CONI: Two Years for Valverde!
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 10:25 AM EDT
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PrintThe Italian Olympic Committee, which oversees cycling generally and enforces doping laws, has asked the anti doping court to suspend Spanish star Alejandro Valverde for two years. As strange as it seems for Italy to suspend a Spaniard, the intent is not merely to ban Valverde from Italian racing, but to have the ban extended worldwide by the UCI. No real news as to the underlying charges: CONI have simply used DNA evidence from the Operacion Puerto bloodbags to connect to Valverde. Presumably those coded bags contained EPO as well. Expect a ruling before the Tour de France.
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My guess this will function as a test case.
I remember something about a couple others who were targeted at the TDF in Italy last year. I expect we’ll see a couple more of these coming soon.
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
Agreed
This is going to be a long protracted process, the DNA evidence will need to be examined by counter-experts, blah blah blah. The verification of the results alone could take months…and you’re right why only Valverde?
by bradBordeaux on Apr 1, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
"why only Valverde?"
I agree.
Valverde was always ready to lawyer up, as opposed to Tyler Hmailton, who offered his blood so comparisons could be made.
Hmmmmm.
Racing for Victory and Free Beer!
That's an odd way of twisting our comments
There are many other names than Valve’s in rotation, and if they aren’t put under the same level of scrutiny it can very well end up smelling of under the table deals.
If his sample is open for DNA testing then the same should oblige for other riders like Fränk(let’s hope he keeps his word) and Bert.
Heck I’d even go so far and agree with Jens Voigt, who said they should compare the blood of all active riders and automatically ban those who do not want to provide samples.
Making an example out of one rider while letting the rest go won’t clean up the sport. And like peeing in one’s pants to get warm, it will only satisfy the press for a little while.
Did Jens said that?!
Gonna be ‘rude’ now so Jens fans…..
Wuahahahahaha the hypocrite!
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
Are you saying that all my relatives are shady?
because I would take some offense to that.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
Were they coaches for women's olympic events?
There’s a pretty well-disclosed and long history of incredibly extreme doping (and non-optional / non-disclosed for the athletes) in multiple sports in E. Germany and the rest of the Eastern block. I assume that’s what motivates the comment. I don’t get the sense that the athletes (or in many cases, even the coaches) made that decision in a free or informed way, so this isn’t to pass some odd sort of moral judgement on the entire population.
Yeah he is..
Thei was a doper who clearly stated his name as one of the dopers…. The German guy…
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
Jackshce
Jörg Jacksche named Voigt at one point, though I’m forgetting now exactly what he said. Someting along the lines of he did what everyone else did, I believe.
He said something like:
The dope hunters were in our tail.. So I went to Voigt to ask what to do. He responded: “Bury it until they are gone”
My interpetation.. Not the official thing..
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
Yes, it's like one of those "based on a true story" Hollywood flicks :)
That year saw the Festina scandal unfold. Jaksche said that when he talked to Jens Voigt, the rider said that someone from his team suggested to bury all the stuff along the race route and pick it up after the Tour. While Voigt does not remember details of the conversation he agrees that “we talked about doping all the time back then,” and thinks it’s possible he joked about something like that.
And it’s made even more absurd considering Voigt rode for Crédit Agricole back then.
It would make more sense had Jörg actually seen Jens dope or promoting it while they rode on the same team, instead of what sounds like a joke from 1998.
But being born in East Germany automatically makes him a doper and hypocrite, just like everyone born in America is obese and ignorant to the surrounding world.
Believe it or not..
But I don’t think Jaksche only put out his name if their is nothing going on..
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
Really?
Because I can totally see why someone who’s just gotten convicted of doping would want to point to exactly someone like Voigt (widely seen as clean) and say “he did it too” in order to minimize his own offense. That’s actually a pretty time honored playground rhetorical strategy. Sans any other evidence I’d more or less dismiss this as sour-grapes ‘I got caught’ diversionary tactics.
Don't know the truth behind this
While I applaud Bella Jorg for speaking out , he also has a bitter side of his personality. There has been a lot of talk about a falling out between Jaksche and Jens!, also the “digging down”-story always sounded more like a deadpan Jens! -joke than a serious discussion of a problem to me. Seems that after being teammates on CSC, if he had something solid on Jens!, he should have reavealed that if he wanted to expose him as a hypocrite, no?
