Do Team Sky really deserve a Tour place?
In this year’s Tour de France twenty teams took part. Seventeen of those teams were part of the Pro Tour. There were in fact eighteen Pro Tour teams this year, but the Tour organisers decided not to include the Fuji-Servetto team, this in no small part due to the doping scandal created by Ricardo Ricco and Leonardo Piepoli at the 2008 Tour under the team’s former guise of Saunier Duval. This left three spots open for the powers that be to invite to the world’s biggest race. Of these three wildcard places, one went to the Cervelo Test Team, the team of returning Tour champion Carlos Sastre, this seemed an obvious choice. The second wild card was awarded to the Dutch team Skil-Shimano seemingly because of their aggressive showing in the Spring races. The third berth, as is the ASO’s wont, was given to a French team, namely Agritubel who were invited for the fourth year in a row.
Next year however the situation will be different. The Fuji-Servetto team (now Footon-Servetto), having been ignored this year, will expect to back on the Tour scene next year. The UCI having set a precedent by excluding the controversial Astana team in 2008 but welcoming them back this year. There are also two new teams, Team Sky and Radio Shack hoping for an invite. Not returning though will be the Pro Tour teams Crédit Agricole and Gerolsteiner, and the perennial wild cards Agritubel who have all folded. This leaves 16 teams who were part of the Pro Tour when the UCI agreed that all of them would be invited to take part in the Tour de France for the next four years. These teams are:
Ag2r La Mondiale
Astana
Bbox Bouygues Telecom
Caisse d’Epargne
Cofidis
Euskaltel-Euskadi
Francaise des Jeux
Columbia HTC
Lampre
Liquigas
Omega-Pharma-Lotto
Quick·Step
Rabobank
Footon-Servetto
Team Saxo Bank
Team Milram
Assuming the number of teams participating in the Tour next year remains at twenty, this now leaves four wild card places to be filled. Even though the amount of wild card places is double that of most years gone by, I don’t share the unflappable confidence that most people have about the participation of Team Sky. The British publications Pro Cycling and Cycle Sport constantly write about Team Sky as if their place in the Tour next year is assured. If they had signed either of the two top British riders Bradley Wiggins or Mark Cavendish, it probably would be, but they didn’t. They are a new team with some decent established riders and some great up and coming talent but do they really deserve a place at the Tour de France?
The other teams hoping for an invite next summer will be Team Radio Shack, BMC Racing, Garmin, Katusha, Skil Shimano, Vacansoleil, Xacobeo-Galicia, Besson-Sojasun and Cervelo. Of these teams, I feel that plenty of them have more reason to be invited to the Tour next year than Team Sky. Below is a table detailing the amount of riders on each team who have previously taken part in the Tour de France, the amount of Grand Départs that these riders between them have been a part of and the amount of Tour stage wins they’ve amassed over the years:
Details of the number of Tour starts made by riders, the number of separate riders who have previously taken part in the Tour, and the number of stage wins amassed by riders for each of the teams hoping to gain a wild card entry to the 2010 Tour de France. Next years rider rosters were used to create the table.
Apart from the previous Tour performances of the teams, the political issues must also be looked at, as the reasons for gaining an invite from the ASO are not always sporting. Obviously Radio Shack will expect an invite with Lance Armstrong part of their setup. Armstrong vs Contador was the story of this year’s Tour and the Tour organisers will be hoping for the same media interest as Round 2 of the battle takes place. Radio Shack also have two riders who’ve stood on the Tour podium, Andreas Kloden and Levi Leipheimer. There is Cervelo who have Carlos Sastre, also a former Tour winner. Cervelo can also boast Thor Hushovd, twice winner of the Tour’s green jersey and one half of the other main story of last year’s Tour, Hushovd vs Cavendish in the points competition.
