Tirreno-Adriatico: Turning a Page
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 3:11 PM EDT
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What do Michele Scarponi, Ivan Basso and Stefano Garzelli all have in common? Well, some shared experiences to say the least, most recently today's escape from the peloton which vaulted all but Basso onto the podium of Tirreno-Adriatico, in all likelihood. In addition, all three have gone through -- and emerged from -- the UCI's doping control enforcement program in some form or another. Garzelli did his time years ago, after testing positive (in the maglia rosa) during the 2002 Giro d'Italia for a masking agent, while Basso and Scarponi are two cases which hit closer to home: Operacion Puerto perps who served their time.
All three, more than other returning suspendees like Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, threaten to force fans to decide how they feel about welcoming back ex-dopers. Basso returns to a high-salary, high-profile position at Liquigas and a probable favorite's role for the centenary Giro d'Italia. Scarponi is about to win the second-biggest stage race on Italian soil and is a threat to win in the Ardennes (albeit not the first name to come to mind). Garzelli was flying last fall when he was conspicuously omitted from the Italian World Championships squad... I suppose with Bettini retired it's possible we would see Garzelli get the shot at the glory agonizingly* denied to him last year when the worlds come to Mendrisio this year. [* Not my agony; his -- he's from Varese.]
Basso and Scarponi both come back fresh off suspensions, when you would hope the experience has convinced them to fly straight. Then again, they both copped to "attempted doping" and denied any actual infraction. For a lot of us, this is less than a real confession, and not as helpful to the sport's effort to cleaning up. They aren't heroes, not by a long shot. Hell, even Riccardo Ricco came out and said "I did it." But they accepted punishment. [Did Garzelli ever confess? I don't recall; certainly not at first. Am also having trouble remembering if he has been the subject of any more recent whispers.]
All three riders, it should be noted, are with teams listed among the 36 teams participating in the UCI Biological Passport program (scroll down to Venezuela for Serramenti). I guess this is the key: if you believe in the bio-passports, then you shouldn't be disturbed by the Italian trio's return. Meanwhile, OUCH and Rock Racing are not on the list -- probably for good reasons, but again if the bio-passport is your clearinghouse for ex-cons, well, Hamilton and Landis aren't being cleared, at least not in this manner. [Not that either troubles me: they aren't being invited to many top races, and aren't winning the ones where they take the start, so whatever.]
I find all of this very ambiguous and don't like making pronouncements as to who is currently clean or dirty; all I will say is that the Italians are on equal footing with a lot of riders about whom I harbor no suspicions, so I am willing to accept them back. Hopefully they will race in France at some point, a country one would probably avoid if they had something to hide. I also have to applaud the Italian system for at least processing some cases. Italy is the last place you will ever find exemplary forms of justice, but for now their riders who have been implicated aren't in some awful limbo. They were accused and examined; CONI got confessions out of them (of a sort); suspensions happened; and when they paid their debt to the peloton the riders were invited back. That the system also bagged a few of the biggest names (Basso, Ricco, and limited dealings with DiLuca and Petacchi) is a sign that it's not cynically selective, and seemingly unlike their Spanish counterpart, CONI is not in the business of protecting big investments. I am certain there are omissions, and you could argue that the returns of Basso and Scarponi represent punishment that's too soft. But the (desired) end point of crime and punishment is rehabilitation, and today was a big day for that.
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I wholeheartedly agree...
Given the degree to which most indications show that there was a period of about a decade where EPO and blood doping practices of one sort or another were rampant in the peloton, I’m inclined to welcome back pretty much anyone who’s willing to, when caught, take their medicine then return to the sport and compete in a verifiably clean way going forward.
I’m also a lot less worked up about whether or not rider X has given the requisite soul baring tearful confession. I think, especially given that a lot of them have to, perhaps quite justifiably, feel like they’re getting punished for something most everyone else around them was also doing, that its understandable that they’d rather be more or less businesslike about it.