I’m not saying Jens! has never doped but this JJ quote is pretty weak “evidence”.
But why so vague
when Jaksche had no problems going into more details with other people?
The problem isn’t only the integrity of Voigt, the story basically accuses Roger Legeay’s team Crédit Agricole of organized use and disposal of doping back in 1998.
That would be a rather big blow to the sport. Vague accusations is just as dangerous to the sport as doping, because we can always link names and nationalities.
"Peeing in ones pants to get warm..."
LOVE IT!!!!
Done that, in a cold downpour
All is wet through-and-through anyway, so even if it’s momentary, it does indeed feel nice and warm … Sorry!
I probably can't win this argument
but my pee would not have smelled because I had topped up on fluids before the race like a good little boy (Manneken Pis?). Also, the continuous freezing rain diluted everything well enough. Also, racing doesn’t leave much room for some subtle smelling duties :)
Tell that to Spain
Sevilla – was caught on Video entering Fuentes’ office
Gutierrez – the infamous “Bufalo”
Mancebo – retired when his name came up
These guys were banished to some extent, certainly from the Pro Tour, and haven’t put themselves in the position Valverde has. This whole Puerto asymmetry stems from the Spanish sports authorities’ unwillingness or inablility to pursue the matter. We know there is a huge amount of documentation on Fuentes’ operation that is still in limbo. But Valverde’s involvement, like the guys above and some who have been sanctioned, was obvious. Especially after the lifestyle piece that mentioned his dog’s name was noticed. The involvement of Contador and LL Sanchez seems to be a bit more opaque in the documents that were passed to the UCI in 2006 and have worked their way into the public sphere.
I like everyone else know this(the Saxo Bank forum got all this covered) :)
My problem is simply that it does not seem fair that the next just as guilty doper can take over when Valverde is caught. Not when he seems to have become a clean rider(either that or more riders, those who are beating him, are injecting).
My hope is that the UCI won’t dwell on this but instead put even more pressure on the Spanish court, because as said it’s neither fair to Valverde or the fans of the sport if it stops here.
Anyone else think Valverde is not riding the Tour this year?
Luis Snachez better prepare himself, because I have a feeling that the organizers of the Tour will bar Valverde from starting in July. For his sake, he’s probably better off coming clean and serving his time because this storm isn’t blowing over.
Lulu
He’s scheduled to be the Cd’E race leader at Pais Vasco. It will be most interesting to see him against a much tougher field than Paris-Nice, a field of Grand Tour GC hopefuls that are on form.
speaking of Lulu:
http://fotos.miarroba.com/fotos/2/3/23667f1c.jpg
looks like he is in the same boat with Bert, nothing or same as JJ
I'm looking at that page, and seeing all the other initials, but not his.
Would that be LL or LLS or LS?
I see R.H, M.S., J.B, I.G., A.V., J.J., A.D., A.C., but unless you’re dyslexic, JJ is not LL.
It's above AC, below AD
It says “LL”. It’s pretty impossible to read in that picture, but the caption of the photo mentions it so I’m assuming it was more legible in real life (as opposed to a scan of a newspaper photo of a copy of the doc).
Truthfully, I don't feel too bad for Valverde
If he’s guilty, he deserves to be punished. My sympathy for cyclists that have been caught cheating ended after the Festina scandal, from that point onward everyone was aware that the sports livelihood was at stake in the fight against doping. And these folks, the Basso’s and Valverde’s of the world, selfishly took it upon themselves to give the sport one black eye after another. If this doesn’t change pretty soon no one will take the sport seriously.
The numbers suggest that
nobody, percentage-wise, takes it very seriously as it is even now. Not even in Europe. Hence, the sponsorship problems. We forget that we are fanatics. The rest of the world doesn’t see cycling the same way we do here.
"....Up Sestriere on a rental clunker in jeans and loafers? Brother, lemme buy you a beer."
by Rolls on Apr 1, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
True
But at the very least it would be nice to get back to the pre-Festina days when newspapers would dedicate a page or two to the actual racing going on instead of focusing the majority of their stories on the latest drug scandal. I mean, people that I know that don’t even care for cycling have heard about Floyd Landis and Tyler Hamilton, and not because of their accomplishments on the bike. That’s needs to change. Personally speaking I’d prefer that the sport go under the radar than have to put up with all this negative media coverage year after year.
