Contador's Toughest Climb?
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 12:23 PM EST
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Cyclojournalists worldwide are flocking to Pisa, Italy, in desperation to find some news, or make it if need be, and with no better method for this than finding something to say about Alberto Contador. Sporza: Vino will work for Pistolero. L'Equipe: Contador likes his new armada. Blady blady blah.
Here's an Alberto Contador story worth contemplating: is the 2010 Tour his last great challenge? Consider this: with the backing of a great team, he has looked more or less invincible in his last four Grand Tour starts. A year from now, free-agent Contador will be gathering somewhere with a hand-picked team (Garmin? Caisse d'Epargne?) chosen to launch his assault on Lance's Tour records. That team will not merely be the one who buries him in a pile of cash; it'll almost certainly include the lure of a great support squad fully at his disposal and dedicated to his success in July (and elsewhere). Plenty of things can change over the course of that contract, such as the ascension of a more complete challenger (sorry Andy), but odds are we will see lots of pistol shots and yellow jerseys in that mix too.
The outlier is 2010. Lance is not only back, he has succeeded in putting the band back together, reassembling the aging core of his Postal/Disco/Astana teams at the Shack. He has, in effect, come back to the sport and pulled Contador's support team out from under him. Not unfairly -- Armstrong's accomplishments are unprecedented, and he made a few careers along the way (coughbruyneelcough). But from Contador's perspective, suffice it to say he's lost a lot. The reigning Tour champ now finds himself in familiar colors but with a supporting cast that ranges from familiar (Noval) to novel (de la Fuente) to bizarre (Vinokourov). I don't know who he's getting his training tips from, but suffice to say it's not a DS with fourteen grand tour wins under his belt. Worse, Contador comes off a fall/winter rife with uncertainty, if not turmoil -- the dragged out contract matter, the rush to build a team, all of which is just now being put to rest as training camp begins and the veneer of normalcy takes hold.
Everyone is out to get him -- that's what it means to be on top. And however protected he may feel, the fact is he's never been this vulnerable before, and likely never will again, not in his prime. 2010 will be interesting, indeed.
Photo by Jasper Juinen, Getty Images Sport
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Woops, forgot the photo cred. Will add shortly.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
It makes me wonder..
Who is he? After some googling I found he’s a Dutch, I think.. based on the ui and he worked in a Dutch shop, pro photographer. But is he commentating here and why does he share his pics for free.. Because they are also for sale.. Different strategie than Cor Vos?
PdC's parent company SBN made a publishing deal w/ Getty Images
We have seen some great shots already. Good deal!
The photographer?
I don’t know what his deal with Getty is, but I assume they take a cut and market his stuff.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 14, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
What they said.
Getty does take a cut, and it means that the shooter makes less than if he was selling his own work directly.
I totally dig this dealio. I’d love to have a ’scription with one of the cycling shooters, but this deal is pretty sweet.
I thought everyone was out to get Bradley Wiggins...
Wigglypuff Cav Crunch, Breakfast of Madison Champions!
yeah the thing about last year is that after the TTT, Armstrong was the only one he really had to worry about. He might have to cover a lot of attacks from a lot of different teams next year.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
and a strong team
is not just valuable on Mountain stages.
it’s things like those never ending stages in gusting winds with an interesting breakaway where a strong team can be super valuable
Moo
yeah...
I didn’t mention the team just because so many people talked about how the team actually worked against him last year (apart from TTT obviously). But I agree with you in theory.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 12, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't go so far as to say his teammates worked against him (aside from Lance)
They were pretty neutral, and they were very helpful in most circumstances. Be that because he was in the same group as Lance or not, I think we can only assert that he got sub-par support, especially for a guy who has won 3 GTs in a row.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 12, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
it's not a DS with fourteen grand tour wins under his belt.
Re: I don’t know who he’s getting his training tips from, but suffice to say it’s not a DS with fourteen grand tour wins under his belt.
Google told me Martinelli has won an awful lot, and I do love the Patani/Contador connection. Just like ‘98, what’s the strategy? Attack every summit with 5km to go and take tons of time. And better than Pantani he can TT.
And unlike Pantani his blood isn’t boiled with 17 different “elixirs”….
by mister chips on Dec 12, 2009 1:45 PM EST reply actions
Loving the Pantani/Martinelli/AC connection
while ignoring the doping issue is just not seeing the big picture.
Why do we always crucify the riders and leave the men in the background to go about their business as nothing happened?
yeah Martinelli was a dirty DS with Mercanto Uno...
I would not want to even know what his training “tips” were.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 12, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
Martinelli is no slouch
I understand your point, Bruyneel is one of the most successful DS/Team managers when it comes to GTs. But as Mister Chips notes above, Martinelli is no slouch. I don’t know about his abilities to motivate his team of misfits, but I certainly thinking he has a lot of material to work with (us against the world, weak team comments, etc.) and some pretty decent riders.
All that being said, if AC can win the TdF in 2010, it may be his finest achievement (for all the other reasons you note).
Martinelli
First, thanks to Mr Chips for reminding me who the Astana DS is.
But while Martinelli is no slouch, it’s safe to say that nobody in the DS business at that level is truly bad, or at least that must be a rare exception. Yes, he has qualities, which led his charges to four Giro d’Italia victories from 1998-2004. He also led Pantani to the Tour victory in 1998.
1998 was a long, long time ago, and we all know the role chemicals played that year. It’s ironic that the race known mostly for the biggest doping polemica in cycling history was won by a guy who carried a centrifuge around.
