ToC Doping Rumor... [Updated: the Dangers of Twitter]
by ZoeRochelle on Mar 23, 2009 2:00 PM EDT
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PrintKirk Flinte who works for a cycling company tweeted that Tyler may have tested positive at the Tour of California. The ramifications of the US Road Champ testing positive? I can't even begin to imagine. Yikes.
Edited: Kirk Flinte deleted all tweets related to the issue at approximately 12:55pm today. The original tweet read, "Tyler Hamilton positive at ToC?"
If this turns out to be false all I can say is wow. What would motivate some one to start a rumor like that?
Chris here -- We are not a source for this rumor. As ZoeRochelle makes clear, she was simply reporting on the fact that a person connected to the sport was twittering about a possible rumor. Make of it what you will, but this story is pretty close to baseless, and I think rumors like this are too explosive to go on unchecked. I will leave this fan post up because ZoeRochelle has done a good job clarifying and updating, and because the discussion below is a good example of how people should treat unfounded rumors.
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WTF?
How is the tech guy for a sportswear co breaking this story? I’ll wait on it. I can’t believe Tyler would be so stupid.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 2:07 PM EDT reply actions
Hincapie Sportswear was the official jersey supplier for the ToC. (I know you know that.)
I’m just speculating as to why he would know. All we can do now is wait.
Don't tell me he left EPO syringes in the pockets of the Courageous-Snuggie?
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
Maybe so
But I’d rather hear this from a medical source, or enforcement people.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely agree that this has BS rumormongering all over it
I can’t come up with a reason at all why dude should know this
Wow, that is solid information.
Kill Twitter! Kill it now. Kill it hard.
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
Well, to be a little fairer
The tweet ends with a question mark. So I’d call it more a repetition of rumour, at best.
(No bag carrying for Tyler, but really, I can’t imagine that he would be that stupid.)
And if so, he needs to get better quality drugs next time.
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
I haven't seen it elsewhere. Check out Kirk Flinte's next comment though.
I hope the doubters will now be convinced.
Wow
If vandevelde doesn’t win the tour this year…is cycling in america dead [/snark]
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Ah yes, bronchitis
I guess he didn’t want to re-use the tummy ache excuse he used when he left the Vuelta after testing positive there.
by Susie Hartigan on Mar 23, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
THey need
to install that cross-examination app, then I’ll feel better.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I really hate this kinda "rumor" crap
If it should prove true he should be done for good. But…..a jersey supplier breaks the news? My gawd what has it all come to.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
I for one trust Hincapie Sports implicity
mainly because they provided me, indirectly, with my ToC VIP pass (thanks again!)…. If they say it’s true, that is good enough for me! Burn Hamilton! Burn the witch!
More Muur...
You
are bought cheaply. I at least hold out for dinner and a movie.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The VIP pass
came with all the beer/wine and cheese I could consume. I have done much more for much less, my friend…
More Muur...
Does he weigh more than a chicken?
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
No, I think he meant chicken.
And they look pretty close to me (close your eyes if you’re sensitive—this won’t be pretty):
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
half price, on account
of how little ink was required.
~
I keep looking for Sally in the background, telling us how little it costs to feed the starving . . .
That says
“I have a tattoo!”
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
That reminds me
Did Chickenman actually ever test positive? I can’t remember.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks. That's what I thought.
That’s damning circumstantial evidence for sure, but convicted by kneejerk jury and press without actual proof. Amazing what passes for justice in this doping political clusterfcuk.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure it wasn't part of the case
but don’t forget the guy who said the chicken tried to get him to smuggle blood substitute in a shoe box.
The rule they got Rasmussen on, as far as I know, is the “three missed tests=one positive” rule. You don’t think that’s a valid way to proceed? If not, how would you suggest they handle multiple missed tests?
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
No, I don't think that's enough, it has to be black and white.
The missed tests were not event tests I believe, they were “we couldn’t find him today” missed tests. Positives are proof. Event tests are tough to beat now, and if guys are passing event tests you cannot convict for doping simply because you could not find them today for an out of comp test, especially considering the passport protocols. Yes you and I both know Ras was prolly on the juice but there really does have to be some black and white justice. Because, meanwhile we are losing many junior future pro racers who just ain’t up for reporting their whereabouts every day for 20 years, and having testers show up at their homes at all hours, just for the thrill of beiing a bike racer, and still maybe you lose your living even though there is no proof you have ever doped.
