Levi - We Sincerely Apologize...
by samboo on Feb 16, 2009 6:03 PM EST
46 comments
We're sorry we called you boring
We're sorry we called you a wheelsucker
We're sorry we called you short
We're sorry we called you bald
We're sorry we said you couldn't grow facial hair
We're sorry we said you showed no emotion
We're sorry we said you couldn't be a team leader
We're sorry we said you would only carry water for Lance
Please add your apologies. Maybe we can print these all out and order Levi a big FTD bouquet.
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He's still short.
But those are powerful little legs.
Google is my domestique.
by majope on Feb 16, 2009 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he's still bald, too
but besides those two…
Where the #@&$ is my Time?
by Jimbo... on Feb 16, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely
I am sorry for saying he can only carry water for Lance. He can carry it for Bert too. Snap!
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Feb 16, 2009 6:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
he was soooooo happy today!
that was fun to see. :)
by cg. on Feb 16, 2009 7:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pfft, I'm not apologizing for anything until he does this in the really big races
ahem…Tour…ahem. Nothing against the ToC but this race is 100 time more improtant to Levi then it is for any of the other contenders, this is Levi’s 2nd most important race on the calender behind the Tour while the other favs are still working on their form. He is always in far better shape then anyone else at this time of year and one expects him to do something like this, although today was very impressive. I have to wait until later, when he’s facing the best in the world at their best up some real big mountains, before I start to feel differently about his way of riding….Oh and he’s still short and bald :)
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 7:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
well, I predict this is it
for him. His big race of the year. He’ll be a spectacular lieutenant at the Giro and Le Tour, but this one is his time in the sun (so to speak). He is absolutely capable of winning either one of those races, but he won’t even try. It’s not in the Agreement. (And never does seem to be, for him.)
by Sui Juris on Feb 16, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why I wont apologize to him
he can keep winning ToC’s just like Gilbert can keep winning Het Volk’s but if he doesn’t start riding differently in the Gt’s then it all doesn’t matter how he rides this week, just like Het Volk wins wont matter for Gilbert if he can’t win Flanders. Your legacy is decided by the way you did on the sports biggest stage, and that’s why Levi will still be seen as a wheel sucker and an incapable team leader if he does what he always has in the Gt’s.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Incapable?
When has Levi had the chance to lead a team since Gerol or Rabo? At what point have his leadership skills ever come up short? I guess two GT podiums last year (while working for Bert) and a worlds TT podium show his failure to perform on the biggest stage.
by boxnard on Feb 16, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well thanks for making my point for me
his ONE GT podium last year(the others came in 07, and 01) were while he wasn’t team leader, actually he was leader in 07 and lost his leader role to Bert. The times he has been leader he has often not performed as well as he should. And a TT podium? I don’t believe national teams have TT leaders. I am not saying he isn’t a great rider, I’m saying he hasn’t had the ambition to be the leader in the GT’s recently(he could have won the Vuelta if he had been leader) and when he was leader of teams he didn’t ride as well as he has working for others.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm having trouble
seeing how that comes close to making your point. Hasn’t had the ambition to be the leader? His performance at the Vuelta shows that he has all the ambition to be the leader but is simple not allowed to be. Hell, he pretty much did lead the team FOR Berto and they still won.I do like that you made that point for me though, considering you just cited it. As a matter of fact, pretty much every race I follow him in he has the ambition to be the leader, but is relegated to other roles by the team. Since Levi’s late development into a legitimate contender, where he deserves full leadership of a team, he has displayed no lack of desire or determination in ambition or leadership. Give him the full reigns of any team that has won a GT in the past few years and he would have taken any of them.
Lacks panache, explosiveness, great interviews? Yes.
Lacks ambition, desire, leadership skills? Give me a break.
by boxnard on Feb 16, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
His performance at the Vuelta shows that he has all the ambition to be the leader but is simple not allowed to be.
