Liquigas 2010: Shades of T-Mobile?
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 1, 2009 1:22 PM EST
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Photo by Robert Laberge, Getty Images Sport
Looking at various news reports(here,here,here, here, and here) regarding next year's racing for the boys in green, it looks like some polemica might be hitting the Leaky Gas bus. Ivan Basso has declared that he is going to race the Giro/Tour double this coming year while Vincenzo Nibali is currently trying to find a Basso voodoo doll so that he can set things straight...
Breaking news!!!(thanks to Grzdylu and Het Neiuwsblad): Apparently Kreuziger has an oral agreement with Omega-Pharma Lotto for the upcoming season and they are willing to buy him out of his contract. This could alleviate some of the tension on Liquigas for the upcoming season but it raises new questions...Like why would Kreuziger go to a black hole of stage racing that is Silence-Lotto?... Well this one is dead in the water most likely...Kreuziger said he is staying with Leaky through 2010 and what was reported to be an oral agreement was just a little bit of talks between he and Omega Pharma
As it stands right now, this is how it is going to be for next's years big races...
Giro: Co-Leadership between Pellizoti and Basso (2nd and 4th on the GC from this past year). This is fairly standard among teams so that they can have another option if there is any problems during the race, especially is Basso is trying to target the Tour. It is still quite early but it looks like a good opportunity of Pellizoti to shine in his home race after steadily rising the last few years. With the gnarly course that was presented, it looks like Leaky should do well.
Tour of Cali: Nibali will make his apperance for the big sponsor, Cannondale, at the new and improved Tour of California. After taking a break after the classics, he will be ramping it up for the Tour (Cali style) with Armstrong, Little Levi, DZ, etc.
With Kreuziger doing his normal Tour de Suisse in June it looks like all 3 big names will be on good form for the Tour...and that is where the problem starts...
Le Tour:
From what I have seen, it will be a Basso led squad with Pellizoti going for the dots again and Kreuz and Nibali on a leash. It has clearly been shown that Basso is not yet up to his former "extra-terrestial" self after his double 4th place finishes (not including Di Luca) in the Giro and Vuelta though he still deserves leadership. Nibali and Kreuziger have both been rapidly improving, with Nibali showing just a bit more. At age 24, Basso had not even finshed the Tour yet, let alone place in the top 10 which both Kreuziger and Nibali have done so they have shown themselves to be ahead of the curve just a bit. If this team can keep together, it could arguably be the strongest in the race with CSC losing a lot of firepower, Astana not at full capacity (yet), and others not having the same depth. They could place 3 in the top 8 and have 2 amazing domestiques in Szmyd and Pellizotti
The only problem I see is the "T-Mobile" effect. They have the one leader Basso (Jan) and 2 very strong riders that can show that they are no slouches in Nibali and Kreuziger (Kloden and Vinokourov). Now I don't think it will come to Szymd chasing down a wild Kreuziger attack but it could lead to some interesting stories in the news because Nibali could very well be stronger than Basso and want to do something for himself and not be stuck sheparding him 30 seconds behind the leaders. Meanwhile Kreuziger will want to show that he is not just "top 10" material and what better place to do it at than Le Tour.
It might be some polemica! brewing up...
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Interesting
It’s a smaller deal but I find it interesting that Nibali is going to California. He might be the most credible threat to RadioShack and Levi/Lance. Maybe we’ll have a real race!
Yeah, that's the fight I'm really looking forward to...
but seriously, I say Nibali will be the highest placed rider at Le Tour. I can’t see Basso having finished anywhere in between Nibali and Bert last year, and he will go to the Giro to win just like Pellizotti, and therefore Nibali will have the best shot at a top 5. Not sure about Kreuz, but at the moment a same aged Nibali is more advanced in GT racing. This team is loaded though, if they can race together they can put some hurt on riders, unfortunately they don’t have a clear cut podium finisher like T-mob did with Ulle.
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
KrEUziger!
He has the most potential. Nibali is Ok in TT and good in Climbing. But Krezuiger.. He is good in TT and Climbing.. Basso is going to fail in the TT and will be tired after the Giro.
just remember, what goes up must come down, and nibali is the best descender of the whole leaky team
and don’t say descending well can’t win you a grand tour…. il falco scored two giro wins on his descending skills
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
not to mention
he had more help from *Lotto domestiques in the 2005 race than Evans got from them in his time there
van summeren if i remember correctly
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Ardila and Van Huffel, I think
Van Summeren was one of the few to help Evans, though.