The big question for me
is whether his team sideline him until this is settled? Isn’t that typically the protocol?
"Never swing a small stick. " Andy Hampsten
Just guessing
But I would speculate that in the case of Valverde probably not. If it was a lesser rider I would imagine that he might be fired on the spot. Valverde, however, is pretty much the biggest star in Spanish cycling outside of Contador and the team management is probably not going to abandon the guy after all the results he’s brought them. However, based on past precendent with Richard Virenque, Sergei Gonchar, Astana, Fuji I would imagine that the Tour organizers are not looking too favorably upon Valverde situtation and may bar him, if not the entire team, from starting in July.
I know we've discussed this before
and most people seem to think there is an abundance of evidence (and there is), but there still seems to be some missing link. They have a bag of blood from OP, and they can match it to Valverde’s blood from races in Italy. Is there anything that proves he had doped during the time he was riding in Italy?
I have no doubt that he was planning to dope (and maybe had). And if he were planning to do so, then Spain could suspend him just as Italy suspended Basso. But is there any proof that he had actually doped during any of the Italian races?
I can’t really be angry, because I don’t see why he should be treated differently from Basso/Ullrich, but I am uncomfortable about Italy taking the actions unless there is proof that he had actually done something against the rules in Italy.
I agree with you and I've said this several times.
I have no desire to condone what I’m sure he’s done, no matter how much I like him as a rider etc etc, but how can they prove an offense was committed on Italian soil? I can’t believe that this would hold up in a court of law.
In the Italian, as well as Spanish courts . . .
. . . . you are guilty until you prove your innocence and there is no habes corpus.
Things can linger in the courts far longer the the prime racing years a rider might have.
There is also documentary evidence
Torri said documents found in the raid also link Valverde to the doctor, Eufemiano Fuentes. The documents indicate what the rider paid and what substances he used, the prosecutor said.
—link
As long as some of the paperwork is dated, CONI can compare it to the dates Valverde raced in Italy during those years—and I’m guessing they have, or wouldn’t be so sure about their jurisdiction. The smoking gun was the DNA proving Valv.piti/#18 was Valverde. Once they had that, they could show that the documents using the same code names also related to him.
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
Makes sense
Surely Torri wouldn’t be so stupid as to pursue a case over which he can’t claim jurisdiction.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I see what you mean.
I hadn’t thought of that…. Is it an offence to be in Italy with drugs/doped blood inside you though, or is it only illegal if you inject it within their borders? I really have no idea but then I haven’t been reading every detail of this saga; it gets a little wearisome!
From what I remember, competing doped is the offense.
Makes it the commission of sporting fraud.
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
Only in Italy, right?
I don’t think ‘sporting fraud’ exists as a criminal offence anywhere else. Other states prosecute dopers for trafficking or using illegally obtained (ie. non-prescribed) drugs.
France
The French have a sporting fraud law, and I believe the Germans recently passed one.
But you’re right, it’s more typical for them to apply the trafficking and use laws to prosecute doping on the criminal side. There is a criminal case against Valverde in Italy also working its way through the process. Still in a preliminary stage. It is for use of controlled substances, as I recall. Heh, is it a bad thing that I can’t remember my own posts?
Basso aso didn;t dope
But had his 2 year ban.. So it doesn’t really matter.. IF at least they punnish for 2 years
Crashdan: "Veni Vidi Vici beats Wing Kong Exchange... … and I’ll change my signature to a backwards smile for a month."
Franzoi wins Parijs-Roubaix and I win a date with the VDS of Team Txirrindulariak..
I wouldn't have an issue
with Spanish Federation going after Valverde for “attempted doping”, but I would have an issue with other Federations reaching across borders for things that didn’t happen on their soil because it just opens the door for all sorts of issues that could be problematic.
But if there is reasonable documentary evidence to prove that Valv/Piti actually took substances or was blood doping while he was in Italy, I do feel better about the jurisdictional issues.
Boooo!
Another Machiavellian scheme from the bureaucratic anti-doping mafia, who only seem to go after poor federations and unorganised sportsmen. Where are the footballers and tennis players?! Very opaque proceedings in general and this investigation in particular.
I see it similarly, but different.
the cyclists go unpunished for quite a while, as they figure out how to get around exposing the footballers. So, yeah, it’s a crock that they don’t go after the footballers. But in the meantime, they provide a large, shady umbrella for everyone else (to the detriment of all).