Then there are the two current Pro Tour squads but who weren’t part of the original sixteen team invite agreement, Garmin and Katusha. Garmin harbour two riders who have finished 4th in the race in Bradley Wiggins and Christian Vande Velde. They also have two former Prologue winners and yellow jersey wearers Davids Millar and Zabriskie. Katusha have former yellow jersey wearer Kim Kirchen, three time green jersey winner Robbie McEwen in what could be his final Tour and they also have double stage winners Filippo Pozzato and Sergei Ivanov. It’s hard not to see these four teams getting invites to the Tour, with the riders they possess and the past Tour experience contained therein and from an Irish point of view it would be ideal if Cervelo and Garmin were present. That would mean that potentially, the top three Irish professionals, Roche, Deignan and Martin could all be on the start line next July.
Not to be forgotten though is the fact that BMC Racing hold a winning hand in the shape of Cadel Evans, current World Champion. The only previous time that the Rainbow Jersey has been purposely shunned from the Tour is in 2003 when the organisers refused to invite the Domina Vacanze team of Mario Cipollini. But, the Lion King had for years gone out of his way to annoy race organisers by wearing outrageous racing gear and had never previously finished a Tour de France. Cadel Evans is a different story. He’s a very professional rider who has twice finished 2nd in the Tour. As such it is very difficult to imagine ASO leaving Evans and therefore BMC out in the cold. They also have former World Champion Alessandro Ballan and former stage winner and yellow jersey wearer George Hincapie. Of the four tems mentioned above, I feel that despite their glut of strong riders, the place of Katusha seems the most vulnerable should BMC be invited.
There is however a lifeline which has recently been cast out by the Tour organisers which is that they are considering increasing the number of teams to 22, which may or may not result in rider numbers being reduced from nine to eight per team. This moves the number of wild card places for aspiring teams up from four to six. So with, as I see it, Radio Shack, Cervelo, Garmin, Katusha and BMC Racing taking the first five wild card places, this leaves Skil-Shimano, Vacansoleil, Xacobeo-Galicia, Besson Sojasun and Team Sky.
Firstly, I think that Xacobeo-Galicia will not be considered. They are a modest Spanish setup who tend to perform only in stage races in their home country. They also have no riders who have previously taken part in the Tour de France. Then there is Skil-Shimano who were granted one of the coveted wild card places last year. This by no means guarantess them a place this time around though. One of the other interesting aspects of the Tour last year was the daily struggle of ‘the worst climber ever‘ Kenny van Hummel. He endeared himself to plenty of fans and many feel that he deserves an inclusion in next year’s race. But I really don’t feel that is a valid reason for a team’s inclusion and I think Skil-Shimano will be overlooked next year.
That leaves Vacansoleil, Besson-Sojasun and Team Sky for the last remaining place. Team Sky’s trump cards that they’ll be relying on for that precious invite will be former Tour stage winners Simon Gerrans, Kurt Asle-Arvesen, Juan Antonio Flecha and Sylvain Calzati. They can also claim to have one of the most exciting up and coming talents in the world of cycling Edvald Boasson Hagen who will be hoping to take part in his first Tour de France. Vacansoleil on the other hand don’t have as strong a squad as Team Sky. However, they have signed France’s favourite brothers Romain and Brice Feillu who between them have won a stage and worn the yellow jersey. Also, what must not be forgotten is the fact that they are a Dutch squad. The Tour de France will be starting in the Netherlands in 2010 and Rotterdam would have paid plenty of money for this honour. It is entirely possible that ASO have made an agreement with the Dutch to extend a wild card invitation to at least one Dutch team. With the disappearance of Agritubel, the only viable French team left to offer a wild card to is Besson-Sojasun (soon to be renamed Saur-Sojasun). The ASO have a history of issuing wild cards to French teams, after all it is the Tour de France. Besson Sojasun have French favourites Jimmy Casper, Jonathan Hivert and Sébastien Joly on board. The prospect of one of the bigger cycling teams being bumped in favour of this French squad is very real and should not be ignored. Also, inviting Radio Shack, Garmin and BMC while leaving out Besson-Sojasun would lead to the prospect of there being the same amount of USA based teams in the Tour as French based teams, not something that ASO would take kindly to.
