Glued my first tubiessssss (sorry glue stuck to the s key..)
I have been wanting a 3rd wheelset for my 2 road bikes and have always wanted sew-ups (for reasons I can't explain). I picked up a set of Campy Barcelona rims laced to Record 10 hubs. Real beauties, and a good price. For tires I asked around an settled on Conti Sprinters. Lots of Vittoria fans out there but they are not cheap, and the couple sets of Vittoria clinchers I have owned were ok, but I prefer Vredenstein, Hutchinson and Conti's for feel and durability.
Anyhow, I prepped the rims by cleaning with alcohol and then I applied a base layer of glue to tire and rim an let sit for 24 hours. For some reason I was thinking it would brush on nice and smooth, however the cement set up pretty quickly and to say it went on gloopy would be an understatement. Some sites said to add a second base coat of glue to the rim and then the 3rd final coat, but others I talked to said 2 coats is fine. I applied the second coat to rim and tire and stretched the tire over the rim (no easy chore). I though the valve stem was perpendicular when I slid it through, but it was far from it, by the time the tire was seated. Also the base tape wasn't exactly even, but I thought it was ok. I pumped up the tires to about 130 psi and put in the old frame I was using for the job on the work stand and spun them. hop hop hop.... So I tried to rework the tires, but the glue sets up fast and that's it.
I checked with some sew up buddies and they instructed me to break the seal, and re-do. Being a perfectionist (ok being a level 5 obsessive compulsive type) I couldn't live with a shoddy job, plus round wheels are fast wheels, and these suckers weren't round. I must say with the help of a very stiff tire lever, removing the tire 18 hours later wasn't as horrendous as I thought it would be. Also, despite the dried glue residue, brushing on some fresh stuff was relatively painless too. The final grunt as you stretch the tire over the rim still, sucks, but since I only added a coat of glue to the rim, it wasn't quite as messy. Also, the first time around I used latex gloves and they created more of a problem than they prevented as they ripped easily and left refuse on the rim and tire (picked away during the second gluing). Anyhow, the tires are on, the valve stem is perpendicular, and they look to be pretty close to perfect. There is some glue on the sidewalls and he rims, but I can live with that.
What a mess, but now I feel more complete as a wrench. Hope to ride them this week and report back.
Pete
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my teammates are ruthless
first glue job in 10 years left plenty of glue visible on the tire casing (and to make matters worse, it’s the white Tubasti stuff).
My glue job has become a running joke on race weekends. My poor tubies, the only wheels on the team with visible glue. Of course, I know that only one of my teammates actually does his own glue jobs.
I’m currently in the market for a rear hub to finish a new tubie wheelset: 25 year old Ambrosio montreal rims. The front wheel feels great. I just need a rear hub.
I was looking for Montreal's myself
but settled for the Barcelona’s. Built with record hubs, brand new $325. Tough to pass up. Very light too. With the tubies, the bike is about a half pound lighter than my velocity aerohead clinchers (and those aren’t exactly boat-anchors.
by Peter Fontecchio on Mar 29, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
"always wanted sew-ups (for reasons I can't explain)"
I can explain it…
You wanted to challenge your mechanical abilities by taking your self-wrenching skeelz up a notch while at the same time enlarging your service course while at the same time taking pride in a time honored tradition of old-world skill and craftsmanship (that is under-appreciated) and finally arrive at a point of self-pleasure in a world where your buddies are riding pre-fabbed, carbone this and hollowed-dimpled that and you can show up on race day with warm glow in your heart and a sly, knowing grin of satisfaction on your face that says…“I ride my own wheels.”
Chapeau, man!
Re: Conti Sprinters? Outstanding choice! They are the bomb-shizzle!
right click, refresh
Indeed
Well put.