As I mentioned somewhere else,
AV surely can’t ride the Tour now even if the ban only covers Italy (notwithstanding lengthy appeals etc..), as the Tour visits Italy.
Well
He could drop out before they cross the border. What stage goes to Italia?
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Or
He can ride it really, really fast. Road Runner fast. Beep Beep!
No longer that I call them tights, I call them freedom ware.
by TheFigurehead on Apr 1, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Errr, the one with the Petit/Grand Bernards in it.
Something like 15 I think? I should know really because I’m going to it!
That's awesome
are you also going to Ventoux?
if you are in the 'hood
try to have lunch on the terrace at Les Florets in Gigondas.
Viva la Lactique
Oh
He should drop out anyway, he’ll get crushed there.
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The Grand Bernard runs between France and Italy
had an interesting run in with the Duane there…
agree with comment upstream
going after Valverde is both necessary and mean-spirited.
Necessary because going after him (and hopefully nailing him) will begin to allow authorities to isolate the entire system that protected him. (And I find myself agreeing with Pevenage—there’s a lot more than just Puerto going on here, and a lot more than just cyclists involved.)
Mean-spirited because don’t think for a minute that the Italians would go to such lengths to bring balding-verde down if they weren’t pissed about sidelining Basso only to find the Spanish government blocking investigations to shield their riders.
I’m losing patience with the notion that we should stop paying attention and just go back to covering the “sporting” dimension. Sure, a really complicated discussion of where the boundaries should be drawn between therapeutic and performance-enhancing interventions. And, culturally, we need to do that. Thus, I don’t think you can unring the bell.
And if it turns out that most all professional sport of the 20th century has been the product of pharmacological practices of one sort or another, we need to know that—or, at least, I think I do—because I have formed notions of “human potential and grandeur” (I’m thinking of those ridiculous tag-lines that went along with The WIde World of Sports back in the US day) that need an * along-side them. This really is a big deal, because professional sport is one of the transcendent mythic cults of our time.
by R Mc on Apr 1, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said
as always
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yes he is
in a cute sorta George Costanza way . . .
and I was punning on that “Balaverde” thing that he has on his saddle . . .
Your last paragraph is essential...
…and connects this issue to some other social issues that have typically gotten a lot more play in Women’s Studies (physically unrealistic ideals of beauty, etc., and their psychological effects on the rest of us) but which are, in fact, also becoming more and more widespread among men (various forms of body dismorphia and disphoria). To a very real extent, its important for us to get a sense of what is reasonably possible under what circumstances… then if we wanna have the all drug olympics, fine, as long as we’re clear that’s what it is.
Yep. That's connected...
The stuff I’m thinking about is the work that’s being done on the social effects of the rise of publications like “men’s health” and stuff. Basically, the women’s studies people are miles out in front of everyone else on these issues, and some of them, most notably Susan Bordo, have started to point out that men are very much being subjected to a similar treatment to the one that women have been getting for decades now. I saw her give a fascinating talk about this at Penn a couple years ago, and your post connects the doping thing to that whole range of concerns in a way I hadn’t thought of.
Si...
Men are definitely under more explicit pressures in that respect. Look no further than the widespread use of steroids by non-athletes to have the “buffed look”.
"widespread use of steroids by non-athletes to have the "buffed look"."
I belive those people are what you would call “tools”
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
Maybe
But there are a shit ton of them. And that’s not even mentioning the 50+ dudes reaching for the T and the growth hormone.
Well there are a shit ton of "tools" out there
look at muscle builders for instance, talk about giant d-bags(most of them, I don’t want to speak for all of them), and no those guys aren’t athletes.
"It’s disappointing. Second place is the first loser."
~Heinrich Haussler (GERMANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) Cervélo TestTeam
do it at 25, maybe you're a tool. 45, mid-life crisis sufferer, and probable tool.
But the 15 year olds? Eh, boy or girl, it stinks to be told that no one will want to bed you, ever, if you’re not shaped, shaved, buff and pneumatically enhanced.
Exactly!
Remember Phil, a lot of this is all about people who stand to make money off these people exploiting them at moments of psychological weakness. It’s really easy to blame the victim of that kind of shit, but not necessarily so helpful when it has the net effect of excusing the ones who are really exploiting others.
