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'10 Tour: Cav Wants The Green, But Can He Take It?

Ever since next year's Tour route was announced and probably well before, Mark Cavendish has proclaimed his intentions of winning the Green Jersey that Thor Hushovd won last year. Of course, the God of Thunder's fashion sense has told him that Green will still be In next year so he'd like to keep it too. Then there's the like-minded Green obsessions of Ale-Jet, Benna, The Wenatchee Whippet, and several other Fast Men. All these guys want to wear Green next year! They're obsessed-like Bella Swan obsessed!  And since she (Bella) lives in Forks, Washington, one of the greenest places on earth, I can just imagine these sprinters making treks this winter to Forks in hopes that one of Edward Cullen's sisters would fall MASSIVELY in love with them. (They, of course, would want nothing more than to passively love one of these stupid, stupid vampires, who, they imagine, would turn THEM into an immortal and (important!) ridiculously fast vampire so they could win the Green Jersey hundreds of times over and spend the rest of their undead existence passively obsessing over their vampire wife. The ultimate PED!)

Yeah that was one long run-on sentence. Sue me. I live in a world where millions upon millions of girls and women swoon over the Twilight books. Like there's nothing better to do in the world than to have no inner drive to do anything original at all. If that ain't heck, I don't know what is. And I am just waiting for some writer to finally capitalize upon the fact that most men fantasize a similar passive existence. "Why the hell would I want to examine my life?  I just want to be... wanted!" 

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I feel a little better. On the flip we'll write about Cav's chances for the Points Jersey. 

Star-divide

So Cav wants a Green Jersey. Isn't that nice. Any chance he can earn one though? Let's figure this out. To do that we must first note what he did this year:

Cav finished 2nd this year to Thor, 270 points to 280. Along the way he won those six stages: 2,3,10,11, 19, and 21. He also finished 3rd on stage 5, 16th on stage 6, and 8th on stage 12. All together, that's serious pointage. Enough to win the Points in 08 and 07. So what happened?

Cav's fans would first point out his relegation on stage 14. Remember? What a stage! This was the stage that had the breakaway with Hincapie in it which left St's Paul's and Phil's hearts all aflutter that George might be wearing the Yellow jersey at the end of the day-until Evil Garmin helped AG2R almost chase down the break. Almost, I say, as Ivanov took a late flyer to win the thing while the other eleven riders in the breakaway also finished ahead of the peloton. When said peloton finished, Columbia's heart broke all the harder as Cavendish's 12th place finish, and first in the peloton, was judged to be the result of him not keeping his line and he was relegated to the back, thus losing 14 points all told to Thor-which is more than the final point spread in their competition.

That relegation was a heartbreaker, but it wasn't the only reason why Cav came up short. Cavendish also never contested any intermediate sprints, something Thor did a couple of times, most famously on stage 17, the mountain stage to La Grand Bornand. In retrospect, i seemed like last year Cav was mainly focused on winning stages as opposed to the Green Jersey.

But what about 2010? If he says he's going for the Green, might that mean he might look for some intermediate sprint point action? One would hope so and if so that would make his chances all the better. If so, then does he have this competition in the bag?

Not so fast my friend! There's one factor that will make it harder while another factor that will complicate the competition.

The thing that will lower his chances is the fact that there are only nine flat stages (per ASO) and only five definite winnable stages, with a possibility of three more (per Cav).  So it looks like there's fewer bunch sprint wins out there for Cav. Plus there are more medium mountain stages next year than this: four as compared to one. PLUS there's two hilly stages next year while there were no such classified stages this year. PLUS PLUS, like last year's stage to Barcelona where Cab finished 16th on the uphill finish (which Thor won) we are not at all sure that Cav will be contesting a bunch sprint on the cobbled stage three. All this means that it looks like there could be fewer stages next year for Cav to pile up points by winning bunch sprints.  Not good, especially considering that he won't have Hincapie to escort him to the line. (It must be said though that Columbia should be able to replace George.)

But the complicating factor might help out Cav. Simply put, next year's Points competition should be more contested then this year's two man race. Cav and Thor will be present next year, but in addition so will a) Petacchi, who should have a Lampre train dedicated to him, b) Farrar, who improved from month to month last year and so should be better next July, c) Bennati, who might rediscover his top gear now that he's a year away from his last injuries, d) Ciolek, who was sick last year and not at full strength, e) EBH who will be looking to snag any complicated (hillier) stages, and f) guys like Boonen, Haussler, and Pozzato, etc. who could well ride away with the cobbled stage.