Anyway, that’s not on Martinelli; it’s just to say that his past experience doesn’t have as much relevance as you might prefer. Tour tactics have evolved since then. And winning the Giro is nothing like winning a Tour.
I am sure Martinelli knows how to put a training program together. But Bruyneel’s success in building and directing Tour champions in the current era is unparalleled. No way is Martinelli as prepared to win in 2010 as Bruyneel.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Case in point
the cobbles stages.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
True all that....
but at least Bert has a guy of reaonable competence. I don’t rank the Giro as lesser, its totally different strategically. And in a lot of ways far more complicated than the TdF. Anyways, a bit of a relief for a Contador fan after the initial discussons of Vino as DS!
He also won the the Giro in 2004...“He picked up the Giro trophy with the names inscribed and said, ’I’ve helped these win.’ [Pantani, Garzelli, Simoni, Cunego]. His story fascinates me. Four pink jerseys with four different riders, it means he’s truly good,” continued Contador.
That is a great way to introduce your resume.
And anyways, confessions aside, virtually everyone in cycling has touched the dark side, even the Queens of clean, Vaughters/Millar, granted they did do their classic American, Oprah confession episode…
by mister chips on Dec 13, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Speaking of training
It’s occurred to me that Bruyneel must have a couple of years’ worth of training data from Alberto. Strengths, weaknesses, areas where they might have had to push him or tweak his performance. That’s got to be useful when looking at him as an opponent.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
Hm
Does the DS-Cyclist privilege apply? Does he have to recuse himself?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
where's the honor?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Tearfully sacrificed in favor of a nailbiter of a Tour?
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
I'm sure Johan
has a zinger of a tweet about honour somewhere.
"It looks like talking, but it’s just words that comes out"
~ Andy Schleck
Alberto has weaknesses ?
on the bike ? I don’t see any.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
I wonder if he really does though
Certainly he’s watched him on the road, but I wonder how much detailed training he did with Contador. It might be less than we might imagine.
Yep
I think A.C. has taken care of his training without much help from J.B.
No practice rides on important mountains months before “the race” with a nice bowl of soup for lunch at a small inn below the snowline. Wish I could find the exact quote about the soup.
Alberto will continue to improve in leaps and bounds,
Lance will improve also, but has imho no hope of out-fitnessing Alberto next July, and much less chance imho of out-foxing Bert.
Also Bert has the advantage of having watched Lance for three weeks in 2009, and I am certain he learned a few things he will:
a/ not do again
b/ do again and do them better
Now, yes and back to Chris’ post, and the team question, well Alberto arguably had less i in Team last July, so what will the difference be for 2010? That Lance has way more i in his Team is really all. I really do not think the Radio Shack Team has much chance of topping a super strong Alberto in a weaker team.
Er yeah
He had poor support, but Lance couldn’t attack him outright. And presumably he got some advice from Bruyneel along the way.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
that's a large presumption...
pity yates didn’t stick around at astana….
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Poor support? Yes and No
He certainly benefitted a lot from a strong TTT as was pointed out above
"Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs."
but Lance couldn’t attack him outright
Lance did attack him outright in the infamous echelon stage. A real team mate would have made damn sure the best stage racer didn’t miss that.
Wondering
You think Lance could have dropped back to where AC was and then tow him back up to the front group? Or are you suggesting Lance made sure AC was where he needed to be when the split occured?
It’s intriguing that this stage is still brought up, given how little effect it had on the race as a whole.
"Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs."
"Lance did attack him outright in the infamous echelon stage."
Interesting take you have on that stage.
No horn, watch for finger.
Yeah
I don’t quite see it that way. I don’t like getting into these rehashes though.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Garmin hates America and loves cancer!
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
OK I'll drop it.
But I still think the best move of the day was Spartacus going to the left of the center strip and bunny-hopping it to make the echelon.
+1
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Thanks! Does that mean you liked it? Or is 'payback' more ominous?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Excellent. All recommendations (except from Lou) are welcome
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Returning favour: Jasper Jones by Craig Silvey. Briljant!
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
no one bunny hops as good as freire tho....
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
+1
That is one of my favorite moves in racing that I’ve ever seen
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 13, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
I wish, but I've never been able to find the video online.
It’s stage 7 of the 2006 Tour de Suisse. Freire was in a breakaway in the final kms with the bunch closing. Going into a roundabout and right turn, Freire bunnyhopped a divider, attacked, and took the short way around the roundabout while his companions took the long way around. Freire held on to finish 3 seconds ahead of the charging bunch.
J-Rod did something similar to this in the Worlds this year on the last lap – he went through a break in the divider and attacked on the inside of a left hand turn. It’s been referred to as “pulling a Freire” quite a few times.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 13, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
That stage is perhaps a textbook example of passive aggression.
Folks . . . consider what would have happened had Armstrong missed such a dangerous split in the USPS/Disco years?
And don’t say it never happened, because it did, at least once—and USPS drove a monster chase . . . which wound up setting up a Jalabert stage win
So...
maybe he learned from it???
I kid, I kid…
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
no
he learned from Big George
Did Hincapie Tell Lance When The Hammer Went Down?
http://recovoxnews.blogspot.com/2009/07/did-hincapie-tell-lance-when-hammer.html
You don’t have to be a rocket scientist
I would not bet on either of those.
Lance DID attack outright and anything JB said had to be considered dis-information (as he was all LA all the time).
