2010 Virtual Directeur Sportif: Proposed Rider Prices and Update!
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 2:40 PM EST
in FSA Directeur Sportif
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Just in time for the holidays...
One of the unfortunate aspects of web-based existence is that when a project is going on behind the scenes, 99% of us would have no idea. Well, quiet as things may have seemed, the reality is that we have made tremendous progress on the 2010 VDS. One member of our community is actually designing the application we will use to run the show. And what a show it will be... fully automated except for race results, which themselves should be incredibly easy to input and cause us to have full-on VDS updates within minutes after a race. Minutes! Or that's the plan. Anyway, this is going to be a humongous step forward.
Continued on the flip...
Second, the dates: Omloop Het Nieuwsblad will be our season opener, as has traditionally been the case. Again, apologies to our Australian friends for not being able (logistically) to capture the TdU; perhaps we can think creatively about how to score that next time. It's not personal... and I'll even sing Waltzing Matilda to prove it. Anyway, we are planning to open the competition February 1, with a deadline sometime on February 26, the day before the Omloop.
Next, you've probably already seen info regarding our new, beefy race calendar, designed to capture every race that matters much and result in the all-new Podium Cafe World Rankings. If not, familiarize yourself before February, because these races will decide the VDS. Perhaps not as much as in past years (more in a moment), but the lesser results that were harder to anticipate often make the difference between coming close on the VDS table and pulling away.
Why they might not matter as much? Well, here's some insight into our new rider pricing philosophy: we went expensive this time around. Last year we cut prices, which had the general effect of the better-known, safer-bet cyclists being more affordable. The idea was to make for some hard choices: if you could have a lot of great options, presumably people would come out with widely varied teams. This worked better at distributing the lower level guys, but did nothing to solve the redundancy regarding the top riders. Seemingly everyone had Contador, Andy Schleck, Cavendish, and a few others. Way too many teams looked alike, if only because serious fans all had a pretty good idea of what to expect from the top 20% of the peloton.
Now, prices have gone back up. Here's a sampling of the top few echelons:
- Contador, Valverde: 32 points
- Cancellara, Cavendish, Evans, Gilbert: 28 pts
- Boasson Hagen, Sanchez, ASchleck, Hushovd: 24 pts
- Boonen, Menchov: 22 pts
- Cunego, Farrar, Gesink: 20 pts
And so forth. Same budgets as before: 150 points for 25 riders. We will add in some additional restrictions on the number of big-name riders per team, details later. Anyway, everyone who scored well this year will cost you next time. It's the new economy -- tighten your belt and start hunting for bargains! This will make things a bit harder on casual fans, but then luck is always a big factor. Ask Megabeth. And the real purpose is, I hope, a whole slew of teams that bear little resemblance to one another. I really believe this will make things more fun. Last year was great, but it simply isn't terribly exciting to see your guy win when 85 other teams got the same points. Anyway, here's your link [Updated!]:
2010 Proposed VDS Rider Prices
Please peruse at leisure or scan carefully for any and all potential problems. Those would be: misspellings; missing riders; wrong teams; and riders listed twice. Missing riders are a special case -- if a guy isn't on the list, you can't draft him. If there is someone you'd like but don't want to broadcast your interest, email the name to me at podiumcafe@yahoo.com with something like "missing rider" in the subject line. I'll fwd it to Ursula.
Which reminds me: if you don't like the new points, blame Ursula. OK, several of us had a hand in the new listing. And as usual, while we like how we worked stuff out, we are open for now to some debate. If you want to propose a different price, discuss in the comments. But! We will not change pricing because you have a hunch about a guy. We set prices based on what the rider did last year, plus some objectively knowable stuff about why 2010 might be different. We try not to adjust prices because a guy looks like he's about to break out or collapse; otherwise you'd have a list of guys in the order that the editors like them, as opposed to one based in reality. So if you want to propose a new price, let us know what objective criteria (like, change in team; he was injured last year but is now healthy; etc.) argue in favor of a new price.
Thanks all!
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My 2 fav riders and over half my points gone.... hmmmmm
Guessing i need a new tact for picking riders this year…
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
Exactly!