His performance at the Vuelta showed that he has all the ability to be a team leader but is not allowed to be on Astana. If he had the ambition to be the leader he would have found a different team after disco folded. Instead he followed bert to Astana where is should have been pretty clear which way the wind was blowing. I think he showed plenty of ambition going to disco in the first place, but Johan seems to have done wonders in surgically extracting it via the Basso debacle and the 2007 TdF. He could have tried again to jump ship for this year as well as bert seems to have wanted but I’ve hear of no attempts to do so.
by Rothko on Feb 16, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Levi made his pact
His realistic choice was between being a marginal captain on a marginally-threatening GT team like Gerol, or being a stud domestique on Astana. He’s said the real reason for his choice is that he’s performed at his best with Astana, and it doesn’t hurt that the team has been excellent. Also, money probably has something to do with it. The point is, he probably could be a GT threat, but who was going to invest in him? An American, in his thirties?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Feb 16, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's about the money that's fine
but then I don’t want to hear any complaining about Levi not being allowed to be team leader. If he were available at a reasonable price then a whole bunch of teams would probably want to invest in him, at least one year. Quickstep for instance, they were looking at Lance and they want an overall GT threat. Oh and were have I heard that “I perform well on astana and riding for a winner is also very rewarding to me” Oh that’s right…Kloden!…that guy drives me nuts.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Meh
I’m not sure European teams would bother staffing a real GT squad for an older American. They might give him a contract, but zero support. Why would Levi bother? He tried that with two teams already.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Feb 17, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just for the record
Ambition is a strong desire to do or achieve something. Thats right, the desire. Not the foresight. Not the ability. The desire.
Where exactly was he suppose to jump ship to? The job market is pretty slim for GT hopes who have 1. lived in the shadow of others while developing their talent and 2. been pushed back into it when they prove they are worth building a team around(Johan thought about it for a few weeks, then nailed Levi to a tree with Basso). This topic is like pulling teeth. At the end of the day, the dude has been stuck in the worst possible situation with his skill sets, team hierarchy, and late onset of contention. IN NO WAY does this reflect on his ability to lead a team or show that he lacks ambition, given the proper definition of the word.
by boxnard on Feb 16, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I know what ambition means
You said that his performance in the Vuelta showed “he has all the ambition to be the leader” – I disagree – it shows ability but says nothing about his leadership aspirations – as Kloeden demonstrates. I’ve got nothing against that – I’ve praised riders in the past for sacrificing themselves in the service of others. I don’t think less of Devolder for moving into Boonens shadow – or more of Nuyens and Pozzato for moving out of it.
IN NO WAY does this reflect on his ability to lead a team
I agree
or show that he lacks ambition, given the proper definition of the word.
Well yeah you can have all sorts of ambitions, but seeing as we were talking about team leadership I think the fact that he’s stayed with Contador does say something about his desire to lead a team. That’s OK – maybe he’s looking at the money or he’s comfortable with the management or he gets to ride the races that are important to him. It’s not necessarily a criticism.
by Rothko on Feb 16, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep and that's what I was saying
and it’s not just Levi, I’ll us my fellow countrymen as an example, Kloden. He is incapable of being leader because he just can’t handle it. He has no ambition to be leader and has made that very clear, does he have the ability to? Hell yea(2 Tour seconds) Oh. and what team is he on, the one were he doesn’t have to be leader and could perform well in Gt’s working for others but doesn’t have to handle the load of being leader. Just happens to be the same team that Levi is on.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Levi jumping ship would not show ambition, it would show stupidity.
The team dynamics of Bruyneel teams raises the caliber of riders performances from GC leader to domestique. The fact is Levi is not a wheelsucker, you don’t draft someone up the Col d’Aubisque. Levi isn’t a punchy climber like Alberto, but he can certainly drop the hammer and power away from great climbers. Phil said he has to wait and see Levi up against the best in the world on some real climbs, that brings me back to the 2007 Col d’Aubisque which he won in my record book.
