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Blocking etiquette

Hello wealth of cycling knowledge at my findger tips, how are you today?  Good, me too.  I have a quick question for you. What are the rules of etiquette with regards to blocking? 

 

A bit of back story perhaps.  Last weekend I attended the Rutgers/Princeton season opener for Collegiate racing on the east coast.  Good time had by all...ish.  Saturday after a solid pack fill perfomance in the ITT I lined up for the crit on Princeton campus.  1km laps, 200m power climb each lap, 30 min total.  Needless to say, the race explodes in the first lap, with three guys getting clear of the main group.  I manage to hold onto the main group by the skin of my teeth, finally working my way up to the front with about 10-15 min left to race.  To my knowledge, there are still three guys out front, so I try and organize some of the guys around me to try and bring them back.  But the guys up the road have teamates in my group.  about three gus from those (two) teams are sitting at the front, and when ever we get to a 'long' section fo the course, they sit up hands on the tops and soft pedal.  fair enough, I don't expect them to chase down their own guys.  But whenever I tried to get to the front to 'inject some pace', the three guys would essentially run me into the gutter.  So the only way to get around them was to sprint past them, meaning that you couldn't pull for long after that. This is what I looked like the few times I did manage to get around them:

N1408209716_260920_5505214_medium

via photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net

Note the Rutgers and UPenn guys laughing on my wheel.   Long story short (TOO LATE!) the three guys out front had lapped the field and were also laughing on my wheel...and I had just enough energy left at the finish to win the sprint for 12th.

So my question:  Is the football tackle apporach to blocking considered a 'legit' maneuver?  I have Jullich's beautiful move at the Tour de Suisse last year as my example of what good blocking looks like.  Should I stop looking for that at sub-pro levels?  And at what point is an elbow permitted?  I get tired of yelling all the time.

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They never expect it

from the school from the ‘nice’ country.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look

You were the victim of what we used to call a Cat 3 Clog….they should move out of the way and let the other riders lead the chase…but I’m guessing by the length of the crit it wasn’t Cat 1 or 2 or is it still A/B at the college level, and as such, you are always going to have this problem. If they really tried to ‘run you into the gutter, well they’re never going to get anywhere in cycling…because they’re by definitions ‘losers’

However, the source of the problem is not the ‘blocking’ per se, more so that other riders from the teams not represented in the break should/must force themselves to the front and bring the race back together, which is what you will see in higher levels. Here in France, sitting on the front of a Cat 2 race and soft pedaling is a death wish.

Sure the teams with riders in the front should ride towards the front, and ‘follow’ any riders who attack to bridge the gap, but purposely blocking is not on.

Essentially, you have two options….give up or try to organize the chase, which i guess is what you tried, however, the best option is to ‘make the break’ in the beginning.

by bradBordeaux on Mar 16, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Did Lance win this race?

That guy can win anything!

Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?

by crashdan on Mar 16, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Does he go to UPenn?

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

If not

does that mean UPenn loves cancer?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll ask them at the next race.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hands on the hoods & soft-peddlin'

not to mention, running you in the gutter is a little over the top, not illegal, but it sounds like the 3 guys were bullying…not much you can do about it except get pissed off and be vocal about it.

I kinda agree with bradBordeaux above…if you’re already in the situation, what are your choices?
  1) Organize the chase (with 3 or MORE guys) to overpower the bullies.
  2) Give up and document it as lesson learned.
  3) If you have the legs, try to break away & bridge on your own.

As far as “elbow permitted”…I wouldn’t try that, unless your team outnumbers them. Dudes’ll get all bowed up on the bike, but back down in the parking lot afterward.

right click, refresh

by swells on Mar 16, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Try to break away and bridge on your own.

Hopefully, one or two other riders will go with you (who don’t have teammates in the break). Even if you don’t succeed, at least you tried something.

I’ve dealt with some shitty blocking before too. A rider who was at the front with one teammate off the front, sweeping back and forth if anyone tried to come around him. I rode to the front to tell him to cut that shit out because he would crash someone out and he says, “I’m blocking”. And proceeded to tell me he would knock me off my bike, which was what I was worried about in the first place. I even tried to talk to his teammates and others in the group and everyone was scared or not savvy to the danger? His teammate told me, “none of us are experts”.

