VDS 2010: An Expanded Race Calendar?
Just a quick update on your favorite subject. Next week we will roll out some of the VDS materials. I am not sure we will finalize the rider rankings, though that's in process. But we do plan to roll out the race list. Some conceptual items you should know about:
- It's a much, much longer list, though it's in the editing process and I'll listen to comments too. But... it's approximately twice the number of races!
- The next rule change is that most of these races are going to be scored in a new sixth category. [Some may be cat-5, and some of last year's cat-5s could be downgraded.] In cat-6 the points would only go to the top five: 100-70-50-30-15. And 25 points for stage winners, where the cat-6 is a stage race.
- The real rationale for this is not to revamp the VDS. It's to create a rider and teams ranking that's unique to the Podium Cafe. I have no interest in the UCI rankings, since they only cover races that the UCI gets along with. And while I have much love for all things Cycling Quotient, I take some issue with the fact that they score every race under the sun, so you wind up with, oh, say, French teams who do NOTHING on the international scene but fatten up their rankings with small-race wins all over France. I think we can do better by creating a ranking of all the races which are being contested by the top level teams and riders. And to do this, we have to recognize that wins in places like Le Samyn and Coppa Bernocchi are still wins. They're worth a few points.
- The effect on the VDS shouldn't be too large, for one reason: you aren't going to win by cleaning up at Cat-6 races. There are too many of them, and the wins and points will be distributed all over Europe and beyond. By culling only the top-five and stages, it won't be very easy to predict what riders are even favored, save for the top sprinters. However! It will elevate the importance of picking the right bottom tier riders for your team. Leadout men and domestiques will be far less important than secondary protected riders. In this way, last year's VDS results won't be as helpful a guide as last year's CQRankings.
- Mechanics... still up in the air. I want an application built into the site, but they ain't free. Stay tuned.
Like I said, details next week. For now, what do you think of the concept? I am pretty wedded to the idea of creating our own ranking, but hey, you can try to talk me out of it...
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58 comments
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Comments
The more the merrier
As long as the races are ranked and weighted accordingly, I love the idea of more races being counted.
by PopUp Rolen on Dec 4, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
"I love the idea of more races being counted"
Me too. All season long I had guys winning races or getting on the podium in races that weren’t being counted. I’d almost go so far as to say that if guys are on the VDS list of riders, their results should count for something.
I like where you’re going with this Chris and Co.
No horn, watch for finger.
by sminer on Dec 5, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait.
None of the new additions are Spanish stage races, are they?
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 4, 2009 4:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
er
ahem… [shuffles feet…]
For more details, you’ve got mail.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 4, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm supposed to READ those?
Now you tell me.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 4, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
Vuelta a Burgos or as it’s subtitled, “Screw Majope One More Time Stage Race”
by ursula on Dec 4, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess my best strategy will be to fill my team with Spanish riders--but only those who have never had the slightest whiff of doping suspicion about them.
Oh…wait…
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 4, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
VDS points aren't retroactively adjusted, as far as I know
So all you have to do is pick the ones that won’t get nailed this year, right?
by dansel on Dec 4, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I tried that last year.
Didn’t work (to be fair, the rider was not Spanish).
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 4, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Loving the idea of more races
And getting excited about my first VDS season. Picking teams, etc ought to provide some relief from the winter doldrums.
by dansel on Dec 4, 2009 5:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sure, we could try to talk you out of it...
but why on earth would we want to? Loving the idea of developing our own rankings and an application.
I'm built for descending...
by omnevelnihil on Dec 4, 2009 5:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent
the only real downside is that races will be scored despite the fact that they can’t really be watched outside their home area. So we’ll have ferocious arguments about a couple lines of agate on the CQRanking page. Not the same as 300 comments/hr while we watch LBL. But there are enough days where we can watch to make everyone happy, methinks.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 4, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Geological arguments are anticipted?
I wouldn’t have thought that cryptocrystalline quartz would be up for debate… but then, neither did I once think that there could be argument over granite…
by Lou... on Dec 4, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I will argue about newspaper agate. The rock talk will likely be less argumentative.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 4, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't it be great if
in the near future the highest scoring rider in VDS will actually wear a VDS leader’s jersey? Much more meaningful than the silly UCI Protour white jersey
by slowK on Dec 5, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
a couple lines of agate
It’ll be like the Dark Ages pre-internet and pre-cable!
by ursula on Dec 4, 2009 6:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love it!
Would also love an application built right into the site. Let us know how we can help make that happen, OK?
I just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in.
by bethie on Dec 4, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Very excited about having our own rider ranking.
Very :-)
Er, I’ll try to read the spreadsheets, boss.
by gavia on Dec 4, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Can you rank that silly thing in July rank in the cat 6?