Chris is mostly right, wrong by saying he probably could be a GT threat. He is a GT threat. I don’t think you meant to say probably?
by sminer on Feb 16, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I remember from that stage
is Contador constantly attacking Rasmussen with Levi and Evans always lagging behind in trying to catch, then Levi went by an exhausted Contador in the final km, and Rasmussen still won that stage in the official record books. Now I know Levi is a great climber but he still doesn’t attack riders, and still sits on many wheels. Really I don’t have a problem with that because he doesn;t have the acceleration as Contador has. My original post was meant to say that I still see Levi as the boring rider, who often sucks wheels and doesn’t go on the attack first like he did today, and I wont change that stance until he does what he did today in the Tour. Once again I don’t care if he wants to suck wheels, or if he’s boring, if it gets him the best result well than that’s his right. I don’t know were the whole ambition debate started but that was the original meaning of my first post up yonder.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Levi attacked a few times on that day tearing the leaders apart.
But Levi can’t ride the way you or anyone wants him to ride, “explosively” and “thrillingly”. I’ve found him frustrating and boring before, but the guy is doing what he is capable of doing, and I think that is more than I can say for a lot of pro riders. People defend ‘their’ riders as being smart when they sit on someone’s wheel and take the win, or sit in a sprint because they know they’re beaten. Hell, you said today that Levi should accept defeat today to Peterson, as if Levi were whinning about coming in second. Levi knows the game rules, it was on him to keep towing it to the line today.
If you don’t accept Levi’s 2007 Tour performance on the biggest climbers day to be sufficient, then you’re not being fair to the guy and you just don’t want to change your stance.
by sminer on Feb 16, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not accepting his performance?
when did I ever say that? I do respect him as a rider and what he has achieved. Also, I don’t care if he rides explosively, I’m not really a fan of his, don’t dislike him but he’s not one of my favs, but this post was about apologizing to Levi because of what he did today, and I stated that if he doesn’t do what he did today at the Tour than I still will see him as that type of boring rider who doesn’t have the acceleration and does need to grab some wheels at times. Hell, my favorite rider, Leenoos, doesn’t have that acceleration either and is pretty boring at times, I don’t have anything against riders who ride like that. I said he should deal with it at the finish because he seemed upset, but after viewing it again I’m not actually sure what his reaction was supposed to mean.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe his reaction was, "Hell yea, I'm the leader now baby"
His quote after was this: "I understand his position."He’s down on the GC. Zabriskie being the leader was behind. You can understand him not working. That’s just how cycling goes. He made it to the top, he made it with me where others did not. In a matter of respect you could say he deserves the win. You could say I deserve it as well, but that’s just how it goes. No hard feelings."
You don’t have to back pedal on Levi at all. Dislike the guy all you want, that’s cool. I’m just saying that the guy isn’t wheel sucking up those climbs during the GT’s, gravity doesn’t care if there’s a cyclist in front of you, unless there is also a wind coming down the mountain. But Levi’s not going to do what he did today in any GT any better than he did in ‘07, so that’s not a fair chance you give him. GT guys are just not riding at his level this time of year.
by sminer on Feb 16, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't dislike him, I swear I don't
he just isn’t one of the riders I follow. It’s like I don’t dislike the, oh lets say Florida Marlins in baseball, but I don’t care how they do and I don’t follow them, they aren’t my team…And thanks for the qoute, if you check out the replay again Levi flashed something with his hands after the finish, at first I interpreted that as a shot against Peterson but now knowing that Mancebo was well back it probably was just excitement that he took the GC lead and did such a great race. Oh and just a side note, I think he actually climbed better at last years Vuelta than in the 07 Tour so maybe he can do better than in 07, I still don’t rule out a late in the career GT victory…as long as he isn’t riding for Bert in that race.