In a recent interview with Simon Gerrans in the January 2010 issue of Cycle Sport, he states that the reason he left Cervelo for Team Sky is that he was not picked for the Tour team. He didn’t fit the mold of either a domestique for Sastre in the mountains or a lead out man for Hushovd in the sprints so he was excluded. Gerrans may have moved to a team in which he will assume a leader’s role, but if I were him I wouldn’t be booking his flight to Rotterdam just yet. It may take a stellar performance by Team Sky’s riders in the Spring to tip the wild card scales in their direction. But with the undoubted talent of Edvald Boassan Hagen on board, they just might have the rider capable of winning enough races to get them to France in July.
Photo by Bryn Lennon, Getty Images Sport
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162 comments
Comments
Ta for the write-up
I think Lampre or Footon might get bumped, despite the agreement. (One small thing: Vacansoleil, not Vaconsoleil.)
by tedvdw on Dec 6, 2009 9:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the agreement they all signed up to is pretty water-tight
Fuji won a few appeals at CAS last year to get into MSR and the Giro, and maybe some others that I don’t remember. It would need a fresh drug bust to give reason to bounce them in 2010.
by Monty. on Dec 6, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Footon-Servetto is now Footon-Servetto-Fuji…
by rowyco on Dec 7, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've given up following that bizzare sponsorship track
I just refer to them as “that lonely spanish team” to keep things easy
by dansel on Dec 7, 2009 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Duly noted. Thanks!
Yeah, I couldn’t quite find all the details of the agreement that the Pro Tour teams came to in September 2008. But surely the fact that they didn’t involve Fuji-Servetto last year means they have a scope for picking and choosing. And you also mentioned Lampre who I neglected to write have problems of their own, which may result in not being granted Pro Tour status for next year. But I’m not sure how this will affect their participation in the Tour next year. After all, Bbox and Cofidis have been bumped from the Pro Tour and they seem to be guaranteed participation in 2010.
http://www.irishpeloton.com/
by irishpeloton on Dec 6, 2009 9:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The only reason I took notice of Footon (Fuji) the last season
Was because of Kessiakoff. He has left the team, as well as the other interesting riders. Next year the team will be even more boring, and I will be very surprised if the team starts the Tour.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 6, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too. They're prime candidates for the heave ho.
Now that Intxausti has seen sense and become an Euskie, I couldn’t care less! ;-)
by Albertina on Dec 6, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine them in over say, Vacansoleil
if the ASO has leeway in the matter. Of course, this may be because I’d like to see Vacansoleil in the Tour, whereas even the name Footon makes me yawn. But really, you could pick a name out of a hat and they’d be more interesting than Footon.
by Krtek on Dec 6, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That ASO/18-teams-deal from last year
(from which 16 teams remain) puts a spanner in the works. Both Footon & Lampre are part of the deal.
by tedvdw on Dec 6, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But I find that when I pay too much attention to the “rules” in these sort of situations, it tends to end with my eyes glazing over and something else happening in the end anyway. So I guess I’m speaking more from an entertainment value/ merit point of view.
by Krtek on Dec 6, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Previously Prudhomme
was making lots of hints that 22 teams would be invited …. not sure if this has been clarified yet by the TdF organizers
Moo
by Willj on Dec 6, 2009 10:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
yes, i've seen these hints also
and i think it might be how the aso resolves this issue.
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One team for each of Tiger Wood's mistresses
Then everybody will be able to race.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Dec 6, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see Sky's main draw in two categories
First, EBH. I think he’s got the skillset to challenge for the green jersey a-la Jalabert, and it should be a good battle between him, Hushovd, Cavendish, and (hopefully) Farrar.
Second, with guys like Gerrans, etc Sky has a lot of strong stage-chasers. Good riders, more likely to take a stage than some of their breakaway companions.
I think the first point is actually a stronger draw as it would be more of a battle. However, if it comes down to, say, Sky v. BMC, I think BMC wins the invite.
by dansel on Dec 6, 2009 11:34 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If it were me
I would leak to the press that EBH is going all out for green, and by contesting a variety of stages. It would help if Sky gave people a reason to care besides “hey, we’re British.”