Hang the proven cheats, but keep basic justice on a pedestal, that’s my belief. Same for everyone.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions
The Chicken took flight
and kept going. Was enough for me.
That aside:
meanwhile we are losing many junior future pro racers who just ain’t up for reporting their whereabouts every day for 20 years,
You really think so?
I sure do!
Being a bike racer when you grow up was already pretty unattractive career choice to begin with, lol. Getting worse every day too!
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
But the same will apply for all athletes, not just cyclists
(I’m not counting the joke-sports like football, soccer, baseball, hockey, wrestling and basketball)
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
Yes we will lose a lot of future greats in those sports too.
Not to mention that the ridiculous costs of the testing programs will make some leagues/sports/events/teams not financially workable especially at the grassroots levels. There are always unintended consequences to this kinda stuff.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
You can argue at will for a future change of the rules
But no one can say Ras got a raw deal. He signed on to the current set of rules. He then screwed up his whereabouts-responsibilities in just about every conceivable way. Misfiling info, failing to be where he should, lying repeatedly when asked direct questions and so on.
I can sympathize with the view that the whereabouts system borders on draconian but to argue that what Ras got wasn’t justice has no merit with me.
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
I can agree that
he did every stupid thing he could possibly do to fcuk himself royally!
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
missed tests = told them an entirely different country
Over a period of what, a couple-three weeks? It’s not like, “the train was late and I didn’t have cell phone reception.” He sent them chasing his ass—and their tails—someplace that he fairly clearly never intended to be. Meanwhile, he was “riding black” someplace else.
actually he tested positive for
DynEOP (sp.?) But it’s not on the list so no sanction.
So the question should been: Did he ever test positive for a banned substance.
Reminds me of the phrase...
“…pigeon chested little tosser”
Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?
I knew it rang untrue
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
aw come on
no one gets the reference? “small stones!”
by plinytheelder on Mar 23, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why it rang untrue when I wrote "chicken", it's "duck" Sir Bedevere
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
And here I was giving you credit for deliberately changing it to chicken...
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
I'm not clever, just senile
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
very small rocks..
A newt?
..well, I got better..
by Christopher See on Mar 23, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Criminy
I agree with everyone who said they couldn’t imagine Tyler being so stupid. I really agree with that. To have won the US Pro jersey, come full circle pretty much, and then continue to dope? Defies all worldly logic. If this is true he should not only be banned forever from cycling, but should also be forced to be run over by a full-sized peloton. this would also lend insight into why Haven and he split up. Perhaps she couldn’t take the lies any more?
Run over by the peloton?
Hell, if it’s true, they should just go ahead and donate his organs—he’d have to be brain dead to dope again.
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
I didn't realize that his marraige blew up
When did that happen?
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
I think that the final stuff happened last fall.
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
This is just so hard to consider!
You honor your heroes when you feel they are redeemed and then you’re forcefed this potentially horrible news? It really is almost too much to take. Really hoping that it isn’t true!
Sooo...has anyone here with a Twitter account contacted Kirk Flinte
and asked him how he knows? It’s starting to spread in other cycling blogs, with the source being this thread. It would be really nice to know if it’s true.
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
See, wearing my 'person who teaches critical reasoning' hat...
This has ‘loaded question’ all over it. You know, one of those classic, well, “Do we know for sure that the President isn’t a communist?” sorts of questions. It just rings every alarm I have in terms of, “well I didn’t say it was true” smear campaign tactics. Meaning without some evidence, any evidence, it sits very badly with me.
Just a pre-emptive clarification.
I did not mean to suggest the above about ZoeRochelle’s post, but rather about this ‘website manager’ who passed this around in the first place sans any backup in the form of a question. Once it gets out, yes it needs to be posted for discussion and critical assessment.
Good luck to him with that
I’d suspect anyone in a position to know is bound by so many confidentiality rules that saying one word to that dude = lawsuit waiting to happen.
Positive again?
I would really hate to hear that be the case.
How is Rock Racing racing in Spain anyway?
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
Second Place...
…by David Vitoria was in was today’s stage. The race just started today.
by Chief Commissaire on Mar 23, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
FYI, original tweet has disappeared.