Thank you
by Frinking on Dec 4, 2009 7:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Not until the silly Ronde van Vlandudes or whatever is made cat 6
and the Giro del Lazio a cat 1. What you think Chris?
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
by Phil H. on Dec 4, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I count three threads with Lazio baits in them now. This could be a long winter...
by dansel on Dec 4, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you wait till sunday evening
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
by benrazor on Dec 5, 2009 7:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you can run
but you can’t hide.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yay!
"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH
by ELVISGOAT on Dec 4, 2009 7:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Love the own ranking idea
If there is anything we can do to help. let us know.
Your bike doesn't want to crash so relax and let it roll!!!
by perezbike on Dec 4, 2009 10:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
thanks!
I will definitely be calling on people to look over the races next week and help fine tune the calendar. We’re doing this among the editors already, and I think we’ve trimmed the fat pretty well while otherwise expanding the list x2. But we want your input. On the rider values too.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds great, I can’t wait to hear more.
"One man's breath is another man's death."
Eddy Merckx
by titan_90 on Dec 4, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
bah
what you don’t think I can find 24 1-pointers?!
by rbjhan on Dec 7, 2009 5:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uuh.. Thanx.. I thought Jens picked 126 randomly..
So the 102 is 24, 2 pointers…. Good thinking..
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 6:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think I'm cruel?
I want he to have a working team naturally-
She could pick Gasparotto for instance, then she just needs 23 more 1-pointers
by Jens on Dec 7, 2009 7:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you mean I can just listen to ursula?
oh my, wouldn’t that be easy!
by rbjhan on Dec 7, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we have a mid - season
chance to change a couple of riders? So at least I can pretend I am doing something to get out of the bottom
Moo
by Willj on Dec 5, 2009 3:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
We watch you frolicking in alpine lakes
and riding some of the worlds most beautiful climbs on a daily basis.
You damn well better believe we’re going to do whatever we can to keep you at the bottom of the VDS standings.
by Jens on Dec 5, 2009 5:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An interesting approach that my local table quiz takes...
Is that half way through the quiz, say if there is 20 tables taking part with 10 rounds, the quiz master will split the leader board in two after 5 rounds, making a 1st division and 2nd division. From the half way point on, the two divisions are completely separate. So, if you’re coming 11th before the half way mark, you’ll suddenly find yourself top of the 2nd division and still in with a chance of a prize. On the other hand, if you’re coming 10th before the split, you’ll now be bottom of the 1st Division and stand little chance of a prize even though you had more points than the team that was coming 11th but which is now top of the 2nd division? You get me?
It keeps things interesting for people for longer, even if they perform poorly over the first half.
http://www.irishpeloton.com/
by irishpeloton on Dec 5, 2009 6:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
hm
that’s just crazy enough to work. We will look into this…
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
adding
the Vuelta was thinking about something like this, right? Only the prize for the second tier was that they didn’t have to ride the rest of the Vuelta.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 5, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there's a name for that
relegation, you know…..
by rbjhan on Dec 7, 2009 6:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sweet ideas
i’m looking forward to playing, didn’t find this place in time last season.
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
by benrazor on Dec 5, 2009 7:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nobody listen to him telling you to listen to him!
Look, it's a bird...no, it's a plane....oh never mind it's just fucking balloon boy
by Phil H. on Dec 5, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gaspa?
please….
"well...you live in england so: you love the rain. loves the queen. hates cycling. based on mr bean had a tremendous amount of humour. all ride in a mini cooper. all getting drunk before the age of 12. getting drunk at least 3 times a day."- frinking, 7/9/09
by benrazor on Dec 5, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey- I didn't pick him.
You guys have to learn to listen better.
by ursula on Dec 6, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do as you do, not as you say then
Would you mind posting your team publicly a few days before deadline next year?
Thank you, much appreciated.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My €0,02
I think we can do better by creating a ranking of all the races which are being contested by the top level teams and riders.
Participation of top level team does not equal participation of top level riders. In some races none of the big names participate. Might be interesting for a PdC ranking but VDS-wise it is a bit dull.
Otoh, if you include the Ronde van het Groene Hart I’m 100% in favor!
It's a girl, and a boy!
by Lopex on Dec 5, 2009 2:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ronde van het Groene Hart?
does that mean I have to pick Bobbie Traksel again?
by Monty. on Dec 6, 2009 6:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, you know it!
And at one point in cost, how can you say no?
by ursula on Dec 6, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
admittedly
this is not scientific. Nor do we know who will be where in 2010. Our goal is to come up with a list of races that it feels like we should care about, but it’ll never be perfect.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 6, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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