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
So Bert talked about his Tour team
Which Chris alluded to in the opening:
Contador
De La Fuente
Grivko
Hernandez
Navarro
Noval
Stangelj
Tiralongo
Vino
I agree with Phil on the other thread. This is a team pretty much built for Bert, and yes, that includes Vino who I just don’t see as having the GT ego that Lance has. Vino has ego but we’ll see that more in the Ardennes and Giro. And if Vino is banned by ASO, then Pereiro is a nice fall back for a 9th rider. I can imagine Bazayev in the mix too.
So this team above is made up of Grand Tour vets, all of ‘em, with a mixture of climbers and flat stage road clearers. Savvy. It’s gonna be hard to pull one on this team. They have little experience on cobbles and that is their weak point (and makes me wonder about including Bazayev). They do have a decent amount of Ardennes experience so narrow roads aren’t unknown to Bert’s helpers.
I'm going to dedicate two minutes every evening
from now to July to ponder whether we are putting too much emphasis on those cobbles.
Oh we are...people are going to run that 13km into the ground that when it comes to it...
nothing is going to happen. Should be good times.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 12, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
And?
Your point being?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 12, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Ah
Moo. Yes, I see, it all makes sense now.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 13, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
shades of ventoux this year
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
lol
I’d guess one gc rider comes to grief in the run-in to the cobbles – the positioning battle is going to be fierce. But I doubt it’s a game-changer for too many riders.
uh oh...
you two have just ensured that the entire peloton will crash and all the gc riders will lose massive amounts of time…to Vinokourov, already up the road on an attack, who finds himself in yellow with 40 min. ;)
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions
Built for Bert?
Those names would suggest so. If he has a strong team (even if it’s not the greatest) working entirely for him that will be a lot better than in 2009. Despite Contador’s recent comments he will personally be better prepared than ever.
Meanwhile can Mr Shack really challenge next July the way he would like? I don’t think so. An experienced and cohesive team is a big factor but the old man still has to turn the pedals himself.
If you bear in mind that other teams like Garmin and Cervelo will want their share of the cake I don’t think any Shack rider will be the strongest threat to Bert.
The cobbles are attracting a lot of talk but there are numerous additional opportunities for things to go wrong.
Re. the photo – I like the symbolism. That trailing Astana rider is really SMALL ;-)
I personally think Mr Vande Velde will beat Mr Shack come July
Call it wishful thinking, but I’m calling it for an upset. And a much welcome one.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 12, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
that could be an interestiing plotline
fully healthy, team fully behind him, still smarting from Armstrong’s comments… Not sure Vande Velde is quite talented enough to do it, but it would be really interesting
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
"I agree with Phil on the other thread"
+1000
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
I often find myself sharing the same thoughts as him, coincidence ?
i think not!
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
So I'd say the same as in that other thread
Astana will be 100% behind Bert, I have little doubt about that. Astana was extremely desperate to keep Bert, they seem just as loyal to him as the guy who started the team, pressure to support Vino won’t be there. As Ursula pointed out, Vino still has his shot in other races and he wants to see his Kazakh team win a Tour with him there. Bert will be just as if not more motivated than Lance I think, he wants to kick his ass big time and shut him and JB up for good(well that will never happen but it would slow them down). Radioshack has a better team on paper but can you really expect Levi and Kloden to kill themselves for Lance in the first mountain stages? I doubt it seeing those guys are back-up plans if Lance doesn’t have what it takes and could both get a top 10.
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
Horner,Brajkovic, Popovich and Paulinho will work
Kloden,Leipheimer and Armstrong will sit behind AC until the last 5-10 K. They will attack one at a time hoping that AC will choose not to follow or not be able to follow after one of the attacks.
,,,, and AC will still drop them all. The race will be for second, who can beat Andy ?
Cadel, Levi, Lance, Vincenzo ? ( and the race or second will be decided in the TT )
IMHO
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Kloden attacking is sort of painful to watch, no acceleration what so ever
and while that may work during the first mountain stages by the Pyrenees at least one if not two of those guys will be no threat. I agree with race for 2nd, but lets not forget the other two Spaniards, one who couldn’t race the Tour last year(although I’m still not convinced ASO will let him ride this year).
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
Similar to Levi
Sometimes the decoys make the play.
( darn, I was really trying to forget him ! )
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
But it's not a two horse race
Bruyneel’s GT strategy works well when there are two or three real contenders, and his team is the one who takes the initiative at the last hill.
However, the depth of this tour promises to be higher than any since 1998. The schlecks will not wait for leipheimer and kloeden to ‘attack’; nor nibali or pellizotti. Evans will attack once he has lost time on the first MTF, too.
Recall verbier, when the schlecks were making moves – that forced contador to go earlier than planned.
TRS’s problem is that their alternative leaders are diesels. Leipheimer is a wheelsucker, and will only attack if he thinks the wheel in front of him is broken. Kloeden cannot respond to sharp accelerations. So Armstrong will either need to do that work himself of be paced back to the attacks.
by Runitout on Dec 12, 2009 5:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Precisely
Other teams can help/hinder the cause of either rider, whether inadvertently or deliberately. It just might be a really interesting race!
Although it has been pointed out by majope that Johann will have data on and experience with the young rider, the reverse is also true (up to a point). And don’t expect Bert to keep repeating mistakes, as peterfish mentioned further up this thread. He will also have a very different environment at the dining table in the evening.
One very significant psychological factor in my view is that I suspect Contador will have even greater motivation to win in 2010.