I think this is especially true given that there are a lot of fans / observers who are never going to be satisfied with anyone’s confession, or even non-confession. Consider LA as an instructive case. Whether or not you think he did something, there is only the most profoundly circumstantial evidence that he might have, and he passed cleanly through controls that caught a number of others. The thing is, that isn’t going to ‘resolve’ the case in some people’s minds, and indeed nothing short of LA saying ‘I did’ will, and even then there will always be people going ‘but is that really all you did?’ Given that he may very well not have, or at least not after cancer, its a rather impossible position. I think the same goes for pretty much any of the rest of these guys.
And I think for us, the way forward is not some kind of quixotic pursuit of complete transparency about a muddy and complicated past. That’s impossible. We can and should work for the highest possible degree of transparency now and going forward. If returning riders are willing to participate in and cooperate with that effort, fine. If not, they can stay away.
Indeed
People who insist on proving negatives… I don’t know how you can watch at all. I mean, there is no way to get complete satisfaction. I would have preferred more of a confession from Basso and Pony-boy [I’ve been wanting to call him that all day after listening to RAI: “scarPOniiiii”, but the fact that they confessed at all and accepted their suspensions was a constructive development.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I seemed to recall
that Scarponi’s confession was reasonably thorough. Checking CN:
Yes, I am Zapatero and Il Presidente," said Italian Michele Scarponi yesterday during a two-hour hearing with Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) anti-doping prosecutor Ettore Torri. The 27 year-old rider had been linked with Doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, and yesterday confirmed his code name and other secrets. “They are nicknames that they gave to me,” he confirmed, according to La Gazzetta dello Sport.
The ten pages that Scarponi agreed to sign as part of his confession are being kept a secret by Torri and his assistant Franco Cosenza. The reason is speculated to be that the contents have names of other riders not yet known to the public.
“They are afraid to talk,” explained Torri. “They are afraid to be cast aside.”
The “he” in the next quote I assume refers to Scarponi as well:
“He was able to detail the ‘system’ of doping and how the riders come into contact with this web of easygoing doctors, teams without scruples and traffickers.”
Someone might be able to dig out the original Gazzetta coverage and give us some more details; but it seems to me he made a lengthy confession but that it has been kept mostly confidential by CONI. Torri seemed satisfied and I’d have to say that, while not ideal, I am probably satisfied with that too.
OK
I only meant that he did not confess to doping himself, but whatever, his cooperation is probably more important.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
confused
Pretty sure that Scarponi’s confession covered the whole burrito. That he used Fuentes’s services, I mean. There wasn’t any sort of “attempted” about it. The Basso case overshadowed his, however, so he was never really put on the spot to the degree Basso was.
Here ya go
Scarponi also admitted his involvement in the Operación Puerto affair, but like Basso, denied actually doping.
Torri believes that possible retaliation from other cyclists may be preventing Puerto implicated riders from confessing all the details of their involvement with Dr Eufemiano Fuentes and his blood doping network.
from Cyclingnews
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
Really good post Chris
In case anyone wonders, these kinds of posts from you is one of the main reasons PdC is a great site.
As for your conclusions my brain agrees with all of them. And still the day leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach which I know is irrational and probably stems to a large degree from disappointment and a healthy dose of sour grapes. Sometimes though, we are not as strong as Jens!. My mind can’t make my body shut up today for instance
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
:-) thanks
And I share the sensation — it all makes sense, but you never quite forget who they are.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That's pretty much what I was going to say
but then I look at who they stuffed today, and he’s not someone I’d cheer on either. And you can never forget the “Italians gang up on the foreigner” side of it either, which always somehow heartens me.
Yeah
Show of hands as to who was rooting for someone besides Lovkvist or Nibali today…?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
For me, the confession counts
I’m not tranquillo with Basso’s return. When Ricco comes back, I will be tranquillo. He confessed to being a dirty doper and he will serve out his suspension. And when his suspension is over, I will welcome him back and promptly put him on my VDS team.
