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Armstrong's surgery "a challenge"

Just saw this AP story on the Minneapolis Startribune website.

Armstrong's surgeon calls the surgery "a challenge," and rates it an eight on a difficulty scale of one to ten.  The collarbone was in four pieces, and the surgeon inserted a plate and twelve screws.

Yikes!  That does not sound good.  I really wonder about the likelihood of him being in any shape to start the Giro in six weeks.  After all, it's not like this year's Giro course offers a week of easy stuff before the real racing begins.

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Um

Whoa. That doesn’t sound promising. At this point, every second counts in his prep, so if this costs him a week of further recovery, he’s skrewwwwed.

Those 20 points for Levi aren’t looking so expensive anymore.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 25, 2009 6:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

uh oh

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 25, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What,

you’re not going to feed the cats today?

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 25, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Already did that, silly

As if they would let me get away with ignoring them ;-)

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

Interesting spin from Bruyneel on this, then, in his early reports, when he called it an “uncomplicated fracture.” I’d think it would be pretty hard to miss a four-part fracture.

Six weeks. Interesting to see if he makes the Giro start. Certainly, this puts an end to his GC hopes, if he had them.

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Reverse-sandbagging

Can’t blame him for trying.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 25, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what spin? when was the spin? based on which initial information?

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Mar 25, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

based on it being hard to miss a 4-part fracture?

Actually, pretty possible to miss that (depending how close the breaks are to each other, and whether they all are full breaks).

by JFS_PGH on Mar 26, 2009 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

took several mri/ct to spot all the breaks from what i've read...

hopfully optimistic the rpts i’ve read regarding a giro start

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Mar 26, 2009 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

But think of the polemica that could have ensued:

“You made him look fat!”

“He doesn’t have that many wrinkles!”

“Is that shadow in the background supposed to be Dr. Ferrari?”

by Tifosa on Mar 25, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Maybe we could get a guest graphic from the Toto people ;-)

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why you need to reuse the Doonsbury George W Bush graphic...

Cowboy hat floating in thin air. Just add a livestrong bracelet and you’re there.

by Ed K on Mar 25, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ooooooooooooooo

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if you think about it...

‘He who must not be named’ surely can’t be seen either.

Just saying.

by Ed K on Mar 25, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perfect.

"I ride my bicycle to ride my bicycle." - Zen proverb

by Ruthann on Mar 25, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A serious question

Levi is slated to start the Giro, but is slated to take it seriously? Or just get in his miles? This is a little better than being yanked off the beach, but he might want to ramp it up a bit.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 25, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The last thing I read

said that he was also planning to not be around at the finish because his girlfriend is due to give birth some time around then. Maybe he should have just joined in with the Amore e Vita on their pre-Giro ride of the Giro course instead.

by Monty. on Mar 25, 2009 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"he" being lance, not levi

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Mar 25, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

I saw the big L and just didn’t bother reading the rest of the name. Such is life for the little L.

by Monty. on Mar 25, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I, for one,

was going to be terribly impressed that LL had a girlfriend.

by Sui Juris on Mar 25, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have you ever seen

Odessa?

LL’s wife is a major hottie.

by R Mc on Mar 25, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

which is I why I was going to be so impressed if he had a girlfriend, too.

by Sui Juris on Mar 25, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good question

After all, Levi did the Giro last year, and finished an anonymous 18th on GC, 45 minutes down on Contador’s time.

He’s been holding good form since the Tour of California. How likely is it that he can hold that kind of form until the end of May?

by Tifosa on Mar 25, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big ask

It isn’t easy to re-plan the season like that. But not totally out of the question either.

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And just to be Levi Overkill

He was always planning on doing the Giro. His plan was California, Paris-Nice, Castile and Leon, Pais Vasco and nothing until the Giro. Then Dauphine and Tour.

Doesn’t sound like a back breaking schedule to me.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

but can he line up his peak for the Giro? Levi seems a little fragile in that he really has to be careful about staying in his plan for the peak to occur in a three-week race. I think part of his love for Astana is that they have him on a relatively strict program to take advantage of this, and he’s been the best Levi he can be as a result. Unlike young, awesome Contador, though, a change of direction might not work out so well for Levi.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 25, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tend to think you're right

that he does best with a predictable training plan. He does well at hitting his peak when he’s s’posed to. I don’t know, he has six weeks to prepare and he’s on decent form right now. Not out of the question, just maybe not ideal for his style of training. Interesting to see how it works out for him actually. May add an interesting subplot to the race. I’m all about subplots.

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point and

yes I am biased for my 20 pointer but I for one never thought that Lance was gonna be the actual leader for Astana in Italy. On top of that this is an entirely different situation than last year’s Astana invite of a week before the race. Again Levi has known since I don’t know- January? that he’d be at the Giro. He’ll have plenty of time to scout out the course- though of course we won’t hear about it from the press since it’s Levi we’re talking about. So I don’t get this change in direction meme.