I agree but I believe that everyone is going to be attacking AC
So the Schlecks and Evans will join the RS attack. That is if they prefer wining to placing second.
Just like Ullrich, Beloki, Satsre, Basso, Hamilton and Leipheimer used to gang up on Lance when he was top dog.
I don’t think it will work. Nothing works if the top rider just rides away from the elite group.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
I think it could get really interesting, dangerous for Contador, everyone says he can just ride away from everyone when the road goes up but if the Tour is this deep, the attacks will come long before that point – the question is whether Astana will be able to cover attacks all the way through the stage, whether they can drive the peloton day after day, whether one of the “lesser” contenders can get away early. What if Leipheimer attacks (goes with an attack) on an early-ish climb, is able to stay away til the end, and gains several minutes because all the Astana guys wanted to stay with Armstrong? If not Leipheimer, one of the Liquigas guys? You don’t need that much acceleration if the peloton lets you go.
On a related note, I recently put my bike away for the winter, and all this talk is really making me want to go out and ride – really f-ing fast – really put the hammer down. Me trying to put the hammer down is not pretty, I have zero acceleration and not much top-end speed. But damn, the urge to see spring arrive is coming early this year, I think time off the bike is good but I really hope I can hold out ;)
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
I know it's speculation but...
Who do you think can hold an attack from that far out? Andy? Maybe Basso? Wouldn’t AC just cover attacks until he finds a good counter-attack point? Also, as for Levi or some other rider going up the road. Maybe they let him go initially, but at some point, the racing breaks out because those will still want to win. Also, Levi is still too good to simply let him go up the road. I could maybe see Zubeldia getting up the road, but not Levi or Kloden. I just can’t see other teams sitting idly by to let a dangerous Radio Shack guy go up the road (arguably more dangerous than Mr. Armstrong). Anything could obviously happen, but I just don’t think this is that likely.
It would be nice of someone put up a translation of the MARCA interview Contador gave before training camp in Pisa. From what I could glean from the google translation, he seems well aware of the importance of both physical preparation (including training on the cobbles) and mental preparation (talks about developing his tactics in response to a question about the multiple attacks that are sure to come). I don’t know if he will be successful, but it seems to me he is approaching this upcoming TdF with his eyes wide open.
yeah don't get me wrong,
to my mind Contador is still the huge favourite, and to top it off I’m a fan so I hope he wins. But I think there are plenty of scenarios one could imagine in which he loses, especially if the Tour is as deep as everyone says it will be. You say “wouldn’t AC just cover attacks” – fine, but isn’t that precisely the point – i.e. a deeper team hopes he keeps covering attacks until he can’t anymore, at which point they send their best guy? “Racing breaks out because those will still want to win” – but what if RS’s and Liquigas’s 3rd options are in the break, and there’s lots of climbing? Which other team is strong enough to rein that in? And what is Armstrong suddenly shows himself to be more astute politically than he has so far, somehow reverts back to being “boss” or at least has some who consider him thus, and says “no one rides except Astana”?
I’m not saying all these things will happen, I’m saying that one of them may happen, and that’s all that will be necessary. It’s all a question of how much Astana can impose its will, how well they can cover breaks, how much (for how many consecutive days) they’re willing to drive the peloton. My money’s on Contador, but the deeper the Tour, and the stronger the teams, the greater the risk.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
what if RS’s and Liquigas’s 3rd options are in the break, and there’s lots of climbing? Which other team is strong enough to rein that in?
Cue Saxo Bank and Garmin. There are more than one team trying to win this thing and that are strong enough to keep things in check.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 13, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe. I’m just saying that much stranger things have happened than pro cycling teams working together.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
cde... they'll assist
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Mmm.
You know I don’t think Astana has to control the race at all. Not until Alberto is in yellow. Until that time, let Saxo Bank and Radio Shack fill that role.
As for your scenario, I guess I struggle with why Saxo Bank, Garmin, Cervelo or any other team with a real GC contender would simply let someone go up the road. The name of the game is to win, not simply beat AC. And frankly, why would AC respond to an attack by someone OTHER than a GC candidate? Who cares if Zubeldia puts in an attack? Let him. Same with anyone not named Schleck at Saxo Bank. AC can out TT those guys in his sleep. His concern has to be Andy, Frank, Basso, Nibali, Sastre, Levi and Armstrong (in almost that order). I think he realizes that he has to be smart about his effort. And chasing down Kloden just seems like a waste of energy (it’s not like he can accelerate away from anyone anyway).
Is Evans of no consequence or are you wary about BMC being there?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Not sure if they get an invite.
But if Evans is there, then he will be one to watch (unless he leaves everything at the Giro).
Also, I failed to mention a potentially DEEP Caisse team could be there to provide “moral” support to AC as well.
curse of the rainbow jersey
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
And wgy is he going to do better than this year.
He’s getting old and has a lot less talent than Lance
he was stronger than Armstrong in this year's Tour
in my view. Before his crash. Remember that he lost the Vuelta to Contador in 2008 by bonus seconds. (I think he still might have lost on a countback, but there wasn’t much in it.)
Uninspiring and a wheelsucker he may be, but Leipheimer is no slouch.
I'm one of the few that doesn't believe that Lance will get stronger this year.
He is still 38 and will be 38 and 10 months in July. Levi was stronger than him during last year’s TdF prior to his injury. The question will be how much Levi has left after the ToC and the Dauphine, both of which I believe he intends to contest for the win.
