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Driedaagse de Panne Stage 1 Post-Race Thread

Um, what the hell has gotten into Pippo? Sounds like I missed a fine race, dagnammit.

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Willems interview...

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 10:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What time did this race start??

I can’t believe I missed it. Ah well. Tour of Flanders, 3.50am…

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

830 est

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Following up on Chris's question in the previous thread

do they go up the Koppenberg in any of the races from Het Nieuwsblad on prior to RvV?

by Le Comte on Mar 31, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Willems won a baby!

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Chris

You should know better!
Wake up with the PdC
and gutter Belgian TV

by MavicMoto on Mar 31, 2009 10:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 31, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big question is

Will pozzato ride the Time Trial thursday???

by Lopex on Mar 31, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Finetto came in fifth

Promising young lad. And he can time trial.

by Lopex on Mar 31, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just showed reply of \o/

being \o/ while Willems rides away from him. Pitiful. No wonder he was so cheap.

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

replay*

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

Martin on CTV “quit moaning \o/ and watch the race”

by Bruce Suomi on Mar 31, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tommeke

Alarm bells? What is the consensus?

by samboo on Mar 31, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The sun shined in his eyes

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Mar 31, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hard to say

may not have shown his cards today ?

by MavicMoto on Mar 31, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

you KNOW he’s focused on Sunday.

CQRanking.com, you complete me.

by Chris... on Mar 31, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s all he’s talked about for what?
4 months?

by Ryan_Liles on Mar 31, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but... and it's a BIG BUT

No rider has ever been able to flip a switch, focus and win. Not Merckx, not Coppi, not Armstrong, not Boonen. Boonen in fact just gave us a great demonstration of that in MSR where he couldn’t even keep up with Cavendish on the little climbs there, much less seriously compete for the bunch sprint win. And that was with him also saying all winter that MSR was one of his top goals this year.

I have seen precious little evidence that Boonen this year has that edge that he’s had in years past to take a race at the end and make it his, not when others are doing the same. I’m not saying he can;t win either Flanders or Roubaix because among other things he has a great team behind him and that counts for a lot- plus Ballan and Cancellara are either out or not yet functioning well. But I would say, like last year- and here I disagree with Albertina- he didn’t win Flanders last year in large part he didn’t have his top form, he couldn’t turn it on, and it took using Flanders as a glorified training run that emotionally he was ready for Roubaix.

This year he looks even worse coming into Flanders than last year. He gets beaten in sprints too much these days. His competitive edge is continuing to decline year to year. Remember your Boonen cobbles post from last year Chris? To me he’s taken a further step down from his peak of several years ago now.

by ursula on Mar 31, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds rational

but my VDS hopes you are wrong.

by Teel22 on Mar 31, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I too would love to be proved wrong.

He’s not on my VDS but I would love to see the 2005-6 Boonen again, as Chris notes here.

But how often do we see a return to true greatness after a decline?

by ursula on Mar 31, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jens' reply

To a comment about Boonens’ maturity compared to VDB’s
"Deciding not to use every mindaltering drug known to man helps you keep a perspective on the world. "

Of course, that was a month (?) before his drug test came back as positive. I’m not going to be a monday morning quarterback here, just pointing out that something may have happened there that might be relevant.

No longer that I call them tights, I call them freedom ware.

by TheFigurehead on Mar 31, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree there's been a decline since 2005-06

but how big a decline are we talking about?

Since I do have Boonen on my team and because I’m a numbers geek, I’ve been tracking how each of my riders is doing vis-a-vis last year (thus far Gasparotto and Gesink are the primary culprits holding me back). And, the fact is, you could well have made this case about Boonen’s decline last year. In fact more so since, up to this point last year, Boonen had no wins (in VDS races, that is) and his only results in VDS races were a 4th place in KBK and an 8th in E3P. Thus far, he has a win, a 2nd place, and a 3rd place, plus a couple other lesser results.

I think the argument can be made he’s posed to do at least as well in the next couple weeks as last year (unless Cav can suddenly do cobbles). Of course, the same thing that happened in RvV last year could happen this year, so who knows. But Tom not pursuing a sprint for 2nd because he’s celebrating a teammate’s win is a bit different from Tom being off form.

We’ll see.

by Le Comte on Mar 31, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree to a point

There should not yet be a huge decline in Boonen’s ability. He’s still 28 (turns 29 in October) so physically he should still be in command of all the physical strength that he had 3-4 years ago.

Actually he should be stronger- and that gets to the point I am trying to make. Emotionally he’s just not as hungry and I say that is what is causing the decline in victories. His MSR prep and race was an out and out debacle- something that Boonen Apologists on this tread are conviently ignoring. He may say he wants to win a race, but his actions say otherwise. And now he’s doing the same prep for Flanders that he did for MSR. I think his result in Flander will look stronger than MSR but that will be more a function that MSR is a more wide open race- more people can win it than Flanders- than because Boonen is better prepared.

Again- he no more needs to conserve his energy now than he did 3 or 4 years ago. He no more needs to pick and choose his races than he did 3 or 4 years ago. That people are saying he does need to be more careful are not admitting that at age 28 most every athlete is at their peak in physical prowess.