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 6, 2009 11:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Adding
An EBH assault on the sprinters would get me excited enough to give in to comcast.
"Harder! Better! Faster! Stronger!" Philippe Gilbert
by Chris... on Dec 6, 2009 11:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
That would be so cool.
Dear Santa—give me an EBH assault on the green and you can keep the Color Magic Barbie. This year, anyway. Love, M.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rofl
Really, you’d give up Color Magic Barbie?!
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not permanently!
But if I’ve been waiting since 1967, I guess I can go another year.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That seems reasonable.
Good things come to those who wait and all ;-)
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O/T – have you got DW-Dreamland covered?
by andrewp on Dec 6, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My kid's been watching it--I have yet to catch up.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're good! :)
For a slow day in the school holidays – do make one of these (warning – right click needed)
by andrewp on Dec 6, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, that's the best way to ensure an invite
They have to make a point of doing something substantial than chasing stages for this year, because Prudhomme might as well choose a French team to do that.
That said, I think SKY’s overall goals, etc are something Prudhomme wants to acknowledge, but an invite can’t be based entirely on that.
by dansel on Dec 6, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BMC is almost certainly in
They won’t pass over Evans – he is the World Champion, has finished on the Tour podium, and has a rep for clean racing.
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would suck to be Lovkvist if Sky doesn't get an invite
considering one of his chief reasons for leaving Columbia was that he wasn’t included in the Tour team.
I’m hoping for a 22-team Tour. The more, the merrier. Plus, they’ve done it before in recent years without dropping the number of riders per team—there were 22 teams in the 2003 Tour.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it' a huge problem
he’s not that tour-centered. The talk of the Tour snub was more about what the snub said of his stature in the team. Of course he aims for the Tour but I don’t think the decision was based solely on Tour-riding.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you have the advantage of being able to read Lovkvist's quotes in his original language.
But in English it sure sounds like it affected his decision:
“I was sitting at home during the Tour because I did not fit completely into the train to Mark Cavendish," Sweden’s Lövkvist told nettevisen.no. "The reason is that the team was entirely built up around him. Then I have to see me around where conditions are best for me. I understand that Columbia chose to focus on the world’s best sprints, but that does not mean there are no other solutions for me.”
(And I didn’t say sole reason, I said one of the chief reasons.)
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He would definitely be grumpy
but I don’t think it would necessarily make him doubt his decision.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like we're in agreement, then.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sortainly.
We can agree that you can wait another year for Color Magic Barbie
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pfft.
They’ve dropped about 40% in price since the economy tanked. Another year of this, and Santa will be throwing them at me.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just want the yellow submarine thermos
I lost in elementary school.
It’s not much to ask, is it?
by R Mc on Dec 6, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two words:
E.
Bay.
(Warning: I might get my Color Magic cheaper.)
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely, don't see why 9 is cast in stone
but I recall reading a Prudhomme comment that the total number of riders isn’t the issue. One more team is one more to make place for in the caravan one more to make arrangements for etc.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would be interesting.
Having one less rider over a 3-week race would mean all the other domestiques would have to work that much harder, and/or the protected riders would be less protected. Managing the team resources would be more of a challenge. Might change the whole shape of the race.
And yes, most teams lose riders over the course of the Tour, but that’s not the same as being short from the start.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I do think 8 riders teams might set up some interesting dynamics. I tend to think they will go 22, though, and keep it at nine.
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ASO, please announce 8-man teams and no radios at the 2010 Tour
Twitter will collapse under the weight of a massive shitstorm of complaints within 2 hours.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh please let that happen
the twitter collapse that is…
"It looks like talking, but it’s just words that comes out"
~ Andy Schleck
by Hons on Dec 7, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The UCI has a maximum rider limit for races
I remember it being 200 the last (for last read only) time I looked at the regulations. That works out as 22 9-man teams or 25 8-man ones. Maybe they should ban team buses and limit them to a Hymer for the riders and a Luton van for the mechanics.
by Monty. on Dec 6, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah just checked the rules there
“2.2.002 The number of riders participating in a road race shall be limited to 200.”
http://www.irishpeloton.com/
by irishpeloton on Dec 6, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yep 8 is good idea.