But then getting to know and love the guys further down the list isn’t such a bad thing…
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
that's true....
hmm now to start planning the winning team..
"the rest was over 30. And that doesn't mean old and useless, but experienced and with the stamina"
Jens! Voigt, Crit Intl Interview, 2009
32?!
you son of a bitch you! This means I may actually have to use my brain to pick my team…and math? Oh…..my…..god.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
You're not going to take that,
are you Ursula?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
You mean Phil H. has a brain that he can pick?
I’m sure leading scientists have already disproven that theory.
Hey! We could raise Bert back up to he 35 point level that we had him in earlier versions if you'd like...
And still if Bert rides the Vuelta he will be a huge bargain at 32 points. Or if he wins a couple of the races that he didn’t last year… Paris-Nice…Catalunya… Dauphine. He actually might be a bargain at 32 points. Or not. You decide.
I am picking Bert anyway
but now who else will I pick? This will require me to use that brain that has been scientifically proven to be non-functional to make smart choices…that’s my issue.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
but why is bert the highest?
He didn’t score the most last year did he? Not complaining, just wondering. (and besides, guy really has a lot to learn, srsly)
He and Valverde
were very close in numbers, and Bert projects to match or exceed his 2009 total, depending on whether he attends the Vuelta.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
What!?!
No Bauke Mollema?
You should be ashamed of yourself Mr. Coming Dutch Hegemony!
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
Honestly
The first guy I looked up to see how expensive he was.
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
Bauke Bauke Bauke
There will be no VDS without Bauke Mollema. I’ll cancel the damn thing first.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
That explains why I missed him
He has BARGAIN written all over him. He’ll be in 70% of the teams if you guys don’t raise the price.
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
done
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
That is wrong!
I’l fix that one. ut I feel vindicated that he’s on the list.
Ursula dodges a bullet. Breathes a sigh of relief.
Riders overview...
i already was preparing an excel sheet with riders and their teams in 2009 and 2010.
This list now is almost up-to-date for the ProTour and PTC teams. Sent it to Chris (podiumcafe@yahoo.com) some minutes ago.
Thanks Frank
Ursula, I’ll fwd. Wonder if there’s a way to compare??
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Just use filter buttons in excel
this makes it easy to select only the riders of one team
unfortunately yours are with ‘firstname lastname’, mine are with ‘lastname, firstname’.
but a selection per team makes it easier to compare
Again in Excel
Data / Text to Columns / Delimited then tick the Space box to break the names up into individual words, then use e.g. “=A1 & A2 & A3” to join them back together in a different order.
Hmmmmm, Large Bomb..........
Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa
No Chicken and Moises Dueñas there?
I want them in my team with Vino, Sella, Ricco, Basso and a bunch of other Italian riders.
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
After I stopped laughing
The list has in theory every Pro Tour and Pro Conti rider-that has a team. (Plus a few Conti team riders who scored points last year. However I drew a line at just including Pro Conti and Pro Tour riders.)
There’s still a large handful of riders that don’t have teams. Like Scott Davis who was the last addition to this list as he is now on Astana. (And I switched his brother’s team in the process.) I figure that we’ll be hearing of new signings continually up until the deadline. So I ask folks here if you see someone not included, or misspelled, or on the wrong team, please write us either here or us the email address Chris wrote above.
Spelling?
I think it’s “inxausti” but could be wrong?
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 24, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
He's there. Line 631.
He’s a 1 pointer. And I have him spelled like CQ does: “Intxausti”. Let me know if he should be spelled differently.
No problem.
There’s a shitload of riders on this list so it’s easy to miss one. And if you can;t find someone else, please ask still-I’m sure I missed a couple.
Danielson at 2 pts
He’s the Duke Nukem Forever of riders. Will this be the year?
Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa
Long List
176 points. Better than I thought..
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
Whoa
Let me guess: you kicked ass at standardized test multiple choice, right? Or at least you finished early.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Always pick C.
If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when are you going to have time to do it again?
by CannonDowell on Dec 23, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Well
that saves time.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Er
Skip? Did I miss a change? I think we were emailing about a bunch of stuff not in 5.0 that will be in 6.0/final. I didn’t go back over all the emails.