And Sprinters: currently on my backup wheels but only til the team-sponsored ones on my new wheels give out prematurely. I’ve gone through a pair a year.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Mar 29, 2009 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks
somehow as a techie type my past couple years have seen me purchase 2 sets of handbuilts, remove all the carbon from my CAAD8, switch from a mag trainer to rollers, and now try my hand at sew ups, I also spent more than a few minutes talking myself out of building up an old lugged Pinarello frame hanging in the basement. What’s next Campy Delta brakes and a System U kit? I’m becoming curiously retro.. Maybe it’s some strange mid life thingie..
by Peter Fontecchio on Mar 29, 2009 7:36 PM EDT reply actions
I've got some
simplex retro-friction levers sitting in the garage parts bin should you need to complete the picture . . .
btw . . . short version of 808 test: average watts for one hour interval workout (I think it was 15 minute tempo or 6 min +1) with flashpoint 60s on bike: 245. Average watts for same workout w/808s: 212.
(Comparison done after the fact w/iBike3 analysis: the 808s were on the bike, but the profile loaded into the ibike was for the FPs. After doing the calibration runs for the 808s, I was able to switch the data after the fact. Them dimples (and the fact that Zipp builds wheels with 100kg tension on front and drive-side rear spokes) aren’t the only reason that some pre-built wheels simply are better for racing. (And . . . it’s worth pointing out that a lot of high-end wheels are hardly machine-made: all of the top end Shimano wheels are hand-built too).
so any of you retro er uh geeks...
want an old Suntour GPX 7 speed downtube setup w Superb Pro crankset, 53-39? It’s a full groupset less wheels at this point. Also have a set of Mavic GP-4 sewup laced to Durace 8….
Just a thought
by Christopher See on Mar 30, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
still ride with a 4 inch drop from saddle
to bars. Can’t reach the drops to save my life, but what the heck…
by Peter Fontecchio on Mar 29, 2009 8:30 PM EDT reply actions
Tubular Glue info
I posted this before, but I really think this information is the best, and I do mean, the best place I have ever found to gain insight on what glue is actually the best to use and the most effective way to use it –
Tubular Tire Adhesive Performance
Tape
I love the tape. Never had a problem, and I brake too much and take stupid lines. Sacrilege, I know, but it’s so clean, fast, and easy.
-Cosmo
http://cyclocosm.com
Head down, elbows out since 2005
I've never heard of anyone
having their tire roll off while on Tufo tape. I use it and love it, and it couldn’t possibly be any easier. No way I’m messing with glue.
by kos on Apr 1, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone actually had a tire roll
off a rim while riding (besides Joseba Beloki)? Is this more common than a blowout on a clincher?
by Peter Fontecchio on Mar 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions
there's a french track mech
laying low in Poland:
http://beta.velonews.com/photo/gallery/89933
Still, rolling a tubie is fairly rare (knocks wood . . .) and . . . it’s also possible to roll a clincher after a flat or blow-out.
I know just removing a tire after about 20 hours was a real bear
so My guess is after it really has some time to set up it must be a pretty solid bond. I’ll ride them this weekend and put some good efforts in them before I do any crits.
by Peter Fontecchio on Mar 30, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
y'know
I don’t think you can really blame the mech for Beloki’s tire rolling. I replayed that crash multiple times—and despite Beloki doing almost everything wrong (inside leg down in the corner, locking up the front wheel), the amazing thing is that he almost saved it—until he slammed that rear wheel back down at an angle which pried the tire off the rim.
There's one thing I don't understand.
The thing I don’t understand is every motherf***in’ word you’re saying.
Dude... why WOULDN'T Thor ride the chicken?
I've always wondered
What happens if you get a puncture with a tub if you’re out on a ride, and you don’t have a team car with a nice new wheel?
Do you have to carry glue and a spare tub around with you?
Yes, or a cell phone.
