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Cycling Hall of Fame from the past 25 years

 

And I say 25 years because my memory does not extend beyond 1985 or so. :)

But basically I was just curious to hear what parameters would be used and what riders would ultimately merit inclusion into your personal cycling hall of fame?  Would victory in at least one grand tour be necessary to qualify? (If so great riders like Johan Museeuw and Erik Breukink would find themsleves out in the cold)  Would a rider like Breukink even qualify in your book? (3 grand podiums in the late 80's/early 90's)  Would your personal standards be so high that only the very elite of the elite (namely riders like Indurain, Lemond, Kelly, Armstrong, Contador, etc.)  would make the cut. 

Personally I'm willing to include riders who consistently excelled in all types of races, the grand tours, the one day races, the sprints, TT's and the one week races.

So, with that in mind, here would be my cycling hall of fame from 1985 onward: (and in no particular order)

1) Greg Lemond

2) Miguel Indurain

3) Lance Armstrong

4) Alberto Contador

5) Moreno Argentin

6) Johan Museeuw

7) Sean Kelly

8) Mario Cipollini

9) Mark Cavendish

10) Laurent Fignon

11) Laurent Jalabert

12) Pedro Delgado

13) Gianni Bugno

14) Tony Rominger

15) Fabian Cancellara

16) Paolo Bettini

17) Oscar Freire

18) Alejandro Valverde

19) Marco Pantani

20) Jan Ullrich

 

Some omissions that I felty needed explanations:

Stephen Roche  - He had one incredible year in 1987 but aside from that he was dogged by injuries and never even finished in the top 5 of a grand tour again. 

Claude Criquielion - Very consistent in the one day classics throughout the 80's, particularly the Ardennes, but he lacked a great sprint and was seemingly always a little weaker than Moreno Argentin who was the master in those races.

Michele Bartoli - Very strong in the late 90's but his career was ruined by a nasty crash in the Tour of Germany in 1999.  Made a decent recovery afterwards but was never the same rider again.

Claudio Chiappucci - Very aggressive rider who like Criquielion also suffered from a poor sprint.  His career reached its apex in 1992 with that incredible stage victory in Sestrieres, but after that it was a steady decline in the grand tours.  He won Milan San Remo and San Sebastian, but not much else.

Andy Schleck - A work in progress.  He still needs to close the deal and win a grand tour, which might prove difficult since he seems determined to focus all his energies on beating Contador at the Tour.  His Liege victory was very impressive, and if he can improve his TT skills he can be the total package.

Michael Boogerd - Very consistent, but not enough big victories

Alexandre Vinokourov - Had one outstanding year in 2003, and of course his Tour of Spain victory 2006 and Liege Bastogne Liege victory in 2005, but aside from those victories not much else in the big races.

Damiano Cunego - Like Schleck, he's still a work in progress.  4 one day classic victories and a grand tour win is impressive, but he needs to win Liege or the Worlds one day to take his place alongside Argentin and Bettini as one of great Italian single day riders.

Maurizio Fondriest - Incredible in 1993, and victory in the world in 1988, but back problems and Laurent Jalabert ruined the remainder of his career.

Roberto Heras - 3 victories in the Tour of Spain, but what else?

So, that would be my list of Hall of Famers and near misses from the past 25 years, anyone else want to share their thoughts?

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How about Alex Zulle?

Twice winner of the Vuelta. Twice finished 2nd at the Tour. Won the World Time Trial Championships.Won stages in all 3 Grand Tours. Fair enough he’s got no classics pedigree but sure neither did the likes of Ullrich or Pantani.

http://www.irishpeloton.com/

by irishpeloton on Nov 17, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

How about Alex Zulle?