D-bags like that make me want to only do hilly selective road races.

by brunopitton on Mar 16, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Jump and Dangle.

Jump off the front and dangle out there for a while. Any one serious about chasing will find their way across to your wheel and then you can “go get ’em”. If no one joins you after while then you have to decide if you are prepared to go it alone, or float back to the group.

Sounds like riding on the front was only going to bring you road rash …

You never want to be riding near someone who can’t hold a line, no matter what the reason, or their rationale.

by muk on Mar 16, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd try spitting

Seriously… running you into the gutter? That’s total bullshit. If cycling has one single rule, it’s hold your lines. Yes, there are fine points to it, like closing the door on a wheelsucker trying to come around at the end, but these caveats are pretty limited, and don’t extend IMHO to swerving in a flat straight to cut off a legitimate bridge effort.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Adding...

my limited understanding of blocking is blocking the speed of the peloton. If nobody is willing to do the work, you get on the front and mock them by going somewhat slowly. You can’t deliberately interfere with someone who wants to get on the front and hammer.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

one of the crappy things I've found about cycling

is that the lower the level of the cyclists in a given race, the more dangerous/annoying/antagonistic things get. This is so different from other sports, e.g. if you’re playing basketball with a bunch of crappy guys you just score every time you get the ball (though I guess there’s more potential for injury there too, since people are moving in unpredictable ways – more likely to come down on someone’s foot). I’m echoing Brad’s comment from above but can you imagine that shit happening in Europe? That dude’s own teammates would beat the crap out of him. God I’m violent today. Maybe that dude will learn his lesson when he goes down just as hard or harder than the person he takes down. Anyways I’d say the best advice is a. stay away from him b. keep improving so you can move up to a higher cat. and race with people who have more of an idea of what they’re doing.

The frame pump idea seems pretty good too, anyone remember those Italian guys in Breaking Away?

By the way I can’t tell by the kit, who do you race for, McGill?

by plinytheelder on Mar 16, 2009 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

indeed

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm still trying to solve a math problem...

How do you win the sprint for 12th?

Did I miss something in the story?

by sminer on Mar 16, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually

I won the sprint for 9th by beating the guy who came 10th. However, the three who lapped the field were behind me.

Success is all just a state of mind.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good effort Hons

Nice to see you riding without your parka, too.

"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."

Tom Boonen

by Drew Davis on Mar 21, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's obvious....

They did it because you were the only dude wearing knee warmers.
I had ex pro’s take my line in a wheelrace a couple of weeks back. I guess it depends on how badly you want that win, it’s a fine line between allowable and Illegal out there in the bunch…when in Rome. I think you need better teammates but I find that in the lower grades it’s all for one only so i am actually surprised that you had guys out there that actually had the sense to do that. Revenge is sweet. I took someone out in a pro running race once, just clipped his heels and made it look accidental by leaping over him when he went down (and that was because he was a football umpire in another life and had made what I considered a bad decision that had cost my team a Grand Final win) and I’m a nice guy…really.

errrr....am i supposed to sign this??

by Flatbagger on Mar 16, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Am pretty sure

that’s the first Airedale sighting in the history of the Podium Cafe.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Okee

First, the dudes “blocking” were assholios. Really, there’s no diplomatic way to put it. That is super not cool racing tactics. It is cool to interfere with the chase – we’ve seen a couple textbook examples of that recently. Cervélo did a very nice job of it at Omloop het thingy, and Bobby Julich did a smooth job of it last year for Cancellara (I’m forgetting the race). You never go to the front and sit up. In a stronger field, it wouldn’t work, anyway. But it is okay to interfere with the chase by intermingling with the chasing riders, taking slow(er) pulls when it’s your turn, making the rotation not so smooth by opening gaps. You can also try small attacks to break the rhythm. These are dandy ways to interfere with a chase effort. Sitting up and softpedaling is beyond lame. Putting peeps in the gutter, lamer still.