So it looks like next year's Points competition looks more complicated. That could favor Cavendish if he takes care of business in winning the simpler flat stages while the other riders cancel each other out on the more difficult days. Part of why Hushovd won last year was because it was a two man race only and he only had to worry (much) about Cavendish.  But basically a wide open Points competition could favor Cav since he has more of a chance to win more stages than any other rider. IF he has the same superior form compared to his sprinting competition like he did this year-and that's not a given.

I can't decide yet if Cavendish will win the Points competition next year.  You?

Poll
How likely are Cavendish's chances?
100% guaranteed he will win
7 votes
90-100% likely
24 votes
75-90% chance. He (or Zoe or Phil) should win it.
35 votes
50-75% He's more likely than anyone else
85 votes
25-50% The competition is wiiiiiide open. But he has a good chance
38 votes
10-25% It's a toss up with several riders
7 votes
0-10% chance. Slim and none.
3 votes

199 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 77 comments |

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Comments

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I like his chances

I think Cav will be there on the cobbled stage 3. It’s one of those things he can get through if he puts his mind to it, and it’s not like he has no experience riding well on the cobbles. He was up there at Ghent-Wevelgem in 2008, just didn’t sprint. I think he’ll do a few bumpy races to prep.

EBH has a decent chance, but only if the bunch stays together over some of the hard transition stages. He can win major points there, but I like the odds of breakaways stealing most of his potential points. It also depends on how much he gets involved in the sprints at the end of flat stages. He won’t beat Cav, but he’s made noises about being excited to take Cav on. If he’s in the top 5 on all bunch sprints he’ll be a threat.

Boonen? Meh. He won’t sprint enough to make up for anything he gets on stage 3, which I think is a long shot. Haussler will be too busy leading out Thor, and Pippo? Not quite buying it. The other sprinters, though, have good chances of giving him a run, especially Thor and Tyler. Thanks for the good preview!

by dansel on Nov 24, 2009 1:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

There are no cobbles in the last 60km or so in GW.

So don’t think you can can give him the cobbles just for that.

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 24, 2009 3:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember the G-W from 2008...

he was sprinting but then went an moaned about how there were too many people up there sprinting and that they need to learn there place even though it was a one day classic….

He will probably get it but you never know.

by Vlaanderen90 on Nov 24, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cav will win because it's about the only thing he hasn't won yet

and he will be bored.

Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy

by Phil H. on Nov 24, 2009 2:00 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Who is Ge?
75-90% chance. Ge should win it.

The Typo Police. So sue me.

by ZoeRochelle on Nov 24, 2009 2:04 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Great Britain's Elvis?

Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy

by Phil H. on Nov 24, 2009 2:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh gawd

(Skip opens the PdC hood; knocks a couple things with a screwdriver.)

There! You like the poll now?

by ursula on Nov 24, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yep!

You are much faster than Phil.

by ursula on Nov 24, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There is no arguing that from me

but notice how once you put our names under “he should win it” suddenly there were far fewer votes for that category, people seem not to have faith in mine or Zoe’s chances at winning green….I don’t know why.

Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy

by Phil H. on Nov 24, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In 2010

there is an Alps stage very similar to the 2009 Alps stage 17 (lots and lots of fairly big climbs) where Thor jumped ahead and locked up Green. The stage even has Col de la Colombiere again – and a couple more medium climbs before Madeleine.

It would be exciting if Thor did a runner off the front again … and interesting to see if Cav could/would follow.

Cav looked decidely depressed that day riding in the grupetto.

Moo

by Willj on Nov 24, 2009 3:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think that there is a really really good chance he will win.

but Hincapie is straight up irreplaceable in that train. He was the conductor. Not to mention his help dragging Cav up the climbs in San Remo. Name another rider with the grit and experience of GH who will lay it down for someone else.

by Davide Don of Rio on Nov 24, 2009 8:38 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Uuuh... He was a big help for Cavendish but me think

Renshaw was the strongest piece in the chain.. Serious.. Everybody in the slipstream of Renshaw is almost certainly a winner.. Ask EBH

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 24, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Eisel is the closest replacement

Guy who is a sprinter type himself who is all for teamwork. He’ll be the one to step up and fill that leadership gap I think.

by dansel on Nov 24, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They have no stance!!!!!

And the poo bahs spend A LOT of time around Forks too.