Twice winner of the Vuelta. Twice finished 2nd at the Tour. Won the World Time Trial Championships.Won stages in all 3 Grand Tours. Fair enough he’s got no classics pedigree but sure neither did the likes of Ullrich or Pantani.

http://www.irishpeloton.com/

by irishpeloton on Nov 17, 2009 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

Zulle was a close call for me

He did win two grand tours, just like Pantani and Ullrich, but those riders distinguished themselves more by winning a Tour de France. Zulle was very similar to another rider of his generation Abraham Olano in that both were very good all arounders who IMO spent too much time chasing an impossible Tour win when they should have been focusing on the shorter one week races like Paris Nice and the Tour of Switzerland which suited them perfectly.

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

Another near miss for me would be Marino Lejarreta

One of the only men in recent memory to compete in all 3 grand tours in the same year and finish in the top 5 in all 3, he was pretty much the Criquielon of the grand tours, very consistent but lacking that little bit extra to get the big win.

Also, another name I forgot would be Tom Boonen. I’ve never really followed his career but based on his major victories I might have committed an error in not including his name. :(

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 11:24 AM EST reply actions  

Where is Erik Zabel?

Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill (F. Coppi)

by MathieuG on Nov 17, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

I didn't give Zabel much consideration

I know he dominated the green jersey in the tour for like 30 years but aside from his Milan San Remo victories (an impressive 4 I should add) where are his other major victories? Amstel is noteworthy, but unlike Cipo and Freire he failed to get the coveted Rainbow jersey. And he had plenty of decent opportunities, if non-climbers like Vainstains and Cipo were able to pull off a Worlds victory during that period Zabel should have been able to as well.

If it’s any consolation he would certainly be in my sprinters hall of fame. :)

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

Zabel should he over Cavendish as of right now because of...

20 GT stages and 8 points jerseys, 4 San Remo’s, 3 Paris-Tours, 13 6-day overall wins, an Amstel Gold win, The Hamburg Cyclassics win, and a bunch of other stages and points jerseys along with an overall World Cup win in 2000

by Vlaanderen90 on Nov 17, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Where the heck is Tom Boonen?

no way Cavendish should be ahead of a guy who has won 5(!) monuments. There is no way that one GT win qualifies you for this list either because that is just leaving out some of the best riders on the planet i.e. Cancellara, Boonen, Museeuw, etc.

You would have to separate this list into certain categories maybe but this list should be filled with more names than it is.

by Vlaanderen90 on Nov 17, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

I included Museeuw and Cance and erred by not originally including Boonen

And I guess i’m being a little presumptuous by including Cavendish but his dominating results in such a short period of time (Milan San Remo, complete domination of the Giro and Tour in the sprints) at such a young age indicate he’s a once in a lifetime talent, like Cipo.

And sorry, but despite his consistency and the long list of grand tour stage victories Zabel just does not merit inclusion IMO, had he won a single rainbow jersey it would have been a different story.

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, I didn't state that one grand tour win would net you a place in the hall

If so I would have included one tour wonders like Mauri and Berzin. I was just asking others if they felt winning at least one grand tour should be part criteria for gaining access to this list. I didn’t hold riders to this standard since I included Cance and Museeuw amongst others.

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Gibo!!

2 Giro wins and what, 4+ Giro podiums???
In addition he’s won on some of the most storied climbs in the sport…Angliru, Zoncolan, Mt. Faron. Plus HE’S GIBO!!

by Angliru on Nov 17, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions  

Deeeer JAN! also had to be on the list than

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 17, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL!

Gibo was a great rider in this prime, but like Heras in Spain, what did he accomplish outside of his home country? Ok, he won the Angliru stage of the Vuelta, and a stage of the Tour, but no other top 3 grand tour performances outside of the Giro. That’s not going to get it done if you want to be in this exclusive company. :(

Also, I’d probably opt for Carlos Sastre before I put Gibo in.

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 1:03 PM EST reply actions  

Filter of time needed.

Personally, I don’t think anyone should be in a “Hall of Fame” until their career is over and their accomplishments have had a chance to be measured in their entirety. For that reason, I would not (yet) include Cavendish, Cancellara, Boonen, Contador, or even Armstrong. Undoubtedly, many of these will have stellar careers. Of course, Lance is a shoe-in, as he has already made history with record TdF wins. Even so, I say let time have its chance to do its work. When he retires—for good—then we can talk.

