Zirbel A Sample Positive for DHEA
by Jen See on Dec 27, 2009 9:31 PM EST
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According to a story over at Podium Insight, Tom Zirbel's A sample at the U.S. Pro time trial championship tested positive. The Team Bissell rider placed second in the championship event behind David Zabriskie of Garmin-Slipstream. Zirbel tested positive for exogenous DHEA, a synthetic steroid. DHEA also figured in the case of Tyler Hamilton, who tested positive for the same substance in April 2009.
After his successes this season, Zirbel signed to ride with Garmin-Transitions for the coming season, but his absence from a recently published roster prompted questions about his status. Sunday, Zirbel released a statement in which he announced the A sample violation, and said he was waiting for the results of the B sample. He also said that while the US Pro TT was a "major objective," he would never compromise his integrity for "any bike race." He declined to speculate on how the positive test may have occured. Garmin-Transitions, meanwhile, has terminated the contract with Zirbel.
Zirbel's case marks the second doping problem for Team Bissell, who fired Kirk O'Bee in July of this year for an unspecified doping offense.
Photo, Christian Petersen, Getty Images Sport.
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i took mine down
your writing is better anyway :) this is a bit of a headspinner. just about to go to bed and this comes up. i didn’t think he was a rider who’d be caught up in this kind of thing. damn.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
I think IQ tests should be mandatory
Zirbel is not really a blip on my radar, but every time someone tests positive I think about how mind bogglingly stupid he/she is.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
that's just it though
he really, really, didn’t seem the type. i know that’s a pretty stupid thing to say, but there it is. plus he was on the verge of starting 2010 with garmin, and they have really stringent checks on riders they want to hire…why would he mess up a chance of racing on the pro tour for a national championship? it seems strange. this one’s got legs i think.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
I rest my case ... about being terminally stupid
providing of course the B sample is positive.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
Hmm, where have I heard that type of response to a positive dope test?
Oh from every rider that has been caught doping before. I’d love for a rider to come out and say “yep that was me, my bad”, would be funny.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
yeah
never happen though.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
DHEA is available over the counter here in the USA, not so much every where else.
It’s quite possible that his vitamin or other legal supplements were contaminated, but that is still his responsibility. It sucks for him if it was tainted legal supplements, it would be nice to be know the companies who make these mistakes also had a some responsibility in matters like this but that’s not happening anytime soon.
"Drawing on my fine command of language I said nothing."- Groucho
Fucking Fuckity Fuck
"Some people are like slinkies - not really good for anything but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs."
Hate To Break It To You...
…but in the entire history of USADA, there has been only ONE “B” sample result that did not match an “A” sample positive.
In other words, don’t count on it, dansel.
by Chief Commissaire on Dec 27, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not...
Doubly playing it safe and overly hopeful.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 27, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
The funny thing is that he did worse in this year's TT than he did in last year's TT when he was only like 15 seconds from Zabriskie
While I am hoping that it was from a tainted supplement and not from a choice made by him, I doubt it will come out that way.
It has happened before in the past with U.S. athletes like Amber Neben and Scott Moninger but I am not holding my breath. Another rider I admired tainted, at least for the time being.
I think Zirbel was about the same this year as last.
DZ just went CRA-Z this year.
No horn, watch for finger.
Still...He had to dope to go the same speed as he did un-doped
plus it was more favorable conditions this year if I remember.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 27, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
Bissell = Dopers?
First O’Bee, now Zirbel.
If Bissell was a ProTour team, this board would be on fire.
I can’t see Bissell (the company) putting up with this trend much longer.
by Chief Commissaire on Dec 27, 2009 10:51 PM EST reply actions
To defend against the institutionalized doping stance,
O’Bee was a known doper before coming to Bissell so they was just mistake in hiring him in the first place. I will reserve judgement until the whole thing plays out on Zirbel but it isn’t like this is the first time that an American team has had this happen.
The whole team now is going to get a bad rap for 2 bad apples when a lot of those guys have fought tooth and nail to get where they are today naturally.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 27, 2009 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
agreed....Jacques-Maynes brothers are huge on riding clean.
Ben posted this for Tom:
Tom, you are a agreat guy and I’ve ranted with you against doping. I believe in you and hope for the best.
Michael Creed posted this:
I wish everyone knew the Zirbel I know. This would be so much clearer, and so much more heart wrenching. I wish I could help him.
….both summarize how I feel.
Any one who has read Creed will know that he does not pull punches.