Thank you for this nice essay on sport.
Here is a fun roll for you – an article about PEDs by baseball writer, Will Carroll.
by thisisntthezodiac on Apr 1, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions
puerto...
Has started to seem like a witch hunt more than anything else. I wish they would just move on and hand out the bans as they happen, I dont think these bans are really doing anything to clean up the sport and I feel the effort should be placed on testing and creating blood profiles for what happens now.
It also seems a little silly that CONI gave Ricardo Ricco a ban that will be up next March, and he actually tested positive, while Valverde, the spaniard, has not.
The way I see it
it depends on how one understands the phrase “tested positive.”
Has Valverde produced a non-negative result in a doping test administered either in- or out-of-competition?
Nope. [insert awareness of loopholes large enough to herd camels through here.]
Ok. Now, is it possible to argue that there is evidence plausibly suggesting that Valverde had to have used non-sanctioned medical practices at, or in preparation for, specified races? (I.e. can a case be built to charge him with what is referred to as a “non-analytical positive”?)
Yes, it can, and that’s what CONI has done.
If the fundamental goal is to clean up the sport, part of that process has to involve ridding the sport of those who enable corrupt practices: Valverde is really a pawn for the system that’s covering up his involvement.
I like how you break the two cases out
My take on it is this -
If we nail you because of testing and you cooperate then good on you and you can get off a little eaisier
If we have to spend tons of man hours building a case to nail you then your going to get the book thrown at you with out mercy.
The former applies to Khol, Ricco (sort of), and a couple others. The latter to VV, and others to be named later.
Just spinning the pedals in the hills of Western Maryland
Prosecutorial discretion 101
CQRanking.com, you complete me.
by Chris Fontecchio on Apr 1, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
in related news...
how about this
10-year ban
for Geneviève Jeanson and lifetime bans for former coach and doctor?
ooops
meant to link rather than block…here it is.
by plinytheelder on Apr 1, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Lifetime ban for the coach and doctor?
Considering she was sixteen when they got her to start doping, they should have bits of them cut off and fed to rabid cats. Interesting bits.
One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs. .--Mark Cavendish, MSR
On to TAS we go.
Interesting to see how TAS rules on this one, as no doubt it is headed there.
The Stevič decision has not been released, but it may give us an idea of how the Valverde case will go. Based on evidence acquired from criminal authorities, CONI threw down a lifetime ban on Stevič, who raced in Italy at the time of the offenses but carried a foreign license. Stevič is accused of dealing, which is a different thing than use, natch. But the case does involve the same sort of question of jurisdiction that some have raised about the Valverde case.
I tend to think CONI has this one nailed, but strange things happen when all those lawyers get to lawyering.
For his part, Valverde is “indignant” and has never done anything wrong.
Well, we're all a little 'indignant' aren't we...
I get the impression that Valverde is simply stating, via his lawyer, what many of you have been saying above. “Why only me?”, “If I was Italian, blah, blah, blah?” Valverde inspires me…but I tend to believe that what is good for the goose is good for the gander…and if Valverde goes down, there are going to be a lot of riders that are going to fall in his wake…the Spanish counterpart of CONI will be sure of it. Cleaning up cycling should aim at honest sport, creating an atmosphere of ethical competition…not retribution, which is what we’re going to see… sad really.
Well, I'm not sure I'm all that indignant
If CONI has the evidence and can make it stick, more power to them. But TAS will be the one to decide.
I highly highly doubt that if TAS upholds this suspension, that CONI is going to stop with Valverde. There are others on Torri’s list for sure.
It’s interesting to see how TAS resolves this actually. I’ll probably put a follow-up post up in a bit with some more blah blah.
Edwin Moses on Dwain Chambers
This has been playing out for quite a while… busted, cheater, sprinter, confessor, Dwain Chambers attempting to come back:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/athletics/article6018381.ece
No love for the old warhorses in Germany
Klöden and Ullrich might lose their olympic medals as a result of the investigations into the Freiburg-clinic according to Radsport-News
Aber Herr Klöden? I thought you were as clean as the undriven snow? Mind you, they are only saying this might happen if the investigation reveals that they did indeed use Drs Lothar and Heinrich’s help to dope. I suspect though that the german olympic comittee have some indication or they wouldn’t make these kinds of statement.
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