Then there’s the question of doping. If one has been caught doping, should they be permanently banned from a “Hall of Fame?” Maybe they could be in the “Hall of Infamy.” I’m talking about the likes of Vino and Landis. Maybe even Ulrich and Riis. ???

Yes, I know this is no official Hall of Fame, but if you want my list those are the rules I’d go by.

Oh, and I would include stellar domestiques, like Hincapie and Voigt…after they retire, of course. Team leaders aren’t the only winners, even though they get to wear the jersey.

by MaestroDon on Nov 17, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn't include domestiques

I know cycling is a team sport, and without a team to sacrifice itself for its leader nothing would ever be accomplished, but riders like Hincapie and Voight (both great riders by the way) just don’t deserve to have their named mentioned in the same sentence with the likes of Indurain and Bettini and Armstrong.

It would be like inducting a full-back/running back unit in tandem to the NFL hall of fame because the running back broke every rushing record known to man and the full-back usually happened to be standing in front of him when he worked his magic on the field. If the fullback is there on his own merit then great, but he can’t ride the coattails of his greater teammate to a place as exclusive as the hall of fame.

Per the whole wait till a rider is retired point, I agree for the most part. I think I just included Cavendish because I felt like the current peleton was underrepresented on my list, so I threw his name in. It should have been Boonen instead. In Armstrong’s case he may still be active but he’s a slam dunk hall of famer nonetheless, love him or hate him.

And doping? I personally don’t give much thought to that here. Of course many of these riders doped, some were caught others got off scott free, but my list for the most part rewards riders who excelled over the long term, and if a rider was able to achieve that I would personally give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doping.

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

The reason I created

the Top 25 and 50 Cyclists of the Modern Era project was to provide a framework from which these types of questions could be answered without my emotions coming into play.

I know some of the PdC gang are already quite familiar with TheVirtualMusette.com, but there are also many of you that still haven’t seen the fairly detailed point scoring system developed to rank the all time greats.
I’ll be posting the end of year results for the Top 50, along with the point totals for most of the other current star riders in the next few days.

Only the following have enough points to crack Top 50 post 1985 (Ranked in their order of apperance from the “master” list, along with their point totals):

7. Sean Kelly 146.5
10. Lance Armstrong 116.5
13. Miguel Indurain 98
17. Tony Rominger 89.5
18. Laurent Jalabert 88.5
21. Erik Zabel 81
25. Greg Lemond 65
26. Mario Cipollini 63
28. Laurent Fignon 58
31. Paolo Bettini 55
33. Johan Museeuw 53
34. Jan Ullrich 52
35. Alberto Contador 52
38. Moreno Argentin 48.5
39. Stephen Roche 48.5
41. Claudio Chiapucci 48
42. Gianni Bugno 47.5
44. Alex Zulle 46
45. Michele Bartoli 44
46. Alessandro Petacchi 43
48. Tom Boonen 42
50. Charly Mottet 41

by The Team Chef on Nov 17, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

I've been waiting for the end of year results with baited breath

Bert’s moving up the Master List like he did on the Angrilu.

How far out of the top 50 are Valverde and Cancellara?

by ursula on Nov 18, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm done with the article

but I just have to dress it up with photos.

Sneak peek:

Valverde is at #51 with 40 points, so he’s only 1 point away from Charly Mottet. A couple of stage wins in a GT, or victory in a classic or semi-classic, and he’s there.

Cance sits at #62 with 26 points; it’s a long way to the Top 50. He may need a few seasons to get there.