In any event, if Levi does get away and gets significant time, he’ll be hard to be in that pancake flat TT. That’s what makes him dangerous as a GC contender.
Based on cqranking.
It looks like he sucked from the beginning.. But haven’t seen anything so can not discuss this matter
Team Shack is about one man, and only one man.
Regardless of how much potential Levi or Kloden or anyone else on the team has, unless Lance has lost the race (through injury or some other mishap) the whole team will be behind furthering his position on GC.
Or do people really think that Lance Inc. is going to sit back and let a team mate win the TDF ? Hell he struggled to let one win a stage!
"Age and treachery will overcome youth and skill" - Fausto Coppi
I don't see why most people think that.
Lance is obviously now not the best cyclist in the world (6th-ish) and would look foolish if team RS let the race leader pull away as Levi, Kloden and Horner futily try to tow Lance up to Contador and Schleck. ( an impossible task, btw )
If Kloden or Leiphmeimer can stick with the elite group, they will go and the secondary lieutenants will stick with Lance. Just like at the Giro.
I would think that Lance would do it for the right reason, but your guaranteed Lance and JB would send Levi and the best climber up the road just to avoid the avalanche of criticism he would get from the cycling world. ( “Old man drags team down” etc )
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Wow, I confused Frinkster
There’s a switch.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
I think the common assumption is that ego might overcome rationality
Nobody expected all of Astana except for Horner to gingerly ride the autobus with Lance instead of riding with Levi either.
But they did.
Personally I think LA would have to be on a very obviously off day for the other to be let loose.
was posting to up-thread
I can never get the hang of that.
But dispatching lieutenants to look after Armstrong when the leader was allegedly Leipheimer seemed very Pantani-ish (i.e. Pantani, circa 2002).
You know I'm not to sure here, whether
you guys are either agreeing with me or disagreeing(*) with me, but the post I was responding to said “unless Lance has lost the race (through injury or some other mishap) the whole team will be behind furthering his position on GC”.
In the 2009 Giro when Lance was having a bad day, Levi and Horner who are the top two climbers in that race went on without Lance, putting time into Lance. The other climbing Lieutenants stayed back with Lance.
So that event shows exactly what I am predicting will happen in the future. The top guys will stick with the lead group and the secondary guys will stay with the struggling leader, who ever that may be.
And the secondary point I was making is that the you are guaranteed that JB will send Levi, Kloden, and Horner up the road without Lance because otherwise, we would all crucify him in the press!
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
But Lance was rider recovering from injury
riding the Giro purely as prep for theTour and to support LL. Why on earth should anyone on the team even consider dropping back to him? Thanks to the collarbone he was a tourist.
I think you have to really want it to make the interpretation of events that you do.
Well actually, I think the "want" may be on the other side.
The only point I was trying to make is that they would not drop back the team leaders to help Lance and they didn’t at the Giro(!). So I think in terms of the Giro, its a fact.
A conclusion of that then relates to the future 2010 TDF. Jens, Do you really think that if Lance drops back on a crucial climb JB is going to ask Levi and Kloden to drop back and Pace Lance as AC and AS ride away? No way ! He’d look like a fool and a sort of suicidal paternal nepotist.
Now to speak to your point about Lance riding purely as a prep and that no one should drop back for him… the facts are that after stage four Lance was in 6th place a little over 28 seconds behind the race leader and about 40 seconds ahead of Menchov and Basso. The only true contender with any real time on him was DiLuca. He had also had a good day the day before in the mountains.
The idea that any team would not put in a few boys to pace “the” Lance Armstrong when he is that close to the lead is wanting to draw conclusions that I think are very unlikely. (Someone hoped old Bret Favre could once again take the lead too.)
Add to that the fact that when Basso went, an elite group formed and if you re-watch the video you see that a few of the Astana boys are soon riding behind Lance. They could not have gone with DiLuca,Basso,Menchov, and Leipheimer in the last 6 kilometers of that climb or any other major climb.
Can you imagine hearing this in the radio ear piece after Basso pushed the pace on the last 6K of the Alpe, “Navarro, Zeits, go catch DiLuca, Basso and Menchov and help Levi.”
That’s not gonna happen.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
if I could put my 2 cents in here...
I think you’re conflating the Tour and the Giro too much. Armstrong said before the Giro that he was riding to get in shape, riding for others, etc. He was happy to do this in the Giro. He wouldn’t have been happy to do it in the Tour. One could argue that this is evidenced by his annoyance the first time Contador attacked, when he put seconds into Armstrong and basically took away his shot at being in yellow – Contador showed he was the strongest one in the race, yet Armstrong wasn’t exactly rushing to fall in behind him. Just my opinion here, but I think it’s one thing to talk about the Giro, which he doesn’t really care about, and another to talk about the Tour. (If anything, helping others at the Giro is a smart political move for him, because it allows him to demand reciprocity at the Tour.)
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 15, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
After May I truly think it possible that
Lance would hold LL and Klöden back to pace him.
The only part of kind of agree with is that Jani, Popo and the rest just might not have had what it took to stay with Levi anyway. But that just raises the bigger question of why they can’t respect Levi better than to set him up with a bunch of off- form trainingriders?
Ok. I think you are with the majority.
Horner finished with the Elite guys on that day. Levi was the only one in the elite group with a teammate.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Is my memory of the top two Astana riders
not dropping back to help Lance correct ?
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
The Above comment was intended for
" You might want to review the 09 Giro".