Levi should be the best chronoman in the race- and, no, I don’t believe it when an inferior chronoman like Cunego says the 61 km TT will not favor someone like Levi. He should put a few minutes into most of his competitors there. And I haven’t seen him doing at all poorly at any climb lately…

Finally look at the GC contenders this year, all of ‘em, regardless of if they are racing the Giro or not. Contador is #1. Who’s #2? Maybe Basso but if not him then Levi has as good a claim as any of the others- with only Evans maybe being in his class. Cunego? There’s no comparison- levi’s way better. Di Luca? lol. Simoni? maybe.

Do I think Levi will win the Giro? probably not on this the centennial of the race. The Italians will have it out for him. But a podium spot looks likely to me.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Basso will not be that good.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep. A cipher, Basso is.

I would love to see him really test himself before the Giro but as far as I can tell from his schedule, I don’t see a major race that he’s pointing to beforehand.

In his favor though is that he’ll have a real good team behind him in May. Best team out there I think. Nibali, Jennifer Grey, Noe (he’s not dead yet!), etc.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Save Ferris!

Nibali is skipping it this year – said two grand tours in a row was too much for him. Wuss ;-)

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh right!

Forgot that. the kids, Nibali and Kreuziger, to the Tour. Still, they will have a good team.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

si

Good team and kids to the Tour. I’m looking forward to seeing both of those guys in July.

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who is Jennifer Grey?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

by tedvdw on Mar 25, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

welcome!

Do play with the search function—it answers startling number of questions. Also the lexicon cheat sheet here…and the photographic proof thread [wink]. And anything really incomprehensible and gratuitously rude? Probably a movie quote, from a select few favorites. Enjoy, stay, put up your feet and rest a while.

by JFS_PGH on Mar 26, 2009 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I want to ammend the lexicon

Doodsmak does not literally mean “make dead.” The two words contained in there aren’t doods and mak (which, to mean ‘make’, would have to be maak) but dood (death/deadly or generic amplifier) and smak (smack/thwack or badly ending fall). Deadly drop, killer crash, slaying slid, horrific header, terminal tumble.

by tedvdw on Mar 26, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ooh

that’s even better!

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 26, 2009 3:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

So it really does mean what it sounds like it means. Smak!

by gavia on Mar 26, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

making the point...

that we don’t use it towards each other here (unlike many groups). This is an intentionally civil and rational and chummy place. BUT one could get the wrong idea, reading certain threads.

by JFS_PGH on Mar 26, 2009 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

Don’t worry about me. I think PC is a nice compromise between anarchic and fun but less and less popular Usenet and most message boards which are very restrictive.

by tedvdw on Mar 26, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you that this isn't a change... or shouldn't be.

The comparison with last year is screwy. They got an invite one week before the race, having been told before more or less no way. AC’s adjustment to that was astonishing, but the fact that Levi did reasonably, even working as a domestique, on the GC says an awful lot (remember there was no question fairly early who the Astana GC guy for that race was). I think this clarifies things, but hardly changes them considerably.

by Ed K on Mar 25, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well there's always kloden

we always forget about poor kloden

by yeehoo on Mar 26, 2009 6:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We don't forget, we choose to ignore

(we= I , the royal we)

Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.

by Jens on Mar 26, 2009 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

damn,

my we was only the editorial we

by yeehoo on Mar 26, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Difference between peaking and overall quality

I mean since California we have seen him… only this week in Spain where he produced what is for him a normal TT result. I don’t in any way see that he’s peaking now, just because he’s better than his competitors.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 to this too.

And no. I cannot believe I’m defending the honor of the peanut. Shoot me now.

by Ed K on Mar 25, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

hwere I am all of a sudden a Levi Apologist. Gives me shivers.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think another issue for Levi

could be whether, in Armstrong’s absence, Bruyneel would be willing to send a strong team of support riders to the Giro.

Bruyneel’s history of keeping not only Armstrong, but also Armstrong’s top Tour domestiques, out of the Giro demonstrates that he is not a believer in the Giro as good prep for the Tour. Even in 2005, he sent Savoldelli, a former champion, to the Giro with a B-team (at best).

Sure, last year’s Astana Giro team was A-list, but that’s because (a) Bruyneel knew the team wasn’t doing the Tour, and (b) Zomegnan apparently conditioned the last-minute invite on the presence of Contador and other top riders.

This year, heading into the Tour after a year’s absence, and with the world’s current top grand tour rider on the team (not to mention Armstrong), will Bruyneel really be willing to send a top-level squad to the Giro to support Levi?

by Tifosa on Mar 25, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Levi Apologist Answers

I don’t have the complete team but Bazayev, Horner, Brajkovic, Lance, Noval, Popovych, and Paulinho are names that I remember. I’d call it their B+ squad. Not as good as what Liquigas will bring, but probably as good or better than the rest of the teams.

Ultimately Levi’s possible success depends on if he’s willing to give it 90 or 100%. I don’t think we’ll have the answer to that until the race is mostly over.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, but

that’s the team that will likely be going if Armstrong is there.