You’ll like the new post, as I’ve included quite a few new faces and their point totals.

by The Team Chef on Nov 18, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

From 94 through 99

Pantani was simply untouchable in the mountains. He had that terrible injury at Milan Turin just when his career was gaining momentum, missed almost all of 1996, and still returned in 97 to finish 3rd in the Tour and win two mountain stages. He may not have accumulated as many points as a rider like Zabel, but he certainly made a much bigger impression on the sport.

by Fernando on Nov 20, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Especially his dead...

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 20, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Hard to understand how Roche would be ahead of Bugno

Bugno won 2 of the great one day monuments, Flanders and Milan San Remo. He also won the Worlds twice, won the Giro, and finished on the podium of the Tour fe France on two separate occasions. We could also list his two victories on Alpe D’Huez, the Italian Championship (also twice) and the Wincanton Classic. Bugno also won the World Cup competition in 1990.

Outside of 1987 I have trouble coming up with any results for Roche. I know he won Paris Nice very early on his career, and finished 3rd in the Tour in 1985, but after 1987 he had some pretty lean years. And no Delgago? :(

by Fernando on Nov 17, 2009 4:19 PM EST reply actions  

There is only a one point difference

between Roche and Bugno, so those two have pretty evenly matched palmares. I do think you are looking past quite a few of Roche’s accomplishments:
‘87 Gold WC RR
’83 Bronze WC RR
’81 Paris Nice
’83, ’84, ’87 Tour of Romandy
’85, ’91 Criterium Int’l
’89 Tour of the Basque Country
’90 4 Days of Dunkirk
’91 Catalan Week
’87 Tour de France
’87 Giro
’85 3rd Tour de France
5 GT stage wins
’87 Super Prestige Pernod Trophy (Season long competition).

I am no Roche fan, but wins are wins. He scored more points than Bugno. What can I say. Bugno would have easily outpaced him, but he didn’t have much success in minor stage races, and that’s where the difference was made.

Delgado only scored 21 points in his career; he’s not even remotely close to cracking the Top 50.

Here is a good place to check if you’d like to see year by year results for any given rider (forewarned, it’s French).

Here is another (although it’s not up to date with current riders).

by The Team Chef on Nov 17, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Way better list

here in my mind. The Cavendish inclusion and Zabel omission alone makes the original list suspect. Would have liked to see Cav against Zabel, Cipo and them in their prime.

The original list seems quite odd. Cavendish was hot last year. Remember the short interval when Boonen won Ronde, PR, worlds and Green Jersey? He was at least as dominant. No rider not around for at least 6 or 7 years should be even thought of for the list.

by Markk on Nov 18, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

... and in comptetion for that last spot

Andy Hampsten.

One Giro win, one Giro 3rd, two TDF fourths, 2 Tour de Suisse, one Tour de Romandie and the Alpe d Huez.

I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro

by thevaro on Nov 17, 2009 10:55 PM EST reply actions  

Hampsten continued ...

and two wins at the “Subida a Urkiola”. I didn’t list it because I wasn’t sure it was a big race but I just checked the list of the winners and there are some pretty big names in the list.

I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro

by thevaro on Nov 17, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Andy was a great, consistent climber

But he was nowhere to be seen in the big classics, couldn’t TT that well, and would often struggle in the final week of grand tours. For three consecutive years (87-89) he was a non-factor in the Tour. He did win that memorable Giro in 88 and finished 3rd the following year, so he was obviously a man for the Giro.

by Fernando on Nov 18, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Outside of 1987 (which was probably one of the greatest single year’s achieved by any rider in cycling history) what did Stephen Roche accomplish? OK, he won the Tour of the Pays Basque, Paris Nice and a stage at the Tour in 1992 but never again did he even finish in the top 5 of a grand tour. Or a World Championship road race….or a major single day classic.

Valverde has been runner up at the Worlds twice, has a Vuelta victory, two Dauphine victories, 3 stages of the Tour, 3 Ardennes classic victories and a TON of victories in these smaller Spanish stage races. He also won the Pro Tour twice. He’s not even 30 years of age and he’s already approaching 60 wins for his career.