Tubies supposedly never pinch flat, but they can still cut and puncture like a regular tire. My friends that ride them bring a spare tire with a base layer of glue on it. I didn’t buy a spare yet (but will), but my plan is to really only use them for racing and shorter training rides near home.
by Peter Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely carry the spare
Desperate tubular users without spares are hard to help.
“Do you ride tubulars?” No. “Do you have a needle and thread and a patch kit?” No needle and thread, sorry. “Can I borrow a tube then?” I gave him the tube, and still have no idea what he was going to do with it.
actually
changing a tubie on the road is easier than changing a clincher on the road. Take the flatted tire off, put the spare on, inflate and go. Just don’t go bombing through corners. All you really have to carry is a spare tire or two (or, as below, maybe a can of sealant . . .)
The trouble comes when you try to patch the flatted tire. Although thanks to sealants, even that can be easier these days.
Good point on the sealant.
Do you ever apply some as a preventative? And yes I could see a tubie being a quick tire change as long as you have a good sturdy tire lever.
I can change a flat on a clincher in <4 minutes in a rush, but to do it right, you really need to inspect the tire for those tiny little shards of glass that caused the flat in the first place otherwise you will be changing it again shortly.
by Peter Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
don't need no stinkin' levers
And you don’t have to spend time searching for what caused the flat—which IS an essential step, because 8 times out of 10, what caused the flat is still in the tire . . .
I think I will start injecting some sealant in my everyday tubulars, once I finish building the rear.
A couple of Fridays ago, whilst on my warm-up ride for the weekend’s races, I flatted the front tire. It held enough air to ride home on (pumped it up a couple of times—and this is another advantage of tubies and tubeless clinchers over standard clinchers—you can sort of ride a flat).
Anyway, got home, took the tire off the rim, glued up another, and set the flatted tire aside. Got back from racing, and Monday inflated the flatted tire and stuck it in the pool to see where the leaks were coming from. 2 tiny holes.
Thought: hmm . . . I bet sealant would work better here than trying to patch the tube (been there, done that a lot back in the day—I know my way around a thick thimble . . .). Took flat tire up to shop (less than a mile away . . .), squeezed in sealant, inflated—seemed to hold. Came home, stretched sealed tire on rim, inflated . . . and it’s holding air really well.
So, yeah, sealant works.
So, are you suggesting
putting sealant in the tubular from the get go?
I’m interested in this, cuz I’ll be unretiring my road bike later this year and I was going to relace my showroom new Mavic Open Pros to whatever new hub I end up getting…but they’d be my only rideable wheels. I don’t race no mo.
right click, refresh
Two suggestions:
1. Convert the open pros to tubeless (actually pretty easy: two layers of stan’s yellow tape per rim, insert valve stem, install tires—which currently are limited to Hutchinson Fusion2 tubeless, but more are coming to market soon—inject sealant, then ride. I converted my dt 1.1s last June and have really liked ’em. (So much that I also converted my Flashpoint60s to tubeless . . .). Ride quality is AMAZING. Cornering is good.
I have seen and felt (because the sealant sprayed my calves) a couple of times where the sealant stopped a flat, and not seen a bunch more. (You only find out about those when it comes time to install a new tire). Another advantage for tubeless: you cannot pinch flat them. You’ll break the rim first.
Limitations: the sealant won’t seal everything, so you still need to carry a spare tube for those times when a barrete bayonets your tire (happened to me). Longevity: the Fusion2 is good for about 2200 miles on a rear wheel. And when it starts to deteriorate, it deteriorates fast (note to tire-makers: I really don’t like those multi-rubber extrusions because they ALWAYS fail at the rubber junctures.) And they’re sorta expensive tires.
2. In fact . . . comparing longevity to price is what is leading me back to tubulars. (That and my dt 1.1s are starting to get worn out, so I was gonna need to re-build anyway). Retail on the Fusion2s is around $65, retail on conti gatorskin sprinters about $75. (I know there are cheaper sources for both, but we’ll talk retail for comparison).