So this is a good time to mention that the list is subject to a handful of adjustments. And that Lofkvist is how Thomas spells it on his passport.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Huh.
No the list on my computer has him at 24. Let’s see.
Skip downloads the list from this post. Sees that it’s the wrong list! Quickly emails Chris the correct list.
Okay folks! That first list that Chris posted above is an earlier version. There are a couple changes since then, minor ones mostly with Thor actually being 24 points now and not 22. Chris will update the link when he has time but for now the linked list is fine for 99.99% of the riders.
Oy
Your tax dollars at work…
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Great Work!
I like the new setup. Bringing in so many smaller races will make the 1-6 point categories very interesting.
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
Thanks.
There were several of these double entries. I figure that most of them have been removed already but if you see any more then post ’em here. I will update and in time send the corrections to Chris. In the meantime for these double entries, the more expensive price if the correct one.
OK
The spreadsheet substitution has been made. As of 1:27 pacific, you should get the right one when you open the link. Same link as before. If you see Thor as 24 points, you’re in the right place.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:27 PM EST reply actions
Other double entries
Alessandro Bertolini
Anthony Roux
Jens Mouris
Jeremy Hunt
Jerome Pineau
Kenny Dehaes
Kenny Van Hummel
Martin Reimer
Furthemore there are three BBo riders and all the others are BTL (of BBOX BOUYGUES TELECOM)
Johan Vansummeren has GRN instead of GRM
Christophe LeMevel has FDI instead of FDJ
OMIGOD!
You duplicated Kenny!
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Checked the double entries in the new sheet...
… and they are all gone now. Thanks Chris and Ursula.
Yeah, he's the only one I see too.
He’s now fixed on my spreadsheet which I’ll keep for a few days while other possible errors are found. Then I’ll send it to Chris.
I was going to complain about Boss Hog's value.
But I looked at CQ and his point haul increased four fold, the same as his increase in point value from last year to this one. So, good job.
Sadly
it can’t be any lower. I mean, the guy is just getting started. And Columbia weren’t even featuring the guy, necessarily.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
Boassen-Hagen is very overpriced
He doesn’t have the comparable UCI Points to others in his group = Andy Schleck comes at discount, Gilbert is at 140% of retail, and you pay double for Boassen-Haagen.
This is a game – we all love guys like this – let us have him at retail 12-14 points. We will all have more fun.
Okay to match Boassen-Hagen to his UCI points for placement on this list; It will make for a better game.
Thanks for considering!
by thisisntthezodiac on Dec 28, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Some riders got bumped up a few points because more is expected from them this year.
Some got bumped up because of popularity, to keep them from appearing on every single team. Boss Hogg got bumped for both.
And his retail on this list would be 18-20, so I don’t think a 4-6 point premium is that bad. Those of us who want him will just have to gamble on a couple of lower-priced riders to make up for it.
sorry, you guys are making a 'taking away fun' call for one of the coolest riders.
Thanks all efforts, but no need to bump up anyone for ‘being popular.’ This takes away from the game and is very subjective, especially when you consider we already ‘get’ to make such great decisions like is picking basso okay?, is valverde doping now?, and also…and.
Please let us all have Boassen-Hagen at his 14 point value, please! – he is being held hostage for very fetishistic reasons.
Thank you!
by thisisntthezodiac on Dec 28, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
We hold our fetishes very dear here: Tony's bum, Benna's eyes, Gilbert's talent...
Part of the fun is doing the maths. So if I go with my fetishes, I have to compromise on the rest.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
?
Following the sport is difficult sometimes, and here is a nice chance for us all to be together at the exploits of Boassen-Hagen – no need to put a premium on his 12-14 points just to ‘control the game.’
But flipside thanks for not noticing Andy Schleck won Leige and went 2nd at the TDF last year. Contract.
by thisisntthezodiac on Dec 28, 2009 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
12-14 points is way too low for EBH.
Boasson Hagen earned 1181 VDS points last season. The 12-14 pointers are expected to earn 800-900 points next year. It makes no sense to drop him well below last year’s level, especially given that the guy is very young, on an upward trajectory, and now on a team which should give him more opportunities than he had last year at Columbia.
Andy Schleck was also bumped up in price.