I know smaller Tours have less riders.
Tour de l’Ain had 6 per team I believe (although Vino carried an extra head on his Jersey)
Moo
by Willj on Dec 6, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to be annoying editorchick
But do we have rights to use that photo?
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 12:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please remove it
I’m getting a “Big Brother is watching you” feeling.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 6, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm a dumbass
I didn’t see the credit at the bottom of the post. I really need to wake up before reading this thing.
d’oh.
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Adding
Dear Santa Claus,
Please bring us CSS for photo credits.
XOXO,
gav.
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just as a reference point I do not see a/the credit on Safari Mac OSX etc..
by Fred Marx on Dec 6, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do
bottom of the article, though, not directly below the pic: “Photo by Bryn Lennon, Getty Images Sport”
by tedvdw on Dec 6, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, exactly
That’s actually why I missed it. But we don’t have an easy way to put them right with the photos, which is why I’m dreaming of CSS. Wordpress has built-in ways to handle these things. But eh, no bigs.
I just feel like a dumbass for missing it, especially when Chris put it in there. We editors, so organized. ;-)
by gavia on Dec 6, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
8 man teams
If they go there, they have room for 25 teams (200 riders). They will keep 9 man teams and 22 teams (198 riders):
Teams will be as follows:
Ag2r La Mondiale
Astana
Bbox Bouygues Telecom
Caisse d’Epargne
Cofidis
Euskaltel-Euskadi
Francaise des Jeux
Columbia HTC
Lampre
Liquigas
Omega-Pharma-Lotto
Quick·Step
Rabobank
Team Saxo Bank
Team Milram
Garmin
Sky
Katusha
BMC
Radio Shack
Suar Sojasun
Vacansoleil
Footon gets snubbed unless Euskatel gets excluded for Astarloza’s positive.
by Crazy D on Dec 6, 2009 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ah, an excellent point
I had forgotten about Astarloza’a positive. Could give ASO the excuse they need to exclude one of the 16 teams in the 2008 agreement and make their wild card decisions easier.
http://www.irishpeloton.com/
by irishpeloton on Dec 6, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've said it before
there is absolutely no chance whatsoever under any circumstances that they leave Euskaltel out in a year that is a tribute to the Pyrenées. They are not monumentally stupid.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
there is absolutely no chance whatsoever under any circumstances that they leave Euskaltel out in a year that is a tribute to the Pyrenées. They are not monumentally stupid.
I see your point, and it would be a surprise if the ASO left out Euskaltel despite the doping issue. However, the same could have been said about the Astana team in 2008. They were omitted even with the reigning Tour champion in their ranks. I wouldn’t put anything past ASO.
http://www.irishpeloton.com/
by irishpeloton on Dec 6, 2009 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If they ommited Euskatel, then they could say adios to running any stages through the Basque Pyrennes in the near future
And that would just be a headache for everybody.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 6, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But the Kazakhs don't have a history
of setting off bombs near the Tour route.
by Monty. on Dec 7, 2009 3:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Basque fans might be a little... Unhappy... don't you think?
Unhappy enough to write a strongly worded letter, perhaps…
Possibly they might deliver the letter, personally, when the tour swings by their stomping ground ;-)
by Lou... on Dec 7, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yes
Perhaps. But we might want to do a Venn diagram out of it first.