Hmmmm.

by ursula on Nov 24, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vampires...

the new zombies? Just sayin.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

twilight of the zombie-vampire beccoes?

Somewhere Nietzsche is cringing, and not just because he had Gerdemann on his Uber-Zombie-Philozopher-Mensch VDS squad.

by R Mc on Nov 24, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At the very very end of the race I agree

But GH was the MAN from 5k in. Renshaw was the strongest because he had the power to blow everyone away right up to the line. No one else has a last man standing like that, which is why he will remain dominant. At the same time, there are plenty of Cav wins that can be attributed to the more experienced guys in that train pulling it all back together from farther out, many of which Columbia lost.

by Davide Don of Rio on Nov 24, 2009 8:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

They still have Rogers, who was also strong in the train..

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 24, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

like I said

they will remain dominant, but Hincapie is not replaceable.

by Davide Don of Rio on Nov 24, 2009 9:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Noone, not even Big George, is irreplaceable

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 24, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're allowed. Love George, but he's a man not a god :)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 24, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

has nothing to do with that.

how can you say every rider is replaceable. Can you replace Eddy, Lance, Bert, Cance? Nop. The logic behind that just makes no sense. Yes, those are some of the best riders of all time, but Hincapie was one of the best helpers of all time. There are riders who will always be better than the rest in whatever role they serve and the chances of someone being able to come in and just fill that gap makes no sense. This is without even considering the factor of time. Uber domestiques dont exactly come out of no where, their rep is usually built from years of experience and dedication to whatever cause. So no, you cant just replace shit like that.

by Davide Don of Rio on Nov 24, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't disagree with you about George's strengths

but I believe absolutely that everyone is replaceable. Difference in philosophy I think. (PS. My favoutite uber domestique is O’Grady. I get what you’re saying).

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 24, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine my surprise ;)

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 24, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As we say in Holland..

Their are a lot non replaceables on the graveyard..

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 24, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There!

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 24, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair,

I never heard that expression before.

by tedvdw on Nov 24, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

.......

“Het kerkhof ligt vol met onvervangbare personen”

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 24, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I figured it was something like that but I never heard it.

by tedvdw on Nov 24, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Serious?! Woow.. I'm shocked.

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 24, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wel deze

“Aardig? Aardig?! Met aardige mensen dumpen we de gracht!”

by tedvdw on Nov 24, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

dump in the canal?

You guys are op de hoek…

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Got it first go ;-)

But carry on – it’s fun watching you talk amongst yourself, LOL. (Bonus points for arguing with self, BTW. I believe that we have witnessed such an argument before…).

Wise lot, you Dutch. It is a good point :-)

by Lou... on Nov 26, 2009 5:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You mean you actually know whether George is replaceable or irreplaceable in Frinking's eyes? Legend!

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 26, 2009 5:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rogers is strong

But he never pack-surfed while trying to make it as a sprinter like George did in his early days. George has a big motor but by far his biggest strength is his experience.

by dansel on Nov 24, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Renshaw

Tyler Farrar was asked in his talk here who the best leadout guys are. He said Julian Dean and Renshaw. Any time a Garmin sprinter singles out the excellence of a Columbia setup guy…

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What Cavendish really needs is for some other pure sprinters to step up a bit, so that he can have more people placing between him and Hushovd.

That, and his team not playing silly shenanigans. If Columbia had been sensible and brought back the Hincapie break, Cavendish would have won the jersey comfortably.

by William H on Nov 24, 2009 9:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1

And there will be more Class A sprinters this time. So potentially your scenario will happen. I figure that we’ll see two trains, Columbia’s and Lampre’s.

But the question will be with more sprinters (and some of them, like Farrar) improved, will Cav automatically record win after win?

by ursula on Nov 24, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More Class A's?

I don’t think a agree. Farrar maybe will step up, but it’s dubious as to how much support he’ll have. Thor initially came out and said the Tour wasn’t a priority this year, then presumedly after his team reminded him that Cervelo doesn’t have an automatic invite and a non-commited Green Jersey wasn’t helping their case, he changed his tune a bit. GHH, EBH, Swift, et al sure look good but haven’t proven anything yet. Talking out my ass, I’d say if Cav is going to face any competition, it’s not going to be from a sprinter. I’d say someone like Kirchen, if he isn’t focused on GC, could make a pretty good run at it this year.