For Basso and anyone else that lives in the gray area of “attempted doper,” I will actively root against them. To me, he is still trying to hide something and I will continue to think he is trying to hide something until he comes clean.
perhaps a hypothetical question...
What if he actually was only an attempted doper?
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
that's a little too hypothetical for me
If he did enough of the legwork to show up in the files, then I don’t have any reservations as resting firmly on the “doper” side of the fence.
Fair enough
but then why can you not cheer for him when they return? He admitted to what he did, and he served his sentence. If you will forgive the ‘real’ dopers, why won’t you forgive the almost ‘real’ dopers?
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Forgive < cheer for
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
but PopUp is drawing a very clear line and those on one side get forgiven (and possibly cheered for) and those on the other get actively anti-cheered. I’m jsut trying to figure out how that line gets drawn.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Honestly hons, I wish there was a concrete way I could draw the line
But along with everything else that involves doping, I think it’s a combination of factors that impacts everyone differently and often changes. I look at Ricco and David Millar, and they simply said, I doped. No ambiguity. No second guessing. To me, Basso has not come completely clean. What do I base it on? Solely my opinion. I may be wrong, and I’m definitely not saying that this is the line of thinking that everyone should follow.
For me the line is
If they didn’t have the backbone to come right out and admit what they’ve done before, I have absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume they will not do it again.
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
And how do you know your guesses / intuitions about what that is...
…are right?
Leaving aside the fact that there are obviously implausible ‘confessions’ floating around there, I’m really not sure that once you get beyond that there is any reasonable standard you could possibly give. And this, I think is the problem. Somewhere along the way, it seems like the only actually reliable measure (and its not perfect) is someone’s willingness to cooperate with new testing / transparency regimes going forward and what those regimes tell us about them. Otherwise, its all just, “well I don’t like / believe / trust or whatever him” and if that’s the standard, then I don’t see how we ever rehabilitate anyone.
If we just want to burn all demonstrated dopers to the ground and be done with it, then that’s one way to go. And there seems to be a real movement in that direction. But I’m not sure that’s any better for the long term health of the sport than just blowing the rules off altogether was. In fact, I’d bet that you go far enough in the draconian direction and the net effect will be that the rules will start to get blown off again because otherwise it’d be an unacceptable bloodbath.
i don't think he is an "almost real doper"
I put anyone on the “attempted doper” bus in the “actually caught doping” bus. They just don’t have the concrete positive test attached to there name, just a mountain of evidence without the blood. To me, that is the same thing.
He was caught fair and square by the sporting authorities
but if he’d confessed he could well have been facing criminal charges too. Taking his ban quietly seems as close as we’ll get to a confession and that’s how I’m taking it.
Yeah
I suppose this is the kicker. You can’t expect riders to confess everything in an era where, for example, they have taken out insurance policies or entered into other contracts which could be in breach (and subject to huge damages) if they literally “admit it.” There’s only so much punishment a person is willing to sign up for.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
This goes to my post below too. The more draconian and extensive we make these punishments past a certain point, the less likely we are to get cooperation. There needs to be some balance here and, I fear, we may be going in exactly the wrong direction because everyone is so damn eager to find enough scapegoats that they can declare the problem solved.
What's the REAL story with DiLuca?
My understanding is:
1. He had a ‘conversation’ taped, where he discussed it.
and
2. He had a questionably low test result in the Giro one year.
Is that IT? That’s all?
I know he’s been suspended, couldn’t participate in the worlds last year, etc.
But that’s it? I mean, he’s never actually FAILED a test, right?
-Bob
AKA -Bianchi Bob
.....and, not that it matters, but....
He vehemently denies doping.
-Bob
AKA -Bianchi Bob
by DaniloTifoso on Mar 16, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
His suspension
was for visiting a doctor banned from working in sport (Santuccione). CONI also tried to get him on what looks like a preview of the sort of cases the biological passport will throw up, after he gave a urine sample described as “The peepee of the angels.”