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 7, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Getting rid of Euskaltel is a tricky one
Astarloza’s positive counts against them and frankly they’ve been disappointing for years in the Tour (sorry Albertina…)
But next year is meant to be a celebration of 100 years of the Pyrenees in the Tour which’d be strange – and possibly troublesome – without a Basque sporting presence
by thebongolian on Dec 6, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think France might well be looking at a secession movement
If they leave out the Euskie boys.
by dansel on Dec 6, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basque region goes into France a bit
Not as much as into Spain, but the two basque regions might well try to form their own country. And pour more money than ever into orange flags and t-shirts.
by dansel on Dec 6, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There would probably be some pretty creative protests
Endless fields of crop art featuring Christian Prudhomme and La Guillotine. A reign of terror, with elderly grannies quietly standing by the road knitting orange scarves.
by LurkerMcLurkerson on Dec 6, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
point of order... astarloza's positive was out-of-competition, not during the tdf
"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind
by umwolverine on Dec 7, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not insignificant
since the ASO is mainly concerned with what happens in front of “their” cameras.
by Jens on Dec 7, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
While the thought of "everyone" getting to ride the Tour appeals to us
having the power to include/exclude teams is a power the ASO cherishes. It gives them tremendous leverage.
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 3:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this should be in the Wiggins thread
(I’m not sure it deserves one of its own), but various sources are reporting that Sky have named Ben Swift as part of their team that will be riding in the Tour Down Under. The BBC included a quote from Brailsford:
“The situation regarding Ben is in the process of being resolved,”
“As a team we haven’t actually been directly involved with regards his current team – that’s him acting independently with his agent.
“Were he to become a free agent – as we were led to believe – then in our pre-planning we have foreseen a situation where Ben, were he a Team Sky rider, would compete in the Tour Down Under.
“However, we respect the fact that there is an element of speculation.”
Nnow, is Sky or Katyusha the best place to watch the Tour from?
by Monty. on Dec 6, 2009 5:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That statement just hurts my head
Way too many hypotheticals. Lets stick to one at a time, can we please?
And Swifty, I don’t care where you go. Just go NOW.
by dansel on Dec 6, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Were he to go to Sky – as we were led to believe – then in his pre-planning he has foreseen a situation where he, were he a Team Sky rider, would compete in the Tour. Possibly
by Jens on Dec 6, 2009 5:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Have to admire Brailsford's mastery of the subjunctive.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 6, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
(where use of the subjunctive is minor plot point)
by tedvdw on Dec 7, 2009 7:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that film!
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of very good interesting points
but now I am more confused than before I started.
This seems like the impossible task.
Maybe the California and the Giro will decide who goes ?
I waited a half an hour to give my two toddlers breakfast until I had my Eneco tour coverage sorted, then made sure I got them fed before the sprint. --- Bought With Blood. ..... Hmmm, my kinda people. If only they could explain to my wife why my bike belongs in the house and not the garage. --- Thevaro
by thevaro on Dec 7, 2009 12:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
But you can't really do that to teams, by having qualifying races, because even though they might not be getting results
come Tour time they are ready. Euskatel is not going to be at either race so you would have to find different races and even then you couldn’t say no to them based on lack of results because if their leader isn’t peaking until Tour time, he is not going to be showing up at most stage races on top form.
It is more like who can be the biggest suck up.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 7, 2009 3:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They do do that though
Teams have been peaking for (ASO run) Quatar and Paris-Nice to gain favour with the ASO in the past. Latest example Slipstream in 2008..
by Jens on Dec 7, 2009 4:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and cervelo last year
certainly with Qatar
by thebongolian on Dec 7, 2009 6:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haven't
we been here before ?
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/11/1/1110197/tour-de-france-2010-who-gets-the
by lucybears on Dec 7, 2009 6:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
In some ways, but it's the off season
there’s time to rehash.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 6:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And there is still room for 2 contests!!
The thread of the year and for some self-promotion a recap and poll for the youngster of the year
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you see yourself as 'youngster of the year'? Hmmm
I’ve been having a long think about great threads and how I’d vote. I’m thinking there should be a live thread and fanpost/shot categories.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha.. I defintely didn't it!
But I think I misse my own point..
1. Thread of the year
2. Youngster of the CYCLING year 2009 ;)
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Never mind... Will there be any point voting on cycling youngster of the year?
I think it will be EBH in a landslide… The thread thing has stiffer competition although i know what I’m voting for, if it happens.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Taaraeme? That guy was a beast this year.