If you’re stuck in this sit., well, back up a sec. First rule of road racing, never ride in the wind unless you’re attacking. Did you have a team-mate in the field? If so, then cool to try to chase down the break. Otherwise, towing the field up the break is generous, but not really the ideal response. Assuming no team-mates, your best option is to attack repeatedly, and hope that someone else decides it looks fun and joins you. It sounds like it was late in the game for bridging to the leading group, but trying to get something of your own going is never a bad idea. Your other option is to sit-in, accept that you’re racing for fourth and save your legs for the bunch sprint. Never, ever tow the field, unless you have a team-mate who will profit from it. Always attack, or save your legs for the sprint.

In this scenario, it helps a lot to have team-mates. You can probably break the hold of the blockers by alternating attacks. You can also use numbers to get to the front and string things back out. Alone, well, we’re back to either attack and try to stay out there or wait for the sprint.

Tactics. Yum :-)

by Jen See on Mar 16, 2009 6:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Some more info

Re the race:
By the time these shenanigans were taking place, the race had split into many many pieces. I would estimate my group size at ~20 max. And my last teammate had been whistled off the course about 5 minutes earlier.

Re my skillz:
I can’t sprint to save my ass. My talent is that I’m older than most of the guys i’m racing against, and do better if the races are longer and harder. So basically, I get high placings in races by trying to make the front as selective as possible. Probably why I’m such a fan of how Rabo is riding this spring. And to my credit, I think I was attacking in that pic. I would attack around the start/finish line (white tent) and try to keep the pace high until the power climb (right after that pic). But because I had to attack from at least 4 wheels back….oh yeah, and I was dying…there was never much daylight between the group and I.

Re upgrading:
This is my second year racing. Last year I was in the same division (Men’s C) and was off the back more often than not. More due to tactical mistakes rather than lack of fitness (apparently # of hours live blogging pro races does not correlate to actual pack skills). This year I decided to stay in this category rather than moving up so that I could get the chance to see the front of the peleton and actually try out some of these fancy tactics I hear so much about.

I guess the thing I need to work on most is my accelerations. Attacking, sprinting…seems like a key skill. Otherwise I’m going to turn into that hand waving guy who never quite wins races.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Re my skillz - Attacking/sprinting is a whole 'nuther thread, my friend.

Attacking from 4 wheels back is a pretty good strategy, actually. It sounds like your experience is progressing in the right direction, IMO.

Re: “# hours live blogging pro races does not correlate to actual pack skills” – that’s true. Here’s another one: my endurance was lagging towards the end of the week…turns out 4 pints of Guinness a night is not the ideal training diet. Who knew?

\o/

right click, refresh

by swells on Mar 16, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did someone say Guiness?

Hey just taper that Guiness drinking a bit, or switch to a nice german weiss beer for better electrolytes and healthier carbs, or you can try this dietary advice… http://www.break.com/index/the-miracle-beer-diet.html

by sminer on Mar 16, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wells I am cracking up everytime I see you post now.

Right click, refresh. ha ha ha ha!!!

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Mar 16, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Accleratin'

Mos’ def’ work on the acceleration. It’s so very key for the road racing. You want to be able to jump hard to clear your wheel, even from four riders back – and actually, it’s better to attack from a few riders back, because you come from behind, and it buys you a little time before the guys on the front can react. Also, even though you aren’t a fab sprinter, definitely train for the sprints. You’ll still get owned by the guys who really can sprint, but you’ll outsprint a bunch of people much of the time. Sometimes that’s enough to win some. (Gav, gets owned by sprinters.)

One thing to think about next time is using the course more to your advantage. It’s always better to attack when the race has just done something hard – like sprinted for a prime or gone over a climb. In this case, you might have had more luck attacking on the power climb and trying to get a gap – you have to feel the momentum, but sometimes sucking wheel and then slingshotting over the top of a wee climb can get you a gap. (Gav likes this one.) Attacking after a climb is often workable if the descent isn’t too fast – a fast descent isn’t likely to give you much to work with. But if there isn’t much descent after the climb, there may be an opportunity to attack, because everyone’s like fuck we just went over the climb, we’re tired, let’s just sit here. In and out of corners is also a good one in a crit. Usually the straights in a crit won’t give you much – too easy. If you have to attack in the straights, make sure to use the whole road. If everyone is sitting on the left, attack hard to the right. It’ll help clear your wheel, which is super key.

