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Around SBN: Jim Irsay: We Can Make It Work With Peyton Manning

Castille y León Stage One Post Race: Lance Hurt

Three quarters of the way thru the race, there was a big crash and Lance Armnstrong was hurt and taken viia ambulance to a hospital,  Speculation centers around a broken collarbone. 

Spain_medium Top ten results of the stage:

Results (provisional)
Joaquín Sobrino (Burgos Monumental)
2º David Vitora (Rock Racing) m.t.
3º Jose Joaquín Rojas (Caisse d’Epargne) m.t.
4º Rubén Pérez (Euskaltel-Euskadi) m.t.
5º Manuel Cardoso (Liberty) m.t.
6º Hans Dekker (Garmin) m.t.
7º Juan Fco. Mouron (Xacobeo) m.t.

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What?!?

I’m first?
Great week for me on Podium Cafe already. Who was it that said good things come in pairs?
Yesterday I saw my first fan-post make it to the PdC front page and now a first in what will probably become the longest post-race thread ever. I’m overwhelmed with joy!

by Lopex on Mar 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

From steph's post on race thread:

 from biciciclismo….

16:22: The position in which Armstrong took his right arm to climb into the ambulance, taken at an angle of 90 degrees, and the fact that it has identified the area immediately to the doctor’s shoulder, suggesting that the seven-time winner Tour has a broken collarbone . His teammate, also implicated in the fall, Thomas VAITKUS was the first closer to Lance Armstrong, but he has told you that right away there was nothing to do, to continue.

16:18: The fall has occurred in a narrow road in which many riders wanted to go ahead.. Montoneros and has been most affected has been the U.S., which has fallen on the right side of the road.

16:15. Lance Armstrong, out of the race . Ambulance will be on their own feet and not move his right arm.

by ursula on Mar 23, 2009 11:47 AM EDT reply actions  

heh

Okee, do you want me to remove my thready on this? Seemed like a separate story than the race, but I can delete…

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

keep it

I have to leave up a (sincere) expression of regret, in case I feel the need to get rolling on the snark later . . .

by Sui Juris on Mar 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

You lurker you!

Ha! Didn’t even see you! So busy multitasking I am. And I’m about to leave to do work so delete either thread. Thanks

by ursula on Mar 23, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

you can't leave until

you fix the name of the race, you heathen.

by Sui Juris on Mar 23, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Let's make this the race thready

And we’ll keep an Armstrong thready up. We can talk about it in two places and stuff.

LOL, more, the merrier, that’s what I always say!

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

from as.com

The American Lance Armstrong suffered a fall at the first stage of the Tour of Castilla and Leon and could suffer a fractured clavicle. He was evacuated to hospital Río Carrión de Palencia, where his condition is assessed.

The fall occurred at fifteen kilometers from the finish line in a stage of 141 that began in Paredes de Nava and ends in Balatanás. Armstrong went to ground in a Montoneros and could no longer stand up. The first exploration venture a broken collarbone, which is yet to confirm.

by steph- on Mar 23, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I had a suspicion this would happen...

… or maybe a premonition is more likely. I always thought that the most amazing aspect of his 7 straight tour victories, was that he managed to make it all the way across those seven years without suffering something like that. Law of averages (although I now stand back and let Lopex, Urusala and Majope throw up statistics on rider accidents vesus career length vesus qty of victories).

Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?

by crashdan on Mar 23, 2009 12:19 PM EDT reply actions  

In a way you're right

He was remarkably lucky during those 7 Tours that no one ever took him out. He’s an exceptional bike handler but as we’ve seen with other riders, that doesn’t mean you’re always safe.

If this stands up I’ll be disappointed, cause I really wanted to see him give it a go at the Giro. Hopefully he’ll still be able to partipicate.

"I didn't look for him and I didn't see him. If you base your race on another rider, most of the time you lose."

Tom Boonen

by Drew Davis on Mar 23, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

He didn't rode that many races.. And the chance you crash during a training is less..

Maybe a s ort of explanation?

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Mar 23, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

si...

And it’s also one of the reasons why he rode so few races – it made it more likely he would reach the Tour without incident.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

plus

during the tour itself he was usually surrounded by “security”

by yeehoo on Mar 23, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can't remember a recent year where

there were this many crashes and broken collar bones this early. Can you? Weird. Maybe it’s just me not paying close enough attention. But: Are guys just riding and chatting a bit much, not payiing attention? Listening to the radio too much of a distraction? Peloton getting more twitchy? I also wonder about the bike setups lately; looks like a lot of guys are going with very high/forward saddles and very low handlebars in the last year or two, which changes CG a ton and produces a different kind of fall. But I dunno.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Hmm

Seems pretty typical to me – The early season is always crash-filled. Tirreno-Adriatico is always silly dangerous, and very often there are bad crashes at Sanremo.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

True, there are always incidents and accidents and hints of allegation...

I just don’t remember quite this many. And I am very suspicious of the new bike positioning trends. It almost looks as if guys are trying to replicate their positions from their TT bikes or something, but many are riding very pointy-toed and straight-armed, high and forward. That’s my conspiracy theory for today and I’m stickin’ to it!

H/T to Paul Simon.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

H/T to Paul Simon.