You already said EBH's value was maybe 18
24 – 18 = 6 points of vig vs. 18 – 14 = 4 points of bargain.
Less of a swing than you guys put on it.
EBH is great, but he also put up some points as TT champ OF NORWAY, and and whatever, his points total is way out of whack vs riders around him. Maybe he is just too special a Barbie doll for everyone to have?
Lance Armstrong at 16 points is also a total hostage, and regret this comes as no surprise at the PDC.
But okay, thanks all efforts and please release Lance and EBH to the wanting masses!
by thisisntthezodiac on Dec 29, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
EBH
his big increase comes from moving from a team that considered him a spare part and joining a team where he’s the centerpiece. This is one of the objective criteria we use to adjust a rider’s place. If he were still at Columbia, we wouldn’t have priced him up as much.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 29, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
EBH's age precludes him from being seen as a spare part.
LIke other young special riders he has earned a free ride at this year’s TDF, where he plans to ‘try to win a stage.’
No one could foresee the 2009 Giro performance, which was late in his year. No fault to Columbia there, imo – just managing a young rider.
He doesn’t rate at 24 points. See: 2009: Gesink, Robert
Free Lance. Free EBH!
Thank you!
by thisisntthezodiac on Dec 29, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, time to have fun looking for misspellings! All ümlaut disregard is forgiven though.
Thomas Lofkvist = I thought Lovkvist was the preferred spelling in the English…
David Moncoutie = Without the é the French may sue you
Bernhardt Eisel = Bernhardt sans T
Leif Hoste = \o/
Wigglypuff Cav Crunch, Breakfast of Madison Champions!
Please
DO NOT bring up the Lofkvist spelling issue! This is the third rail of VDS rider scoring deliberations.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 23, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
SELLA!!!
He is so back on my team!
I LOVE that corrupt little fella- even if he is a snitch! LoL!!!
Same with Basso!
The Smiling Hashashins II?
The Flatulent Flahutes?
Que Cera, CERA?
What will it be?
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
Can we make suggestions about adding continental riders to the list that are not on it if they scored
points in races that are new to the calendar? If so, then a few more continental riders need inclusion.
—I also think that Graeme Brown is a bit overpriced. He would have to have a career year to be justified as a good pick by VDS standards. Plus with scores going ever higher in VDS then he is going to have to place in a lot of races which he has not always done consistently in the past.
-Some riders that should be at least a 2 instead of a 1: Rasmus Guldhammer (big performance in Denmark), Stefan Denifl (Top 10 in Austria), Jose Ventoso (won 9 sprints last year albeit at the conti level for A-style), Oscar Sevilla (if Rock gets its pro conti license), Romain Sicard (won Subida Naranco last year with his World Champ and Avenir exploits), Jose Rujano, Branislau Samoilau (3rd Overall in Austria and National ITT winner). Aleksejs Saramotins (won Munsterland Giro)
Spreadsheet Corrections:
Dom Rollin has ? for the team. He will still be on Cervelo next year. Same with Roger Hammond. Zubeldia has the ?? which should be Radio Shack. Eric Baumann is on a new continental team- NetAPP so I guess that gets the ////. Vanlandschoot is still on Verandas-Wilems which is still continental. Manuel Vasquez Huesco is now on Andalucia-Cajasur from Contentpolis. Joaquin Sobreno is spelled Sobrino but he has not found a team yet. And Nelson Oliveria is going to be on Xacobeo Galicia and not Garmin. Luca Paolini is listed as a rider on SKY when he is on Acqua & Sapone. Aurelien Clerc did not come to an agreement with BMC and he has retired. Preben Van Hecke name is spelled ‘Prenem’
And now I need to sleep…
“Allan Davis” = Alan Davis
“Riccardo Ricco” = Ricardo Ricco
Beppu’s team is doubtful but should be SKS or RSH, not SKU.