He is as we say out west a “straight shooter”. I suspect if he had any idea this were an intentional doping incident, he would not be supportive.
by Christopher See on Dec 28, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
Guilt by association isn’t complete nonsense in the cycling world, I admit. But it does make me terribly uncomfortable. We’ve seen plenty of solo dopers over the years.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 28, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I am astonishingly astonished!
Zirbel has the inspiring backstory of college-degreed-pizza-deliverer-turned-professional-cyclist who scored his ultimate contract at like at age thirty, the year of his greatest successes, but like so many others before him is now subject to severe editing of the wobegone cyclist doing whatever it takes to live up to expectations.
Wigglypuff Cav Crunch, Breakfast of Madison Champions!
dhea????
at least dope w/something that works.
I mean really the stuff has been proven not to enhance performance, so why is it on the list?
by R Mc on Dec 27, 2009 11:03 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, it's an odd one
though it is a steroid. I wonder if it is used in connection with something else, ie, as part of a program, because this isn’t the first time it has come up.
Usually part of a program
It isn’t clear that DHEA alone has any performance enhancing effect, but it is apparently used in conjunction with other steroids in doping cycles. Incidentally, this is what Tyler Hamilton tested positive for in 2009.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
Got it
I wondered if that might be the case – that it’s used as part of a cycle. In my spare time, I was planning to wander over to the scary body-building forums and learn more.
i don't like...
the fact that he said he’d never heard of it before the positive…he seems like a good guy, but so did TH.
So, you're all saying a guy with a Chemestry Degree . . .
. . . . who’s first step after receiving knowledge of his positive then hires Paul Scott to observe the B Sample test; MUST be a doper because he was found with a substance in him that does not typically fit the typical doping product used in this sport?
And yet, nobody mentions that the lab has taken 3 weeks to provide the report of the B Sample.
Nope, that doesn’t seem odd. . . . NOoooo . . . .
+1...Just saw the new news and I agree. He seems to know what is going on and not putting up a crazy defense
I can’t believe it takes them that long to review just one sample.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 28, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
So far . . . .
. . . . it is nice to see nobody is out grandstanding about this from USA Cycling, the USDA, or the WADA.
I wish that . . .
. . . part of the B sample would be shipped to the UCLA lab so the test can be repeated there just to act as a clear verifying reference to the methodology used in the Salt Lake Lab.
I think when stuff pops up out of the blue like this, there needs to be further investigation on the overall process simply in order to reaffirm the process and proceedures are stable.
Maybe it should be procedure that every B sample is tested at a different lab
To me as a layman this would seem to be the obvious way to go for both fairness reasons and for improving the scientific method. I think the athlete has the option to request this but (in the cases where not many labs can do the specific test ?) it isn’t always granted.
I agree
It seems to be an easy way to ensure testing validity when we know that labs in general are sometimes prone to error.
by Douglas Ansel on Dec 28, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Bah
Both the “it’s illogical to do this so it wasn’t true” and the “doping labs are tainted” defences are sooooo stale.
The "tainted labs" thing really ticks me off too
but I will grant that it is world I know nothing about. I would however like to see a review made of the quality controls of the WADA labs that is not done by some defence-attorney in the heat of a doping-case.
Can't beleive
how long these labs take. He was tested Aug. 29th doesn’t find out he was positive until Nov.?
Here’s the latest from CN
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zirbel-denies-knowingly-ingesting-dhea?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=news_headlines
Obviously
Contaminated supplement. Case closed.
It is known that quite a high percentage of otc supplements are contaminated. The best riders are tested often. ..ergo…
Im surprised it doesnt happen more often.
Meanwhile Valverde is in Lanzaroate,or wherever, preparing for the season. Hilarious.
So?
Still his own damn fault, especially if this part of what you say is true: “It is known that quite a high percentage of otc supplements are contaminated.” Supplements are not necessary.
I use chocolate chip supplements
they work well
-———-
At least this was before Jan 1st, so we can all hope for a drug-free 2010 ….
Moo
Are you sure supplements aren't necessary?
I don’t really know. It just seems to me that all the main guys on the main teams take some sort of not-illegal supplements. Lance, Levi, and others are pretty out front in their advertisements for them. I doubt that my favorite teams — Saxo, Garmin — are any different.