Santuccione is an irremediable shit (the best stuff in English is at CFA and the saxobank forums) and I’m all in favour of the sport dishing out far longer bans for anyone who works with people like him in the future.
"The peepee of the angels."
That one had me laughing out loud. Is that your interpretation or did someone actually say someyhing like that?
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
+1
Hysterical. Almost as good as ‘this rider is pregnant’
Angels
use the bathroom?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, now we're getting into hard core theology...
…but the whole ‘how many angels fit on the head of a pin’ debate in medieval physics was really about whether or not they were corporeal at all, at least as far as I understand it. One would think if they’re corporeal, then yeah, you know, bodily functions. I’m sure there is something on this in Thomas someplace.
...also since those Medieval debates were often very consequentialist,
I’m sure many arguing on the side of no physical substance were doing so precisely because if we said they were embodied, we’d have to allow for all sorts of gross corporeal corruption in Angels. But I’m now truly talking out my ass.
what if
they were plants? Corporeal? check. Bodily functions? nope. Not waste, anyway.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why Medieval Philosophy / Theology became so vastly absurd...
…it was all done by thought experiments like this.
Ah. The Human Condition rears it's ugly head again.
It’s so easy to get distracted by one’s own thoughts. Like, “doping is bad”.
And anyway, if angels were plants they would have a waste product- oxygen. That oxygen would naturally lend itself to people wanting to manipulate it with oxygen tents, which Dick Pound hates.
Exactly...
Oxegen is a known performance enhancing substance! Ban it!
Why do you think we have rain?
Oh and they piss on Seattle a lot so you should no this
I don't know if you knew this, CTV is run by Bernard Madoff
Ah
so those clouds we’re looking up at are actually… never mind.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well lets not get too deep into it
and I just realized I wrote no for know….I bonked as bad as Bert there, time to eat.
I don't know if you knew this, CTV is run by Bernard Madoff
Great quote isn't it
I remember it from somewhere; now I’m going to have to go away again and find it.
what, pipi of the angels?
It was in the all the press reports, actually. I don’t know who said it, but the Gazzetta and Capo coverage referred to it. If you dig back through Capo’s archivio, you should find it.
Totally made me laugh!
That's what I thought
but I just couldn’t find it when I had a quick search earlier. Anyway, as long as someone else remembers then that’s good enough for me.
It's quite a common word in Italy
at least in cycling commentary. You hear it quite often if you watch long races on RAI. Still sounds odd to me, though.
Bio-passport
At the moment I don’t have much to add except I am now remembering that recent NYT article on the Bio-passport where it’s said that the UCI hopes that it works for a year before people learn to beat it.
Ah, the future
And somewhere in Brussels a lab is feverishly working to clone Eddy Merckx. Personally I’m for it, since I didn’t get to see him race the first time around.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe in the bio-passport, but not as a cure-all
I think the passport is a strong step in the right direction, and I agree with Chris that Basso, Scarponi, and Garzelli are pretty much on equal footing with other riders participating in the passport, as far as suspicions about current doping go.
Unfortunately, though, I think the passport, like the 50% hematocrit test and the EPO test introduced in 2001, will control doping, rather than stopping it.
Some 800 riders are participating in the passport, and according to McQuaid, the UCI is anticipating opening doping cases against somewhere between one and six riders based on their passport results. As much as I would love to believe that 99.5% of the peloton is now clean, I’m afraid that’s a bit too tough for me to swallow.
From the looks of it, the passport will catch a few idiots who fail to understand the parameters under which it is still possible to get away with doping, and if we’re lucky, it will also deter most others from hard-core blood manipulation, and perhaps, even, from doping at all.
As cynical as I am about doping, I do think the sport is cleaner now than it was a few years ago, mostly because the prevailing culture actually seems to be shifting away from the omerta of the recent past.
Catching idiots is about what I expect too
especially since McQuaid has said in the same context that he expects no big scandals in 2009, i.e. those under current suspicion are minor fish.