Physically, on paper, Boonen can ride every other rider into he ground at Flanders and Roubaix, and if any manage to stay with him to the end, he should beat them in a sprint. Notice that is exactly what he did last year at Roubaix because he really really wanted the win because he wasn’t in the final selection at Flanders— but he didn’t at Flanders where he was more complacent, letting his teammates carry the workload, hoping against hope that his group would all get back together. It took losing at Flanders to finally wake him up.

Possibly losing E3 in a sprint to his former teammate will wake him up. If so I’d love it. But guaranteed that losing sprint of Boonen’s has alerted every serious cobbles sprinter that Boonen can be dragged to the line and still be beaten- something that hasn’t happened before. You know that Pozzato believes this. I’m sure the likes of Hushovd and Haussler believe it too. The rules have changed in cobbles races.

by ursula on Mar 31, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good assessment.

“Emotionally he’s just not as hungry” One of the reasons I left Boonen off my team this year was an interview I read somewhere last winter (and have been unable to find since) where he indicated that at least part of his problem last year was due to boredom—there just isn’t the same fire to win the same races over and over. I don’t remember why he thought this year would be different, but if I’d been utterly convinced he’s have stayed on the team.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i may be wrong,

but i would think at boonen’s age his sprinting ability should be falling off a little. True he should be stronger in all other respects, but seems to me that sort of fast-twitch strength used in sprinting is in decline by his age. Smarts, skill and endurance should be better.

by yeehoo on Apr 1, 2009 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riders have sandbagged right before big races

Most notably in the Dauphine. Floyd in ’06 was on a short-stage race tear, and everyone thought he was toast after his ride in the Dauphine. Controversial results followed, but he had clearly sandbagged that race.

Last year at Flanders, as I remember, Boonen felt he could have won and was in the chase, but didn’t want to attack his teammate. Boonen probably feels that repeating last year’s slow, low intensity build was the right move. I agree with Boonen in that regard. These “little” Belgian races are too tough to keep your form over for an extended period of time. He’s older now, knows how he peaks, and he’s controlling it.

by Softie on Mar 31, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

Not 100% sure of how hot he was in De Ronde (why didn’t he mark Flecha/Nuyens attacks?) perhaps. He did look like a man with surplus going over the Kapelmuur though.

Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.

by Jens on Mar 31, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah this would be my hunch too

I’m guessing that as he’s getting older, his mindset is to just get his miles in prior to the big week. I agree about not being able to pick your spots, but it’s one thing to go from cold/undertrained to winning, and another to have had a pretty good spring and decide to focus most of your energy on the really important races in the days that precede them. My hunch is that Boonen will be among the leaders with a chance to win all next week.

by plinytheelder on Mar 31, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strange bedfellows

Strange set of bedfellows you described there.

I get mixing Merckx and Coppi, and, at a stretch maybe Boonen given the point that you are making.

But to include Mr One-Race himself in that mix?

by muk on Mar 31, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my explanation

Merckx and Coppi are of an older generation(s) where every rider rode every race. There was very little specialization like there is now and that allows us to easily see the arc of their careers- where in hindsight they started to fade from their amazing careers.

Armstrong is of the modern age in cycling, the age of specialization, which means that one can disguise one’s decline for a couple of years. He’s probably the most visible advocate for specialization too. But even with Armstrong you see how as a youth he could compete in various races but as he aged his focus become more and more the Tour where, as he continued to age his dominance became less even though he won. His last victory was not to me nearly as resounding as earlier ones. He was getting older and had to be more careful when to attack and he had the braintrust behind him who understood that. And now, in his comeback, his physical gifts are further eroded.

Boonen should be at the height of his physical prowess right now. But it’s undeniable that his wins are coming less frequent than 3-4 years before. So I can only conclude that something is fragile emotionally/mentally and that he no longer has the confidence that he should have. That he needed cocaine, a drug that give the user a wonderful feeling of physical strength and confidence, is a clue to me that all is not well in his head. I mean he should be getting that rush from winning races…

by ursula on Mar 31, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree Ursula.

This generation of cyclist are more specialized. I have read and watched a lot of Boonen interviews. And he has said he has 2 main goals Flanders and Roubaix, TdF. His DS, Peeters has said they want him to try new goals like Amstel but so far Boonen is not open to that. Boonen has also said he will be going more for “quality” over “quantity” and will never be an Erik Zabel. Boonen has also said he will not be going for a lot of sprints this year either.

Eddy Merckx was quoted as saying (from April’s Cycle Sport) “Tom needs new challenges to stay motivated.”

I don’t think Tom would push it on this race because of the risk of injury. This is suppose to be a dangerous race. Maybe just an excuse?

by cyclingdiva on Mar 31, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did seem to flex his muscles a little today

And then pack it up at the end. So maybe he is being more selective.

So here’s a challenge. If you are Boonen do you look to win the same races again and again, seriously who would bet against an in form Boonen in PR or Flanders?; or do you set yourself a goal like winning each of the classics, something that he might be capable of doing.