The indents sometimes make it hard to tell.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Well said. Everyone attacking AC, hoping that at one point he can't respond
And letting Astana do all the chasing … and they wouldn’t do it because Lance is the Boss or they like or dis-like Alberto. They would do it because they want to win.
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
I suppose
you could turn my original post on its head, thusly:
If you think Contador is a huge favorite in 2010, wait til you see him armed with money, peace, and a killer team in 2011-2015.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 13, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Can you imagine him as a part of Liquigas in 2011.
How do you attack that army ? Scary !
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Give em enough rope?
That team is a polemica waiting to happen.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 14, 2009 4:33 AM EST up reply actions
Bueno on the photo.
And nice write up too Chris, you’ve got me believing that the others (esp. LA) will have a chance against AC. I would prefer about three times as much cobbles in that stage, then we would really have something to wait for and speculate about. Even still, 13k is enough for some misfortune to befall on someone. But cetainly not the heads-up Lance Armstrong, it’s much more likely to befall upon the naive inexperienced youngster from Spain. Haha.
No horn, watch for finger.
Oh the dark world that is false hope
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
Prometheus: I placed in them blind hopes.
Chorus: That was a great gift you gave to men.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
Lots of cobbles in old Greece too
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 13, 2009 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
If they can race around Washington, maybe they can take a turn around the Plaka too...
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I think they did, in the Olympics 2004
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 13, 2009 8:35 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds right but I don't remember... hard to imagine really ...
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I was there!
Yay me!
Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 13, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
Very lucky you!
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I do
so love this comment. And plan to replicate it very soon.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 14, 2009 4:34 AM EST up reply actions
They've done that one already
Back in 1996 they ran the first three stages in Greece, starting in Athens then heading west and north towards the ferry port. That was the year that NAS had planned to do a massive drug bust on the team cars as they all disembarked in Italy, but the news got out and loads of them decided to drive back instead, up through Yugoslavia then back south again in Italy.
haha!
that’s awesome.
As a side note, one of the freakiest moments in my life took place in a tiny room on the Slovene-Croat border, with 3 agents insisting again and again that I give them my drugs. Guess that didn’t happen for these guys.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 15, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Well?
did you?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 16, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
- “[My name], we know you have drugs.”
- “I don’t have any drugs.”
- “Give us the drugs.”
- “I don’t have any drugs.”
(etc etc etc, 15 min. later:)
- “Give us the drugs.”
- “I don’t have any drugs.”
- “…..um….OK”
And back on the bus I went. To top it off everyone on the bus was mad at me because of the delay.
Well when I put it like that it doesn’t sound so bad, just imagine a tiny room – maybe 12 by 12 – with me, the dude questioning me, and 2 other agents, one of them a very tall Croatian woman with a big gun. Hmmm sounds like the beginning of a porn movie.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
haha!
The kitchen sink, actually. Dein Gewehr ist wirklich zu gross!
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 17, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
There’s plenty of hope, only not for us.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
Am I allowed to ask what happened to the 'cunning plan' post?
I was looking forward to sitting down with coffee and devoting all of my energy to completely fathoming it’s wisdom. I got a rough grasp on it last night, but didn’t have the energy to unlock all of it’s mysteries…
I would bet the discovery of the coffee bean
has been very instrumental in unlocking many of life’s mysteries.
No horn, watch for finger.
Frinking did a little edit, but maybe he wasn't happy with it?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Cn article about Vino's plan for 2010 just came out
he said what we all expected, wants to do well in Ardennes and Giro, then hopes to support Bert to a Tour win. Here
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
Why does Bert, with only half a team,
look so relaxed while those other guys look like they are trying so hard or are so far behind?
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
Well I think he can safely say that his kit looks better than many ;-)
Where are our fashion police? – Astana 2010 kit
I was unsure at first, but it’s growing on me.
A real step down I think. Getting rid of navy blue makes the uniforms look really washed out.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
It's a step back to the original
which was more like the flag of Kazachstan. More pajama-colored again. Otherwise I think it’s a nice clean design.
Nah, I reckon that the Navy had to go.
They’re reclaiming their kit, I suspect. There’s no navy on the flag ;-). The red is a necessary evil – I found it a bit jarring at first, but I’m so used to seeing it on various kits that my mind quickly accepted it.
I hear what you're both saying, but it does have a pyjama feel again
although I don’t hate it..
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
My pyjamas are powder blue with fluffy pink sheep on ;-)
Although I do have a pair which are baby blue with stunned looking black-and-white cows. I’ve never seen Kazakhstan Flag pyjamas… the turquoise and bright yellow combo is a bit vivd to be sleep-inducing, surely…
And yet the black and white cows don't give you nightmares?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Mine are black with skulls on them, and inside the skulls I write the names of my enemies.
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
Guaranteed to induce nightmares...
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I still found the spesh red logo strange
kind of out of place. Cant they do a blue logo? hhehehe
Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!
Perhaps he meant the photo below the group pic?
Yeah – I vote that for our new front page cover-boy picture!
Don't you mean "4 Ever"?
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
Damn.
You two are starting to bring me around. Always admired Vinos’ tries but have had a hard time getting around his bust. Shutup Ursula.
They are persuasive aren't they?
I think it’s partly about Vino’s unabashed(shameless?) enthusiasm as well.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I don't want to alarm you but you're starting to sound like an Australian...
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Ho Ho Ho
Youse guys don’t know snow. -28 as we speak, -35 by daylight. Vino is where? Italy. Pisa. Riding his bike. I wish.