Tickets are bought, Belgium here I come!

by jsallee00 on Nov 24, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe more like win win - miss - win win - miss

I could live with that consistency – would be just enough to keep us on the edge of our seats.

by dansel on Nov 24, 2009 9:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Probably gonna reveal my naiveté

But I don’t associate the Green Jersey with young guns, even world beaters like Cavendish. Seems that the race long focus and commitment to doing the work suits some notion of maturity. Zabel and McEwen both got theirs about 10 years in.

On that topic, one thing that George had that Columbia might not replace so easily is the respect Cav had for him. Thinking of that Livestrong clip where Cav said that George had “baller style.”

by mychal on Nov 24, 2009 10:33 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

It’s not just about winning the sprints, though certainly, a bucket of stage wins won’t hurt.

by gavia on Nov 24, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We all know, and saw...

..that heroic (for a sprinter) stage (17, I believe) this last year when Thor took off to snatch enough points in the mountains to win the jersey. That takes experience, guts, strength, combative instinct (he won combatant award), and a team that will support him doing that. I’m not so sure Cav has all of that.

I would love to see Cav take green. I would also love to see Thor repeat. I really do enjoy the green jersey battle. My vote is 25-50%. He’s got a good chance, but the stars have to line up just right.

by MaestroDon on Nov 24, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

for sure. Old Guys Rule in France.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks to Jens

for posting the link to the EBH interview. I suspect Boasson Hagen is prepared to make a serious run at green. As long as Wiggins stays put, Sky won’t have much else to do at the Tour, since Lovkvist doesn’t warrant full support for the GC. If this is a rolling course overall, then the pure sprinters have no particular advantage. EBH could score huge points day after day, including top 5’s in the sprint stages. I would love to see this happen for a couple reasons. First, it would serve as a nice reminder about what the maillot vert is about, or at least balance out the sprinting influence. Secondly, EBH’s priorities might shift toward GC someday (not sure, but hey), so while he is still building his body this would be a nice goal.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

He might be able to go for green but it could be how it was with the Giro this year when he got into the points but then slipped back

after the half way point. I don’t know if he has the stamina yet to duke it out with other guys day after day because he has to be ready everyday for points. I don’t think he will ever climb well enough for GC but he should be able to win buckets of stage wins.

by Vlaanderen90 on Nov 24, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps

he should be more prepared this year. As the ace for Sky, he can set his calendar further in advance. In the past I think he’s been sweating out starts in GTs. Not any more.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Columbia made him work for other goals (e.g. Cav). Also not a problem with Sky.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Nov 24, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amd EBH's VDS costs just went up another 5 points.

Just sayin’: you want him? You’ll pay a premium then.

by ursula on Nov 24, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's going to be the worst bargain next year!

(Says the number 155 from this year)

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 25, 2009 6:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

BAH!

BAH! . . . . BAH Cavendish. . . . BAH!

I vote BAH!

"Drawing on my fine command of language I said nothing."- Groucho

by Mark Frank on Nov 24, 2009 8:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That reminds.. Where is Rbjhan?

Is she out for a winterbreak?

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 25, 2009 6:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I say normal

the votes are forming a normal distribution, so no conclusion from the votes we are not skewed towards any result. interesting.

Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!

by perezbike on Nov 24, 2009 9:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If it's a normal distribution

assumption must be the mean. Which is “He’s more likely than anybody else”.

Looks like Cav has it thanks to the statistics gods.

by dansel on Nov 25, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's just the gods like Thor he has to worry about then...

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 25, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well yes

if it was 50% (instead of 50 to 70) you would still get to the same conclusion unless your are considering that it will be a 2 man battle like this year with each one of them with the same chance.

anyway I was trying to say that despite that there is not a majority of us that positively think he has it.

Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!

by perezbike on Nov 26, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You and me both

I am NOT going to Google it, though… I suspect that my life may be no richer for knowing…

by Lou... on Nov 26, 2009 5:32 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's richer for the rant, but don't touch the books!

"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'

by Seahorse on Nov 26, 2009 5:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well.. there is a small chance that he is doing nothing this year..

We had some sprint era’s.. (As long as I can remember.. Not that long)

1. First you had Cip/Zabel..
2. Petacchi/Zabel after them
3. Boonen/Mcewen/Hushovd/Petacchi (all for a short period)
4. Cavendish

Now it’s the question.. Is Cavendish for a short period or is he the next Zabel? Cipo? Peta?

No research done so facts may be off

What do you fear most?
1. coup d’etat
2. putsch

by Frinking on Nov 25, 2009 6:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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