Which would history view more favourably, a combined 8-10 Paris-Roubaix/Flanders wins, or winning every one of the one day classics?

by muk on Apr 1, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When I first read your last sentence I nodded in agreement…then I said: wait a minute, 8-10 P-R/Flanders wins? Has anyone ever done that?

by plinytheelder on Apr 1, 2009 2:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

Johan Museeuw is the absolute record holder with 6 (3 each).

by tedvdw on Apr 1, 2009 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

I think I’d take the 8-10 P-R/RVV!

OK, I’d take getting up one of those climbs or finishing one stretch of cobbles within shouting distance of…er…

by plinytheelder on Apr 1, 2009 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Training race?

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it looks good

But I want to be wrong.
When I tuned in to the race this morning there was about 65K to go and Boonen was already in the 3rd group. I missed the decisive move that forced the split. What I did see though was first Pozzato and then Willems, 1st and 2nd on the day, bridge to the front group on their own while VanImpe and Boonen were unable to do anything. I, and my VDS squad, hope Tommeke thought KVI was stronger than he actually was and chose not to try to jump across on his own.

by australopithecine on Mar 31, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What the heck is that???

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 10:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is Boonen saying?

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 10:56 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

uuh already forgot

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Mar 31, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Barlo guy gets a red jersey.

That’s going to stand out.

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Mountain

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Mar 31, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it just me or is there something wrong with using the word *mountain* to describe anything...

…in a race in Belgium.

Not that there aren’t very bloody steep hills. But mountains?

by Ed K on Mar 31, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes there is !

Its a steep hill damn it! if its not at least 2000 feet of elevation gain you can’t call it a mtn.

Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland

by natbla on Mar 31, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They have a KOM -jersey at the T o Denmark too

and their highest climb is the Mount Everest-replica at Legoland.

Did your favourite rider just win Montepaschi Strade Bianch Eroica Toscana? OK then.

by Jens on Mar 31, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Top 10 from CN

1 Filippo Pozzato (Ita) Katusha
2 Frederik Willems (Bel) Liquigas
3 Greg Van Avermaet (Bel) Silence-Lotto 0.57
4 Borut Bozic (Slo) Vacansoleil
5 Grega Bole (Slo) Amica Chips-Knauf
6 Martyn Maaskant (Ned) Garmin-Slipstream
7 Assan Bazayev (Kaz) Astana
8 Vincent Jérôme (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom
9 Mauro Finetto (Ita) CSF Group-Navigare
10 Steve Chainel (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom

Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland

by natbla on Mar 31, 2009 11:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

VDS points

150-125-100-80-60; 50-40-30

1 Filippo Pozzato -150
2 Frederik Willems -125
3 Greg Van Avermaet -100
4 Borut Bozic -80
5 Grega Bole -60
6 Martyn Maaskant -50
7 Assan Bazayev -40
8 Vincent Jérôme -30
9 Mauro Finetto -20
10 Steve Chainel -10

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

Pippo 40
[Willems 20—no one has him]
GVA 10

One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR

by majope on Mar 31, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, it's only a stage

so only top 3 get any points.

by Le Comte on Mar 31, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

You can entice him by spelling his name right?

Martijn Maaskant it is.

by Lopex on Mar 31, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh. I've seen so many variations I don't know which is right either...

…but I shall trust your Netherlandish authority on this.

by Ed K on Mar 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The y and ij

often seem interchangeable in Flemish names and everything Old-Dutch, but in modern Dutch they’re quite different.

But wait, there’s more!

by tedvdw on Mar 31, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Telephone directories as well as the Yellow Pages in the Netherlands (but not those in Belgium) sort ij and y together, as if they are the same, between x and z. Thanks to this, surnames like Bruijn and Bruyn which sound and even (to some extent) look the same can be found in the same spot. (Bruin, however, though it sounds similar, is placed with “Brui-” and not “Bruy-”.)

That made my head hurt!

Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..

by Frinking on Mar 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When confused...

The team site is always a good place to go. Martijn Maaskant.

"The most wasted day is that in which we have not laughed."

by nikki on Mar 31, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My Bad... for got it was a stage race

Please ignore my previous post :- )

"…I saw bloody Cavendish coming, really fast…"
HH

by ELVISGOAT on Mar 31, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like Maaskant is comming into form on schedule

I think he is primed to bust out at PR.
I just hope he has a team to help him.

by Ryan_Liles on Mar 31, 2009 11:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That scares the hell out of me

I hope they’ve all been sandbagging a bit… Martijn looked good today, but the rest of the GarMen weren’t so hot.

by BDBrian on Mar 31, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not too confident in the Garmin cobbles team

They really haven’t been anywhere in Belgium all season. Losing Farrar is a big blow, and I don’t think Meatball and Svein are going to be much help. Cozza is really the only one I see being able to help out.

by PopUp Rolen on Mar 31, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Hoping

That Pippo will be satisfied with the stage and use the rest of the race for sharpening his knives for sunday.
On the other hand, when the form is on fire, and your palmares have been a bit sparse over the past couple of years, you have to seize the opportunity when it comes along.
No matter what, I am floating on cloud 9 after saturday and today.

Flahutes: Harden the F--k Up!

by bobgade on Mar 31, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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