"If you go (with a break), you can either win or not win. If you don't go for it, you definitely won't win."
~ Jens Voigt
by Phil H. on Feb 16, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice discussion here guys
Let me throw a stone in the pond too.
I’m with my fellow European Phil here. Levi is a nice bloke but he is just not team-leader/GT-winner material.
His legs sure make him a GT-threat but imho he misses the strength of character to put his fist down and take control of the team and dominate the big races. A born leader in his prime would never accept a spot in the hierarchy behind someone else. He would immediately start scheming to dethrone the actual team-leader or start looking for another team to prove himself. The sudden entrance of Lance sure should have given Levi some opportunities for the first option.
The tour of 86 is a classic example I think. Hinault promised to support LeMond but attacked the same LeMond with all his power. LeMond had to prove both his physical capacity and leadership skills to win the tour and to convince Hinault.
So I think Levi made an excellent choice. He rides with the best and gets his chances to shine. I guess he has accepted who he is and what he can and can’t do. Maybe his American fans should too?
by Lopex on Feb 17, 2009 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gang signs
if you check out the replay again Levi flashed something with his hands after the finish
Ah. That was him representing his hometown set – the SRLN.*
*Santa Rosa Little Nuggets.
by Sui Juris on Feb 17, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Soooo... are we still planning on printing this out...
… and giving it to him with a bouquet in Solvang? I’m thinking …errrr… no.
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
by crashdan on Feb 17, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And exactly how many underused team leader spots do you think there are?
Go ahead… oh, only teams that are guaranteed GT slots, of course. And have even a minimal level of support, riderwise, to contest a GT (as opposed to being classics only, or stage contenders). Oh, and they have to hire people who are not Basque (unless you know something I don’t about Levi). I’m not saying the team doesn’t exist, but I’m not really visualizing that empty, beckoning team leader slot.
by JFS_PGH on Feb 17, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have said
for the 2008 season – Liquigas (vs Pellizotti, Kreuziger, Nibali) – the leadership slot was definitely empty there – it’s the one Basso is in now; back to Rabobank where I don’t think they think too highly of Menchov to have shunted him off to the Vuelta again and Gesink is still too young; or Columbia (vs Rogers, Gerdemann, and Kirchen). They’re all strong teams where he would have been a standout leader. All three would also have given him the US racing he’d want as well. There are other good reasons for him moving to Astana though, but it was his choice.
by Rothko on Feb 17, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you dissing my Gilbert??
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
by CycleGirl on Feb 17, 2009 1:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa
That’s a shunning offense.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris... on Feb 17, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, Dissing means fighting!!
We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing.
George Bernard Shaw, 1856-1950
by CycleGirl on Feb 18, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"...order Levi a big FTD bouquet."
Yes!
Does FTD have bouquets of short-stemmed roses?
Greg
by gregm on Feb 16, 2009 7:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hey Greg
I think I saw you and your wife on tv at the finish today, during the stage. When the weather made live video impossible they switched to the finish line and showed people milling about. I think I recognized your wife from your pictures on Sunday. You both had big smiles on your faces (if it was you).
i was very envious :-)
"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."
Tom Boonen
by Drew... on Feb 16, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You saw us on the couch in Berkeley?
Good eyesight!
Kirsten
by Kirsten on Feb 16, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hrm, not us!
Hm, Kirsten wasn’t in yesterday’s pix, I don’t think, and we stayed at home today.
Here’s Kirsten with her Bonny Doon Vineyard wine and Echelon wine:
by gregm on Feb 16, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
sing-off
Most important, a Levi interview doesn’t set the dogs barking, like the voice of the alleged wheelsucker from the southern hemisphere.
by phantom_51 on Feb 17, 2009 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
All this talk about leadership qualities and getting screwed out of GC top spot because of crap team support...
… I was wondering when someone and their yappy dog was going to get mentioned :)
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc.
by crashdan on Feb 17, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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