. That is huge for a 22-year old and he could very well be a contender for Milano – San Remo next year but I think we’ll have to wait at least three years for him to shine in de Ronde and Paris – Roubaix.

by Forstoppelse on Oct 24, 2009 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

+ several

Appreciate the details!

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 24, 2009 2:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Lot of good points

most of them relating to the fact that he is still young.

One thing I don’t agree on is the GT thing. What is clear is that the guy has a huge engine. How he decides to use it is still up to him. He’s not a tiny guy but he’s not huge either (1.80m 75-77kg). If he was to focus his training-regime on stageracing I don’t see what would be hugely suspicious about him becoming a GT winner?

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be suspicious

But I would be a bit surprised. I suppose with his power he could win Evans-style*, chugging along in the climbs while nailing the cronos. But I think we can say he’s not the next Contador, I think his climbing would already be a little more noticeable.

[*yes, I am aware Evans has not won a grand tour yet.]

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 24, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think there are a multitude of ways to win GTs

We tend take the formats we’ve seen the last decade as given but that is slightly false. Also look at a guy like Wiggins, a year ago we hadn’t seen him show anything that indicated he could climb like he did this summer. I don’t think EBH is less physically gifted.

That said, I too find it more likely that EBH in 10 years will have a palmares more like Rik van Looy than Eddy Merckx.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

So far . . .

everyone has over-looked the MOST important question:

Does he have the heart and desire to WANT to dominate for a long time?

That’s where the comparisons to Armstrong and Merckx MIGHT be relevant. Whatever you think about Armstrong’s physiological gifts—no one has ever done well under-estimating his Nietzschean will to domination. Ditto w/Merckx.

Boonen? yeah, right. Cavendish . . . well . . . possibly. Cancellara? Strange one that guy—he seems to actually almost be at peace—

There does not seem to be any question about EBH’s physiological gifts, so the real questions involve the head and heart in charge of putting the physiology into play.

by R Mc on Oct 24, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Any time a young guy wins that much, including time trials, you can safely assume he likes winning.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 24, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

It might not be Killer instinct

but there is a history of norwegian athletes with a freakish mental focus combined with phisical gifts. I would go as far as to say there is something in the culture of sports in Norway that is helpful in fostering that mentality.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

is this

from nordic skiing? a couple hours a VO2 max in a frozen wilderness seems like it would hone your focus.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 24, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

It seems to foster nutcases , yes

Björn Dählie and swede Gunde Svan are both complete loons but with a singlemindedness that make them competitive on the same level as Merckx and LA. But nicer.
 Norway has a string of guys like that. Not all of them with the same talent as Dählie and EBH.

by Jens on Oct 24, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Freddie Ljungberg

total freak. I went to the game last night. He’s the EBH of setting up scoring chances.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 25, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Has he been healthy?

Last seasons he has been insanely injury-prone.

by Jens on Oct 25, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fine for now

Lotta mileage on that body though.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris Fontecchio on Oct 25, 2009 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

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