Seems that this is where it helps to have a Lefevre, Riis, or a Bruyneel as team manager. I assume have a certain presence in dealing with suppliers and ensuring quality control, because the consequences of providing a screwed-up shipment would be immense. Every rider I can think of who has been popped for a pointless drug of this nature has been on a weak team.
by Mr 60 Percent on Dec 28, 2009 7:03 AM EST up reply actions
Big teams - better medicinal support
(and I don’t mean in a nasty way). Teams with full time docs can help riders find and use “safe” products. Probably riders are required to clear it with the team what stuff they use. Riders on smaller teams are probably left to their own devices.
Personally I think (like tedvdw) at this point that over-caution should be the way for riders. If you cannot be 100% a product is ok, don’t use it. If you test positive, I’m sorry but you will have to take the consequenses. Tyler H said as much when he tested positive for DHEA.
"Supplements not necessary"
For once really disagree ted.
Much good work being done in sports nutrition and increased use of them one of the reasons I am starting to believe in cleaner cycling. The teams now all pay much greater attention to diet and supplements – see for example this on cervelo
http://www.zipvitsport.co.uk/training-advice/
And is throwing up ideas like taking arginine after suffering road rash as promotes healing and enables deep massage to resume earlier etc etc
But it does mean you really need a reputable supplier!
Supplements are a shortcut for normal, balanced nutrition
Planning, shopping, preparing and eating all that good healthy food costs time and money. Supplements may be economical or easier, especially when the athlete is responsible for all the food logistics himself. But, after having coached several world class rowers, I remain convinced that supplements are not necessary.
For a three week race?
I’m with you in daily practice. And I think classics riders can probably be competitive with balanced nutrition alone. Never mind that they haven’t.
But do you think normal, balanced nutrition can cancel out the need for quality supplements over a three-week tour? I wouldn’t advise Andy to do that next Tour.
Besides, it seems to me that useful legal supplements are a net positive by giving riders the sense that they’re getting a little something to help them recover, and therefore they feel less need to go to the explicitly unhealthy products of the dark side.
by Mr 60 Percent on Dec 28, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
The adverse psychological effect
is that it expands the grey area. “Why can’t I use this if can use that?”
Disagree - Bike Racing not normal lifestyle
I think supplements are “normal balanced nutrition” for racers. If they really wanted normal and balanced they wouldn’t be racers in the first place. They are way out, many sigmas, from normal in their physical abilities and where they have pushed their metabolism. Using normal diet would be abnormal to me in that regime. That is why supplements are the healthy thing to do. Any diet that does the same thing is not going to look much like a “normal balanced diet” to anyone not a racer anyway and whether one gets big amounts of argenine from a steak or wild quail or a supplement, well the last might be the healthiest and most environmentally sound.
as for the "most environmentally sound"
part: doubt it.
Supplement acquisition and production is a messy proposition.
Just ask the menhaden.
Sorry, but
that is what I imagine to be a typical doper mentality: taking shortcuts. I say: if you can’t do it without pills, you just can’t do it.
However, objective criteria are impossible, or at least they will be arbitrary, just like the doping list is now. There is no way to define “artificial.” Energy bars or oxygen tents are examples of things might be over the line some and not for others. It will always be a gliding scale. One way might be try to have only “unhealthy” stuff on the doping list but that, too, opens a can of worms. I am not morally opposed to taking supplements, I just think it is not necessary or worth the risk.
article on nutrition
quick and easy:
http://journals.lww.com/acsm-msse/Fulltext/2009/03000/Nutrition_and_Athletic_Performance.27.aspx
i supplement minimally to compensate for what i don’t process well in certain forms as a result of celiac disease – this is especially true with proteins which my immune system sometimes reacts to strangely when it gets confused about types of proteins i’ve ingested (celiac disease being basically a hereditary autoimmune response to a particular protein). also, if you experience cascading, as many people with autoimmune disorders do, other parts of your system can conk out and you can develop sensitivities that you did not previously have. so although not necessary provided that you can process/absorb normal foods normally, some supplements can help those who do not. celiac athletes face ongoing challenges – good thing i’m not a professional athlete, i guess!
Hmm
I think you are over-stating the physiological stresses of racing and training for a fit athlete. Seriously. It’s not that other-worldly or complicated. You eat, you sleep, you train. Wash, rinse, repeat.
I’m not an especially talented athlete, but I could carry 300 mile weeks on regular food, no supplements. It’s not a moral issue for me, but more practicality, cost and safety. Supplements are notoriously sketchy, even leaving aside the question of doping controls.
you mot equaling especially talented athletically
is a little bit like saying I know which end of he saw has teeth on it. I accept your point though… ;^)
by Christopher See on Dec 28, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Well, presumably they won't/shouldn't be using a "normal" diet
if normal is what the average schlub eats. But the average schlub eats pretty poorly, I’d say.