I don’t think it is helpful to invent team codes like RAD. Other codes have changed (like THR→TCH). These are the 2010 codes from CQr:
ProTour
AST Astana – Samruk
GCE Caisse d’Epargne
EUS Euskaltel – Euskadi
FUJ Footon – Servetto
FDJ Française des Jeux
GRM Garmin – Transitions
LAM Lampre – Farnese Vini
LIQ Liquigas – Doimo
SIL OmegaPharma – Lotto
QST Quick Step
RAB Rabobank
TCH Team Columbia – HTC
KAT Team Katusha
MRM Team Milram
RSH Team RadioShack
SAX Team Saxo Bank
SKY Team Sky
Professional Continental
ASA Acqua & Sapone
ACA Andalucia – CajaSur
SDA Androni Giocattoli – Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni
BBO Bbox – Bouygues Telecom
BMC BMC Racing Team
CMO Carmiooro – NGC
CCC CCC – Polsat – Polkowice
CDC Centri della Calzatura – Cavaliere
FLM Ceramica Flaminia – Bossini Docce
CTT Cervélo Test Team
COF Cofidis
CSF Colnago – CSF Inox
MCO Contentpolis – Murcia ???
DER De Rosa – Stac Plastic
ISD ISD – Neri
LAN Landbouwkrediet
MRZ Mroz – Action
RRC Rock Racing
SAU Saur – Sojasun
SJC Scott – Marcondes Cesar – Sao Jose dos Campos
SKS Skil – Shimano
TSV Topsport Vlaanderen – Mercator
VAC Vacansoleil Pro Cycling Team
VBG Vorarlberg – Corratec
XGZ Xacobeo – Galicia
Excuse my ignorance
and unwillingness to check facts before posting. Allan and Riccardo are spelt correctly. Sorry!
wow
around 900 riders and almost a hundred races. I know so little about so few. 25 riders and 150 points means an average price of 6 points per rider which means your team has to be mainly composed of the cheap guys. I’ve gotta lot to learn. Either that or just write a program to go through and find the best team based on this year’s price and last year’s points. Or could do like last year and just pick any name i either recognized or made sense, like ben swift.
Last week of nfl fantasy and the rider list shows up. What timing.
Oh. Woops.
I am going to stick my neck out and say he’ll do something in 2010. I think he’ll be better off at Euskie. Of course this may be wishful thinking….
Gilbert fans are penalized!
Okay, yes but whatever – thanks for this.
Putting Valverde in the ‘cheater’ category, looks like the points system will push people away from Contador and Cav, which fine – but there’s a difference between having a lot of UCI points vs being ‘the fastest in the world,’ which Cav and Contador are, and so some of the B guys are expensive.
It might be prudent to project a scoring dropoff from Boassen-Hagen and Gilbert, they are much less projectable than the big stage racers and top sprinters. To the contrary, noting Cancellara has kept his value one year to the next, but also noting his exceptional riding in recent years, too.
Curious about other restrictions coming, but looks like the flipside is that if you don’t go with Cav and Contador (and Gilbert – 4 points more than Dancin’ Andy!), you can have ‘everyone else.’
Thanks!
by thisisntthezodiac on Dec 27, 2009 11:32 PM EST reply actions
Dutch Races
You have now:
Ronde van het Groene Hart
Ronde van Drenthe
Amstel Gold Race
Ster Elektrotour
Tour de Benelux
Only 5 races from the glorious nation of Holland and dependencies!
Why not include the Tour de Zeeland? Farrar won it this year. Petacchi was there too.
I’d pick Tour de Rijke above Ronde van Drenthe. April is full enough as it is and you know you only picked Drenthe because the Vuelta started there. The Tour de Rijke is around Rotterdam. Which is pretty significant this year I’d say. Plus, it goes through my back yard. The Ronde van het Mergelland is nice too.
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
Or Veenendaal-Veenendaal
on Fri 13 Aug 2010. UCI “HC” category. They strive having 10 ProTour teams at the start, this year they had 5 when the race was still in the spring.
I was going to suggest that one
But Dutch Food Valley Classic just sounds too silly. But let’s include them all. Especially the cool-sounding Hel van het Mergelland.
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
OK
I will probably make some adjustments to the Dutch calendar. I will defer to local expertise here.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 29, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Misspelling
Stephanie Auge = Stéphane Augé
At least get rid of the i. It’s a girl’s name like that.
Eugeni Petrov = Evgeni Petrov
Football is a game, cycling a sport.
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