So . . . 2200 miles or so at $65 a tire versus 3000+ at $75. Ride quality about the same (or advantage to the contis) . . . and thus I’m going back to tubulars.
Especially since the sealant provides a margin of protection against the most typical sorts of punctures.
Yup
I don’t get this line of criticism from the pro-clincher folks. I’ve flatted once since I moved to tubulars late last year, and I was back on the road in less than 10 minutes (which included swapping out valve extenders since I ride deep-rim wheels). I used to take much longer, and be much more pissed off, when I had to change clincher tubes.
I also carry sealant around, but that one flat was from falling in a big road gash and tearing up the tire’s sidewall.
My spare is a sprinter’s tire, which rolls up almost as tight as a clincher tube. I’ve obviously got to head straight home, careful on turns and whatnot, but it worked beautifully my one time. When I start doing centuries later this year I’ll carry a more sturdy spare, but for training, the thin spare is cool.
by kos on Apr 1, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
I guess 90% of my punctures are from glass and other crap lying around in the road.
So although I would eliminate pinch flats, I would still be getting a lot of punctures if I was running tubs.
I don’t fancy mucking about with glue at the side of the road.
What kind of Sealant for tubies? Stans?
by Peter Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
I've been on more than a few group rides
where someone flats, removes their tire, runs their finger through the inside of the tread to feel for the glass or whatever caused the flat, and found nothing. Then a few minutes later gets another flat, after wasting a new tube and a co2 cartridge. I must say on the road it doesn’t happen to me very often (knock knock), but i had a hell of a time on the MTB this year with thorns. Slow leaks but man those thorn heads hide in those knobbies pretty well.
by Peter Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions
no road flats for
something approaching 4 years (so, between 15-20k miles), and then I had a series of flats that happened exactly like that. Something like five before I finally did a microscopic inspection under a bright light at home to fine a tiny tiny piece of wire that was the culprit. Very annoying.
4 years w/o a flat?
It wasn’t a wire. It was karma.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
for real
I never mentioned it during the four year run, sure that I would be inviting disaster. Instead, it was Baltimore that caught me.
Baltimore!
Damn him! He looks like a rouleur…
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Tire karma
My favorite story. Got rerouted from my 50 mile route at mile 42… by the Blue Angels, whose presence over Lake Washington closed the bridge back to Seattle. Shortest way home was another 35 miles, or thereabouts. I accepted my fate, started really losing it at about mile 75, when I heard a clicking sound. Pulled over… and there’s a carpet tack skewering my tubular. I pulled it out, expecting the worst, but nothing ever happened. It’s like the Magic Bullet: pierced the outer shell, took a right turn (missing the inner tube) and exited. That’s how close I came to giving up the sport.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Note to self
figure out sealant. Restore half-dozen tubulars hanging in closet with minor leaks. Never buy tubie for commuter wheels again, or at least not for a couple years.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 7:46 PM EDT reply actions
Essential check:
the presta valve must have a removable core. Otherwise, you’se probably s.o.l. (Unless you want to send them to my team-mate’s dad, who fixes sew-ups as sort of a hobby. But then again, he might only fix flats for his kids).
[He’s also mentioned in Fred Matheny’s beginning bike racing as an example of why you don’t really need special equipment to win time trials—since the guy won the national master’s 45+ tt sometime in the 80s wearing tennis shoes, on a commuter bike, with a multiply patched front tire.]
I digress. Once you get the valve core out, it’s easy: shake up the sealant and squirt it down the valve stem. Replace core, inflate and hope for the best.
Well
They are pretty much all Conti Sprinters from the last five years.
Failing that, I would be glad to send them to your friend’s dad, even if I never see them again. Better on someone’s bike than whatever the disposal option is.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I purposely bought
Conti sprinters because of the removable core (ok the price was good too).
I like the idea of being able to fix flats while leaving the wheels on…
by Peter Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 8:33 PM EDT reply actions

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