They’re athletes, not aliens. If they have greater needs, this should be covered in a well balanced diet by their also greater food consumption. Unless we are talking about climbers trying to drop weight on some crazy Chicken-esque rice cakes and water diet, in which case, yes, you’d presumably need supplements in order to maintain basic health, let alone high performance.
Looking at the Cervelo plan above, for example, I’m left wondering why there are Vitamin C supplements on there. Of all the things that are easy to include in a diet….
I wish I had an exploding space modulator.......
Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa
ja
I have a hard time at this point with the tainted supplement defense, even if, as in the case of Scott Moninger, it may be true. At this point, everyone should know that supplements can be – and very often are – tainted with illegal substances.
He shall be villified regardless of intent
You have to be careful with the products you take, because the doping cases continue and the lessons haven’t been learned by everybody.
But I too find it ridiculous that a guy like Valverde should still be allowed to ride, considering his intent to dope was clear (at least in my mind, and in the minds of CONI officials), not to mention the hoopla the Spanish Court system has gone through to seal the evidence. Shady double standards, huh?
See the front page
maybe it’ll cheer you up now.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 28, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Contract terminated with Garmin-Transitions
I am sure this is in a fanpost somewhere, but considering it is directly related to this story thought I would point it out for those who hadn’t yet seen. Looks like CN is reporting that Garmin-Transitions terminated his contract for the upcoming season. Not really a surprise there considering the anti-doping stance that Garmin has taken during the existence.
While you're editing,
perhaps reverse the last two sentences of the first paragraph? At least I read it twice to make sure you weren’t saying TH and TZ were on the same team.
This is a tremendous bummer
So let me get this straight… ZIrbel tests positive for a drug that 1) does not enhance performance and 2) is commonly found as a contaminant in supplements? Clearly the guy fucked up and drank some bad tea or something. Still, he’s going to be be punished. The only bright side for him is that the WADA anti-doping code now has provisions for accidental, unintended “doping”, but you have to clearly demonstrate how you ingested the substance, where it came from, etc., and the punishment is still at least a year suspension, not to mention saying adios to his Garmin contract which is not coming back. I very much doubt he will be able to prove it was the tea. Bummer…
I am not sure about both your points
Is it not performance enhancing? Sure, as a steroid it is not anabolic but apparently there are all sorts of effects being researched (“fountain of youth!”). And is it commonly found as a contaminant? Seems quite exotic to be so common.
The performance enhancing seems unclear
It is mentioned in x number of different contexts. Steroid-like, used as one part of steroid-cocktail, masking agent. Some sources dismiss it’s effects as negligible. At the very least a lot of people on the dark side seem to think it is effective so writing it off as a performance enhancer is premature.
I agree though that it seems pretty likely it is an unintended fuckup on Zirbel’s part. The price is likely to be pretty hefty for him.
My vote is for unitended fuckup
Whether or not the stuff is a “common” contaminant is a bad choice of words on my part. The point I was trying to make is that everyone who has gotten popped in the last few years was doping with something that they thought was new and undetectable and was a guaranteed performance enhancer, like CERA, and not with something like this stuff which is easily detectable and of arguable effectiveness. Just doesn’t make sense that he was taking it on purpose. Then again, I like Zirbel and want to believe he is clean, so take that for what it’s worth.
+1 Zirbel certainly has my vote.
What sucks is this, I think/hope he will come away with a verdict of unintentional usage and a 1 year ban. But what the hell does that matter? Sure he will keep his integrity for the most part, but his career is screwed, totally fuk’n screwed.
No horn, watch for finger.
Read an interview with him at VeloNews
not sure if someone already posted the link, so sorry if this a double post. He says that if he is finished with racing, then his fall back plan is to become a high school science teacher, and since the world needs more high school science teachers, if he is done, then I am a lot less bummed.
Respectfully disagreeing
Personally I think he should get the same two years as anyone else who tests positive, regardless of how nice and cooperative a guy he seems to be. Maybe the last 10 years have made me a bit cynical, but he’s not the first rider to be shocked — shocked! — that he tested positive.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
Gimme a break!
Now what in the world has happened in the sport of cycling over the last 10 years to make you so damn cynical. Someone send Pendleton to OZ (not Australia) to get a heart.