Whilst it was 28+ here
Even the surf was 22 and the light has been golden all day.
PS. ‘Youse’ are sheep and there are no sheep here. Haha
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
By far the best natural fibre... especially when milled in Italy ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
You are living in Utopia right?
-35.. That’s just unhuman cruel.. What do/can you do with your day?!
what are ya a wimp?
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in the coldest place in North America today!
(and 2nd coldest in the world apparently) – http://www.edmontonjournal.com/technology/Edmonton+coldest+place+North+America/2336460/story.html
My sympathies. We're having a heatwave...
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Where do you get all this stuff... or know about it?
Huge electrical storm here but it’s still as hot as hell.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Damn, that's cold.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
I think that we have to see him cheer for the Great One
…before we can count him amongst those worthy of a snow-leopard. There’s a little too much hesitancy in what we’re hearing here…
I don't cheer for Generals.
I cheer for the foot soldiers. Vino was a loyal warrior for Telecom and whats his name. Could probably have won the gold in Sydney. Where, incidently, WADA first tested for EPO and HWNMNBM didn’t try to get on the podium.
Well, it'll be ok then because Vino will be a foot soldier for Bert...
but well said. i have a fondness for foot soldiers too.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
I'm not sure that he can be categorised that easily ;-)
I think that he’s a special case… a little bit unique :-)
I know, but I'm thinking 2010 is the year of the 'Happy Warrior'
in the service of the king. Straight out of the Hero’s Journey. With luck there will be redemption at the end of it.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Heretics everywhere, *sigh*
Frinking will no doubt take issue with the first part (‘in the service of the king’)… I take issue with the second part (the ‘redemption’ bit)…
It's bad isn't it, seeing as I'm on your side?
Bert is the Boy King, no way round that. And I’d be surprise if Vino wasn’t seeking a kind of redemption (of his image). I’m not necessarily suggesting he really believes he needs to be redeemed. Anyway, in my narrative, this is how it plays. Go Vino!
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
At least Seahorse
has got the most important bit of doctrine right ;-)
bronze in the time trial
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Mate, I think that we all died a little that day
I know that I did. And I may have said some unkind things about Vino, back then. (Yeah, OK, many unkind things). But I eventually managed to pick up the shattered pieces of my life and move on. And by the time that he was ready to return to the peloton, I missed him terribly and was more than ready to see him again :-)
Early ice time
Very nice. I bet Maginot Arena remembers me well. ;)
I'm feverished, or the way you want to spell it
by plinytheelder on Dec 13, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Now the last photo on that page is priceless
Vino holding up the leaning tower of Pisa while on his bike – opens in a new window
by thebongolian on Dec 13, 2009 5:06 AM EST up reply actions
Now that's heroic :)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Oh no
That kind of photo is illegal, Vino can now look forward to a loooooong suspension.
Or, it ought to be illegal.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 13, 2009 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
At least Vino used his doping for good...
and used it to attack at all chances, the really pathetic dopers are the ones who were brimming with EPO just to stay in the grupetto.
With Vino, you have to forget ethics and just enjoy the panache. Sport is spectacle, better a dodgy attacker than a honourable dullard.
Cycling is such a dodgy sport, when you look back, you have all sorts of weird teams, Vino/Bert is one for the ages….too funny.
by mister chips on Dec 13, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
As vehemently against doping as I am
I have to agree with you about Vino. Yes, what he did was wrong, but he was soooo much fun to watch. Panache wins my heart. I’m glad he’s back after serving his term because I just love seeing him go ballistic (and not always to great effect, heh heh)
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 13, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
No, Jens! deserved more.
But I do love seeing Vino go ballistic solo. And then detonate. Repeat ad nauseum.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 13, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
So then you must feel the same about The Cobra and DiLuca?
"It looks like talking, but it’s just words that comes out"
~ Andy Schleck
you can find them in the peloton.... well them and bbox
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
yum... little cakes and hot chocolate(?)
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
Oh dear
Back to the pure, unadulterated eastern European pajamas look. So so awful…
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 13, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Pss lou.. I think I just made the logo for our mission
What do you think? Will it work in our battle to let the world love Vino again?
Briljant!
Truly. People will see these and realise that deep in their hearts they do still love Vino.
I’m not sure that we should go as far as adopting the secret handshake, though…
Indeed
Extra credit for a bad crop job that makes him look beheaded.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 13, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
You two are wonderfully incorrigible!
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Spread the what?
Is that big red thing a body part?
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
It's an enlarged heart
Big advantage in the climbing stages.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 13, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Given the composition and subject matter
I wasn’t sure just what part of the anatomy it was… I was thinking lower than the heart. :-)
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
No, I bet he thinks of what apparently is your third choice:
Love = heart, stomach, … (lower still).
I think Vino does not look well in this photo.
He seems to have a problem. What could he be thinking ?
How do I win the TDF with AC on my team ? … How do I win the TDF without AC on my team ? … More fiber in my diet ?
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
Pss.. That's the evil message..
If you see somebody with a problem you reflect that one yourself.. By thinking he has a problem you wonder do I have? Seeing Vino lwt you think: " Hmmm I have a problem with Vino" But than your heart comes to speak and say to you.. He was soo adorable on the bike.. I miss him.. With this sympathy you are joining the team in no time
I need a stronger word than incorrigible... hilarious
especially your use of ‘adorable’.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Ummm... Frinkster...
