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VDS 2010: An Expanded Race Calendar?

Just a quick update on your favorite subject. Next week we will roll out some of the VDS materials. I am not sure we will finalize the rider rankings, though that's in process. But we do plan to roll out the race list. Some conceptual items you should know about:

  • It's a much, much longer list, though it's in the editing process and I'll listen to comments too. But... it's approximately twice the number of races!
  • The next rule change is that most of these races are going to be scored in a new sixth category. [Some may be cat-5, and some of last year's cat-5s could be downgraded.] In cat-6 the points would only go to the top five: 100-70-50-30-15. And 25 points for stage winners, where the cat-6 is a stage race.
  • The real rationale for this is not to revamp the VDS. It's to create a rider and teams ranking that's unique to the Podium Cafe. I have no interest in the UCI rankings, since they only cover races that the UCI gets along with. And while I have much love for all things Cycling Quotient, I take some issue with the fact that they score every race under the sun, so you wind up with, oh, say, French teams who do NOTHING on the international scene but fatten up their rankings with small-race wins all over France. I think we can do better by creating a ranking of all the races which are being contested by the top level teams and riders. And to do this, we have to recognize that wins in places like Le Samyn and Coppa Bernocchi are still wins. They're worth a few points.
  • The effect on the VDS shouldn't be too large, for one reason: you aren't going to win by cleaning up at Cat-6 races. There are too many of them, and the wins and points will be distributed all over Europe and beyond. By culling only the top-five and stages, it won't be very easy to predict what riders are even favored, save for the top sprinters. However! It will elevate the importance of picking the right bottom tier riders for your team. Leadout men and domestiques will be far less important than secondary protected riders. In this way, last year's VDS results won't be as helpful a guide as last year's CQRankings.
  • Mechanics... still up in the air. I want an application built into the site, but they ain't free. Stay tuned.

Like I said, details next week. For now, what do you think of the concept? I am pretty wedded to the idea of creating our own ranking, but hey, you can try to talk me out of it...

0 recs  |  Comment 58 comments |

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The more the merrier

As long as the races are ranked and weighted accordingly, I love the idea of more races being counted.

by PopUp Rolen on Dec 4, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

"I love the idea of more races being counted"

Me too. All season long I had guys winning races or getting on the podium in races that weren’t being counted. I’d almost go so far as to say that if guys are on the VDS list of riders, their results should count for something.

I like where you’re going with this Chris and Co.

No horn, watch for finger.

by sminer on Dec 5, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait.

None of the new additions are Spanish stage races, are they?

It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro

by majope on Dec 4, 2009 4:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

er

ahem… [shuffles feet…]

For more details, you’ve got mail.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 4, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm supposed to READ those?

Now you tell me.

It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro

by majope on Dec 4, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

Vuelta a Burgos or as it’s subtitled, “Screw Majope One More Time Stage Race”

by ursula on Dec 4, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

VDS points aren't retroactively adjusted, as far as I know

So all you have to do is pick the ones that won’t get nailed this year, right?

by dansel on Dec 4, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I tried that last year.

Didn’t work (to be fair, the rider was not Spanish).

It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro

by majope on Dec 4, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Loving the idea of more races

And getting excited about my first VDS season. Picking teams, etc ought to provide some relief from the winter doldrums.

by dansel on Dec 4, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sure, we could try to talk you out of it...

but why on earth would we want to? Loving the idea of developing our own rankings and an application.

I'm built for descending...

by omnevelnihil on Dec 4, 2009 5:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Excellent

the only real downside is that races will be scored despite the fact that they can’t really be watched outside their home area. So we’ll have ferocious arguments about a couple lines of agate on the CQRanking page. Not the same as 300 comments/hr while we watch LBL. But there are enough days where we can watch to make everyone happy, methinks.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 4, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Geological arguments are anticipted?

I wouldn’t have thought that cryptocrystalline quartz would be up for debate… but then, neither did I once think that there could be argument over granite…

by Lou... on Dec 4, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I will argue about newspaper agate. The rock talk will likely be less argumentative.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 4, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wouldn't it be great if

in the near future the highest scoring rider in VDS will actually wear a VDS leader’s jersey? Much more meaningful than the silly UCI Protour white jersey

by slowK on Dec 5, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

a couple lines of agate

It’ll be like the Dark Ages pre-internet and pre-cable!

by ursula on Dec 4, 2009 6:08 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I love it!

Would also love an application built right into the site. Let us know how we can help make that happen, OK?