I liked Roche a lot when I was growing up, mostly because of his unforgettable 1987 season, but after that he was injured most of the time and anonymous in the big stage races. He may be one of more overrated cyclists in past 20 or 30 years.

by Fernando on Nov 18, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Cavendish over Jalabert

are you kidding?

Where’s Zabel, Zuelle, Rebellin (ups…), Chiapucci?

by Grzdylu on Nov 18, 2009 6:59 AM EST reply actions  

What do you mean over?

I put both Jaja and Cavendish on the list, and the number order doesn’t indicate superiority of one rider over another….it’s just a random order.

I also explained above why I would not put Zuelle, Zabel or Chiappucci on such a list.

by Fernando on Nov 18, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Is this a joke?

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Nov 18, 2009 7:25 AM EST reply actions  

Other than the inclusion of Cavendish...

Tell me how this list can be perceived by anyone that knows anything about cycling as a “joke”? Incomplete yes, but a “joke”? Hardly. I’d like to see how you’d improve it…

by Fernando on Nov 18, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions  

Your working a tough room!

I like your list even if I might disagree with some of it. We can spend the whole winter arguing till Het Newsbladder.

by ursula on Nov 18, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell me about it!

I’ve got these hit and run critics that flippantly call my list a “joke” and then don’t even have the courtesy to explain how they’d improve upon it. :(

by Fernando on Nov 19, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Oooo....

Take Cipo, Delgado and Pantani off the list to start with…

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Nov 19, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

So take the two top climbers of the 80's and 90's off the list?

Plus another rider in Cipo that won close to 200 races in his career, plus Milan San Remo, plus the Worlds? I didn’t much care for some of Cipo’s antics either, but he was the best pure sprinter I’ve seen, with guys like Zabel, Van Poppel and Abdu competing for a very distant second.

by Fernando on Nov 20, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Your list made me think about what is a "Hall of Fame".

    If a hall of fame is merely a compilation of of statistics then it becomes cold and distant from what many people love about cycling. I think what many love is the legends and lore, the things that put a human face on the sport. If your Hall of Fame has just the legends then perhaps you’ve created a place where someone will always be disappointed that their hero might be left out for no good reason.
    If you look at The Team Chef’s post where he lists 25 greats he tells you a few things that should be helpful. First he stated that he created a points system where he could remove his emotion from where riders rank on his list. Whether you agree with his list or not really is a function of agreeing or not with his system, you can’t argue with the numbers.
    I haven’t gotten the sense that your list holds fast and true to any set of criteria, and I think others share that feeling. You have asked people to comment on what parameters they would use but again you haven’t really set forth a solid set of criteria. That is why there have been “hit and run critics”. IMO a good “Hall of Fame” will include a quantifiable as well as subjective elements. The trick is in balancing the two, and because you’ve now included the human element there will always be emotions involved no matter how perfect your system.
    And like Ursula said, “You’re working a tough room.”, so it’s not going to be an easy task.

"Drawing on my fine command of language I said nothing."- Groucho

by Mark Frank on Nov 20, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

You are right

I didn’t initially put forth any set criteria in judging these riders. However if you look at some of my later comments here (partcularly in the section that dealt with riders who I felt didn’t merit inclusion) a couple of recurring themes are mentioned:

1) Longevity (Aside from Cav and perhaps Contador, almost everyone else on that list was dominant for at least 5+ years) This is why I refused to include Roche on my list

2) Every rider on my list (except Cav, AC, Delgago and Pantani) won at least 2 of the following 3: one grand tour and/or a World Championship and/or a major one day classic. Zabel didn’t make my cut because he while he was dominant in the green jersey competition in the Tour and the Milan San Remo race for 4 or 5 years he never won a single world championship. Yet other journeyman types like Igor Astarloa and Roman Vainstains did. This is a major blemish on Zabel’s record IMO, many of the courses in the World’s from the early 2000’s seemed ideal for a rider of his characteristics yet a win never materialized. And the “weak team” argument doesn’t work in his defense since Vainstains rode for team Latvia (or was it Lithuania?) and still won.