And we all know what happened to Art G.

by Sui Juris on Mar 23, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, his crash in Paris-Roubaix was nasty

But they will reunite, I’ve heard

No longer that I call them tights, I call them freedom ware.

by TheFigurehead on Mar 23, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crackin' me up.

Like a faceplant on cobblestones!

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

Everyone is entitled to a little conspiracy theorying ;-)

I’m guessing it’s just that more riders you recognize have crashed this season, if that makes sense.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have to doubt it

after following it for 30 years, and lol O’Grady crashes EVERY year. But yeah possible that I’m not paying close enough attention to crashstats.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I defer to your longevity ;-)

I can’t compare it to 20 years ago, I wasn’t around.

One thing that’s definitely on the increase is the amount of road furniture and paint, as local governments introduce various traffic control measures. Those thingies lead to lots of crashing.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hah. Touche!

yes I’m getting long in the tooth. Thanks for reminding me!

And that’s a good point about road furniture.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you think about it: "Road Furniture" just sounds bad on its face.

You shouldn’t put your furniture in the road. Everybody knows that!

by Ed K on Mar 23, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cyrille Guimard in January Pro Cycling:
40 years ago, at the end of the season, in a team of 18 riders, you might have three broken collarbones. Now, it’s three broken collarbones every time eight riders go down in a single crash, or two collarbones and one wrist. No one ever talks about that….We should stop to think that in a sport where crashing is an integral part, kids don’t know how to do it. Do you ever see a crash these days without someone breaking bones?

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 23, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

I’ve broken my collarbone, and I’m still not entirely clear on how to do it well . . .

by Sui Juris on Mar 23, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Review the video of your crash in ultra-slo-mo

And you’ll be better at it next time.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting from Guimard

I tend to think it has less to do with knowing how to crash than that riders are lighter than in the past. They ride more kilometers – low bone density is a side effect of that.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adding...

I’d also say that fitness levels as a whole are higher, so you have more riders crowding the front of the race. 40 years ago, the sport was much less professionalized and fewer riders could actually contest the win.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

And half of them still smoked ciggys, even in the Merckx era!

But yeah look at the old vids and riders sat so much lower, and far less differential between saddle and handlebar height. Totally different CG and balance over the bike wheels front-to-rear. It makes a difference in how you corner, how you react, how you fall. It has to.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any chance its the way you crash with clipless pedals vs toe clips and straps?

I saw someone say that there are more ‘ejection’ style crashes now.

by Ed K on Mar 23, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It'd be interesting to see some research or something on that.

For sure. But I’m a geek for that kinda thing, it must be said. GAAH.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trackies

Since some trackies still use toe-clips that would be the place to look for recent data.

by johnw on Mar 23, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea if this was based on research or not.

I do remember reading it someplace, but I have no idea where, or honestly how well grounded the statement was.

by Ed K on Mar 23, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't think so

Unless staying attached to your bike is somehow more desirable in a crash. It’s much simpler to get out of a clipless system in a crash. (mostly automatic)

The typical collar bone break has more to do with where you put your arms when you crash.

by johnw on Mar 23, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steep banking would skew all the track data

Toe clips or not. No? And match sprints are all out war compared to road racing.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

That guy has probably forgotten more positioning knowledge and instincts

than most coaches will ever even learn. Guimard was/is an intuitive genius on this stuff. I had no idea he had been an observer on this crash/collarbone topic though.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting

I remember seeing Laurent Jalabert crash on a curve in a Tour de France time trial several years ago. As they showed a replay of the crash, Paul Sherwen pointed out that you could see Jalabert, realizing he was going down, relax his whole body so as to hit the ground in the least damaging way. Sherwen called that a mark of an experienced rider.

by Susie Hartigan on Mar 23, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I blame it on Twitter

Seems they all do it all the time, so maybe they can’t stop even during a race?

by Chief42 on Mar 23, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Twitter...

Team Astana says (as of 24 minutes ago):

Lance has arrived in the hospital and is being examined.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 23, 2009 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

This may be cold at first

Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?

by crashdan on Mar 23, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bruyneel confirms it:
Crash update on Lance from Castilla y Leon: Clean collarbone fracture without complications. Should be fast recovery. More to come.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 23, 2009 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

But it seems to be the PdC way, so what the heck.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 23, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

*shrug*

Pick one and stay with it. We sort of intended this to be the race thread, but since nothing else happened in the race, eh, we have two threads on the same thing.

Me, I didn’t feel like deleting a bunch of writing. I get tired of doing that.

by Jen See on Mar 23, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, here's the post-Stage One VDS update:

The seven teams who have Rojas got 10 points each. Champagne will be flowing tonight!

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 23, 2009 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

You may laugh

but that is 20% of what I scored on saturday, and I’ve finally broken the 600 point barrier.

by Monty. on Mar 24, 2009 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Things can only get better. Here--have a cookie.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 24, 2009 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

excellent passage from VN story:
Armstrong’s presence drew dozens of journalists to the five-day race across northern Spain, many of whom promptly left following Armstrong’s early exit.

by plinytheelder on Mar 24, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

this is our concern dude

Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.

by Jens on Mar 24, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the way...

At #6 there—“Dekkers” is plural. Like “Hans.”

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 24, 2009 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

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