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
Honestly, this may be as good as we can reasonably expect...
…plus where does the line between nutrition supplements, super detailed training, etc., and doping get drawn if you can’t see the results on a Bio-Passport grid. Presumably, if you were doing something, it wouldn’t be having much of a physiological effect. So big whoop.
AKA, if it doesn't measurably enhance performance of physical capacity...
…is there any reason beyond a truly metaphysical notion of purity that we should care?
I suppose because doping is cheating?
Whereas super detailed training is not.
And if you’re going cheat a little, you’re probably the kind of person who is going to try and cheat a lot.
(Of course if people are going to waste time paying for doping programs that have little or no physiological effect, I wouldn’t care. That’s their problem, and I certainly don’t care about “purity”. I’m merely making the point that we should still try to catch cheats by methods other than the Biopassport.)
Ideally yes.
My point though, was, about what exactly ‘getting around’ biopassport would look like. I understand figuring out how to effectively cheat and get around drug tests. But if biopassport basically measures variations in the baseline performance capacity indicators of your physiology, if you’re doing something that’s not effecting those enough to register, does that actually count as getting around it? Or, if its truly ineffective, that will become obvious sooner rather than later and the market for these things will dry up.
I just can’t think of a world in which, from the point of view of anything other than really abstract moral purity, really ineffective cheating is something we should care about at all.
Okay. That was a good post, Chris.
Or at least I agree with it.
Doping. I have both Garzelli and Kloden on my VDS team. The reason I didn’t take Basso was that I was unsure what he could do more than being angry about him being a doper, or whatever legal thing he agreed to confess to. I hope the peloton these days is cleaner than before, but that hope will not by me a cup of coffee and I don’t pay attention to it all that much. I certainly am under no illusions that we will get rid of doping, not because of any omerta or whatever but because drug use is such a common thing in society at large that people in sports just don’t have this bright clean line of morality.
I look at T-A or P-N and I figure that some of the riders are doping. It’s just not a big deal to me. I’d rather have that then look at T-A and think, “Gee. Four riders just rode away from several other top ten placed riders. That makes me think of Serie A games and how I don’t know how much they are fixed.” If race fixing is happening- and I wonder a bit about that- I wonder if I have any idea that the strongest riders are winning or not. At least with doped riders they are trying to win.
Excellen thread
Just finished watching eurosport coverage of TA (on TIVO as my US brothers say or sky + for those UK based) and then went straight to this post and thread. Loved it!.
In the UK our drug tranished champion 100m sprinter is making a comeback. He just won a european indoor championship GOLD medal and noone celebrates him. HIs victory can only be reported along side his drug related past. It’s like Marion Jones winning again! The resonance with the theme of the (most excellent) post just lited off the page.
I accept Mr Chambers (said sprinter) is now clean. I just doubt whether he still benefits from a residual advantage – even after two years. He must be clean now – as he is tested above and beyond the norm.
I still celeberate the acheivements of today’s protoganonists at TA. I assume they are clean until proven otherwise. Am also glad Italy seems to be as serious about doping now as the french. Howvever, I also had the reservations expressed (when Nibali cracked there was noone “still clean” to shout for).
I still had a favourite of the three in the last 1K I wanted to win (if you not cheering , as said elsewhere, why watch at all!) But one watches with almost a sense of regret
Good cyclists – alebeit corrupted by past endeavours – no longer light your fire as they did before. (As a life long Rasmussen fan I know the disappointment. I agree with life bans – but my beliefs almost fail me when they result in never seeing him cycle again in competition)
I rest easy by remembering today’s efforts were not totally of the radar of the seemingly possible. So, hopefuly, today’s efforts were genuine and our sport may just be turning the corner.