He and Aerts. I think VS was the bloke who gave one last pull for Evans on the Alpe, the day that Sastre won it. To be there at that stage was a bloody impressive effort.
Correction
having looked at a number of sources, it looks like it was Aerts on the Alpe. Haven’t been able to see the video again to confirm it, though.
are you referring to the 2005 giro stage to finistre/sestriere?
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Should be a Strenght
Having several capable riders should be a strength as long as they are willing to work together. If they have the goal of beating Contador (or Evans, Schleck, Armstrong, etc) they might need their team.
I think the problem with T-mobile was that they did not ride as a team. When Vino attacked, T-mobile should not have chased down the attack (or Vino should not have attacked). If Liquigas can be unified, the team should benefit.
It is a long time until the Tour, so deciding who the leaders should be and controlling the egos will likely be difficult – that is where the directors will earn their money.
That "If Liquigas can be unified" is asking a lot
None of their team leaders were really happy with each other this year because of competing agendas. Only time I think we really saw them united was Kreuzinger working for Basso at the Vuelta.
Their DS has a veeeery difficult balancing act to play.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 1, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
"Their DS has a veeeery difficult balancing act to play"
And he sucked at it this year, to hear pretty much everyone including Nibali say it.
I smell trouble.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think that in September of 2010
We will be surprised at just how fast a team can go from 4 to 1 GC guys.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 1, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
heh
indeed. They might not even bother containing their secret knowledge that long.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
definitely
i for one am looking forward to nibali and wiggins at sky in 2011.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
Err....
Is Basso going to be allowed to race the Tour?
Forgive me for not keeping up with events if the answer is yes.
The common assumption is
that they struck a deal with ASO. Basso stayed away last year probably with the implied understanding that he would be allowed to ride this year.
The buzz is up on twitter too
@_Gavia_ The grand tour leadership games at Liquigas should provide endless entertainment next season. I do like me some entertainment.
@dansel @_Gavia_ basso’s disel-style attacks should be a great setup for nibali and kreuzinger. I sense much polemica in la gazetta
@_Gavia_ @dansel lol, yeah. the polemica should be fab, though Basso isn’t known for his polemica skills.
@_Gavia_ @dansel i wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up riding support to the young sicilian. is that a stiletto in your pocket?
@dansel @_gavia_ the shark from messina will beat Basso, the wives in Italy will be split in their loyalties.
Consensus? Basso fails and Nibali takes the cake!
Yay!
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Currently not much to choose between the 3 in the PdC poll.
If the Liquigas management are looking for answers about to who to back, they’re not going to find them here!
I don't think AC or Schleck fear this team...
Basso….meh. He couldn’t do the Giro/Tour double when he was on drugs, no way he does it now.
Nibali is a solid rider, but that’s the extent of it……solid.
Kreuziger IMHO is not a rider for the big mountains, he can climb and TT over the smaller climbs but he looks a bit too heavy to rival the heads of state in the high mountains.
And Pellizotti will not doubt exhaust himself at the Giro, leaving nothing more than a stage win or KOM jersey possibility for the Tour in July.
Agree with your assessment
Individually, they are not a threat. Even two of them working together, meh. Three or four of them on the same page could be interesting and powerful. i can’t imagine that happening though.
Kreuziger, at 6'0 and 140 pounds....total fatty. Along the lines of Andy Schleck (140 lbs)
It is more of a power thing at that point.
I tend to agree with the Nibali conjecture even though he has steadily improved from 19th in his 1st GT (Giro) to his 4th GT being the 7th place in the Tour this year.
Nibali has two years on Kreutz
The czecks “weakness” in these last two Tours seems inexplicable until you remember the guy is frickin 23 years old.
IMHO he is much more likely to dominate the Tour than Andy.
Bold call there
You might be right about Kreuziger. He certainly is talented, and has come close to some big results this last season.
The only thing that weighs over in Andy's favour
is the small detail that he has delivered in three GT’s in a row. Roman promises a lot but he hasn’t delivered to the same extent.
Right
I agree, I’m still a bit unsure myself how far Kreuziger can go. He seems to have all the ingredients and I can envision him winning a grand tour and probably a monument or two before he’s done. But I’m not sure he’s on track necessarily to be a dominating rider, you know?