Rui Costa won Duinkerken! and Ciolek a stage in the Vuelta.. Ok EBH is probably going to take it but it isn’t a reall non-contenders competition.
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And what a lovely pic of Taaraeme. Just worth a vote for his attempt in the Vuelta

by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a great photo
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was that after the finish?
I can’t remember him stopping ( but almost, though)
by Jens on Dec 7, 2009 7:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would explain the 6 minutes time lose in less than 5 km
But I think it was after the finish. Not sure
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And the other..
There have been Gavia’s pics, Barbie first episode etc.. Always nice to recap them ;)
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we also need a Rider Quote of the Year poll.
If nobody has one planned, maybe I’ll see about starting one sometime later this week.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 7, 2009 7:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can remember that?
Merckx?! Who’s that.. Sorry.. I’m not that interested in cyclinghistory..
Probably not totally correct quoted but it came close
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great one, but I think there'll be serious competition.
(And it was Sean Kelly.)
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 7, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe there needs to be an editor's thread of the year
and one from the rest. Sort of professionals and amateur categories. Photo of the year from Podium members?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A what? Editor? On which something I have to give my vote..
I know one has one deleted a pic I had posted.. But for the rest? Think voting on “persons” isn’t a really good idea.. Unnecessary and could be go wrong :)
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not people, but editors threads...
Not about paople, i agree.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Aah.. Ok.. Sorry..
But what’s the difference.. Fun vs quasi-fun
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Quite a bit I think, but that's just me maybe.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha.. There is.. But I wouldn't make the cut..
I recognise the editor threads are far more cycling orientated where the dieable people threads are more.. cyclingrelated..
Still why make the cut?
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure what 'dieable' people are :(
But what you say after that is why I think there should be different categories. Lots of people have informed and entertained us in a variety of ways.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
die-able.. mortals.. followers... yes nodders the eeh do I have to continue ;)
But I dare you tu put up one ;) haha
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So what am I being dared to put up?
I thought maybe to take out any worry that it was about people not topics, it could be archived and non archived threads…
I’m happy to put up a post, but I really would prefer not to offend or pre-empt someone. In my head there are about four categories. It’s almost as if we need to have a poll before we even begin. But perhaps I’m making things unnecessarily complex.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PS. 'die-able' is a great word.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was the first one popped in my head..
And I’m glad we’re back in march.. Echolons forming ;)
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your head is eeh.. great or large..
I like the less complex one.. because it’s the less complex.. And because a best thread isn’t nescesary: funny, informative, real, the truth, the most comment, the less comment, cycling related. If you keep that in mind you can have hunderd categories. But what did you have in mind?
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 8:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Best thread?
The thread of the Great Geological War, back during the Tour, must surely score highly…
by Lou... on Dec 7, 2009 8:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My fave live thread was post-Mendrisio
but there was a very bizarre one during the Tour that invoved a blog warrior on speed…
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are categories up in top left hand corner of the home page
that could work. Let me think though…
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There are 10 categories..
Ok other reasoning so one thread of the year!
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Although the Editors Vs Die-able people works for me too (:
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok Three then I think:
1. editors
2. die-ables
3. live (which has nothing to do with author of thread and everything to do with discussion ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That took is just 1.30 hours!
Now we have to find nominations..
Maybe that better can be done by mail?
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or a thread like the ones Chris did for
race moment of the year, rider of the year etc. The discussion itself was interesting.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Chris reads this and says 'go for it'
I’m happy to do it. But it’s one am here, so tomorrow…
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Scary how smart we are no?
You realise it’s a consensus between the two of us. It may bear no resemblance to what actually happens ;)
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Without wishing to start a polemica...
… surely the quote of the year was “Great talent, still a lot to learn”.
Not saying it was correct, just saying that virtually the entire story of 2009 (in GT terms at least) got encapsulated in 7 words: the comback, intrigue, team tension, GC rivalry, agendas, contracts, new teams, etc etc.
by addict on Dec 7, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please! Save it for the nomination thread.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 7, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry - hadnt realised there was one...
… I find it difficult enough to hit reply, let alone find an entirely different thread.