I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in.

by bethie on Dec 4, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Very excited about having our own rider ranking.

Very :-)

Er, I’ll try to read the spreadsheets, boss.

by gavia on Dec 4, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not until the silly Ronde van Vlandudes or whatever is made cat 6

and the Giro del Lazio a cat 1. What you think Chris?

Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy

by Phil H. on Dec 4, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you wait till sunday evening

"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09

by benrazor on Dec 5, 2009 7:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you can run

but you can’t hide.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yay!

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Dec 4, 2009 7:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

What?

small races dominated by French teams? Never

Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy

by Phil H. on Dec 4, 2009 8:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Love the own ranking idea

If there is anything we can do to help. let us know.

Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!

by perezbike on Dec 4, 2009 10:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

thanks!

I will definitely be calling on people to look over the races next week and help fine tune the calendar. We’re doing this among the editors already, and I think we’ve trimmed the fat pretty well while otherwise expanding the list x2. But we want your input. On the rider values too.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds great, I can’t wait to hear more.

"One man's breath is another man's death."
Eddy Merckx

by titan_90 on Dec 4, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

heh

actually 102 would do it.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

bah

what you don’t think I can find 24 1-pointers?!

by rbjhan on Dec 7, 2009 5:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uuh.. Thanx.. I thought Jens picked 126 randomly..

So the 102 is 24, 2 pointers…. Good thinking..

by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 6:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think I'm cruel?

I want he to have a working team naturally-

She could pick Gasparotto for instance, then she just needs 23 more 1-pointers

by Jens on Dec 7, 2009 7:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you mean I can just listen to ursula?

oh my, wouldn’t that be easy!

by rbjhan on Dec 7, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can we have a mid - season

chance to change a couple of riders? So at least I can pretend I am doing something to get out of the bottom

Moo

by Willj on Dec 5, 2009 3:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

We watch you frolicking in alpine lakes

and riding some of the worlds most beautiful climbs on a daily basis.

You damn well better believe we’re going to do whatever we can to keep you at the bottom of the VDS standings.

by Jens on Dec 5, 2009 5:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

An interesting approach that my local table quiz takes...

Is that half way through the quiz, say if there is 20 tables taking part with 10 rounds, the quiz master will split the leader board in two after 5 rounds, making a 1st division and 2nd division. From the half way point on, the two divisions are completely separate. So, if you’re coming 11th before the half way mark, you’ll suddenly find yourself top of the 2nd division and still in with a chance of a prize. On the other hand, if you’re coming 10th before the split, you’ll now be bottom of the 1st Division and stand little chance of a prize even though you had more points than the team that was coming 11th but which is now top of the 2nd division? You get me?

It keeps things interesting for people for longer, even if they perform poorly over the first half.

http://www.irishpeloton.com/

by irishpeloton on Dec 5, 2009 6:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

hm

that’s just crazy enough to work. We will look into this…

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

adding

the Vuelta was thinking about something like this, right? Only the prize for the second tier was that they didn’t have to ride the rest of the Vuelta.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

there's a name for that

relegation, you know…..

by rbjhan on Dec 7, 2009 6:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

sweet ideas

i’m looking forward to playing, didn’t find this place in time last season.

"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09

by benrazor on Dec 5, 2009 7:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nobody listen to him telling you to listen to him!

Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy

by Phil H. on Dec 5, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

gaspa?

please….

"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09

by benrazor on Dec 5, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey- I didn't pick him.

You guys have to learn to listen better.

by ursula on Dec 6, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do as you do, not as you say then

Would you mind posting your team publicly a few days before deadline next year?

Thank you, much appreciated.

by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My €0,02
I think we can do better by creating a ranking of all the races which are being contested by the top level teams and riders.

Participation of top level team does not equal participation of top level riders. In some races none of the big names participate. Might be interesting for a PdC ranking but VDS-wise it is a bit dull.

Otoh, if you include the Ronde van het Groene Hart I’m 100% in favor!

It's a girl, and a boy!

by Lopex on Dec 5, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ronde van het Groene Hart?

does that mean I have to pick Bobbie Traksel again?

by Monty. on Dec 6, 2009 6:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, you know it!

And at one point in cost, how can you say no?

by ursula on Dec 6, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

admittedly

this is not scientific. Nor do we know who will be where in 2010. Our goal is to come up with a list of races that it feels like we should care about, but it’ll never be perfect.

"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert

by Chris... on Dec 6, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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