You always need to jump hard enough to clear your wheel. If the group can follow, sit up, do over. Don’t give them any free rides. Unless I’m on your wheel. Then, please, give me a free ride :-P

by Jen See on Mar 16, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alternating attacks is the only way

Never ,ever, ever, jump and dangle. Do it or don’t do it.

by NorCal on Mar 16, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

In general I agree, but in this case... I disagree

If the main group has been shut down as described, to the point where those on the front are soft pedaling; and if the breakaway is too far away to consider a solo; then dangling off the front is a viable alternative. Who knows, there might be 2 or 3 others just waiting to grab a wheel…

Just don’t burn yourself out while sitting there – and if the group really is sitting on the hoods and soft pedaling then ….

This is where good blocking works. The trick is not to slow everyone right down, that just encourages attacks. The idea is to set a tempo that lulls those behind you into a comfort zone, but lets the break get away. Keep the pace on and let your breakaways gradually add time into the group.

by muk on Mar 16, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

and if all else fails...

just go up to the dude, punch him in the face, and say “outta the way, shetbag”

by plinytheelder on Mar 16, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

If it was only one sure

but the whole team was in on it. If I started to move up the right side, someone behind would call out my move so the dooches up front could run me into the barriers.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

TBH...

That’s pretty straight up illegal according to any UCI rule I can think of, is it not? Besides being dangerous as hell. One would think complaining to your coach and having them have a little talk with their coach / race marshalls might put a stop to that sort of tactic tout suite.

by Ed K on Mar 16, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously

Rat those fuckers out to the commissars. When they bought their USA cycling license,they also bought into the rules. You can have your coach talk to their coach, but if they pull any Cobra Kai crap on you, just cock punch the biggest one and then run like hell

More Muur...

by Jimbo... on Mar 16, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah I was just going to ask about that

I mean from your description it seems like anyone watching the race could have seen it. yeah cockpunch the shetbag

by plinytheelder on Mar 16, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unfortunately

I kind of am our coach. But I may make an informal inquiry as to the legality of that maneuver at our next race.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 16, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't gotten the 2009 rule book yet but

in the 2008 book, tab pages 34-35. Rules 105-107 can be sighted in your complaints.
Shoving someone into the gutter to keep them from trying to bring back a break is not going to fly.
A rider with a license must be respectful, should not make abrupt motions that interfere with forward movements of others, and they are not allowed to be dangerous to other riders.

If it continues to happen, you need to point it out to the officials. The obviously can’t be everywhere and can’t see everything so if shady things are going on that are against the rules, point them out and ask them to keep an eye on it.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Mar 16, 2009 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah

Ladies and Gentlemen, say hello to the new Podium Cafe General Counsel, the honorable Jimbo!

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 17, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depends

It depends on how it’s done – big grey area on stuff like this, between illegal and just plain douchey. Is this a word? I think I make one.

Not on race day, you could have a chat with the team coach and with people on other teams. If you do it on race day, you’ll end up sounded like a bit of a whiner. Me, I think your best bet is to make friends with other teams and work to overpower them so they can’t control the race like this. In a strong field, stuff like this simply isn’t possible.

by Jen See on Mar 17, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

What college were they representing?

Maybe we can go with the public humiliation route.

right click, refresh

by swells on Mar 17, 2009 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I found this book to be a cool reference for tactics.