Kreuziger's the anti-Brajkovic?
or . . . is Brajkovic more of a reference rider for Kreuz than Andy?
Look at this guy on a bike and tell me he's not going to win 4 Tours?
I googled “smooth” and found like 14 Kreuziger photos.
Smoove = victory!
I like this…
I’m down with the whole he’s 23 dammit! analysis. I mean, when Contador was 23 he finished 18th in the D-Tour. I say we wait. By the way, what’s his contract status? Who will actually be free to find a new home next summer when Liquigas implodes?
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
meh
I hope he ends up somewhere else. But only because for whatever reason, I’m really not into the Sky thing.
You've forget about that next year.. (If they have the same season as Cervelo:)
And they are probably dominant in hottitudethreads
not convinced they will, though
have the same kind of season as cervélo. that was an unusual début for a team – you really don’t see a new team ride that well every day. and even then, they still didn’t get the results they surely wanted from carlos sastre, though certainly the two giro stages didn’t suck at all.
Sky's got a chance to get started like that, I think
From what I understand, a good bit of Cervelo’s strength is not only its riders but also how much comradarie and teamwork there is between them. Look at Qatar this year – did anyone look as much like a team than Cervelo?
Granted, they had something to prove to the ASO in the desert and other teams didn’t… But I diverge. Because a lot of the Sky guys are either brits or aussies, I think they will get along very well and have that extra little oomph as a team.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 1, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
more likely to go like katusha i think, but i’m looking forward to sky news’ coverage of them, should be a larf
pounding along in three ratios like a sonata
like a Ritter with pommelled scrotum atra cura on the step
Botticelli from the fork down pestling the transmission
tires bleeding voiding zeep the highway
Like the great
Sky still an option for Cav, which starts out “Tour de France sensation Mark Cavendish has not ruled out a move to Team Sky, despite pledging his commitment to Team Columbia for the foreseeable future”
i voted kreuziger
i remember chris saying last season that nibali was a lock for the win in the 2010 giro, which i agreed with at the time. which is why it strikes me as strange that they are sending him to cali…having said that, i think pellizotti will at least podium the giro, nibali will podium in cali, and kreuz will win in suisse again.
going into the tour, i honestly think the best thing the management could do is let them duke it out on the road. pellizotti doesn’t mind going for polka, basso isn’t what he was pre-suspension..
so it’s between the two young guys. i prefer kreuziger, don’t know why, just do. with nibali almost definitely leaving for 2011, the rest of the team might want to direct their energies to someone who’s going to be around in years to come to pay them back…maybe. plus i like kreuziger, there was a good procycling interview where he was sounding off about this leadership situation. i think he has the balls to go and seize it.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
maybe
the team manager is a lazio fan
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
you are a roma fan as i recall, chris?
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
You recall correctly
So don’t expect any posting Sunday morning.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Ah the exciting match-up of the extremely average vs. the below average
in an overrated league…(runs far far away)
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
you're
a dead man.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
As dead as Roma's Serie A chances?
I’m even more of a dead man now.
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
You'll see
They’ve got “champion’s league” written all over them now.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 2, 2009 3:26 AM EST up reply actions
That
would be a first.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 2, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
EVIL!!!
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously Liqui doesn't know...
that Chris has Terry Tate on staff, or they would do his bidding.
No horn, watch for finger.
uh oh
Not only are my predictions merely wrong, they are actually causing teams to make plans which prevent my predictions from even being possible. Fine, a little test: I predict Lance Armstrong will not win the 2010 Vuelta.
Maybe a better plan for Nibali is to win the 2011 Giro, on his post-LIQ revenge tour of Italy.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, that'll work
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
So when Nibali leaves Leeky
By that time with Basso aging and I’ll bet moving into a role of team captain on the road, there will be two leaders, Jennifer Grey and Kreuziger (and Benna if he has any juice left). Honestly that doesn’t seem too bad. That can be managed. The biggest problem this year is the Tour. The Giro is easier with only Basso and Pellizotti and there’s a good chance that those two will waste themselves on that course with those hillocks and tiny transfers, leaving Nibali and Kreuz much fresher for the Tour.
tiny transfers, ha!
The plan is for Nibali and Kreuziger to show up fresh for the Tour, for sure. I’m guessing it’ll work, though Basso is the wildcard for both races.
I think Basso is going to have a little more umph next year
and the team leader role won’t be a question when Basso is racing the Tour. All the other concerns will probably remain though.