I’m thinkin’ he was wrong, and is gonna be lucky if he’s not in some serious trouble before this is done.
The problem with CGM
Kirk Flint is learning that even though he only has 68 actual followers, there are many more people out there ’watching."
Let this be a lesson to the rest of us that when we put something up onto the net, we will be held accountable to our statements whether we like it or not.
I know I learned that lesson long ago: http://www.europeloton.com/2008/07/christian-vande-velde-targets-tour-de.html
It took me months to recover from some of the comments that article incited! ;-P
Oh come on.... I was so not THAT hard on you! ha ha ha ha!!!! LOL!
"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."
Do I need to remind you what nationality that tweet was?
Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.
But they have beautiful plumage!
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
meh
These “industry insider” types need to be careful. A friend told me that… That doesn’t really cut it on an issue like this. The internet is public discourse. Sheesh, welcome to 1995 and stuff.
Not a huge fan of Hamilton but Kirk whatsit acted like a dumbass here, even if in the end, USADA confirms the story.
Well said.
Too late for “more careful” for that guy though.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
If I'm that dude I'm basically pissing myself wondering if George isn't gonna de-job me for...
…publicly embarrassing the company by more or less slandering the current wearer of the US Champ’s jersey. Honestly, you’re dead on that this was a guy being like look I’m an insider I’m so cool and basically totally failing the use your brain test.
He's obviously aware of the boo-boo.
Changed his name on Twitter, deleted his Facebook page, and his blogs on Hincapie Sportswear website are gone as well. Unless the last means the company has already booted him? I know—let’s start a rumor!
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
Goner.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
And really, deservedly so.
This is inexcusable on the ’don’t shit where you eat’ front in any case, but from a director of internet communications or whatever his title was, its gross incompetence
Eh
I’d say it doesn’t bode well for his future casual conversations. I’d feel a little bad about a person saying something offhandedly and losing his job.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Twitter on this level isn't saying something offhandedly Chris...
It’s attaching your name, and your identity including that of your employer to something explosive about a public figure. If it was substantial enough as an event for ZoeRochelle to report it here, and I agree that it was, then it was hardly just ‘saying something offhand casually’ and if dude, Mr. Corporate Internet Guy of all people, didn’t know that, then I’d say that’s a major problem.
Yes...
Except that twittering is more than saying something offhandedly. It’s published speech, that spreads very rapidly.
OK Ok
I’m just being a softie. Carry on.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Chris.
I say lots of dumb crap, only realize it’s dumb later.
by plinytheelder on Mar 23, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
well
Except that twittering is more than saying something offhandedly. It’s published speech, that spreads very rapidly.
That’s because we’re old. Heh. That line isn’t so obvious to all, I think. This is good for lots of drunken (and otherwise) discourse on the subject of the Unified Life.
Indeed
The most I’ll say about this is, I don’t have to learn this lesson a second time. But today’s events were a tad startling. We’re shattering our non-July traffic record. I think we’ve doubled our tally from the day Ullrich and Basso got booted from the Tour start. Not sure how this stacks up with Landis-gate-day.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
we? speak for yourself kemosabe
oh the use of kemosabe was probably not good here, wait wait
we? speak for yourself dude
"but tonto he was smarter . .. "
"he said kiss my ass [kemosabe]
I bought a boat and I’m going out to sea"
I was wondering the same thing. If I were George I would
run that lil asshole thru the meatgrinder in a big hurry. Unreal.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
He screwed up
Am guessing he knows it, and is writing lots of apologies today.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He should tweet an apology too then!
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I heard he already has
but that is as unconfirmed and unsubstantiated as the original tweet.
by australopithecine on Mar 23, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He really should TBH
B/c the completely defenseless person here, and this needs to be said, is Hamilton. Once something like this gets out rumor wise, its impossible to kill. Which is why its important to repeat here, over and over again, that its baseless until proven otherwise.
+2
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Mar 23, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
2 be honest
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahahahahahaha
I thought Tyler’s middle name was Barbara, and you forgot how to do grammar.
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Just deleted...
a mini-thread on who else is rumored to be saying something. I think we’ve had enough heresay for today.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 23, 2009 8:59 PM EDT reply actions
Here we go again!
It now appears that some people could possibly be that stupid. Kirk Flinte turns out to be a reliable source.
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