My question is whether, if Armstrong passes on the Giro, Bruyneel would still send that many top guys to support Levi. Bruyneel doesn’t seem to care much about the Giro, and frankly, he doesn’t seem to care all that much about Levi. The team Bruyneel would be willing to send for Armstrong may not be there if Armstrong passes on the race.

by Tifosa on Mar 25, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't think

that LA has ever been a serious leader for the Giro.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Tifosa's right, then if I were Levi I'd be like FU Johann ASAP.

Which is why I think ELVISG’s point is good. Levi could be a serious leader for Giro, and why doesn’t Astana want to win another grand tour, someone remind me?

by Ed K on Mar 25, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

because

they hate animal rescue . . .

by R Mc on Mar 26, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You might be right, Tifosa.

We’ll just have to see. Does Bruyneel care enough about the Giro and Levi? I agree with Goat that Levi was always the leader but if lance completely misses the Giro maybe Bruyneel cuts back his troops more.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not noval, chechu

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Mar 26, 2009 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

I hadn’t thought of that, but certainly you’re right that it’s been the pattern.

by gavia on Mar 25, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Levi was always gopnna be Astana's #1 at the Giro

So says I, the VDS buyer of the little dwarf.

by ursula on Mar 25, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

but I still couldn’t put him on my team… he’s growing on me though.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the screws and plates are actually a really good thing

and they speed up healing, a lot, because bones are aligned and stabilized right from the get go.

Having had a multiple upper arm fracture last May, (among other breaks), and opting out of surgery for plates and screws, (Gawd knows why I did THAT), I can tell you that letting the bones set themselves over a period of weeks is a much slower and way more painful process. Every move you make, every breath you take, you FEEL it. He is better off with the plates/screws and will be back on the bike sooner.

H/T Sting; Police

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 25, 2009 6:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Did you have a

spider on your arm?

by Sui Juris on Mar 25, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah!

No my arm was attached to my body which was sitting in a carseat which was in a car which got in a battle with physics and lost hugely.

But if there had been a spider on it, the result could have been easily the same.

"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."

by Rolls on Mar 25, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ouch

hope it healed well

I guess it means you can predict weather for the rest of your life

everytime I hear injury stories, I descend even slower than the day before

formerly known as cyclingchallenge

by Willj on Mar 26, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bummer.

Though I have gotten religion on LA, I still hate to see this happen. I was looking forward to him ripping it up soon, maybe even a stage win.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 7:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow... Lance got totally screwed.

Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?

by crashdan on Mar 25, 2009 7:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that is REALLY screwed

like C.tv dependability screwed.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Full Astana press release

Lance Armstrong’s Clavicle In Four Pieces / Succesful Surgery

March 25, 2009 – Austin, TX – Lance Armstrong had successful surgery today to repair what doctors originally thought was a "simple" fracture of his clavicle (more commonly referred to as the collarbone). "This was not correct," said Dr. Doug Elenz, an Austin orthopedic surgeon who frequently operates on athletes. "It was not in two, but four pieces." Dr. Elenz, along with another surgeon and physician’s assistant, used a five inch stainless steel plate with 12 screws to repair Armstrong’s fracture. He noted that this was more than they would normally use, but necessary based on the extent of the fracture.

Armstrong would not spend the night in the hospital but soon be taken to his home here in Austin to recuperate. In terms of rehabilitation, the doctor wants Armstrong to take it easy for a week to let the wound heal, then start back into aerobic training using some form of stationary exercise bike so as not use his upper extremities, and then they’d see about getting back on the road.

As expected, many of the questions revolved around when Armstrong would be able to be back on the bike training, if not racing. "Normally we see 8-12 weeks for something like this to heal completely," Dr. Elenz said, stressing the word "completely". He went on to say that it would be a day-by-day, week-by-week, and month-by-month progression as they first looked for radiographic union (evidence of bone growth), a stable fracture with no plate movement, increased arm motion and fluidity, and Armstrong’s own pain factor. While Dr. Elenz would not give a firm date on when he expected Armstrong to return to racing, he said that it will heal and he needs to give it time so he can get back to racing.

by steph- on Mar 25, 2009 7:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Note to self

Don’t take medical advice from JB.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 25, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

biggest setback in his cycling career?

Not, you know, the big C? Think he’ll be rephrasing that in a few days?

by JFS_PGH on Mar 26, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow...from the Strib!

That has to be a first for this site. I linked to a Strib story once but that’s about it.

by plinytheelder on Mar 26, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lance hiting the big time!

Yesterday he was mentioned in the sports news on my local radio morning show (the only non hockey news). Specifically that he broke his collarbone in a bicycle race in Spain, but that his coach believes he will still be able to contest his 8th tour de france victory in July.

Then this morning he is mentioned in the celebrity gossip section of the same show. Specifically, they were mocking him for twittering throughout his entire surgery.

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 26, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

not realizing that la wasn't doing the twittering of course

"Wizard's first rule. People are stupid. They will believe anything they want to be true or fear to be true." -- Terry Goodkind

by umwolverine on Mar 26, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is a long list

of what they didn’t realize

"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten

by Hons on Mar 26, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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