No horn, watch for finger.
Well
tell Amadio. At some point it’s not about who’s strongest, it’s about the team exerting some leadership.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 1, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting.
Especially since Van Den Broeck assumes he’s the leader. How do one say “polemica” in Dutch?
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 2, 2009 5:21 AM EST up reply actions
Nooo! He has an agreement with Omega..
But Kreuziger has a contract with Liqui.. So they have to pay a fee.. That’s not sorted out yet
Confusing source
At Nieuwsblad they mention Het Laatste Nieuws or HLN as source but for now there is nothing on hln.be.
Very confusing
I don’t see it on HLN either. Methinks Lotto wants him, but wanting and getting really aren’t the same thing. They’d have to buy him out from Liquigas, and so far, Lotto does not appear to have done that.
Hmm, other sources (Cyclingnews) saying he's staying green
“despite rumours of going to *lotto”.
Why do all the italians have to get caught up in polemica?
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 2, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't make much sense
The guy is a year away from free agency, and will have a handful of major stage-race teams salivating over him if he continues his progress. Why take a buyout and go to one of the most notorious failures of a stage racing outfit in all of cycling?
I don’t know much about the guy (where he lives, what languages, etc), and sorta hate to say this, but he’d do well at the Shack. Lance and Levi should be just about done, and Kreuz could learn from the masters.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 2, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent
Lance probably has a year left, Levi no more than 2-3. I think there’s plenty of room for Kreuz there too. Brunyeel isn’t the right DS for everyone, but I think he is a good match with Kreuz’s abilities. He’s not as explosive as Contador and therefore fits more into the Brunyeel way of working people over.
On a side note, this rash of rumors of people seeking to move with a year left on their contract is starting to irk me. You signed a multi-year contract for a reason, people. Your reputation doesn’t get any better when you renig on a commitment.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 2, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Probably for the best
There 5 in for the tour with Basso Kreuzinger Nibali Pellizotti and Szymd. That leaves 4 for the rest of the team, and there is some decent talent and competition for those spots who can serve as domestiques and do some work for the team, why waste a spot and maybe another on Benna and a leadout man? Especially since it is uncertain that he can stay within 5 bike lengths of Cav and the rest and even get a top 3 for a single stage? Although he had a good Vuelta, his Tour was a disappointment and I do not think he can match the top tier sprinters and will probably get beat by the next group just enough that the Giro/Vuelta is a better bet. I hate when teams that should be working completely for the GC have side quests that distract them (some would reference the Evans/Mcewen Lotto years) and if ever there was a team that should be focusing on GC (and KOM as well I suppose) it is liquigas with their 3 leaders.
Vuelta
as prep for the worlds, he says
"L’ultima parte sarà invece concentrata sulla Vuelta, un ottimo viatico per approdare in Australia al top".
http://www.velobike.it/visual_sottocat.php?titolo=Interviste&lin=1&ID_sottocat=1450
The course for next year’s road race is a point to point event, the first in world championship history, beginning in Melbourne and ending in Geelong. But to the delight of the fans, the field will tackle multiple circuits around the city of Geelong to complete the event. There is one short, yet steep hill (it reaches 13% at its steepest point) on those finishing circuits, but it likely won’t be enough to keep the world’s best sprinters from fighting it out in a mass gallop to the line.
As they do every year, team Italia will have several weapons to choose from in 2010. Alessandro Petacchi has already made it known that he is on the hunt for a world title in Australia, but he won’t be the only Italian fast man at the race. Daniele Bennati will be among the Squadra Azzura chosen in 2010.
bah... circuits.... main reason why i can't abide the world championships (or olympics for that matter)....
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Point to Point?
What does it mean that it is a Point to Point event and how is that different from a normal one day race?
Normal one day races are point to point
The WC and Olympics are the exception by running on a number of laps of the same circuit .
The Melbourne GeelongWC will take the format often used in GTs (sprintstages) going from one town to another and finishing on a number of laps on a circuit in the finishing town.
The olympics in Beijing were a point-to-point as well
There was a 79km ride down from N Beijing to the circuits further south.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 2, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
there really aren't too many hills in central Melbourne
They used the Punt Road hill for the Commonwealth Games road race; it’s about 10 per cent, but very short, so it was just the repetition of it that burnt a bit.
Their options were to try that again or go to Geelong.
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