My bad :(
by addict on Dec 7, 2009 7:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not your bad. there's no thread yet and there may not be
… unless there’s a timetable somewhere? What are we saving for?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The thread hasn't been started yet
I just don’t want everybody to talk out the subject before it is.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 7, 2009 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this like the race the other night where we couldn't talk about the winner?
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 7:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't remind me about that!
I have been trying to be Very Good here, and resist the temptation to make fun of someone…
Actually, I think that we have all been Really Remarkably Good about that one, LOL.
by Lou... on Dec 7, 2009 8:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Has stuey won a race you couldn't speak of? I'm lost
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 8:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Towards the end
of the Het Zilvermeer thread. Majope had made a Special Point of not naming the winner…
by Lou... on Dec 7, 2009 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And someone who shall remain nameless spilled the beans?
I wanted to talk about it right then. It was a live thread :(
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's been ages since we've moved so far to the right..
I hate it when you’re very good.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, don't worry - it's unlikely to last ;-)
Every now and then I suffer from a strange compulsion to try to be Nice. Last time it happened, I hadn’t even finished writing the post before I gave up…
by Lou... on Dec 7, 2009 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but you're Very Good at couching things
that are not so nice in humourous observations. Me, I’m as subtle as a brick.
"How strange it was to see men doing something beautiful. Something pointless and elegant." Tim Winton, 'Breath'
by Seahorse on Dec 7, 2009 8:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I emailed the other editors to see if one of them already had a quote thread planned.
If not, I’ll open a nomination thread later today.
It was just a long race--Edvald Boasson Hagen, on the Giro
by majope on Dec 7, 2009 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oops.. Wrong/Right link
I was supposed to link to these thread
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
8 man teams...
… I’m wondering if that would seriously hurt teams going for two different jerseys. I was thinking about Cervelo with Carlos and Thor particularly – but then it occurred to me that Thor seems to get (or need) very little support anyway.
Any others it would give a problem to?
by addict on Dec 7, 2009 7:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Columbia...
Cavendish needs to have 8 guys towing him around France, not 7.
by Vlaanderen90 on Dec 7, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good one - if mcEwan still has his legs
Although, I guess he is the arch poacher anyway…
Thinking about it further, even Sky could have a prob: you have EBH chasing green and Tommy L chatting about the GC. Plus Gerrans is a stage chaser and no-one’s domestique. Not an easy bunch for Brailsford to manage if they do get in.
Tricky and fascinating. Could we end up in the situation where Astana and LanceShack are actually the most unified teams? (Stretching it slightly, even Saxo have a distraction with Spartacus’s tt-ing and the almost inevitable yellow defence in the first week)
by addict on Dec 7, 2009 7:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Although it are 2-B players. McEwen and Kirchen
And is EBH going to contest the sprints? I dunno. I think he will pic his stages and focus.. Compete with Hushovd and Cav.. First see.. than believe
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Too true
I’ve not seen enough of EBH – but I am surprised at all this chat about his sprint capabilities. Winning sprints out of a breakaway is one thing – winning against Cav and his train is a whole different kettle of fish.
Is he that fast? (I ask for information – I simply am not well enough informed!)
by addict on Dec 7, 2009 7:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well.. I think he isn't..
It’s, at my opinion, a Boonen in his ‘bad’ years. Going to be dominant in the classics who are not too hilly and can win sprints in minor stage races, with the help of golden man Renshaw. Only Boonen and I think EBH can not compete with the real sprinters. He will lose most of the time to the sprintertrains but if the sprint is heavy he is a favorite..
I hope you get it :)
by Frinking on Dec 7, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lövkvist
optimistic about Tour place for team, ready for leadership role
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/2443/Lovkvist-optimistic-about-Tour-place-for-team-ready-for-leadership-role.aspx
by lucybears on Dec 8, 2009 10:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps when the team (or whoever it was) have learned to spell his name
Staring at the swim team gets you killed by a gang of dancing ninja men who know how to twirl.
by TheFigurehead on Dec 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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