I actually need help with some Frinklish here, please. (Yeah, I know… all that I can put it down to is that it’s Monday, and I did not get much sleep last night)
’lwt ’ …? (as in: “Seeing Vino lwt you think”)
I'm wondering if you will ever adopt 'adorable'...
I’m trying to remember if I’ve ever used it :)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Well, it's fitting. He's worthy of adoration.
But I can’t see myself saying /typing that word without a special conscious effort… but you knew that ;-)
Me think it was let I meant..
And I use adorable all the time.. I work with children and they are most of the time.. adorable
I am hanging my head in shame. I am sorry to have troubled you.
Of COURSE you meant ‘let’. I failed to observe one of the very basic diagnostic steps – a glance at the keyboard. Shameful.
They're very lucky if you find them adorable
and yes, I would only use the word for children ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
It's a compliment.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Vino does seems to be very loving if not lovable...
Here he is again with the affectionate touch towards AC:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/contador-and-vinokourov-present-new-astana-kit/98396
No horn, watch for finger.
Alberto seems to be admiring the fit of Vino's shorts.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
Thank god it's morning here
‘cause I’m sure I’d have nightmares, after reading this…
It's just sound strategy
And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army or a cycling team should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other’s side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
Cycling. Greek literature.
PdC is all about appreciation of the Classics.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
Suddenly realised I'd lapsed into idiom and went to google
Imagine my delight when this was no 4 on a search…
http://myblah-blah.blogspot.com/2006/02/with-gay-abandon-i-doth-my-cap-to-thee.html
Ha! Great find.
But whatever you’re doing to your cap, it seems to be a compliment, so I’ll take it.
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
V impressed you went to Plato
I went to Mills and Boon…
They took their helmets off, and rested them (capriciously?) on their handlebars…only now was their true beauty apparent to each other…..Alberto lookly away shyly….. Vino reached out to Alberto…. etc etc.
Very nice!
Team Mills & Boon…now there’s a VDS possibility…
It’s a bit sad because we all really liked Wiggo, and I think he wasn’t quite as noble as he could have been in his departure--David Millar
A nice thought perhaps
but it would be more persuasive if Thebes hadn’t turned out to be the Sheffield Wednesday of City-States.
The little chain link icon and the popup window
is a function to turn some text into a link. So you need some text as well. Easiest is to type something first, select it, then click the little link icon. Alternatively, just paste the link directly into the body of your post.
Ah.
Duh. Thanks. I really shouldn’t be allowed near the internet when I’m overtired and stressed.
Alternatively, perhaps I was just overcome by the tenderness of Vino and Alberto’s love.
You lot may come to regret this...
… ‘cause I have a nasty feeling that the Accountant may end up being referred to as ’Vino’s BF’…
I like it...
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Very interesting tour coming up - with so many contenders and so many different strategies
I think it is going to be fascinating… For anyone trying to control the race, there are such different challenges –
-you’ve got to fight the Shack doing the old Disco dance of 5 guys on the front hammering till everyone blows
- the Schlecklet is a good enough climber that he is essentially unmarkable – the team leader has to deal with him man to man
- you’ve got to decide whether you chase Sastre on one of his patent long solo climbs
- Wiggo and Evans will be threats so long as they can work out whose wheel to mark (and I’m not being critical)
- you have half a ton of Italian hairgel trying to hit the front while staying perfectly coiffed
- and all the while you have AC as the undefeated champ
The potential is for some really great climbing stages – and a very chaotic race.
That's the hope
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 14, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
A tasty stew
And you’ve forgotten some ingredients: Menchov, Vandevelde and (if he’s allowed to race) Valverde. Frank Schleck too as Saxo’s plan B. Possibly Gesink and the Belgian Climbing Sensation
by thebongolian on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Astana team getting too much credit
Experienced but weak. A lot of second and third tier climbers with no power. No one on this team will be left on a climb when the field is under 20 riders. (Tiralongo should be closest.) No strong men for the flats, though Grivko is a nice addition. The cobbles are going to be really interesting with this team.
That said, Contador still wins unless he has an ‘Armstrong in 2003’ scenario. If that happens, I wonder a bit if my home team, Saxo, has the goods to take advantage. The team is a lot weaker than it used to be….the gap between the Schlecks and the next best guy in the mountains (the Sorensens) was pretty large last Tour.
Agree on Saxo
They seem to be losing quite a lot – do I remember rumours of money trouble with Riis Racing?
KA Aversen has gone to Sky, Jens and Stuey must be close to the end of the road etc etc. Plus, I think that Frank must be better used as a domestique / reserve option than a true protected / contender – but I’m not sure that works for Andy, let alone Frank
Perhaps the saving grace is the continued development of Spartacus as mountain domestique – he put in a heck of a lot of work last time, and it seems that his career ark is moving ever towards all-rounder rather than pure TT-er.
Saxo have some young climby guys that may get the nod next year. Both CAS and Fuglsang both complete their first grand tour last year. They are both going nowhere but up (pun intended).
"It looks like talking, but it’s just words that comes out"
~ Andy Schleck
Breschel will be a stud on the flats also
If they blow off the Giro again next year, the team might be A Schleck, F Schleck, Cancellara, CA Sorensen, N Sorensen, Larsson, Breschel, Fuglsang, and one last round for Jens.
That team kicks ass on paper. But I wonder if they have the capacity to do what they did to set up Sastre for his big win on the Alpe. They didn’t have it last season. Cancellara is my favorite rider in the sport. But even he was weaker on the climbs last year