3) Complete dominance in the grand tours (Whether in the sprints or in the mountains) Riders like Delgado or Pantai may not have won a World Championship or a single day classic but they absolutely dominated in their respective specialities for more then 4 or 5 years. Ditto for Cipo. Sure he was a wimp for abandoning the Tour every year before the race hit the mountains but you could always count on him to win the sprints he did contest. And when a favorable World course in Zolder presented itself he didn’t miss his opportunity, he took it.

by Fernando on Nov 20, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

If we all agreed - life would be boring !

Good Post !

Valverde ? He’s lucky the Spanish have trouble changing bicycle tires

 … at a bicycle race. :-)

I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro

by thevaro on Nov 18, 2009 10:28 PM EST reply actions  

Nice list...

And interesting questions. Ultimately it’s quite subjective, because balancing a rider’s brilliance (e.g. Roche) against their longevity and their versatility is a subjective judgment. Points systems can help a lot, but the points ratings of the different races are themselves are a subjective judgment.

I WOULD include Roche on my Hall of Fame even if he had done nothing outside of that one great season—it was just too remarkable to ignore. Cav, on the other hand… he’s been very dominant, but the accomplishments just aren’t as significant… yet. Cancellara, I’m a little doubtful because his biggest accomplishments are as a specialist, but he’s been brilliant and consistent, plus—now it gets REALLY subjective—he’s just such a classy rider.

by tgartner on Nov 20, 2009 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

I put Cance in...

mostly because the guy is a monster on every terrain. Wins in races as diverse as Paris Roubaix, Milan San Remo and the Tour of Switzerland, plus all the crono wins at such a young age, he’s such an incredible talent. Like Cav as well. Personally speaking, for as long as my memory extends, I can only recall a couple of sprinters who were pretty much unbeatable: Cipo and Cav.

Zabel would give Cipo a run for this money, and would occasionally get the better of him, but if you check out their head to head confrontations in the Tour, Cipo would usually best him the majority of the time. Cav has that same burst of speed and power as well, he just needs to show the same longevity that Cipo demonstrated in his career.

by Fernando on Nov 20, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I agreee that a Hall of Fame should have retired riders only

And a deliberate cooling off period. As well it should have multiple voters to help individuals avoid their own blind spots.

This means that if a large number of voters feel that Zabel and Roche are worthy then yours would be a dissenting vote, but they would be in. If there is no group of voters it is not a Hall of Fame, simply a collection of one persons favourite riders.

I also feel that a rider like Jens is more that worthy of mention in the same sentence as Indurain. Big Mig won more, but a talent like jens is hard to quantify. If the greatest Headbangers and Mile chewers cannot get recognition in a hall of fame then it lacks something important that makes cycling great.

by bought with blood on Nov 20, 2009 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

Voigt versus Indurain?...

No way…I am sorry but Jens! is a guy who is powerful and a good domestique but he should not be in the same sentence as Indurain. He is really a footnote compare to the dominance that Indurain had in the TT. Putting 3 minutes into 2nd place in a Tour TT?

I agree that great domestiques should be recognized but you can’t put guys that just sit on the front all day for 100 miles then pull off and coast to the finish into a hall of fame. A lot of guys have had the same tenacity as him but with less chance to shine in races such as Sean Yates.

by Vlaanderen90 on Nov 20, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Jens Voight too

He’s a terrific talent who could have been a very successful team leader in his own right, but it’s called racing for a reason, and Jens just hasn’t won enough major races to be on par with an Indurain or Lemond.

My personal feeling is that any such hall of fame in sports should reward the elite of the elite, the riders who will never be forgotten. Jens may be canonized by his teammates but do you really think people will remember him in half a century when his top wins were the Criterium Internacional? (albeit like 4 or 5 times lol)

by Fernando on Nov 20, 2009 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

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