No horn, watch for finger.
Sminer, how many comments do you have left on your snark card for the month?
I’m down to 5 snark comments for the rest of the month, will be tough.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Performance enhancing?
AFAIK the primary source that DHEA is not performance-enhancing is this paper: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10613429. The authors detected a positive effect on strength, but they couldn’t say it was statistically significant. But note the study included a fairly small number of subjects (40 split into three groups), so I don’t think we can conclude that DHEA does not have an effect.
"It's just a bike race" - Frank Schleck
A view point from Burke Swindlehurst
not so much regarding Zirbel, but an alternative to the automagic destruction of a career… http://tinyurl.com/yglkggg
by Christopher See on Dec 28, 2009 1:50 PM EST reply actions
Not intending to be disrespectful to anyone but
My two penneth is it seems no surprise mostly US riders fall foul of the rules on this. In US DHEA allowed in everyday products, Canada and Europe (not looked up anywhere else -sorry!) available on prescription only I believe.
As it has a shelf life akin to cobalt 60 in drug cheat terms you have to believe a regrettable oversight/error has cost one man very dear.
The nearest analogy I can think of is Alain Baxter, a rare UK ski medalist at the Olympics. In truth he won his medal because everybody else who skied after him fell over in deteriorating conditions. He took a sinex spray that in the UK is fine and in the US contains a banned drug. Different country, different rules. Stupid not to check, but you lose the medal (the contract) as you are responsible for what you ingest.
Just saw this stuff for sale at the supermarket
right there in the supplements section amongst the Vitamin C tablets and the Flintstone chewables, and the Chondroitin, and a few rows up from the Enzyte, ahem, ahem…
It's all
Orrin Hatch’s fault.
"The only pain I got time for is the pain I put on fools who don't know what time it is." Edvald Boasson Hagen
by Chris Fontecchio on Dec 29, 2009 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
The US National Football League publishes a list of approved supplements. This is to prevent exactly the scenario we’re talking about. But even with that players still blame tainted supplements for failed drug tests. The most recent that I can think of is Shawn Merriman, who plays for the San Diego Chargers.
And stuff...
simply put and true, but isn’t this possibly a case of he did check and was doing nothing differently but something was contaminated? And then this kinda goes back to what ted was talking about that riders don’t need supplements, and probably shouldn’t with the risk of contamination.
No horn, watch for finger.
Shawne Merriman
If I remember right, he served a four-game suspension. Came back in time for the playoffs and the Pro Bowl. Sigh.
Hardly comparable to what happens to cyclists huh?
4 game suspension, what a joke
No horn, watch for finger.
Hey it's better than most NFL suspensions
which would be non-existent.
March 14, 2010: The great one returns!
Oh don't get me on a rant about the NFL.
Seeing those guys react like the cartoon version of the Tasmanian Devil after the 1st play of a game turned me off years ago. It looks like an out of step steroid adrenaline parade.
No horn, watch for finger.
Yup
Started a new debate about whether players suspended during the season for using a banned substance should be eligible for the Pro Bowl.
It was funny watching all the Charger and Padre fans turning themselves inside out trying to convince others that Merriman was clean, but that Bonds guy, well he’s just a dirty cheater. :)
Being a Chargers fan, I know that he was never clean and it was quite funny to watch him come up with excuses
even though he came back and dominated, most likely dirty, to the tune of 17 sacks the rest of the year. I would love to see the day when somebody suggests that they should have 2 year suspensions for the first positive drug test
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 30, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
made me think of Kelly Guest's case
Canadian triathlete with a positive test for nandrolone just before the 2002 Commonwealth Games, he thought perhaps that it was due to a contaminated supplement, an arbitrator even agreed that he didn’t knowingly ingest any banned substance but that wasn’t enough to get him cleared (though his 4 year ban was later reduced to 2 years, I think more because the CCES had to get in line with WADA which has a 2 year ban for a first offence).
Loved Joe Papp's perspective of Zirbel....
from of Joe Papp’s Blog
Some riders cheat. I hope most do not. But to be in Tom’s shoes right now is to be in hell and I wish him and his family the best regardless of what the truth of the matter is.
from Twisted Spoke Blog…
Twisted Spoke was quick to pass judgement on Zirbel. Sometimes the doping story is so pervasive and never-ending that we get angry and spew invective. The sport is too beautiful for such constant abuse. You can hate the crime and still feel for the man.
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