So
you found someone to root for. I guess I was rooting for Scarponi to win, not being a Klodi fan, but if I’d thought of it I would have rooted for Garzelli. While posting I was thinking of his exclusion from the worlds… I had actually looked into his racing back then for a preview, and was about to call him my dark horse pick. He was really emotional about it (hello? Italian?) and I don’t blame him. I can’t imagine spending all those years of hard work, near but rarely in the spotlight, then hitting a solid run of form just as the world championships are coming to your very home town… and being essentially barred from taking part. That was rough. I hope he gets a spot this year.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
er
the point being, it’s possible for that old doping stain to be washed off by more recent events.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 16, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Scarponi was also a local today
his hometown is only 30-40 miles away from Camerino.
yep
I have to wonder if that played a role in Basso’s decision to drive that break at Kloden’s expense. Basso profited too, natch, since he moved up in the overall. But he did work pretty hard for Scarponi there.
That's the bit that no-one ever explains clearly to you
the way all these deals and tit-for-tats play out over the season. I wonder when we will see that one being repaid.
It probably will be at some point ;-)
I seem to recall Basso and Scarponi are friends. LOL, it won’t help Basso in the Giro, though, since Basso and Scarponi’s team mate Simoni are so not friends.
But imagine the fun there would be
if Scarponi did decide to help his matey Ivan at the expense of Simoni…..daggers at dawn! It’s all about the infighting ;-)
It seemed he did it to set up Nibali for a stage and or GC win
He spent an awful lot of time looking for him to get back on after he had blown. On TV it looked pretty clear that was a no-go but Basso didn’t seem to want to give up the idea.
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
Whilst basso smiled at the cameras
U remember the past. Any of the other two would do, Then he who did nothing won stage. If a french rsce – chapeau would be appropriate.
I've railed against dopers here and I've...
railed against HWMNBN, who’s never tested positive (although I am still seriously suspicious about his reign).
Despite full-, half- and non-confessions, these racers are back and I, for one, am looking forward to seeing the non-alien Ivan Basso (especially since he is leading my VDS team) kick some serious ass.
Tyler Hamlton and Floyd Landis are racers that I liked before their suspensions, I can’t help but want to see them race in today’s enviroment.
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
Turning a page
Hi Chris,
Sorry, but when you talk about doping, it’s fair to mention someone else and not only these three Italians. Kloden (and other Germans) for example (T-Mobile, OG 2000?), and of course Spanish riders. I think the biggest problem in cycling now is that Spanish treatment of Operation Puerto ( "Valv Piti", even Contador was mentioned there in first instance).
So, I don’t understand that need to underline, in every occasion, that some riders served their ban for doping, when there are a lot of suspicious riders in peleton :-)
Greetings,
Drad (Max011)
The sad thing is if you think Basso doped..
He must been taken dope now agaian.. Else it makes no sence why he is so good or almost so good as for his ban…
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
My take on doping is that it will give you the edge
(ie lasting longer, giving faster recovery, giving boosts in races) but it’s not going to just give you a spot at the top. To get there, you have to have some serious talent and put in some serious dedication to the sport. I think Basso was messed up in a bad scene but I’m enjoying watching his comeback as I enjoyed watching him race – and I’m not talking about the hotitude, I actually enjoyed his racing style etc. I think he was one of those that had incredible talent/skills.
This is why I get so depressed about the doping scene. Some of these guys are incredible riders and I will only be able to wish to know how talented they are/were if they had not been so stupid. They were idiots looking for a bonus when (I realize some were trying to level their chances against a mixed field of others doing it) if they had continued to develop their talent, I believe they would’ve been at that top level being cheered for in time anyway. Instead they risked their health, team, and the sport in trying to get up there on an easy route.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
It makes no snens to me..
The edge isn’t 9 minutes in a GT, or I assume? So why would he take dope?
His own statement that he would take dope because he wasn’t recovered yet from the Giro is far more plausible.. Or in my ears.
Oh received your e-mail.. Think I got your point :)
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
No way
I mean, unless he has the secret sauce that nobody can detect. The returning guys are under way more scrutiny than anyone else. There will be NO mercy if they are caught again. You don’t think Basso could ride until he got his first dose of EPO?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 17, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
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