It’s Racing Tactics For Cyclists by Thomas Prehn. Some of it many of us already know, through experience. Mostly it’s a good read on tactics, and the mechanics of how various situations work. It’s even got illustrations….. I recommend it for those who race and for those for whom the mechanics of an echelon are Greek mythology. Unfortunately it doesn’t directly address the situation at hand, but as someone else pointed out, direct interference with a riders forward progress is illegal. Chase and break him, or let him go, one can’t do a Breaking Away on a guy just because he wants to go forward.
  Usually tactics as you describe lead to some form of retribution later, especially since these asshats are going to be at other races this season, correct? Essentially we’re talking the tactics of a coward right? They basically are saying “Our guy is off the front, and we’re not smart enough or strong enough to protect that break by racing, so we’ll just sit up”. It’s only a classy move if they can pull it off and no one figures out they’re doing it. I’m guessing that there were others in your group that felt as you did, but didn’t know how to break the deadlock. It seems that if you can bring a couple of the other teams into the fight next time you can swarm these clowns and leave them in the dust. I’ve actually seen officials at races here, tell a block like that to race or get pulled.

by Christopher See on Mar 17, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Retribution may be a tough one to pull off as one of the team members of one of the teams involved (there were two) has won every event of the season so far.

1 ITT (won by 9" on a flat 4.5km course)
3 crits (in two weekends)
and 1 circuit race.

So I think chronic sandbagging can be added to asshat dooshebag team tactics.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, I'm sure of it.

Now, I really hate him.

right click, refresh

by swells on Mar 17, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm trying to stay positive

But let’s just say, if I manage to beat him in any race this yea, I may not be able to restrain the giant “IN YOUR FACE!!”

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's something around the eyes that reminds me of...........

"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."

Tom Boonen

by Drew Davis on Mar 21, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Me.

"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."

Tom Boonen

by Drew Davis on Mar 21, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK full shunning will be the only answer for these asshats then.

I positively hated sandbaggers in my day.. wait I still do, they show up for group rides and proceed to lolligag and wheelsuck about until everyone has done some work and is starting to tire then the turn up the wattage to the point where no one is enjoying the ride at all….

by Christopher See on Mar 17, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ummm . . . .

First, road racing is not an individual sport, it requires cooperation with teammates and other teams with like minded goals.
So, go make some friends, on your team, as well as in the ranks and your life will get a lot easier.

Second, a block is a block, and if someone is trying to put you in the gutter it is all in good fun.
Nobody ever said road racing was not a contact sport, especially crits.
Look, you’ve got one of the biggest bodies in the picture.
Quit being such a wuss and bump some elbows.

Go on ebay and get yourself a nice used C’dale, or some other cheap alloy frame and go do a little rubbin’
US crit racing is a lot like NASCAR.
Get used to it.

by Ryan_Liles on Mar 17, 2009 12:10 PM EDT reply actions  

appreciated

when posting this, I was of two minds. 1) this move was seriously sketchy and dangerous. 2) this is what racing is. Seems like both perspectives have been reinforced. Basically, this year is the first time that I’ve been strong/savy enough to see the front of the peleton and have the strength left do do anything. So, the purpose of this post was too figure out if this is something that I should be concerned about…or get used to.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh

and thank your delicate mention of my “biggest body in the picture” ;-)

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

In my defence

I have a history of knee problems so I keep them covered until it hits at least 20, unlike the young whippersnappers in the pack who have never seen the inside of a physio clinic.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wise choice

They’ll last longer that way! The knees, I mean.

by Jen See on Mar 17, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

that’s the plan

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

They also reduce the severity of early season crashes

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 17, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

no defence needed

Seriously, once I got religion about my knees, and actually bothered covering up? Big difference. Too bad it took so long to learn.

by Sui Juris on Mar 17, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know, if you put your bars in front of theirs

you can put them wherever you want left/right. It’s not hard. Put the offender on the inside of you for the next corner and cut it a bit closer than they’d like. All of a sudden, you’ve got them a ways behind you, as they’re not likely to hop the curb. No question. It’s inches that matter. It’s not nice racing, but it is racing.

Obviously, you can’t do it to three hombres at a time; motivating the rest of the group is the problem. That being said, one or two racers blocking is not the problem you think it is. If you’re strong enough to get to the front, you’re strong enough to go with the three guys away in the first place. Mark ‘em in your next race. The actors don’t change, just the venue.

25s on dirt, what's not to like?

by snakeboat on Mar 18, 2009 2:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Ha

Thought that this post was going to be about Twitter blocking etiquette.

by Steno on Mar 18, 2009 11:59 AM EDT reply actions  

............

I don’t even know what that is…..

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 18, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

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